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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Hernandez Wants Patriots Medical Records; Call Girl Charged in Death of Google Exec; Rented Home Was Allegedly Torture Chamber and Murder Scene; Sterling Continues Clippers Fight; Man Offers Pot to Obama

Aired July 09, 2014 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Lawyers for Aaron Hernandez are going after his former NFL team today. The one-time New England Patriots superstar tight end is charged with three murders.

Today, his second court appearance of the week, we're told that his defense team now wants the Patriots to hand over his medical and psychological records. Interesting.

With me here is CNN's Susan Candiotti who's been following the case very closely, since day one, I might add.

Joining me as well is trial attorney James Zirin, who's also the former U.S. attorney, assistant U.S. attorney in the southern district in New York, also the author of this fantastic book, "The Mother Court, A Collection of Cases From the Southern District of New York."

And also with me, again, criminal defense attorney Eric Guster.

All three of you at the table, and I begin with you, Ms. Candiotti, what on Earth can they possibly want with the medical and psychological records from his football days?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think we can agree it would contain, possibly, a treasure trove of information to find out whether he was treated for any kind of medical condition, looking at CT scans, MRIs.

Was he ever -- did he ever suffer a brain injury? What about the results of drug testing for him? And then, of course, psychological tests that were done on him as well.

Now, as I'm sure these gentleman may agree, that could indicate that the defense might be contemplating a diminished capacity defense, all depends what they find in these records.

BANFIELD: So I understand that it's never -- it's a touchy subject whenever you're dealing with medical records, certainly when you're dealing with a private organization and medical records as well. Throws a bit of a wrench into things.

But as a U.S. attorney in the past, can't you just compel that stuff? I mean, this is a murder case after all, Jim.

JAMES ZIRIN, 30-YEAR-TRIAL ATTORNEY: I think it's relevant, and certainly the medical records wouldn't be privileged in the hands of the New England Patriots. And I think they're entitled to it, to be able to establish his defense.

After all, he owns the privilege, and he wants the records so that he can --

BALDWIN: They belong to him, don't they?

ZIRIN: That's right.

BANFIELD: And it's kind of weird in the sense that this is a corporation as well. But it is -- I mean, aside from all of that, you would think that a prosecutor has every right to compel those medical records for this case.

CANDIOTTI: Actually, it's the defense.

BANFIELD: The defense has every right to compel that they be produced.

ZIRIN: Although the prosecutor can also call its own experts to rebut the defense of diminished capacity, so then it becomes a war of competing psychiatrists.

BANFIELD: Before we get to the war, which is typically how that always plays out in court, Eric, talk to me about this notion of diminished capacity, what you actually have to present in court, how you have to frame the argument, and why a couple of knock, to the head might actually play in his favor.

ERIC GUSTER, CRIMINAL AND CIVIL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Diminished capacity is to show that this man did not have the mental ability to form the decision to commit this murder, or he did not appreciate the severity of his actions.

And, in this case, especially with the Patriots being subpoenaed, there are so many lawsuits involved in concussions, and these concussions can lead to diminished capacity because those are literally hits to their brains.

And that's why it's important to get their experts to review these records, get their experts to review these records, and see if that expert can testify this man, at the time of the murders, actually did not have mental ability to make this decision.

BANFIELD: See, that leap is where I'm having trouble. And I get it, but it ends up being a war of the experts. But let's just say he took a few knocks.

But to get from that, even if he had a concussion, Jim, to get from that to a diminished capacity, or to proof positive that he had diminished capacity, ultimately what does that do?

That does not get him off Scot free. It's not a legal insanity. ZIRIN: It doesn't. That's right. You've distinguished it quite

correctly. There's a difference between not guilty by reason of insanity and diminished capacity.

Diminished capacity, I suppose, is just a little touch of insanity.

BANFIELD: But what does it do to you in terms of the charges?

ZIRIN: Reduces the charge.

BANFIELD: Reduces the charge, and, ultimately, the sentencing guidelines are reduced right along with that.

ZIRIN: That's correct. And so --

BANFIELD: By how much?

ZIRIN: Diminished capacity is something that's not favored in the law. It's not even favored in Massachusetts. They ran it in the famous Harvey Milk case in California.

BANFIELD: Successfully.

ZIRIN: Which is the Twinkies defense.

BANFIELD: Successfully.

