Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

NYC and New Jersey Bombing Suspect Captured. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 19, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: OK.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, just one of the questions left. Bob Baer, everyone, thanks so much.

CNN's special coverage continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We're going to continue this hour with the breaking news. The quick and violent end to a manhunt arising from a 36-hour spate of bomb attacks, and bomb scares in two states, New York and New Jersey. But the capture just last hour of that man, Ahmed Khan Rahami, is still just the beginning of this investigation. Later this hour, New York's mayor, the police chief, the U.S. attorney and the assistant director of the FBI in the state of New York are coming out to brief us and, of course, we're going to bring it to you live. All of the latest details related to this arrest and what might be future arrests.

But just minutes ago, the president himself interrupting his work with the U.N. General Assembly in New York to salute the first responders and to rally all Americans never to succumb to fear.

I want to get straight to the most breaking details with our correspondent, CNN senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin joins me now from the scene where a police shootout happened all within the last half hour in Linden, New Jersey. CNN's justice correspondent Evan Perez is also here breaking a lot of details from the federal level as well.

Drew, first to you. A shoot-out, two officers hurt, the suspect himself in an ambulance. Take me through it.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: And the information is unofficial from this point because the police have not yet briefed us, Ashleigh. But what we're piecing together from ear witnesses and eyewitnesses is that sometime this morning a person appeared to be sleeping in the vestibule of a bar down the street. It's about four blocks from us. Apparently an officer recognized that person as possibly being - looking like the suspect, approached, and that's when a shoot-out from what we begin began. The postman who was delivering mail said he heard two pops, and then a bunch of pops, maybe a dozen or so. That's when we believe the shoot-out actually occurred.

We do have video, as you have been showing your audience, of the suspect on a stretcher. We don't know the extent of the police injuries that were involved, but we do know that this suspect was taken into custody and he was taken into custody here in Linden, New Jersey. We're only about two or three miles from the other location in Elizabeth, New Jersey.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, I just want to check in and - because I -- we're getting information that one officer was struck in the hand, Drew. One officer struck in the vest. We don't know if both of them were transported to the hospital, but we did have some information saying some officers, apparently, according to the mayor of one of the towns involved in this -

GRIFFIN: That's right.

BANFIELD: That some officers were transported to the hospital.

The people who were around you, has anyone been able to give you an account of what this looked like when they wheeled that suspect, bloodied, and seemingly very conscious, into that ambulance after that shoot-out?

GRIFFIN: We haven't been get - gotten close enough to find an actual eyewitness to that event. Supposedly the owner of the bar I mentioned lived across the street and watched it take place, but we have not been able to reach that man yet. We're only getting basically witnesses on the periphery of this zone and the police have been very tight-lipped. They also have not been able to tell us anything about the officers involved, although just by the demeanor and the experience of covering these things, it appears that the officers, thankfully, were not injured severely in any way. Let's hope that is true, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: OK. And, Drew, just to clear up where our information is coming from at this time, the mayor of Elizabeth, New Jersey, Chris Bollwage, has told us that the officers were shot, one of them in the vest, one of them shot in the hand, and then the deputy chief of police - or, excuse me, deputy chief of the Linden Fire Department, Larry Kolesa, tells us that three people were transported to hospital after this image. So what you're seeing right now is the suspect, Ahmad Khan Rahami, on the ground amidst this arrest, presumably after the shoot-out. The officer, I can't tell from that image, where they are, but with three transported to hospital we saw the suspect being loaded into an ambulance and clearly two officers who were injured may have been the two others who were transported to the hospital.

Drew, stand by for a minute.

You know, Evan, you've been working source that have given you just a remarkable account. I think we have to clearly say how fast this has happened.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It is.

Thirty-six hours from the moment the first sniff of a - of a problem, to that man being loaded bloodied into an ambulance. Take me to how this happened. What's the chain of connection to identifying him and getting him?

[12:05:02] PEREZ: Well, first of all, one of the things that the authorities figured out sometime yesterday is that they believed that he was behind all of the incidents that we're talking about. That includes the first incident in Seaside Park, New Jersey, where the bomb went off. Only one of three bombs actually went off. And then later that evening, in Chelsea, where the first bomb goes off, injures 29 people. Second device found four blocks away. That is not - that device did not go off, luckily, before it was - before it was - before it was discovered. But sometime yesterday, in the afternoon, according to sources that have spoken to us, both me and Shimon Prokupecz, our crime and justice producer, they decided - they determined that they knew who this was based on fingerprints, based on a cell phone that was recovered from that device that did not go off. That device proved to be very key in trying to figure out who this was, who the bomb maker was, who was associated with this device.

