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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Protesters Brawl Outside Trump Event; Trump's "Woman Card" Comment Sparks Backlash; Oklahoma Court Says No Crime Committed Against Unconscious Girl In Sodomy Law Controversy; Preview Of United Shades Of America's Look At San Quentin. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired April 29, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:32:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: 3:00 p.m. Eastern today. Donald Trump getting ready to address the California Republican convention, it's happening near San Francisco. Something else is happening there too. Police are getting very busy hoping, they say, that they are not going to be a replay of this.

(INDISCERNIBLE)

BANFIELD: This was the scene last night. Costa Mesa, California, all these after Donald Trump packed out a massive outdoor event center. Standard Trump speech on the inside but the outside, people were pretty much going bananas. At least one man in somewhere in the middle of this huge melee ended up needing paramedics. Riot police actually showed up on horseback. 20 people are arrested. Trump supporters shouted and scrapped with the people who were opposed to the GOP front-runner. Many of whom shouting racist and others waving Mexican flags.

Joining us now is our CNN Political Reporter MJ Lee, and also CNN Senior Politcal reporter Nia-Malika Henderson.

MJ if I could just and we'll start with you, we're just few hours away from another Trump speech in California. I'm not sure how California, generally views Donald Trump. There's a lot of immigrants in California. Not many of them like what he has to say about immigrants. What are we looking at if we're looking at the protest story at 3:00?

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, I mean, this was another very chaotic scene at the Donald Trump rallies. And think this really speaks two things. One is that Donald Trump really have become the Republican front runner, and I think his critics and these protesters are contending with the fact he likely will be the Republican nominee and want to make their voices heard.

The second point, I think, confirms what a polarizing figure Donald Trump is, especially when it comes to comments about race and immigration. I've been to many of these Donald Trump rallies and the majority of the protesters who come out to these Trump rallies are, they're taking issue with what he says about certain ethnic minority groups. I think has said in the past about Muslims and, you know, putting on a temporary ban on Muslims from entering the country. So, I think as we go forward, the question and the concern for the

Republican party and party leaders is how will all of this play out heading into the Republican convention this summer even if there is not a contested convention, he is such a polarizing figure that if he is a Republican nominee, I think the party has to get prepared. And prepare for, you know, the fact that this might be the kind of scene we could see when we head to the Republican convention in a couple of weeks.

BANFIELD: MJ, stand by if you will. I want to bring in Nia-Malika Henderson.

Nia-Malika, I know you've been watching the program up at time. You probably saw what was just live in Indiana with the Mike Pence endorsement. But I want to tell you something else that's been going on in Indiana. The Trump protests have happened amidst a lot of attacks he's been throwing out about Hillary Clinton saying she's playing the woman card. And now all of the card is in the zeitgeist.

[12:35:17] Jane Sanders has something to say about that. On NewDay and I want to play for you that moment.

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JANE SANDERS, WIFE OF SEN. BERNIE SANDERS: I think it's ridiculous. Is he playing the man card? He certainly seems to be in the attitude of men are gruff. He's being so sexist. He does attack powerful women, intelligent women, and it's not going to get him anywhere. He's got that base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Nia-Malika it's -- Look, I've been in this country as an immigrant myself for 21 years and I have known since day one from all the political reporting, you need women. It started with soccer moms. That was my first entree to how critical that voting bloc is. Donald Trump is no dummy. Why is he doing this?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, it certainly a continuation of what we've seen from him so far, which is double down on the strategy that's gotten him here. He talked about Hillary Clinton playing the woman card before but I think it was a spoken that last the press conference he had because he had that Hillary Clinton wouldn't be where she is, wouldn't get five percent of the vote if she were a man. So that certainly perked up people's ears and then he doubled down again.

You're right, I mean, women are the most important of voting bloc. In 2012, they were 53 percent of the electorate. And of course we know that Mitt Romney didn't do so well. He lost women by 11 to 12 points versus Barack Obama. What is true though is that Republican presidential candidates tend to do well with white women. Mitt Romney won by white women by 56 percent.

And I think the problem that Donald Trump is having now that that group seems to prefer Hillary Clinton. I mean that's why Hillary Clinton is beating Donald Trump in these polls because she is doing well with white women and whites overall, same thing with Bernie Sanders. And if you look at his approval ratings among women, they're very low. Donald Trump, his disapproval rate I think is something like 73 percent. And Mitt Romney's back around this same time was about 13 points lower than that. So he's got a problem. Listen, I think in this immediate race if you look at the Republican party electorate, I think he'll do fine in terms of talking about the women card but in the general election, a problem for him.

BANFIELD: Well, and I think that may be why we saw Hillary Clinton coming out with this sort of electronic campaign showing an actual woman card that's very funny. It's a take on the metro card where she had ...

HENDERSON: Right.

BANFIELD: ... probably 10 every New Yorker knows it's the biggest pain in the butt. But here's the woman card that's she's putting out the official, Hillary, Hillary for America woman card and there's a donation button beside it. So, maybe she, among supporters in the Democratic party can play and make a lot of hay of that and do well with it. But in Indiana, and I don't mean to put you on the spot because I know it's tricky to figure out what the polling picture is in Indiana. But the best of your knowledge, Republican Women in Indiana. How do you think they're going to play for Donald Trump?

