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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Remaining New York Prison Escapee Captured, Now in Hospital; Supreme Court Rules on Lethal Injection Drug, EPA Emisisons Regulation, and Gerrymandering; Discussion of Rash of Fires at Predominantly Black Churches in Southeastern US

Aired June 29, 2015 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:30:34] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: And our breaking news as the captured New York inmate David Sweats condition has been upgraded.

He was critical, he is now serious. And the source close to the investigation tell CNN that he is talking to the authorities.

Sweat has told them apparently that the plan was for prison tailor Joyce Mitchell to pick him and Richard Matt up at the breakout spot. And then make for the Mexican border. A long drive but that's a big plan.

And the source says when Mitchell did not show up no wheels Sweat and Matt decided they had to improvise instead. They were apparently together until five days ago. And that's when Sweat on the right made a decision to leave his pal Matt on the left because he said Matt was slowing him down.

We also have news that the body of Richard Matt was found not only smelling of alcohol. But then also there was evidence that he was sick. So it makes perfect sense that he was slowing down his partner in crime. I won't say friend, there's no honor among thieves.

I want to bring in Jonathan Gilliam a Retired Former Navy SEAL and FBI Special Agent as well.

I got to ask you about this notion that he was slowing him down. I mean I don't think anybody assumes for a moment that a couple of killers are going to be true to each other. But is that surprise you that detail that he said, "You're too slow, I'm out."

JONATHAN GILLIAM, FORMER NAVY SEAL: It was a surprise they both didn't get sick first of all. But no, that doesn't surprise me at all.

Look they are in a survival circumstance this is in a T.V. show where they're, you know, bonded together so they can survive 21 days and get out of it.

These guys were running for their lives. And I think it makes perfect sense that you have two psychopaths that friendship only goes as deep as what can I use you for and then I'm out of here. BANFIELD: So real quickly take me to Sergeant Jay Cook he hero in this story.

He was by himself Jonathan, he was alone on patrol which -- first of all gets me Willy's knowing that there are desperate killers out there who would think nothing of taking a shot at one guy found at ATV or some kind of rebel unit.

Walk me to the thought process, he's got to make, when he got to beat on someone walking on the road, what do they have to do first and what do they have to do next?

GILLIAM: So, you know, as this officer, he is familiar with this area. This is a trooper that this is his area. He wasn't just a part of a team, he was actually an regular patrol.

So he's out there looking familiar with the area and see something that's not normal which is what officers do.

They look to see what's normal, what's not. This was not normal, he thought that he potentially recognized who this was, he gets out and he gives a verbal command. When Sweat doesn't react to that.

BANFIELD: Do you know what that command would be?

GILLIAM: Come over here.

BANFIELD: Stop.

GILLIAM: Stop what you're doing.

BANFIELD: Come here buddy.

GILLIAM: Put your hands up.

BANFIELD: ... I mean something simple as that.

GILLIAM: Could be something as simple as just stop where you're at. Put your hands in the air.

If a person doesn't react to that anywhere, there's something a little odd about that. If you're looking and there happens to be a fling felon in that area and somebody doesn't answer that and they fit that description automatically you know this is potentially the guy.

So then he starts running for cover in the tree line. Now what you have is a fling felon who intel has told you that he potentially can have a weapon. And he is moving to a position of cover which is a tree line.

So I think it's a tree line and has a weapon, he now has a dominant position over Officer Cook. So Cook has to take all of this into a count at the same time he knows if he goes in the trees, he is going to disappear.

BANFIELD: Let me ask you something, when Cook took him down and he sees he's felled, he approached him, he -- by himself.

GILLIAM: Sure.

BANFIELD: Presumably with no backup, maybe coming, but not there at that moment. That's going to be a very scary proposition because Sweat had a bag, Sweat had baggy clothing...

GILLIAM: Correct.

BANFIELD: Who knows what kind of fighter, he might have had on him. But because of really terrifying proposition, almost like that that the horror movies that he maybe down but he's faking it, he's going to take you out when you get near.

