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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Bomb Suspect's Notes; Rahami Held on 5 Counts; Investigators Seek Accomplices. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired September 20, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: David, thank you so much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

And thank you all so much for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts now

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

It's been a little over 24 hours since the only known suspect in the New York and New Jersey bomb attacks was taken into custody. And as so often happens, each new fact and lead actually spawns a dozen brand new questions. Today we know when Ahmad Khan Rahami was captured after a shootout with police on the streets of Linden, New Jersey. He was carrying a notebook on his person containing his thoughts about terror and three infamous terrorists in particular. We've also learned that Rahami's wife, whom he married five years ago in Pakistan, left the United States just days before the attacks.

I want to get right to our reporter, starting with my colleague Jessica Schneider, who's at the Rahami family's adopted hometown of Elizabeth, New Jersey.

So, question, he was in the hospital yesterday, likely to stay for some time. Do we know what condition he's in and what his status is right now?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've been checking in with some of the authorities, and we understand he is still at the hospital. In fact, we heard from the Union County prosecutor that it's likely his arraignment won't be for another week, and they're still saying they're not sure if the arraignment will actually be in court before a judge or actually inside the hospital.

We do know that Rahami is not talking. He's not cooperating with authorities. He's not giving them much information.

But I will tell you, Ashleigh, I've been out here all morning, I've been talking to people in this community. They actually tell me that Rahami was a regular presence at the family's fried chicken restaurant just behind me. It was just below where the family lived. They said that Rahami was there regularly. He was friendly. He was funny. One guy even telling me he made some of the best hamburgers he's ever had. So a lot of people, obviously, completely surprised that this happened.

And in addition, in just the past few hours, we've seen who we believe to be Rahami's father come out of the residence, twice, in fact, and on both occasions he addressed the media very shortly and not exactly clearly, but he did indicate that about two years ago he claims he called authorities. He talked about his son's violent nature. He talked about how his son had allegedly stabbed his other son and also hurt his mother. Those are claims we're working to independently verify with the authorities, both federally and locally and at the county level. Something we haven't done yet.

But one thing we do know for sure, Ashleigh, we do know that Rahami was arrested in 2014. He was arrested on weapons charges and also aggravated assault. So a lot of pieces to the puzzle that are starting to emerge and that we are just now starting to try to put together, obviously, as investigators are as well.

BANFIELD: All right, so, Jessica, I've got a two-part question as a follow-up. I know that the fed were raiding that chicken restaurant, above the restaurant were apartments believed to be occupied by the family members. So I'm just wondering if we know what the feds got out of that raid, if they're still there getting anything out of that raid and what the family's reaction, other than what you just mentioned, I think there was a - someone believed to be a sister putting out a post on FaceBook demanding some privacy. Just get me up to speed on that.

SCHNEIDER: Yes, a lot going on here, Ashleigh. We obviously saw that raid yesterday. And throughout the overnight hours tonight, I've been out here since about 3:00 in the morning. I've seen federal officials, federal agents going in and out of the restaurant and the residence itself. We haven't seen any other raids that have taken place today, but just a constant presence by both the local police, as well as the FBI agents.

You mentioned the family. We do know - I talked to a few of the neighbors here. They say that quite a few people lived in that residence up on the second floor, just above the fried chicken restaurant. They tell me that it was Rahami, his father, also a brother, a mother and then a few other small children as well.

While we think we're hearing from the father, the man believed - that we believe to be the father, we're also hearing from Rahami's sister. She released this on FaceBook. I believe we have a full screen of it. She said, "I would like people to respect my family's privacy, and let us have our peace after this tragic time." So she's asking for privacy, yet the man we believe to be the father, Rahami's father, has come out twice now and addressed the media, telling - telling us that he did contact authorities about two years ago as to his son's, what he said, violent nature.

Ashleigh.

CAMEROTA: All right, Jessica Schneider, thank you for that.

I want to go a little deeper into exactly what's happening in the paperwork aspect of this, the investigating, the charging, exactly what this man is facing at this moment. CNN's justice correspondent Evan Perez is here with me now.