ZIRIN: And -- successfully. And then got a manslaughter verdict because they claimed he was depressed and that the fact that he ate Twinkies was an indication of his depression.

It was popularly thought that the defense was he committed because he ate too many Twinkies --

(CROSSTALK)

ZIRIN: So, lawyers -- first of all, lawyers treat all psychiatric testimony quite skeptically and they treat the diminished capacity defense quite skeptically because it --

BANFIELD: I have to cut it there. I could go on for hours, and we will, because this case is ongoing. And, by the way, there are three murders, so there is a ripe field for discussion in this particular case.

ZIRIN: Yes.

BANFIELD: Susan Candiotti, as always, thank you. James Zirin, better known as Jim for the purposes of this discussion, thank you for being here. And, Eric Guster --

ZIRIN: For all purposes.

BANFIELD: Nice to have you all, thank you.

GUSTER: Thank you. BANFIELD: We are following a couple of other stories, a particular one of sex, drugs and prostitution aboard a California yacht. Yes, you heard right.

The picture may not say it all, though. When the smoke cleared, a high-end hooker reportedly is charged with second-degree murder.

Next, a live report on the charges and why video plays in big in this case.

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BANFIELD: It started with a call girl, a million dollar yacht, and some heroin. It did not end well. A wealthy Silicon Valley executive is now dead and police have charged this 26-year-old prostitute with second-degree murder.

They say she injected heroin into 51-year-old Forrest Hayes and then left him as he passed out and later died aboard that yacht.

Police say surveillance video -- yes, there was video -- shows her cleaning up the scene, ultimately stepping over his body to finish a glass of wine and then closing the blinds so that the scene wasn't visible.

CNN's Dan Simon is in San Francisco. That is quite a set of facts. We say in the business, those are bad facts. What else are the police saying happened that night, Dan?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of intrigue with this one, especially in terms of who we're talking about and the unseemly nature of it all.

According to Santa Cruz police, we're talking about a 26-year-old high-priced prostitute and the victim is a 51-year-old Silicon Valley manager who held positions at both Google and Apple.

First, let's tell you what we know about the suspect. She is 26-year- old Alix Tichelman. Investigators say in November of last year, she had a meeting, if you will, with the suspect aboard his yacht in Santa Cruz.

According to police, she injected the victim here, 51-year-old Forrest Hayes, with a lethal dose of heroin, and apparently surveillance cameras aboard the yacht captured a portion of what happened.

And when she sees that the victim is in distress, rather than call 911 or try to help him, according to police, she simply gathers her belongings and then leaves the yacht.

Here's what police are saying. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEPUTY CHIEF STEVE CLARK, SANTA CRUZ, CALIFORNIA, POLICE: She was so callous that in gathering her things she was literally stepping over the body, and at one point stepped over the body to grab a glass of wine and finish the glass of wine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: Police have been tracking the suspect for some time. Remember, this happened in November of last year. They got a hold her text messages and e-mails. They have charged her with second-degree murder.

Now, according to his obituary page, 51-year-old Forrest Hayes was remembered fondly by his Silicon Valley colleagues. They say he was a great manager at both Apple and Google.

He apparently worked on the Google Glass project. We know that he was married and was a father of five. Again, just a tragedy all around here.

We know that the suspect had a meeting in court, 8:15 this morning, local time, and again, she has been charged with second-degree murder.

BANFIELD: The "San Francisco Chronicle" went further to say the detectives looking into this crime actually ended up seeing behavior by this defendant in other states that was similar.

I don't have any other details other than that. I'm not sure that anyone's releasing anything other than that.

Do we know if there are parallel cases elsewhere that are brewing?

SIMON: Good question. Apparently, they are investigating her in connection with a similar incident. We don't have any specific information with respect to that.

We do know that she boasted to authorities, Ashleigh, that she had 200 such client relationships and that she met her clients on a Web site called SeekingArrangements.com, so obviously they're going to be looking at her past very closely.

Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: Amazing story. Dan Simon, live for us, thank you for that.

Imagine finding out that your home was once an alleged killer's torture chamber after you've signed the lease on the dotted line and after you have moved in.

Wait until you hear about one woman's horrifying discovery, and you might be surprised at what the legal rights of this woman and yours would be in a similar circumstance.