And so that's what finally led authorities to New Jersey, to Elizabeth, New Jersey. They were sitting on that place yesterday. We kept talking to officials. They kept telling us that they were watching, they were waiting to see whether or not they could figure out who was there. And finally they determined this morning that they could not find him and they put out that BOLO with the photograph -

BANFIELD: The be on the lookout.

PEREZ: To be on the lookout -

BANFIELD: Yes.

PEREZ: Of that - of that suspect. We're told that after they put that out, just in - within hour - within an hour, they were able to get a tip from some there who thought they saw him, and that's when the police converged there. The FBI were on the scene there and they were able to make this arrest. Luckily, nobody else, it appears, was severely injured. The suspect appears to have a gunshot, according to that video that we're showing right there, and he's now being treated.

Urgently what they want to do is, Ashleigh, they want to question him. They want to figure out if there's anybody else behind - behind this, whether anybody was associated with this. We do know that they had isolated some video from the events on Saturday that made them think that perhaps there might be some other people involved.

BANFIELD: Is this the video with the duffel bag? Is that the -

PEREZ: This is the video with the duffel bag.

BANFIELD: OK. So, just to be clear, so we can run anybody who may have missed this, because this has been very fast, the genesis to this capture. An explosion going off in Chelsea. After Seaside Heights, New Jersey, in the morning, an explosion had gone off. Video, surveillance video from around Chelsea showed there was a man who was pulling a duffel bag in both of the New York locations. One was an explosion. Another was an unexploded ordnance.

PEREZ: right.

BANFIELD: A pressure cooker bomb that had been discovered by passersby. But in both of those locations, several blocks apart, there was an image of a man pulling a duffel bag that looked a lot like the man on that gurney. He was the person who law enforcement pushed out in terms of that video to say -

PEREZ: Right. Exactly.

BANFIELD: This is who we're looking for in connection with those, correct?

PEREZ: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. They were able to get some video from some of the business there near the 27th Street location, particularly produced some very good video showing someone wheeling this duffel bag, leaving it behind. Someone else, a couple of other people, appeared to come to this - to this duffel bag, take out what was in it and what is left behind is a bag with this pressure cooker bomb. It may well be that the people who took that out may have disturbed it and that's why it didn't go off.

But let - let me just tell you, though, both of those devices, the one that did exploded on 23rd Street in Chelsea and the one that did not explode in on 27th Street, both of them contained ball bearings, BBs. These were lethal devices. These could have killed people. The one on 23rd Street that did explode, luckily somehow managed to be underneath - underneath a metal dumpster and that might have, frankly, dented the - the impact.

BANFIELD: That vented the impact upward.

PEREZ: The impact of the -

BANFIELD: Had it vented outward -

PEREZ: Right. Exactly.

BANFIELD: That could have killed a lot of people. Boston - Boston Marathon style too.

PEREZ: It could have killed a lot of the - as it - as it was, you had 29 people who were injured, but none of them seriously according to the authorities.

BANFIELD: And some of the experts - I'll be frank with you, are saying that many of the injury could actually come from secondary debris as opposed to the ordnance that exploded.

PEREZ: Right. It shattered - there were windows shattered. BANFIELD: Right.

PEREZ: There were cars that had -

BANFIELD: Sure.

PEREZ: Shards of - pieces of metal in it.

BANFIELD: Yes.

PEREZ: There was some serious damage there and still being cleaned up.

BANFIELD: Just quickly, Evan, let me interrupt you only for a moment, because with the image on the right side of the screen, there's still so much that we want to know about what happened in this takedown, in this shootout in Lindon, New Jersey.

And with me on the phone right now, Anthony Moseita Moregula (ph).

I hope I got your name right, Anthony. If you could tell me everything you can about what you witnessed when this happened.

MOSEITA MOREGULA, WITNESSED SUSPECT BEING TAKEN INTO CUSTODY (via telephone): Man, it was crazy. It was like literally the only way I could describe it was like a scene in a movie. Like I was just driving on Elizabeth Ash (ph), you know, coming off break from school and out of nowhere I just seen shots rang out, you know. And my little cousin, in the passenger's seat, and I just seen them shots, you know, and it was - I didn't know what to do. Like, I just seen like five, six, seven shots go off. Mainly from the officer. I didn't really get a - that much of a good glimpse of the suspect, but I seen a lot of shots go off and my first instinct was just to get out of there. But it was crazy.