GILLIAM: Personally I think he, this trooper probably felt less endanger at that point. Then he does on every -- daily basis when he does a car stop.

I mean you have to realize, what you feel is not going to be what this trained office feels. His training kicks in at that point, he knows how to keep himself safe. And I'm sure his tactics were spot on, I mean his shots were spot on. So you know that he's a very tactically sound officer.

So I think this is a good learning point for all of America to see because if we were to put, if there was a film footage of this takedown and we put that side by side with what happened in South Carolina when a guy was shot in the back, you're going to see things that are very similar. But the totality of the circumstances was completely different.

[12:35:09] BANFIELD: Very different.

GILLIAM: These are the things that officers have to deal with and the decisions they have to make in a split second everyday.

BANFIELD: This guy is made of steel. I'm telling you, it was just a remarkable performance by Sergeant Jay Cook a true hero.

GILLIAM: And let's not forget that there was another officer that took out Matt as well with precision shots and a team that went in. All these 1,300 officers everyday were facing this fear, this danger everyday.

BANFIELD: I dare say it, I haven't heard a win (ph) toward sympathy for either of them. I'll be honest with you. How could you.

GILLIAM: All right, exactly.

BANFIELD: Jonathan Gilliam, thank you.

GILLIAM: You got it.

BANFIELD: Good to see as always.

Coming up next, the shot may arm for the death penalty. And that comes courtesy of the Supreme Court of the United States. Find out what's the nine said.

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BANFIELD: You may not have saved the biggest decision for the last. But the Supreme Court of United States wrapped up a historic term today with some pretty weighty decisions on pollution and capital punishment and political gerrymandering in a case from Oklahoma.

The justices decided to uphold the use of a lethal injection drug that inmates claim is cruel and unusual.

They ruled against the government attempt to regulate mercury and arsenic emissions from power plants.

And they also said that unelected outside panel absolutely can set boundaries of congressional district, taking that all-important power away from state legislatures.

Three big issues, one very important correspondent, it's CNN Pamela Brown who is on the steps of the Supreme Court. And Jeffrey Toobin here is with me as well our Senior Legal Analyst.

Pamela first to you, walk me to the lethal injection, that seemed to be really on the radar of a lot of people.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely and today the high court with the conservative majority Ashleigh ruled. But a controversial lethal injection drug that was used in the botches execution of an inmate in Oklahoma, Clayton Lockett does not violates the constitutions eighth amendment of cruel and unusual punishment.

[12:40:15] And this drug is suppose to render someone unconscious so that that person cannot feel pain in response, so there's a very fiery descent from Justice Breyer and Justice Sotomayor.

Justice Sotomayor says that this drug does oppose of essential risk and says that it is what may well be the chemical equivalent of being burned at the stake in a remarkable move today Ashleigh four justices weighed in on this case from the bench. But again upheld -- majority upheld the constitutionality of drug Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Oh that's -- such a thought the chemical equivalent of being burned at the stake. Fascinating.

Pamela, thank you for that.

I want to dig a little deeper on the big decision that came down on Friday with Jeffrey Toobin and that is the same sex ruling.

A lot of people said it's done, it's finished, see the shining sea (ph), same sex is legal and maybe by philosophy but not that practicality just yet.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Not yet there are few procedural hoops that resisting states can make plaintiffs jump through, there is something called the issuance of the mandate which the Supreme Court does as a matter of course after they release an opinion usually it takes less than a week in addition.

BANFIELD: But what is that?

TOOBIN: It's basically just the formal court order that says the opinion goes into effect.

BANFIELD: Yeah.

TOOBIN: No one almost so over pays any attention to it because it is...

BANFIELD: It is what it is.

TOOBIN: It's a matter of course, right. Exactly.

In the same way there have been stays issued in certain courts or requested in the fifth circuit court of appeals which covers most of the south which is where the most of the resistance is. Those courts may if the plaintiff -- if the states insist have to vacate stays that have been in effect.