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BANFIELD: Watching "Cold Case Mysteries" on TV sometimes can be enough to freak anybody out, but one story you could say really hit home for a woman in Ferguson, Missouri, because the story was based in the home where she was actually watching TV, where she was renting.

A family member had told Catrina McGhaw to check out an A&E documentary on a man named Maury Travis. That man is a suspected serial killer.

Come to find out, the police say something sinister was happening in the depths of the basement more than a decade ago, makeshift torture cells, women tied to wooden beams that still stand to this day, handcuffed and subjected to brutal physical assaults, forced to call Travis "The Master," ultimately before, police say, he murdered them, one by one, their naked bodies then dumped elsewhere.

Travis was a suspect in as many as 20 murders in the St. Louis area. The problem is, he wasn't charged, because the man decided to hang himself in his jail cell in 2002 before he faced the music on these killings.

When McGhaw signed her lease in March, she told our affiliate KMOV that she had no idea about his past or allegedly what took place in this home that's now hers.

McGhaw tried to get out of the lease, but the landlord said no. Guess what? The landlord is the suspect's mother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CATRINA MCGHAW, RENTED ALLEGED SERIAL KILLER'S HOUSE: This whole basement was basically his torture chamber, and it's not OK.

There's no way that she should get away thinking it's OK not to tell people what happened in this house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: What makes this even creepier, if it's possible, a 2-year- old relative was playing in the basement near that pole where Travis allegedly chained up his victims, and this is what she has to say about the child's behavior.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCGHAW: And then she looked over and she's like, she's scared. She's scared like she saw somebody that was scared and crying. Nobody was there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yep, that got me. McGhaw appealed to the St. Louis housing authority over this one. And you know what? She did pretty well. She's now allowed to end her lease early. She's going to be amscraying at the end of this month.

I want to bring in trial lawyer and former assistant U.S. attorney Jim Zirin and criminal and civil trial attorney Eric Guster.

I don't even know where to begin with this one, but I guess it's pretty important to know what the real estate laws are in your state. It's different everywhere. Some places have to disclose this. Other places just don't, right, Eric? GUSTER: Right, and the basic legal premise of this is caveat emptor, buyer beware. It's the buyer's responsibility to investigate the residence, to investigate the history, and see if it's habitable for them.

Now, the law states that condition of the residence must be habitable. There can't be gas leaks, there can't be asbestos, and the landlord has to let the person know about those issues, but not about the history of the residence.

BANFIELD: So ultimately, the things you're referring to, Eric, are material defects. That stuff you have to disclose, right, Jim?

But, ultimately, if something horrible happens, they call these -- apparently, legally call them -- psychological defects in the home.

Are there some states that are compelled, where the renter or the seller is compelled to disclose that, or does it require action on my behalf? Do I have to actually pose that open question?

ZIRIN: I don't know of any state that compels the landlord to disclose the past history of the residence and to disclose events like that.

I think in 15 states, if the renter, the tenant, asks, they -- the landlord has a duty to tell them the truth. The basic rule, is caveat emptor, buyer beware, and there's no obligation to tell.

BANFIELD: Does buyer mean renter as well? Because there's a difference.

GUSTER: Buyer means renter as well.

BANFIELD: Because there is a difference. In some states, they say if you're actually selling a home as opposed to renting it, you are compelled to disclose certain things.

But if you're just renting it, eh, we're OK.

ZIRIN: I think it's the same standard.

GUSTER: The same thing.

ZIRIN: It's the same standard, yes. If I sell you a horse, I don't have to tell you that the horse is lame, but if you ask me if the horse is lame, and the horse is lame, and I say no, then I can't lie.

BANFIELD: I want to show some video of this horribly notorious case in Cleveland where Ariel Castro held three women for up to 10 years, depending on the victim, and this is what they did with that home, as is the case in so many of these notoriously horrific crimes.

Ariel Castro was found guilty of 937 counts, and that now, after the demolition day back in August of 2013, is a park.

But that doesn't always happen. I mean, this is -- this isn't necessary. This is not something that the government decides to do when there's a notorious crime scene, is it?

GUSTER: Some governments do decide to do that. Some governments will actually take a property and demolish it. They will take the property, demolish it, create parks, just like they did in Cleveland.

BANFIELD: It's just the discretion --

ZIRIN: In the first place, if it's a particularly infamous crime, such as the one you described that goes on for a long time, then the house itself becomes an infamous house. And that was something that might be in one category.