All right, Evan, there's been a lot of discussion about exactly what kind of questioning this suspect might be undergoing, even now. Jessica wasn't clear yet on whether he's been moved out of the hospital. The police commissioner saying he's still in critical but stable, which would indicate he's still in the hospital. But that does not preclude investigators, as we learned from Tsarnaev, from asking a million questions and not delivering Miranda.

[12:05:12] EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. They were - initially they tried to talk to him before he went into these surgeries yesterday. He got three bullet wounds, essentially, which required surgery yesterday. And we know that they did talk to him. They tried to talk to him. He wasn't very cooperative. Again, they rendered some aid to him. They tried to make him more comfortable. We know that he hasn't been Mirandized. The idea was to go back today to see if he's able to talk and try to question him before you Mirandize him, you begin the legal processes. As you know, there's an exemption under the Miranda rule, the Quarles (ph) exception, which allows extended questioning of suspects in national security cases, and that's what they're trying to do.

BANFIELD: An imminent threat. I mean who knows if he had planted other bombs in other locations? We know of the four.

PEREZ: Exactly. That's - that's the - that's the legal reasoning for doing it -

BANFIELD: Yes.

PEREZ: To make sure that you exhaust all of that before you get to the - building the case.

BANFIELD: And, by the way, as I recall from Tsarnaev, that guy had a wound to the throat and couldn't speak. However, they gave him writing materials and asked him to write the answers.

PEREZ: They gave him writing materials, correct.

BANFIELD: So there could be other methods by which they can extract.

PEREZ: And in that case, as well, you know, as others, you know that suspects sometimes speak even after they've been Mirandized.

BANFIELD: Talk to me about this notebook that they found. Originally, look, the reporting's been fast and furious, as is often the case from the fog of the immediate incident.

PEREZ: Right. Right.

BANFIELD: We all thought there was a note with this information left with one of the bombs. But, no.

PEREZ: We thought it was - right, we thought it was with the bomb. It turned out that it actually was in the notebook that was - he was carrying on his person. There was a bullet hole, apparently, in the - in the notebook. So it may have sustained - been sustained during the firefight that took place before he was arrested. And we also know that in this notebook he makes references to Anwar Awlaki, the Yemini cleric who served as an inspiration for jihadis all over the world. We also know that he makes reference to other terrorists, including the Boston bombers. So in that - in those notes, Ashleigh, is where we're beginning to emerge the - the perhaps some kind of reasoning, some kind of motivation for what happened here.

BANFIELD: Do you know - I mean this is really putting anybody on the spot as we just get these details, but, you know, the Pulse Nightclub shoot had a chicken soup of allegiances.

PEREZ: Right.

BANFIELD: He was pledging to people who hate one another and don't actually ally in whatever they're cause is. There's no common cause. And I'm wondering if they know at this point whether the rambling nature of this notebook and what it might yield might be similar?

PEREZ: Exactly. That could very well be what emerges here. We do know that from what we've seen so far, nothing suggests ISIS, which is always the first question, given the fact that we've seen many more attacks from ISIS sympathizers. That's always the first concern. We haven't seen anything like that yet. We may see what emerges here is something of a mix of motivations and - and, you know, that - that is not uncommon also.

BANFIELD: Arraignment Wednesday, correct, whether he's in a hospital bed or not?

PEREZ: Right. That's for the local charges in Union County, New Jersey.

BANFIELD: Well, that's local. And, guess what, he's got a world of hurt coming on a federal level too.

PEREZ: In the federal level as well.

BANFIELD: That is - he's not going to escape that - that aspect of charging as well.

Evan Perez, great reporting. You and Shimon Prokupecz at the lead of this. Wonderful work. Thank you so much.

PEREZ: Thanks.

BANFIELD: Ahmed Rahami was captured barely four hours after the authorities put out that name, that photo, that cell phone alert, largely due to a bar owner. A bar owner who got that alert, who got those images, and then spotted Rahami sleeping in the doorway of his establishment. Just sleeping. Harinder Bains spoke last night to my colleague Anderson Cooper about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "AC 360": There's a lot of folks who are calling you a hero today. Do you feel like a hero?

HARINDER BAINS, SPOTTED RAHAMI, CALLED POLICE: No, I'm not a hero. I'm just a regular citizen doing what every citizen should do, call when --whatever you see, you call the cop. Cops are the real hero. Law enforcements are the real heroes, you know?