But this all should take about a week.

BANFIELD: But they are digging in there here like in Texas and Mississippi and Louisiana, their government officials from governors down the Supreme Court justices at a state level have dug in and said "Oh, no, no, not until that federal panel gets together and actually makes this happen." But that's just perfunctory...

TOOBIN: It is perfunctory, it's procedural, it's going to happen. The more interesting complicated question is what's going in Texas in particular which is when individuals who work for the state don't want to participate in the same sex marriages, don't want to officiate, don't want to do the paper work.

What rights do they have to take themselves out of the process and what rights do people who want to get married have to have the government do their best.

BANFIELD: So this where we start hearing about the Religious Freedom Restoration Acts. And I think there's a new act in Texas that was called the Pastors Protection Act, and I'm not sure if I've got the right name for it, it's -- in one of the million pieces of paper.

But the affect is, protecting pastors from having to perform gay marriages in their churches if they don't want too. And protecting that local magistrate in the county from having the issue you're a license. Will they be able to do this in the face of the Supreme Court saying that it is the right of every American to get marry?

TOOBIN: Well let's be clear about one thing. The Supreme Court said nothing about pastors performing weddings in their houses of worship.

The Supreme Court could never tell religious figures of whom to marry, whom not to marry. That's completely outside of the power of the Supreme Court. The issue is what about the government bureaucracy. And here I think, I think it would be possible for individuals who have religious objections to refuse to participate as long as people who want to get married have a way of getting married in each county.

BANFIELD: Provide another magistrate.

TOOBIN: Right exactly.

BANFIELD: Pay the money, hire another guy.

TOOBIN: Exactly. So, you know, and there's a lot of excitement now. I think it's going to dive down.

BANFIELD: It'll settle up.

TOOBIN: And people are going to get married.

BANFIELD: All right Jeffrey Toobin.

TOOBIN: And then there will be more gay marriage as people say, there's just marriage.

BANFIELD: There's just marriage, right. As the Supreme Court said it's everybody's fundamental right under the constitution.

Jeffrey Toobin as always making it simple even though it's not, thank you, appreciate it.

Coming up next the spring of suspicious fires at the dominantly black churches across the south, is it vandalism, is this a hate crime over and over. Is it bad wiring and is it possibly all of the above.

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[12:47:58] BANFIELD: Breaking news, we have learned that a man from New Jersey has been arrested today on charges of conspiring to provide material support to, you guessed it ISIS. His name is Alaa Saadeh he is 23-years-old and he scheduled to make his first court appearance this afternoon at 2:30.

His alleged coconspirators his brother and a resident from Queens who was arrested on June 13th, so stay tune to this phase for more details on that.

The FBI and other law enforcement agencies are actively investigating a string of fires that predominantly black churches across several southern states.

In the past week six predominantly black congregations have suffered fire damage in Tallahassee Florida, Charlotte North Carolina, Macon Georgia and Knoxville Tennessee.

A church in South Carolina also caught fire and another one in Gibson County, Tennessee may have been caused by lightning. But according to the Southern Poverty Law Center at least three of the fires are believed to have been caused because of arson.

Joining me from our Washington Bureau is Justice Correspondent Evan Perez.

So are the feds looking into this and doing something a little more serious than just trying to figure out if it was bad wiring or lightning?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well Ashleigh, you know, there is a federal law that requires the ATF and the FBI to look into any suspicious fires at religious institution. So that's what that work here, that said I mean it's very it would be a heck of a coincidence for all of these things to be happening all within a week.

And so that's why the federal investigators are involved. I'll go through a few of the fires because there is some that as you said have been ruled to be accidental.

But let's start with the one in Charlotte, in the Charlotte area Briar Creek it's house and a building that is -- that house is a an African- American congregation of predominantly African-American congregation as well as two Nepalis congregations.