[12:10:08] BANFIELD: And when you say you saw six or seven shots go off, you're saying from the officers? Was it one officer that you saw or several officers shooting?

MOREGULA: I just seen - I seen one officer that was actually shooting. And I seen a couple in the back, you know, coming up. But it was - it was too much going on at once. Honestly, my first instinct was to get out of there, but I did see the initial standoff and the first couple shots ring out.

BANFIELD: OK. In that initial standoff, what were you actually seeing? Were you seeing police standing off with a man who was armed or were they shooting into a location you couldn't identify? Exactly what did it look like?

MOREGULA: They were shooting by - by a little bar. Like, by the automotive on Elizabeth (ph) (INAUDIBLE). I just seen officers taking cover and just shooting. They were just shooting at - I didn't - I didn't get a glimpse of the actual suspect, but I seen the shooting, you know what I'm saying? It was like -

BANFIELD: Yes, I did - MOREGULA: It was literally like a movie.

BANFIELD: Did it look as though they were shooting into the bar or outside of the bar? Were you able to tell?

MOREGULA: Oh, they were outside of the bar. They were outside of the bar shooting.

BANFIELD: Were they shooting at something outside the bar or were they shooting into the vestibule of the bar?

MOREGULA: They were shooting - see, like, the angle I was in, I was looking at it from afar. But I was like looking at it from the outside. So I seen them shooting outside into each other. You know what I'm saying?

BANFIELD: Did you - sure. Did you see any of the officers hit? Because there's a report of two officers being hit.

MOREGULA: I seen an officer fall down. But he got right back up. He - he probably got hit. I really couldn't tell you. But I - I seen an officer actually fall off impact.

BANFIELD: I'm happy to hear your voice that you're OK and I'm glad you got out of there. Moseita Moregula, thank you very much. I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us.

We're going to squeeze in a quick break. We're gathering more intelligence as we speak. Another eyewitness lining up to tell us what he saw, birds-eye view out of an office window. That's when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:15:50] BANFIELD: I want to remind you that as we continue our breaking news coverage on what appears to be the arrest and shoot-out right there on the right-hand side of your screen and if you can see on the sidewalk, the left-hand side of your screen it's presumed, this is Ahmed Khan Rahami, the man who there has been an all-out be on the lookout alert to find today in light of three bomb incidents in New Jersey and in New York. This is the man that they've been seeking since yesterday. Yesterday late in the day apparently having identified Ahmad Khan Rahami, but it took several hours after the first explosion in Seaside, New Jersey, three different incidents.

And there you have it on your screen, some exclusive video from WABC in New York capturing the moments after a shoot-out where a bloodied Rahami can be seen on a stretcher being loaded into an ambulance and carted off to a hospital. What happens to him now will be intrigue to say the least. What information he may have about potential others, or if he acted alone. Right now, the immediate need would be medical for him. After that, the likelihood of those handcuffs coming off him anytime soon, remote to say the least.

There are a couple of things I want to update you, about 14, 13 minutes from now we're expecting the New York City mayor, Bill de Blasio, to come out and brief us live on the details of perhaps this capture, what led to it. He'll be joined by the brand new police commissioner of New York, who thought today was just going to be his first day on the job. His swearing in planned for just over an hour ago in New York. Instead, this is his first day on the job.

They'll also be joined by the FBI assistant director, Bill Sweeney Jr., and also the U.S. attorney, Preet Bharara. So once we get that group all, you know, aligned and ready to go on the live mikes, they're expected to do so at the bottom of the hour, we're going to bring you that live news conference and hopefully a lot more details.

In the meantime, another witness to the shooting now joining me on the phone. Peter Balinksas joins me from New Jersey.

Peter, I understand that you could witness what went on in the shootout from your office window. Can you tell me what you saw?

PETER BALINKSAS: I heard gunfire outside my window to the left. And then I saw a man walking down the street with a gun in his hand. A police car pulled up across the street from me, and the man fired about six shots at the police car.

BANFIELD: What happened then?

BALINKSAS: Then more police came and he went down the street. It's kind of a residential area. Shots were fired I guess at him. And that was all I could see. Then they went out of the - my view.

BANFIELD: Were you able to see if he made contact? If he shot at that police cruiser that pulled up beside him? Did he - did he make contact that you could see with the officers? Were they hurt?

BALINKSAS: No officers were hurt in my general area.

BANFIELD: So he - he shot and then he ran off from those officers who had pulled up beside him?

BALINKSAS: He kind of walked down the street. He wasn't really running.

BANFIELD: Walking?

BALINKSAS: He really wasn't running. He was walking down the street with the gun in his hand.

