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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Two Hostages Killed in U.S. Counterterror Operation. Aired 12- 12:30p ET

Aired April 23, 2015 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We begin with this breaking news on CNN. The White House just a short time ago, sharing details of an American tragedy. A U.S. counterterrorism mission, that was meant to take out some senior al Qaeda figures, well, it did, but it also went terribly wrong and two western hostages were also killed. One of them, this man, Warren Weinstein, an American contractor, a government contractor. Al Qaeda grabbed him in 2011 and the last proof of life video that we saw was more than a year ago. Weinstein and another hostage, an Italian, Giovanni Lo Porto, were apparently in the al Qaeda compound that was hit by a drone strike in January. The president says mission controllers did not know those two hostages were there and he's calling it a mistake. The president is also apologizing to both of those families.

And then there's something else, other people, others who were killed in those counterterror missions, other Americans. But these U.S. citizens were part of al Qaeda, sworn and loyal members of the terrorist group. They are also dead.

And we've got so much to talk about, this mission that both hurt al Qaeda, but also cost the lives of two innocent men. The president taking responsibility for their death, apologizing for them and, of course, the deaths of these American men who joined the terrorists and even held leadership positions in al Qaeda.

First, I want to give you the full statement by the president. It happened less than two hours ago at the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This morning, I want to express our grief and condolences to the families of two hostages. One American, Dr. Warren Weinstein, and an Italian, Giovanni Lo Porto, who were tragically killed in a U.S. counterterrorism operation. Warren and Giovanni were aid workers in Pakistan, devoted to improving the lives of the Pakistani people.

After Warren was abducted by al Qaeda in 2011, I directed my national security team to do everything possible to find him and to bring him home safely to his family. And dedicated professionals across our government worked tirelessly to do so. We also worked closely with our Italian allies on behalf of Giovanni who was kidnapped in 2012. Since 9/11, our counterterrorism efforts have prevented terrorist

attacks and saved innocent lives, both here in America and around the world. And that determination to protect innocent life only makes the loss of these two men especially painful for all of us.

Based on information and intelligence we have obtained, we believe that a U.S. counterterrorism operation targeting an al Qaeda compound in the Afghanistan/Pakistan border region accidentally killed Warren and Giovanni this past January.

Yesterday, I spoke with Warren's wife, Elaine, and Prime Minister Renzi of Italy. As a husband and as a father, I cannot begin to imagine the anguish that the Weinstein and Lo Porto families are enduring today. I realize that there are no words that can ever equal their loss. I know that there is nothing that I can ever say or do to ease their heartache. And today I simply want to say this. As president and as commander in chief, I take full responsibility for all our counterterrorism operations, including the one that inadvertently took the lives of Warren and Giovanni. I profoundly regret what happened. On behalf of the United States government, I offer our deepest apologies to the families.

As soon as we determined the cause of their deaths, I directed that the existence of this operation be declassified and disclosed publicly. I did so because the Weinstein and Lo Porto families deserved to know the truth. And I did so because even as certain aspects of our national security efforts have to remain secret in order to succeed, the United States is a democracy committed to openness in good times and in bad.

Our initial assessment indicates that this operation was fully consistent with the guidelines under which we conduct counterterrorism efforts in the region, which has been our focus for years because it is the home of al Qaeda's leadership. And based on the intelligence that we had obtained at the time, including hundreds of hours of surveillance, we believed that this was an al Qaeda compound, that no civilians were present and that capturing these terrorists was not possible. And we do believe that the operation did take out dangerous members of al Qaeda. What we did not know, tragically, is that al Qaeda was hiding the presence of Warren and Giovanni in this same compound.

[12:05:27] It is a cruel and bitter truth that in the fog of war generally, and our fight against terrorists specifically, mistakes, sometimes deadly mistakes, can occur. But one of the things that sets America apart from many other nations, one of the things that makes us exceptional is our willingness to confront squarely our imperfections and to learn from our mistakes.

Already I have directed a full review of what happened. We will identify the lessons that can be learned from this tragedy and any changes that should be made. We will do our utmost to ensure it is not repeated. And we will continue to do everything we can to prevent the loss of innocent lives, not just innocent Americans, but all innocent lives in our counterterrorism operations. Today we join their families and friends in honoring Warren and

Giovanni, two humanitarians who came from different countries but who were united by a spirit of service. For decades, Warren lived the ideals of our country, serving with the Peace Corps and later with the United States Agency for International Development. He devoted his life to people across Africa and south Asia. He was a loving husband, father and grandfather who willingly left the comforts of home to help the people of Pakistan. At the time of his abduction, he was a USAID contractor focusing on helping Pakistani families escape poverty and give a better life to their children.