And in that case they've already ruled that it is arson. And they're investigating it to see what exactly was it work there.

[12:50:02] There's one in Tallahassee that happened also in the past week. And that one appeared to have been an electrical fire Ashleigh.

There's one in Macon Georgia where a church an old church on the property was vandalized and perhaps someone set it on fire to cover up the vandalism.

In Tennessee, there's a couple of them. One of them you mentioned was believed to be caused by lightning. And another one is also believed to be caused by vandalism.

Again, something that the FBI and ATF are looking into, simply because in light of everything that has been on going on in the South there is tremendous concern that, that perhaps at least some of these might be linked.

BANFIELD: All right, Evan Perez, live for us and I want to go back to South Carolina for a moment if I can because the Confederate flag is backed up and flying on the ground of the South Carolina State capitol.

There you see it being hoisted. This after an activist identified as 30-year-old, Bree Newsome, climbed right up there and took it down.

Saturday morning, she went up that pole. She grabbed that flag. She removed it. She and another person were then arrested and charged with defacing a monument.

In the meantime, relatives and friends are saying farewell to the eight of nine victims killed in that that Church shooting in Charleston.

They're returning to Mother Emanuel, AME, from Myra Thompson. Myra was 59-years-old and she was leading the bible class when on white supremacist, Dylan Roof, open fire on the group.

Police say he admitted that he killed the nine members including the pastor, a state senator, the Reverend Clements Pickney.

President Obama eulogized the pastor at the College of Charleston of Friday afternoon.

The last funeral for a 74-year-old Reverend Daniel Simons is scheduled for Tuesday.

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[12:55:38] BANFIELD: And breaking news to bring your way, once again, we have just learned that a man from New Jersey has been arrested in the charges are conspiring to provide material support to ISIS.

23-year-old, Alaa Saadeh is scheduled to make his first court appearance this afternoon at 2:30 and that is a federal charge. He's got alleged coconspirators as well. But the Fed say, "We're in on this." They include his brother and another resident from Queens who is arrested back on June the 13th.

So again, breaking news, another, one of our own, apparently arrested in some kind of scheme to help out ISIS.

Carrying on with other news. Three days after a massacre at a beach resort in Tunisia, the government says, it made several arrests from a network supporting the gunman.

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BANFIELD: As you can probably tell from the shaking, this is not being shot by the perpetrators. This has been shot by someone who is there and witnessing this and possibly running for his life.

A cellphone video of Friday's rampage were at least 38 people were killed, most of them British, German, and French vacationers. The shooter died and ISIS has claimed responsibility for it. The investigation still continues.

I've got new developments as well in the Baltimore riot's case. The federal authorities have now said that they have got arrest warrant for what would be the first federal arrest in the Baltimore riot.

Raymond Carter is wanted for his alleged role in the arson at the looted CVS store which was the epicenter of the disturbances following the death of Freddie Gray. They've got the picture up. The wanted poster's out. And I dare say it is probably not the last one that you will see. There was ample evidence and video that they are sorting through. So continue to watch to see if that changes.

Investigators are trying to figure out what caused an unmanned SpaceX rocket to explode. This happened on Sunday just after take off from Cape Canaveral, Florida.

It was headed for the international space station and it was carrying a lot like a water filtration system for the astronauts who are up there in orbit.

It was carrying pounds of pounds of food. It was also carrying experiments for student and it had a job too to bring back all the trash and unneeded from the space stations so back to the drawing board.

I want to get you a quick look at the markets right now. The Dow is down 235 points resting at 17,711, not a great day for the Dow because all of this as we wait on Greece. Tomorrow is big day. It is the deadline for that bail out.

Greece has a lot of money and it have to make a big decisions on whether it's going to accept the package that the Europeans are sending their way or going it on their own and sending reverberations right around the globe so keep an eye on the market. It matters folks that maybe Greece but it matters to the entire globe.

Thanks for watching everyone. My colleague Wolf Blitzer, takes it from here.