BANFIELD: Peter, have you been able to see the images on the news right now of the man being loaded into the ambulance?

BALINKSAS: No, I don't.

BANFIELD: Can you describe the look of the man that you saw who was holding the gun and walking down the sidewalk, who fired at the officers?

BALINKSAS: All I remember was he appeared to be short and stocky and either - I said either white or Hispanic. BANFIELD: Did he have a fairly significant beard?

BALINKSAS: I did not notice that. When the gunfire started, I took cover.

BANFIELD: Could you tell what he was wearing? Could you remember what he was wearing at the time?

BALINKSAS: I really don't know what he was wearing. It wasn't the -

BANFIELD: Did you think - sorry, go ahead again.

BALINKSAS: It wasn't a suit.

[12:20:00] BANFIELD: It wasn't a suit. Did you see the - did you see the secondary shootout after he fired on the first -

BALINKSAS: No, I didn't. that - that was down the block from me. The police car (INAUDIBLE) and -

BANFIELD: Were you able to see -

BALINKSAS: It's out of my sight.

BANFIELD: Got it. So you saw the - your view was the first shootout, and then they moved on to a secondary location?

BALINKSAS: My view was (INAUDIBLE) - yes, with the police car.

BANFIELD: How far away do you know the second location to be from the location that you witnessed?

BALINKSAS: Oh, probably a quarter mile, maybe.

BANFIELD: You got that far?

BALINKSAS: It's out of my sight. It's probably a quarter mile or less.

BANFIELD: Let me ask you, Peter, what did the officer do after they were fired upon, and he began to walk away slowly?

BALINKSAS: They returned fire. And as more police came, they eventually followed him down the street.

BANFIELD: It seems odd. They returned fire to a man who was slowly walking, but he didn't appear to be hit? He didn't appear to be assuaged at all from his movements?

BALINKSAS: Not - not from where I was.

BANFIELD: Were the officers taking cover behind the cruiser, or were they trying to escape his gunfire?

BALINKSAS: (INAUDIBLE) there was (INAUDIBLE) taking cover behind the cruiser.

BANFIELD: Can you repeat that?

BALINKSAS: They were taking cover behind the cruiser.

BANFIELD: It's just remarkable. But you think you saw him fire about four to six times at them?

BALINKSAS: Absolutely. He raised his gun and fired directly at the police cruiser. Apparently it hit the cruiser, or it would have went through my store.

BANFIELD: Were you - did you go down to the site afterwards and seen the aftermath or have you been inside the whole time?

BALINKSAS: They - they have told me to stay inside. There's still a large police presence here.

BANFIELD: Peter Balinksis is on the telephone with us, helping us to sort of sort out the series of events that led to the images you have on your screen right now. What appears to be the capture of Ahmad Khan Rahami.

Mr. Balinksis was in his office and through his business window was able to see the first incident of a shootout with the police. It appears that a police cruiser pulled up alongside the suspect, who was brandishing a gun on the sidewalk, and the gunfire began. The suspect, according to Mr. Balinksis, says firing at police. The police taking cover behind the cruiser, firing back. Unbelievably, the suspect slowly walking away, perhaps even a quarter mile away, before other responding officers engaged in gunfire with this suspect. You can see blood on his right arm. Can't see any other injuries. He certainly doesn't seem to be in a great deal of distress as they get ready to load him into the ambulance and take him for, you know, for treatment.

We do know two police officers were also taken in for treatment. One of them apparently hit in the hand by a gunshot. The other one's vest was struck. So hopefully those injuries are not terribly serious. That information coming to us via the mayor of Elizabeth, New Jersey, telling us about the two officers being injured. And, of course, the Linden, New Jersey, fire department deputy chief telling us that three people in total had been taken to the hospital. Presumably one of them, the man you're seeing, the suspect, loaded into the ambulance to be taken off.

I just want to give you some news as I'm getting it and so you'll have to bear with me. Apparently the suspect has been taken to University Hospital of Newark, New Jersey. A spokesperson there telling us that he was brought into that hospital. That one officer was also admitted, but to Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital in Rahway, New Jersey. Unclear - see where the other officer was taken. Let me see if I can gather that. Ah. One officer was taken to University Hospital at Newark, along with the suspect. And one officer was admitted to Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital in Rahway, New Jersey. So it's always intriguing when there's an officer who engages in gunfire and ends up at the same hospital with the person who was shooting, but that seems to be the case. We don't know which officer that is that was taken to the same hospital as the suspect, but we do know one was shot in the hand. One shot in the vest. That coming from the mayor of Elizabeth, New Jersey.