HENDERSON: You know, I think he's got the advantage. He's got the momentum. Republican women seem to like Donald Trump, maybe not as much as Republican men. But there hasn't been any polling to indicate so far that he has taken a hit among Republican women. So I think he's got ahead of steam going into Indiana, all the polling because he's got something of an edge but who knows now with Mike Pence coming out, we'll see how that plays. But listen, Donald Trump has been successful. I think the question when people talk about is he going to pivot to be more presidential, part of that is he going to pivot to be a general election candidate in trying to grow his base? So far, we had seen very little sign of that.

BANFIELD: Nia-Malik Henderson. Thank you so much, good to see you.

HENDERSON: Good to see you.

BANFIELD: Coming up next. Sometimes we scratch our heads when we see certain rulings come down from a court. This might be one of them because a court has tossed out a sexual assault case, because the 16- year-old victim was drunk. I'm going to repeat that in case you thought I misspoke, sexual assault charge tossed out because the victim, 16, was drunk. That the explanation surprisingly makes sense. Where do you come in? That's the key. We'll tell you next.

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[12:43:47] I'm going to use some language that may not be good for kids here. But it's critical for he kids what I'm about to tell you about. Forcing a woman to have oral sex in Oklahoma may not be a crime if the

victim is unconscious or drunk. You heard me right. An Oklahoma court has now up held a ruling not to bring charges of forcible oral sodomy, that's what they call it in the statute, against a defendant citing the wording of the law. Just the technical statute and all of this goes back to a 2014 case where this 16-year-old girl said a 17-year- old classmate forced her to performing oral sex on him after drinking and smoking pot in a park. So, where does the law come into this? The actual language:

In Oklahoma, a rape can occur when the victim is drunk or unconscious. But that's a rape, that's a rape. The law does not have a provision that applies to the oral penetration. Sorry again for the word, but it's critical in this case. And that's why the court said it made the ruling thus, "We will not, in order to justify prosecution of a person for an offense, enlarge a statute beyond the fair meaning of its language".

I think it's fair to say this ruling has sparked, well, minds are blown, outraged among critics including the prosecutor who claim that this puts the blame on the victim.

[12:45:12] I want to discuss this controversial ruling with CNN Analyst and Criminal defense Paul Callan and Julie Rendelman. She's the criminal defense attorney and a former New York prosecutor. And as a former prosecutor, I'm sure you're enraged when you hear something like this but at the same time, you completely understand that this is the fault of the lawmakers who didn't make it clear. And if there is anything we know about law, the devil is in the details.

JULIE RENDELMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it's easy to pick on the appellate court for making this decision.

BANFIELD: Insensitive.

RENDELMAN: You could say anything but the problem is within the law and for some reason, Oklahoma decided to distinguish between rape and an oral sodomy. I'm not really sure exactly why they did. I don't know if there was a mistake made or an oversight but for whatever reason, because they did that, we're kind of stuck in this situation.

BANFIELD: This is where this 16-year-old ends up standing. So, the question for you Paul is, are we just not there yet? And by the way Oklahoma is one of the 50 states in my last count, that has state laws that maybe need to be looked at and another eye and have the prosecutors to stop getting creative in how they charge. But to say, Hey, legislators, fix this is a mess. And this exact thing could happen.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, absolutely. I think a lot of people forget how much times have changed. Before 1980, you used to have to have forcible compulsion to prove a rape case. It wasn't the idea that we now have that, unless both sides consent to sexual conduct, that's criminal.

So the laws have been rewritten and changed and a lot of lo loopholes have been left. But in this case, the appellate court did the right thing. And by the way this is not a gender argument, there two women of the five members of the highest criminal court in Oklahoma and they agreed completely that the law that the prosecutor used didn't apply. He said that this was forcible sodomy.

And just to give you an example. It would be like charging armed robbery in a situation where somebody didn't use a gun, all right? There's a charge available. And now, in this case it would have been sexual battery. Ten years in prison for sexual battery which just requires touching without consent. But the prosecutor blew it. He charged first rape which didn't apply and, then he charged forcible sodomy and there was no force. So, he walked away and didn't use a charge that would have put the defendant in jail potentially.

BANFIELD: If someone's listening out there and they've got kids in college, male or female, once again, Paul you're spot on. This is not about gender, it's not about victims being girls either. If there are people out there who think that is crazy, I do not want this to happen in my state, should they write to their congressmen and say, this is insane that we -- or should we start looking for a sponsorship of bills that can amend outdated legislation?

RENDELMAN: Sure. I mean, again, one wonders what was going on in Oklahoma, because I have to be honest, how is this the first time we're discussing this?

BANFIELD: It is 2016, right?

RENDELMAN: Exactly ...

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RENDELMAN: This is the first time the case happened it was a 16-year- old and 17-year-old and oral sodomy in which the victim was intoxicated and unconscious?

BANFIELD: Well, guess what?

RENDELMAN: That I find it hard to believe it.

