Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Cuba Policy Shift Examined; Sen. Rubio Denounces Policy Shift; More Perspectives on Cuba Policy Shift

Aired December 17, 2014 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And to put all this in perspective you recall when the President went to Nelson Mandela's memorial service in South Africa last December and he had that handshake with Raul Castro. They were shaking hands as U.S. and Cuba were engaged in these talks. And according to senior administration official ...

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Jim Acosta, I'm going to interrupt you for a moment because Senator Marco Rubio, the senator from Florida himself, Cuban American is very unhappy about this announcement today. I want to listen in and hear what he's saying.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLORIDA: The White House has conceded everything and gained little. They gained no commitment on the part of the Cuban regime to freedom of press or freedom of speech or elections. No binding commitment was made to truly open up the Internet. No commitment was made to allowing the establishment of political parties or to even begin the semblance of a transition to a democracy. And in exchange for all of these concessions, the only thing the Cuban government agreed to do is free 53 political prisoners who could wind up in jail tomorrow morning if they once again take up the cause of freedom and to allow the United Nations and the Red Cross to monitor conditions on the island, the same United Nations that did nothing when Cuba last year was caught helping North Korea evade United Nations sanctions.

This entire policy shift announced today is based on an illusion, on a lie, the lie and the illusion that more commerce and access to money and goods will translate to political freedom for the Cuban people. All this is going to do is give the Castro regime, which controls every aspect of Cuban life, the opportunity to manipulate these changes to perpetuate itself in power.

These changes will only lead to greater wealth and influence for this oppressive regime, especially the military, which controls most, if not all, of the Cuban economy and controls all of its oppressed people. These changes will lead to legitimacy for a government that shamelessly, continuously abuses human rights, but it will not lead to assistance for those whose rights are being abused.

It is just another concession to a tyranny by the Obama administration rather than a defense of every universal and inalienable right that our country was founded on and stands for. In short, what these changes are going to do is they will tighten this

regime's grip on power for decades to come, and it will significantly set back the hopes of freedom and democracy for the Cuban people.

Now, I am overjoyed for Alan Gross and his family. He has been a hostage of this regime who was kept against his will for far too long. Our prayers are with him and his family, because he was not just a prisoner, he was a hostage. But this president has proven today that his foreign policy is more than just naive; it is willfully ignorant of the way the world truly works.

This administration just last week finally agreed after months of congressional pressure to impose sanctions on the Venezuelan government officials who are violating human rights, a government that has spent all of 2014 appallingly killing, jailing, and violently oppressing its own people. And yet, a week later, this administration is making historic concessions to the very Cuban government that supports and is behind the tyranny in Venezuela. The Cuban government is influential at the highest levels of the Venezuelan regime and has helped them mastermind the crackdown on the Venezuelan people. This policy contradiction is absurd, and it is disgraceful for a president who claims to treasure human rights and human freedom.

This president is the single worst negotiator we have had in the White House in my lifetime, who has basically given the Cuban government everything it asked for and received no assurances of any advances in democracy and freedom in return.

Let me close by reminding everyone that God bestowed on the Cuban people the same rights that he did on every other man, woman and child that has ever lived, the inalienable rights spoken about in our founding documents. The Cuban people, like all those oppressed around the world, they look to America to stand up for these rights, to live up to our commitment to the God-given right of every person to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. These rights exist not just for people born in the continental United States, but for people everywhere.

It is unacceptable that the only people in this hemisphere that do not know democracy and have not known democracy for more than five decades is the people of Cuba. That should be our overriding objective: to do all we can to bring about political democratic openings in Cuba, and then a free Cuban people can decide whatever economic model they want.

But the measures taken today will do nothing to bring about that day and, in fact, I fear will significantly set it back. Today, by conceding to the oppressors, this president and this administration have let the people of Cuba down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So there you have it. Senator Marco Rubio condemning this decision by President Obama today, condemning the decision to go ahead and improve U.S-Cuban relations the most dramatic improvement in some 50 years going back to the Cuban revolution in 1961. The president of the United States and the president of Cuba simultaneously speaking to the American people on the president, President Obama's part, the Cuban people and president Raul Castro's part saying there will be a full diplomatic relationship now between the two countries and an historic opening up of economic and commercial ties at the same time.

The White House did release a photograph. Here's a picture of President Obama speaking with Raul Castro. They spoke for about 45 minutes yesterday. There's the president on the phone with Raul Castro, his top aides sitting in the Oval Office with him yesterday is described as a 45-minute or one hour phone conversation.

Now, the most significant conversation, the most detailed conversation that an American president has had with a Cuban leader in more than 50 years. And once again, going back to the Cuban revolution in 1961. CNN en Espanol's correspondent Juan Carlos Lopez has been covering this U.S-Cuban relationship for a long time.