Giovanni's humanitarianism also took him around the world to the Central African Republic, to Haiti and ultimately Pakistan. Like Warren, he fell in love with Pakistan and its people and believed passionately that he could make a difference in their lives. Giovanni's service reflected the commitment of the Italian people, our great allies and friend to the security and dignity of people around the world. And today is a reminder of the bonds of friendship between our countries and the shared values that bind Americans and Italians together.

There could be no starker contrast between these two selfless men and their al Qaeda captors. Warren's work benefited people across faiths. Meanwhile, al Qaeda boasted to the world that it held Warren, citing his Jewish faith. Al Qaeda held both men for years, even as Warren's health deteriorated. They deprived these men of precious, irreplaceable years with family who missed them terribly.

Amid grief that is unimaginable, I pray that these two families will find some small measure of solace in knowing that Warren and Giovanni's legacy will endure. Their service will be remembered by the Pakistani men, women and children whose lives they touched and made better. Their spirit will live on in the love of their families who are in our thoughts and prayers today, especially Warren's wife, Elaine, their daughters, Alicia and Jennifer, and their families. And the shining example of these two men will stand as a light to people the world over who see suffering and answer with compassion, who see hatred and offer their love, who see war and work for peace.

May God bless these two brave men and may he watch over and comfort their families for all the years to come.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: President Obama, just a short time ago, detailing the counterterrorism mission that, his word, "inadvertently" killed American hostage Warren Weinstein and Italian hostage Giovanni Lo Porto.

I also now have a statement from Elaine Weinstein, that's Warren Weinstein's wife, who says that the family still doesn't have all of the information about what exactly happened to him. So this from Elaine Weinstein.

"On behalf of myself, our two daughters, our son-in-law and two grandchildren, we are devastated by this news and the knowledge that my husband will never safely return home. We were so hopeful that those in the U.S. and Pakistani governments, with the power to take action and secure his release, would have done everything possible to do so. And there are no words to do justice to the disappointment and heartbreak that we are going through. We do not yet fully understand all of the facts surrounding Warren's death, but we do understand that the U.S. government will be conducting an independent investigation of the circumstances. We look forward to the results of that investigation.

[12:10:21] But those who took Warren captive over three years ago bear ultimate responsibility. I can assure you that he would still be alive and well had they allowed him to return home after his time abroad working to help the people of Pakistan. The cowardly actions of those who took Warren captive and ultimately to the place and time of his death are not in keeping with Islam. And they will have to face their god to answer for their actions. We hope that my husband's death and the others who have faced similar tragedies in recent months will finally prompt the U.S. government to take its responsibilities seriously and establish a coordinated and consistent approach to supporting hostages and their families.

I am disappointed in the government and military in Pakistan. Warren's safe return should have been a priority for them based on his contributions to their country. But they failed to take action early in his captivity when opportunity presented itself. Instead, treating Warren's captivity as more of an annoyance than as a priority."

The words of Elaine Weinstein on behalf of her family.

Just ahead, I'm going to talk with a long-time friend of Warren Weinstein. And up next, just who was the U.S. targeting? And why are we just hearing about this terrible turn of events three months after they all happened? More on that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:17] BANFIELD: We have just received word from the Italian foreign minister blaming al Qaeda for the deaths of the hostages that we're now just learning about from a statement live from the president just over two hours ago. And let me just read along here as I'm getting it for the first time.

The Italian foreign minister Paolo Gentiloni said the Italian government had been working for three years to try to secure the return of Giovanni Lo Porto, who was their citizen, who was killed in this drone strike, adding, quote, "the conclusion is now different because of the tragic and fatal mistake of our American allies, which had been recognized by President Obama." The foreign minister went on to blame al Qaeda ultimately for the death of Lo Porto and the American hostage as well. As we've been reporting, Warren Weinstein also died in these drone strikes. And the foreign minister reaffirming Italy's commitment to the allies fighting al Qaeda. Again, that just breaking from Italy's foreign minister, that coming in to CNN.

This is the hour's breaking news here. The counterterrorism missions carried out by the United States that evoked two very different announcements from the White House. One, the deaths of two key al Qaeda figures, both of them American citizens who swore their loyalty to terrorists instead. But the other prong of that news, the tragedy that during those missions two hostages were also killed, an American citizen and that Italian citizen on the right-hand side of your screen.