BANFIELD: This is the first case that made really, really big headlines where people who are watching, if you're from Oklahoma, call your congressmen and your legislators and say, I like it and if you don't like it, and nobody should like it, call them. That's you folks spoke, that's the way it goes. You know, what other state might be the same as well, it's hard to say how unique everybody is but often behind the times.

Julie Rendelman, thank you. Paul Callan, as always too.

RENDELMAN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: CNN is going behind the scenes, and it's one of those scenes you probably wouldn't go behind unless CNN was doing it for you. We're going to take you into one of America's most infamous prisons. The toughest one around, in fact, and you'll see what it's actually like day-to-day when you are behind the other side and saying, not fun. That's next.

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[12:51:59] BANFIELD: You probably don't need me to tell you that America's prison numbers are in the millions. And to most people, that's what they are. They're just numbers. But CNN has a different take. We've got a new series called United Shades of America. And this guy who I love, W. Kamau Bell is doing the series. And in these particular episode that's coming up, he meets the real people inside one of America's most notorious and dangerous prisons, San Quentin.

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W.KAMAU BELL: And to ask you, how did you end up in San Quentin sir?

JUAN HAINES, INMATE SAN AT SAN QUENTIN PRISON: I was arrested in 1996 for a series of bank robberies in San Diego.

BELL: You don't seem like a bank robber.

HAINES: Right. I robbed a bank before and the lady said, are you serious?

BELL: How did you do it? What was your process?

HAINES: The FBI gave me the moniker of the Brown Bag Bandit.

BELL: You got a moniker. You got a name. I always get some of these.

HAINES: Here's is it, that's cool, I still got the bag.

BELL: No, it's not. No. OK.

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HAINES: OK,

BELL: OK. OK.

HAINES: So I have something like this, right. And I just write in, like, red marker. I have a bomb. Put the money in the bag and she just opened it up and put in a bunch of 50s and 20s. And then I walked out of the bank.

BELL: Wow. Who was the person you were back then, who decided to rob a bank? How did you get to that decision, how did you get to the place?

HAINES: It's a part of that process that I look into myself to try to figure that out because I don't see myself as a bank robber.

BELL: Yeah.

HAINES: Why was I doing that? One of the tellers that I robbed came in and testified against me. And was crying on the stand and told me that terrified her whole life and right there, I was like, you know, it kind of hit knowing that I just ruined this woman's life because of what I did, you know.

BELL: Yeah.

HAINES: But I couldn't process that the way I'm processing it right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And Kamau joins us live now. By the way, I just want to say, I'm glad you made it back from your KKK visit so that you could do episode two.

BELL: You, my wife, my family, my friends, yes.

BANFIELD: I saw the look in your eye, my friend. Oh, man. So to this episode, what I love about what we just saw apart from you're in it, is that guy was honest. Every prison that I've ever interviewed and the prison guy's is like, I'm innocent dude. I didn't do it but he was fully up front about what he did. Were they all like that?

BELL: Yeah. Everybody I met. I'm sure there are people in there, I'm sure there a few in prison who are there for the wrong reasons and maybe didn't do it. But the guys I talked to admitted that they did the thing there and for. They just question about how long they need to be in jail. That's the big question, it was like they've been in there for more than 20 years. Many of them, many of them did something in the early 20s and now in the 40s and they go I've done restitution, I've worked on myself. When do I get out of here?

BANFIELD: Any changes coming for any of the guys you meet so that the revision of guidelines has been coming right from the White House on down.

BELL: Now, we met one guy who's thought he had a parole date coming up. But everybody else in there, it's we don't like to parole people in this country so and especially, ironically, the guy who actually said he was up for parole is the one white guy I talked to. So, that just begin into racial disparity there.

[12:55:10] BANFIELD: I always heard you never ask an inmate the question, what are you in for? Especially for your not an inmate but were you free to do that? I mean, could you get -- if that's the question that you wanted?

BELL; I was told I could ask whoever I want to but still scary to say, why are you in prison, you know?

BANFIELD: Yes.

BELL: But those guys have really, they've done work on themselves. They're more self-actualized than any people I know on the outside. And they're very open about what they did, what they did wrong. They were remorseful. They know they shouldn't have done it, and they know that, that they feel like they've worked on themselves in there, and a lot of them, like, If you showed up in my neighborhood, I'd be happy to see you and a good person with good skills and I would enjoy to talk to you. So, it's very sad in that way.

BANFIELD: It's also very strange for me to say I am glad after episode one, watching you with the cross lighting that you're in a safer environment, San Quentin,

BELL: Yes, yeah.

BANFIELD: But I am glad to see you're doing great. I can't wait for the whole menu of your season. So, thanks Kamau. It's nice to have to have you at CNN.

BELL: Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.

BANFIELD: Big plug for you here. Be sure to watch Kamau during a new episode of "United Shades of America" it starts this Sunday 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Hey, thanks for watching "Legal View," everyone and thank you, Kamau as well for being on "Legal View." If you want to continue watching CNN, you can do that, we courage it. You can also go and watch us live online. CNN.com. And I encourage you if you do nothing else today, stick where you are because Wolf starts after a quick break.

Have agreed weekend.

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