But suppose there's a home invasion. I know of one case in Florida where there was a home invasion and murder, and they sold the house, and the people who bought the house lived there very happily for 25 years. Others, it might be a conversation piece.

BANFIELD: I think in New Orleans it's actually a plus if you can suggest you've got some haunting in your bed and breakfast. People actually -- they can sell that on the bed-and-breakfast sites. It's just a fascinating notion.

Ultimately, they did take pity on this woman and she is going to be able to move out.

GUSTER: The housing authority stepped in because she was on public assistance, so the housing authority stepped in and told the landlord, if you want to continue to participate in this program, then you'll let this lady out of her lease.

BANFIELD: But she got lucky, though. She got lucky. But, ultimately, like you said, caveat emptor. There's all sorts of Web sites you can go to look up with there's been any notorious things going on in your residence.

James Zirin -- Jim -- thank you for being here. Eric Guster, nice to see you again. Thank you.

GUSTER: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Thanks to both of you.

ZIRIN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: If the president of the United States is offered legal recreational marijuana, what should his answer be? Somebody actually dared to go there, folks.

Mr. Obama was offered pot last night, and it was all caught on tape. And you're going to see what his answer is to the big offer, next.

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BANFIELD: NBA owner Donald Sterling could be back on the witness stand later today. He's asking a court to stop his wife from selling his basketball team, that is, if it's his. Let's make that clear. The old L.A. Clippers battle, Shelly Sterling has negotiated a deal to sell that team to Steve Ballmer, the former CEO of Microsoft.

CNN's Sara Sidner says to us now that Donald Sterling got pretty darned emotional when he got on the witness stand.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The drama started before court began with the entrance of Shelly Sterling. Her husband, Donald Sterling, was ushered through a private entrance, but it was his testimony in court that created the biggest stir.

Donald Sterling was emotional. At first, he teared up when talking about his wife Shelly. "I trusted my wife, I relied on her, I love her," he said, and took a deep breath, trying not to cry, then continued. "I authorized her to negotiate. Negotiate is not to consummate a sale."

For most of the testimony, though, he was combative, at times even ridiculed his estranged wife's attorney Burt Fields, would is one of L.A.'s most feared litigators. At one point, Donald Sterling objects to a question Fields asks, saying, "Be a man, for God's sakes. Stand up and be a man."

For several questions involved dates and times, Donald said he didn't remember, even when Shelly's attorney read out what Donald said during this interview with CNN's own Anderson Cooper.

DONALD STERLING, L.A. CLIPPERS OWNER: I have 29 partners in a league that's a wonderful league. I respect them and I love every owner. Every owner knows me. I love the commissioner.

SIDNER: Sterling says he couldn't remember that exchange either. But he did remember exactly why he did not want to sell the team for $2 billion.

He believes his wife was being taken advantage of by the NBA, and the team was actually worth more, even double.

MAX BLECHER, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD STERLING: The idea that this is $2 billion is an extravagance is wrong. He actually thinks it's going to be worth more than that because of the television contracts down the road.

SIDNER: As for his performance on the stand, both sides were equally enthusiastic.

ADAM STREISAND, ATTORNEY FOR STEVE BALLMER: Donald Sterling did nothing but prove that the doctors were absolutely correct in their conclusions, and, you know, you can't help but be -- feel a little sad, sympathy for the man, because clearly is not working with all of his faculties.

BOBBY SAMINI, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD STERLING: I think Donald did an excellent job on the stand. I want to say, out of all the lawyers that were in that room, if I needed a lawyer, I'd hire him.

I think the claim that he lacks competency is a sham. It's absurd.

SIDNER: It was clear in the packed courtroom that Donald Sterling was holding court in probate court. He's expected to take the stand later today.

Sara Sidner, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: So it's not very often you see the president of the United States in a bar, but that is where President Obama spent a little time last night in Denver, and take a look what happened when he was saying hello to the people there and shaking hands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to hit this?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Seriously, you want to hit this? Are you kidding me? As you can see, he didn't accept the offer of pot. Colorado is one of two states where recreational marijuana is legal.

The president did have a beer with Governor John Hickenlooper and the two played a game of pool. President Obama won, by the way.

Thanks for watching. "WOLF" starts right now.