Juan Carlos, how is this going to be received throughout the hemisphere, because I think the United States was really the only country, correct me if I'm wrong, that did not have full diplomatic relations with Cuba?

JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN EN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: It's sinking in. The announcement is sinking in. A lot of people just listening and hearing and reading and trying to confirm, because obviously to a lot of people, a lot of people who fought the Cold War, lot of people who have seen the relationship between these countries, this is a huge deal. This is something significant. It could be significant for the better or for the worst depending on who you ask and depending on the position we just heard Senator Marco Rubio and a lot of people in the States and a lot of people in the Cuban think like he does.

Others don't, so it's going to be interesting. But in Latin America, it was seen as an obstacle, it was seen as something that did not make sense. President Obama in his speech mentioned how the U.S. has full diplomatic relationship with China, a communist country, with Vietnam who we have fought a war with and we did not have that relationship with Cuba.

So, that will obviously make a change. Now, the U.S. has actually very intense relationship with Venezuela. Venezuela and Cuba have very close relation. This will probably also help the U.S. Another important announcement, Cuba will attend the Summit of the Americas next year in Panama that hasn't happened since the first summit in 1994. This was significant. It was ones of the science of things that were to come that were confirmed today in this announcement and it will probably have an impact in the relationship the U.S. has with certain countries in Latin America not with all, with others it is very fluid relationship but obviously a normalization of relationship of the relation between Cuba and United States is a very big deal.

BLITZER: It's a huge, huge deal and historic moment that has just happened. Juan Carlos, stand by.

I want to bring Democratic Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland. I understand, Senator, you were there when Alan Gross landed, his wife Judy landed, the others landed after five years of captivity being held a prisoner in Cuba. He's from Rockville, Maryland. One of your constituents. Did you have a chance to speak with him there at Joint Base Andrews?

SEN. BEN CARDIN, D-MARYLAND: Well, I did with Senator Mikulski and others, we had a chance not only to see him and say hello to him but to talk to him a little bit about his experiences in Cuba.

I'll tell you, it's quite an emotional moment particularly on this first day of Hanukah, what a miracle to see him with his family again. So, it was an emotional day and we had a real good opportunity to get his assessment.

BLITZER: What was your assessment of his health? Because we had been told he was in pretty bad shape. When I interviewed him a couple of years ago in prison he had told me he lost 100 pounds, his wife Judy was really worried that he was basically on the way out. How they he appeared to you today?

CARDIN: Well, he was certainly in great spirit. He was very much engaged. He talked with us about the people that he met in Cuba, the people he shared cells with. He talked to us a little bit about his experiences with the Cuban people. So no, I think that his health, everything considered -- five years in captivity -- I thought his health was very strong. Obviously he has health issues, we know that. He has serious health issues that needed to be attended to but certainly he was in good spirits.

BLITZER: You welcome this improvement and U.S-Cuban relations. We just heard Senator Marco Rubio of Florida condemn this decision by the president to go ahead and normalize relations with Cuba. You believe this is a good thing, right?

CARDIN: I think it's a step in the right direction obviously with the Cubans holding Alan Gross. It was a non-starter, it would not have happen. Now, that we have least been able to get some of this out of the way, I think it's in both country's interest to develop a better relationship between the two countries. So, yes, I do welcome this. But I'm going to make it clear, just because we have relations that doesn't mean that we're not going to be as strong as ever in regards to basic human rights. And the Cuban government does deny its people some of the basic human rights that we have to stand firm about.

BLITZER: Marco Rubio says that the President gave away everything and basically got nothing in return. Now, your response.

CARDIN: You know, it's understandably I have to look at all the details but I know that there some additional individuals being released political prisoners, there some opening of the way the Cubans will be able to get information which I think it very, very important. I think the fact that we'll have more American activity in Cuba will help promote democracy. We know that from other countries experienced those that were behind the iron curtain, they're now democratic countries. We see that when America has the opportunity to put people to be with other people for other countries, there are values really do trump out and I think that's will happen in Cuba. BLITZER: And so your bottom line is that you think that Alan Gross seems to be OK, physically right now, he seem is in good spirit. Base on your eye witness account you were there, you received him at the Joint Base Andrews outside of Washington DC. You seem to think he's OK.

CARDIN: Of course, his wife Judy, that always makes someone feel better. He is with some of his friends. He clearly was emotional about being back in United States with a great spirit. He was anxious I think to get on with his life. You also, by the way, wanted to a good (inaudible) sandwich. We're going to make sure that happens.

BLITZER: OK. And as you point out, he's Jewish. This is first day of Hanukah so it's nice Hanukah gift for Alan Gross and his wife Judy, their daughters, the entire family, as you correctly point out. Ben Cardin, a Democratic senator from Maryland is welcoming this decision by President Obama. Thanks very much for joining us.