Joining me now, CNN's senior national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, who's live in Washington.

So, Jim, obviously this begs the question right off the bat, if this happened in January, as the president asserts and has done so live in his statement, why are we now hearing about this three to four months later?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, because it takes a long time to confirm these deaths. You often have that in drone strikes like this, even when you know the target. I'm told that they did not have bodies here. They did not have DNA evidence. So this was based on an accumulation of evidence, circumstantial evidence that they made an assessment and they would take their time making it, such an assessment, before they would, for instance, tell the family and, keep in mind, I'm told that the Weinstein family was only told yesterday about this, given the equivalent of a classified briefing, the CIA making the case through the preponderance of evidence that led them to this conclusion. Without a body, without DNA evidence, it would take time to make that judgment.

BANFIELD: So - I mean fascinating that they're saying no DNA evidence and yet there's - what they quote as circumstantial evidence and accounts on the ground, including something that might involve CIA confirmations, as well. Are we getting any information as to what exactly that is? I'm just trying to picture, if there's a drone strike, then who comes in afterwards? Because that's effective some kind of boot on the ground that needs to make contact and actually figure out what happened. Or is it all foreign confirmation?

SCIUTTO: One thing we know, there were no boots on the ground. There were no boots on the ground in this - in the operation and the strikes. They were drone strikes from the air and they wouldn't have sent boots on the ground to confirm the death. I mean that's something that has happened in previous strikes immediately following, but it's unlikely in this case. Now, it doesn't mean they don't have contacts on the ground, intelligence contacts that would be part of that broader intellect - intelligence picture, but extremely unlikely they had boots on the ground, any involvement from start to finish on this. In fact, I'm told there were no boots on the ground involvement. So that's - you know, this -

BANFIELD: Ah, you know, Jim, I'm just going to jump in there only because I remember in, you know, 2001, I think it was October, there were no boots on the ground in northern Pakistan, in this particular region that we're talking about, and yet I ran into the CIA up there myself, complete with sidearms and long arms, too.

SCIUTTO: Right. Well, I -

BANFIELD: So that's why I asked.

SCIUTTO: No, I'm not saying -

BANFIELD: Were the CIA there to try to make the I.D.?

SCIUTTO: I'm not saying that there were no human resources on the ground in Pakistan.

BANFIELD: Yes.

SCIUTTO: I'm just saying that on the site of these attacks, you know, that would be one. Clearly it was a difficult thing to do before, right, because these strikes were based on aerial surveillance and that evidence turned out to be wrong, right, because you killed two hostages and you killed two senior al Qaeda leaders, but I'm told by U.S. officials that they did not believe them to be these two men who were killed because had they known that they were Americans, that their, as you know better than me, Ashleigh, they would have had to go through a number of legal traps to do that.

BANFIELD: That's a great point.

SCIUTTO: And I'm told the that -

BANFIELD: A very good point.

SCIUTTO: The extent of their knowledge before these strikes was they believed there were senior al Qaeda leaders present but they did not know who those senior leaders were. How did you make that judgment? You make that judgment based on a lot of things. What kind of people come to visit? How big are the convoys? This sort of thing. So you could conceivably make a judgment that someone's senior without knowing who that senior person is.

[12:20:00] You know, big picture, this is a remarkable day. It's a sad day for the families of those American - of the American and the Italian hostage, but it's also a difficult day for the CIA to kill two innocents but also to kill two Americans, right, where you would have legally had to go through these traps (ph). Yes, they got senior leaders, but they didn't because they didn't know who they were. They didn't go through the proper legal steps to do so.

BANFIELD: Well, I mean, look, we all sort of have to hash this out after the death of Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen because there was this memo that had to be leaked, you know, leaked to the press before we had any idea as to what the White House's position was when it came to targeting or at least taking out dangerous Americans.

SCIUTTO: Ys.

BANFIELD: And they've made their position somewhat clear, but it's still - there are a lot of questions. Jim Sciutto, thank you. Great reporting. Appreciate that.

SCIUTTO: Thank you. BANFIELD: Coming up next, the reaction of a very close friend of the American hostage killed in this U.S. strike gone bad. I'm going to be speaking with a man who has known Warren Weinstein since 1968.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Back to our breaking news story. The White House announcement that a U.S. counterterrorism operation targeting an al Qaeda compound back in January accidentally killed two innocent hostages. One of them was Warren Weinstein, the 73-year-old American aid worker who was abducted from his home in Lahore, Pakistan, back in 2011. The gunman posed as neighbors offering food, then they pistol- whipped Weinstein and tied up his guards. U.S. officials had called for his release over the years, but repeatedly they said they would not bargain with al Qaeda.