I have a couple of people who can help to sort through this. CNN intelligence and security analyst Bob Baer is live with me, CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem is here, and then here with me in New York, former NYPD detective Gill Alba.

Gill, I'm going to begin with you, if I can. I can't stress it enough, it has barely been a day and a half since all of this even began and we've got a man on a stretcher on his way to a very, very long detention. Are you surprised that they were able to capture this person so quickly?

GILL ALBA, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: No, I'm not surprised that they did this. And, you know, this is one of the times that all the law enforcement agencies worked together and really did a great job. So we'll have to commend the law enforcement for doing a great job.

[12:25:07] As far as this particular person walking down and shooting at the cops, there's a reason for that, because he wanted to get killed. He wanted to kill as many cops as possible and he wanted to get killed. So the bottom line is this. With those bombs that he put in place, thank God that a lot more people weren't injured or killed with anything else because he looks like he wanted to do a lot of harm to a lot of people. So we're thanking God that the - the - as far as the people that died - or nobody died regarding this incident.

BANFIELD: Yes, very lucky that no one died. We're still waiting on a lot of updates as to the extent of the people who were injured in the bombing in Chelsea on Saturday night, on 23rd Street. That bomb going off in a dumpster. And much of the dumpster absorbing the energy of that blast and a lot of the shrapnel forced upward instead of outward, which could have taken a lot of lives and a lot of limbs. I hate to be graphic about it, but if you think of the Boston Marathon, that's how it works. These kinds of improvised explosives are maximized for damage, for death and damage. And when they blow upward instead of outward, that is mitigated significantly and that may be why we didn't have the loss of life on Saturday night. But we are awaiting updates on injuries from Saturday night.

In the meantime, Juliette Kayyem, our Evan Perez and Shimon Prokupecz getting from their sources that a fingerprint led to this. That information from the cell phone that was - I cannot stress enough how significant this is, that unexploded ordnance was discovered and that was investigated so incredibly quickly.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, and we were - we were talking about that this weekend, Ashleigh, you remember that that was sort of going to be the best piece of evidence because it was going to have trace materials, potentially fingerprints, signatures designations for the bomb.

But I also want to make clear to viewers, you know, in this time, when people can be a little bit anxious and nervous about what's going on. At every piece of this investigation, actually individual citizens were quite helpful. I think there are now reporting that in two cases it was actually a potential thief who saw the bags, who then saw something else was in the bag that notified the police and at least the New Jersey and the - and the undetonated bomb in New York, but obviously also in the search for Rahami, the FBI essentially crowd sourced, sent to the public saying, help us. Text messages were sent to New Yorkers.

BANFIELD: Hey, Juliette -

KAYYEM: This is the new normal and it's actually quite engaging.

BANFIELD: I'm going to interrupt you for a moment. I want to go to the candidate, Hillary Clinton, who's referring to the incident and the first responders.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: To Mayor Burly (ph), a Philadelphia native who became an activist working to end the epidemic of gun violence right here in Philadelphia. She loves Temple, and we love her. And I also want to thank Lauren for that introduction.

Jamira (ph) and Lauren are two examples of why I do have so much faith in our future. Your generation is the most inclusive, progressive and entrepreneurial that we've ever seen. And as you heard, when Lauren was in college, she saw challenges facing students of color, but there was no NAACP chapter to support them and promote diversity and inclusion on campus, so she started one. And Lauren remains committed and engaged, working with an organization called Generation Progress, because she understands that active citizenship is a lifelong job and the call of service never fades.

Now, I know that with so much negativity out there it is really easy to get cynical, especially about our politics.

BANFIELD: All right, so Hillary Clinton, just as we came to her, had switched gears, but right prior to us coming to her live in Philadelphia, she had acknowledged the arrest that was made of Ahmad Khan Rahami and also thanked the first responders who were - who were responsible for that. One of them shot apparently in the vest, one shot in the hand, several of them also engaged in a very dangerous shootout with the suspect.

In the meantime, Bob Baer, CNN intelligence and security analyst, I wanted to just ask you, when we look at those pictures of that suspects bleeding and handcuffed to the gurney as he gets loaded into that ambulance, I want to know from you what happens to him next.

[12:29:53] BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I'd like - if I could just say one thing, and I - the comments before. If he had taken this explosive device, the one that went off on 23rd Street, and put it in a confined area, a nightclub, a restaurant, we would have 29 fatalities right now. That bomb was very potent. In a confined area it had aluminum powder, which would have killed a lot of people.