Our chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, is getting some new information on this U.S. intelligence asset that has been freed 20 years in captivity for spying on behalf of the United States inside Cuba. What are you learning, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That right Wolf, until now we just know that this was intelligence asset but this coming from the director of national Intelligence, we're learning that the United States secure the release, this is a Cuban individual from a Cuban prison who the director of national intelligence says provided critical assistants to the United States, and it goes on to list a number of the cases that this intelligence asset provided information on that includes the prosecution of a former defense intelligence agency analyst Ana Belen Montes, a former department of State official -- you may remember this case, Wolf, Walter Kendall Myers and his wife Gwendolyn Myers helped lead to their capture based on information that this intelligence asset provided, as well as members of what's known as the Red Avispa network, this is the so called Wasp network of spies here in the US.

So, again, this intelligence asset released today as part of this exchange with the Cubans that was released and sent back to Cuba actually a Cuban national but a Cuban national who is working for and providing critical intelligence to the U.S intelligence agencies now free after 20 years in the Cuban prison

And just one final line from this statement, it says, "In light of his sacrifice on behalf of the United States, securing his release from prison after 20 years is a fitting closure to this Cold War chapter in U.S-Cuban relations there." So, again, some more details of exactly who's been crossing the boarder today as part of this momentum, this story exchange.

BLITZER: Do we this spy, the Cuban spy for the United States is now in the United States or has he been freed and he remains in Cuba?

SCIUTTO: We don't know if he's arrived in the U.S. but the idea is he will be coming to the U.S. He certainly not going to stay in Cuba after this and that is justified, based on what the DNI is saying, the Director of National Intelligence is saying is that this person at great risk to himself provided at what the DNI is describing as critical assistant to the US and then of course you have that list of all the all the spies working for Cuba, that he, this intel asset helped identify during the course of his work for U.S. intelligence.

BLITZER: Jim Sciutto, stand by.

Elise Labott, our global affairs correspondent. You have more information on this American spy 20 years in a Cuban prison for helping the United States?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the intelligent agency. As Jim said, well, the broke up this lost network. These -- This is the network that the Cuban Five that were release today, were part of that network that and one of this the Geraldo Hernandez was one of the people that helped down that plane of the Brothers in Arms in 1996. So, these are really all interrelated, it's a very symbolic trade of spies, Alan Gross being released today as the humanitarian gesture as part to this larger deal with the US ...

BLITZER: And this American spy is he still in Cuba? Was he on this plane coming to Joint Base Andrews? Is he already in the United States?

LABOTT: He took another plane Wolf, outside of Cuba to the United States. And we understand he will be -- he is in the United States and will be staying here. US official said to me that this information that he provided the U.S. government was critical in terms of wrapping up intelligence networks on the U.S. military bases, on information about Cuban exiles here in the United States, and officials today calling him a hero.

BLITZER: But they haven't release this man yet?

LABOTT: They're not going to release his man for security purposes.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN: And, well, can I just say what we're seeing play out here already on the political side. We've just learn that House Speaker John Boehner is against this normalizing a relation he says at the United States has giving what he calls mindless concessions, OK.

You read that to what we heard Marco Rubio say. Jeb Bush has also said we shouldn't be negotiating with a repressive of regime. Marco Rubio is saying we have conceded to be oppressors.

And generally, what this place into is the story line of a Republican heading into 2016, of course, that this is a president who displace weakness and face to the bad guys. This will effect of course how they regard an Iranian nuclear negotiation, they said the same thing about this swap with Bergdahl and the negotiations with the Taliban. So, I mean you see this kind of narrative developing and I'm sure it's going to continue into 2016 and Marco Rubio could not have been stronger in his remark. He called the president did today disgraceful. BLITZER: Yes. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of criticism and we're going to cover all of it the good, the bad, and the ugly. What's going on right now, we're standing by. We're getting a lot more reaction to the history news today. Normalization of relationships between the United States and Cuba for the first time going back more than 50 years much more of our special coverage right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're getting lots of reaction to the historic news today, the United States and Cuba about to normalize relations, full diplomatic relations, improve economic and commercial ties tourism. They got Alan -- U.S. got Alan Gross, an American contractor's helper five years. He's now back here in the United States. Another U.S. spy been held by Cuba for 20years. He is freed as well. Three Cuban prisoners held in United States as part of the Cuban Five. They had been freed at the same time.

Carl Levin, the outgoing chairman of the Senate Armed Services Communities retiring from the U.S. senate and a Democrat from Michigan. Good news, bad news, what do you think Senator?

SEN. CARL LEVIN, D-MICHIGAN: I think this is the right thing to do by the president. Alan Gross is somebody who never should have been in prison. There's very important intelligence operative, who's paid a heavy price for helping America has been on a Cuba prison 20 years. I think the president's decision was right in terms of that swap of the two for the three.