[12:25:10] The family of Mr. Weinstein, of course, devastated. Former Ambassador Dan Simpson joins me now. He met Weinstein in Burundi (ph) in 1968 and they had been friends ever since that time.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you for being with us. Your initial reaction to hearing this devastating news today?

DAN SIMPSON, FORMER AMBASSADOR: I have a fairly tough shell, but that one, it really got to me. First of all, because of Warren and then today the contrast with -- between him and Petraeus, who gets off with a very, very light sentence, and just the fact that I had tried, with the little that I could do, to encourage the government, the American government, to work for his release for some period of time and basically the feeling that I had simply failed at that.

I wrote a column about it. I talked to the State Department about it. I involved our Pittsburgh congressman, Mike Doyle, in talking to John Kerry, the secretary of state, about it, but it didn't work.

I find what our government did to be consistent with its murderous approach to what takes place in the Middle East. I mean this makes the fifth American that's been killed in a drone strike. The four - four previous ones without due process of law and Warren Weinstein accidentally, we're told.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you, Mr. Ambassador, the statement that Elaine Weinstein released on behalf of her family, it certainly did take elements of the U.S. government to task. Thanked others, members of Congress and those who had helped him throughout these very, very trying years. And then ultimately said, it is those who took my husband hostage and put him in that predicament who are ultimately responsible for this.

SIMPSON: Well, the - the -

BANFIELD: But given that - given that -

SIMPSON: That is, of course, true.

BANFIELD: Did the Weinstein family feel like the Americans didn't treat them the right way? I mean it seemed like a mixed message.

SIMPSON: Well, I think the last juncture which something might have been done. I mean the question was raised by the exchange that freed Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl. That's what occasion my last column on the subject. I mean if we can trade people - if we can trade people who are considered to be terrorists for Bowe Bergdahl, why can't we trade some of them for Warren Weinstein?

Warren Weinstein was a very kind person and someone who was very sensitive to the needs of the people that he worked with. I found that to be the case in Burundi in 1968 back before the dawn of time, and I know that that was the case when he was in Pakistan. So, if we can go all out for that, for Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl, why can't we go all out for Warren Weinstein?

Now, the argument about whether the American - the United States should pay ransom or not, very complicated argument. And I, you know, I still don't have what I consider, in my own mind, to be a definitive answer on that.

BANFIELD: So I read your postgazette.com (ph) piece from two years ago and you listed out the four possibilities of why -

SIMPSON: No, no, last June.

BANFIELD: From two years ago, from 2014, I beg your pardon.

SIMPSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: And you listed out the four possibilities of why he may have been taken.

SIMPSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: One, just being that he was American. Possibly one being that he was undercover CIA. That's what they might have thought when they grabbed him.

SIMPSON: Right.

BANFIELD: A third that he's Jewish. And then the fourth he really nailed down and that's what we're talking about now, the possibility that they might have been able to get ransom or perhaps a prisoner swap. Was ransom ever a discussion? Did it ever come up? What did the Weinsteins hear from his captors to try to maybe do some bargaining or negotiating or was there nothing?

SIMPSON: It would have had - it would have had to have been the U.S. government that did the transaction. I mean, that would not be something that the Weinstein family -

BANFIELD: Did the captors ask for money?

SIMPSON: I don't know. I really don't know. That would be a question to be addressed to the Department of State or the Department of Defense or the CIA or whoever handles such things. But I don't know the answer to that.

BANFIELD: I can't - I just can't imagine what, you know, the Weinstein family is going through. This is just - you just - you just hope you never end up in these shoes.

SIMPSON: Well, it's -

BANFIELD: Are you going to have a chance to reach out to them? I know you've spoke to them about six months ago.

[12:29:49] SIMPSON: Of course. Of course. But I figure this morning, you know, they would have people all over them and whatever I have to say to them, you know, won't change with time. And what that would be was that they tried and I tried, although not in anything to the degree that they did, but it didn't work. And it makes it a lot worse that it's our government that killed him.

BANFIELD: All right. Ambassador Dan Simpson I'm sorry we're speaking under these circumstances. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

SIMPSON: Any time.

BANFIELD: Coming up, the other casualties of this air strike, the January killings of two very key figures both Al-Qaeda and both American. And now we find out months later.

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