And I think it's also right to try to have a more normal relationship with Cuba after all been take us five decades to realize that we should have a normal relationship with communist China. We have absolutely no use for the Chinese communist leadership but when President Nixon went to China he did the right thing and gradually opening up China and having a normal relationship reducing the likelihood of conflict and that kind of a problem that really needs to be ended. The Cold War is over. We don't like Cuban leadership. We don't like the Cuba -- We don't like the leadership and a whole bunch of countries that we have normal relations with.

BLITZER: So, what do you say to your colleagues, Senator Marco Rubio? We just heard from him saying, this is a disaster. The U.S. gave up everything. The Cubans got everything they wanted. And the U.S. basically got nothing in return, Alan Gross issue never held to begin with. He spy and this other spy who was working for the United States, he has been freed. But, basically Marco Rubio says, "This is a disaster for the U.S." And he also says that President Obama is the worst negotiator he has ever seen.

LEVIN: Well, first of all, I think there's sort of among the Republicans, the determination to be critical of anything that President Obama does. For this foreign policy to be so partizanized by some Republicans to attack the president for any step that he makes. I think is inconsistent with a need to have a by bipartisan foreign policy. I think when Senator Rubio says that we got nothing. He should talk to the family of Alan Gross. He should talk to the family of the intelligence operative that saved American life that is now out of Cuban prison. That is such an exaggerated statements to suggest that w got nothing, nothing in exchange. Of course, we got. We got key people, human beings, Americans like Alan Gross. And there's a lot more that's at stake here, too, by the way, after the Vietnam War we finally decide that we would have a normal relationship with Vietnam.

We were at war with Vietnam. We lost over 50,000 troops in Vietnam. And we decided rightfully so, with the support of many of our soldiers who have been to Vietnam to have a normal relationship with Vietnam. It was the right thing to do. And this is the right thing to do as well.

BLITZER: Senator Levin, thanks very much for joining us and thanks very much for your many years in the United States senate. I know you're living the U.S senate. I appreciate your service over these many years. So thanks very much for joining us.

LEVIN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Senator Carl Levin of Michigan. And by the way, Happy Hanukah to you.

Let's bring in Representative Mario Diaz-Balart. He's Republican from Florida. He represents Florida's 2015 congressional district. Congressman, I think you're not very happy about this announcement today?

REP. MARIO DIAZ-BALART, R-FLORIDA: Wolf, we're always happy about the reunification of Alan Gross with his family, you know, somebody who should have never spent one day in prison. However, the way that this release was achieved is frankly outrageous and it really proves once again that President Obama is really -- you know, he's the appeaser- in-chief who is willing to provide unprecedented concessions to a brutal, anti-American state-sponsor of terrorism 90 miles away.

It really has very little precedent. And this is just months after the Cuban regime was caught sending arms to the North Korean regime in violation of U.N. sanctions. So, months after that, what President Obama does is he gives the Castro regime everything that they have been asking for decades.

And when he gets back is Alan Gross in exchange for some spies that were here in prison. But then he gives everything else, the farm, the house, and frankly this is not a political narrative, Wolf. This is a national security and American values narrative and story line. And again, once again, President Obama has given everything in order to get very little in return.

BLITZER: What do you say the president -- and you heard Carl Levin say it, Ben Cardin has said it -- the U.S. can have normal diplomatic commercial relations with the communist regime in China or our normal diplomatic relations with Vietnam. Why not with Cuba? BALART: Because we don't diplomatic relations with Iran as states sponsor of terrorism. And by the way, I'm actually shocked that the people use China and Vietnam as the example to follow, because those are oppressive regimes.

I frankly think of that we're going to regret the date that we treat China as if they were, you know, a democratic wonderful democracy loving country. Having said that, we don't have diplomatic relationships with states who sponsor terrorism. Cuba is state- sponsor of terrorism.

Now, Wolf, mark my words. Watch, President Obama will give that away as well. He will change that designation that has been there under his administration and previous administrations, because I guarantee you that another concession that the president has given to the Castro regime, is he going to take Cuba at the state -- off the list of state-sponsored terrorism whether it's a state sponsor of terrorism.

President Obama has appeased it, giving at everything that they have been asking for. And the only thing -- there are no guarantee for people having more freedom, there are no demand frankly for any verification of the little that the president says he's asking for. But what he has given is what the Castro regime has been demanding, asking for and praying for decades...

BLITZER: All right.

BALART: President Obama, it shouldn't surprise us, has basically bailed out the Castro regime.

BLITZER: Representative Mario Diaz-Balart of Florida, thanks very much for your perspective. We're going to obviously stay in close touch with you.

Lots of reaction coming into CNN from here in United States from Cuba all over the world, we are the only U.S. television network that has a correspondent, Patrick Oppmann, reporting live from Havana. Much more of our coverage right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)