COOPER: There's a lot of people, though, who, you know, get - have suspicions but don't actually pick up the phone and dial the police when they - when they have a suspicion. You did that.

BAINS: Yes, I think everybody should do that. That's what they say, when you see something, you should say something, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I'm joined now by the mayor of nearby Elizabeth, New Jersey, Chris Bollwage.

Mr. Mayor, thank you for being with us.

I have to get right to the investigative aspect of this because there are so many details that are coming out in dribs and drabs. Is there anything more you can tell us about the possibility of other players involved in any potential cell or whether it's now the prevailing wisdom among officials that this is a lone wolf?

MAYOR CHRIS BOLLWAGE (D), ELIZABETH, NEW JERSEY: Yes. The FBI hasn't released an awful lot of information to I or local law enforcement regarding the investigation. We know the search warrant was executed yesterday, and they're clearly not going to tell us what's going on. As a matter of fact, they haven't even told us that the suspect is connected to Elizabeth and the Seaside Park incidents. We know he's connected to Chelsea, and we look to go forward from there.

[12:10:05] BANFIELD: So then the other clues may help yield some sort of intelligence. And - and we are learning now that this suspect had a wife who decided to depart only days before these attacks. She would have presumably lived in this same vicinity in your town, and maybe people in your town would have known her, would have suspected something. Do you have any intelligence about her presence and now her lack thereof?

BOLLWAGE: You know, there was very little knowledge about the suspect, never mind the wife. There was interaction with the father and the brothers on some code enforcement and noise issues through the years. But the brother and the wife, very - very little interaction. And I'm not so sure even people in the residence in this neighborhood know who she is.

BANFIELD: And certainly the federal authorities and the investigative authorities aren't sharing that now? I presume they are chasing down every lead to find her, to question her, but are you getting any of that shared with you?

BOLLWAGE: No. Once the FBI takes over an investigation, the sharing with law - local law enforcement really comes down to a minimal, and it's an as-need basis.

BANFIELD: So you mentioned that litigation. There have been discrimination cases. The owner of the restaurant behind you, the fried chicken shop, saying that the neighborhood had discriminated against him. There had been litigation regarding the hours of it being open. Is there something to this? Is there some sort of consternation that built up? Could this have led to an angst or an anger, or is it the prevailing wisdom among others who have read these notes in his journal that instead he's inspired perhaps by an Anwar Awlaki and online, you know, radical teachings? Are you getting any feeling one way or the other?

BOLLWAGE: You know, it's really difficult as a mayor to make the leap that someone is accused of noise complaints and code enforcement complaints into making bombs to destroy the sanctity of life. So that leap becomes real difficult to understand.

That being said, all of the information that's been uncovered and sent to the press regarding radicalization, we're not made aware of that here locally in the city of Elizabeth. No one wakes up in the morning and decides to call the mayor and saying, I went to Afghanistan and became radicalized.

BANFIELD: Yes, well, understand. Just, you know, you never know what the motivations are among people who are clearly troubled from the get-go. Whether it was, you know, potentially some kind of litigation that led to a motivation suspicion of discrimination. I mean who - who knows. But, Mayor Chris Bollwage, I hope you'll continue to help us get clarity to the comings and goings and where this investigation goes from here. Thank you, sir.

BOLLWAGE: Thank you for having me, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, the bombing suspect's long trips to Afghanistan. You heard the mayor reference them. Afghanistan was on the list. Pakistan also. He said he was just visiting family. But was that true? Was there anything else he might have been up to while overseas in those places? You'll find out, next.

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[12:16:57] BANFIELD: Got some good news to report to you. One of two police officers shot yesterday in the takedown of that bombing suspect is now released from the hospital. And that's great news because Officer Peter Hammer (ph) had been fired, almost point-blank, through the windshield of his cruiser and sustained some pretty bad injuries. Apparently had significant bleeding from what was considered a graze wound. Ahmed Rahami taken down shortly after that injury. There were two officers taken to the hospital. One of them was Officer Hammer. The other was an officer who was shot in the vest. He was taken to the hospital and released yesterday. But both of those officers being hailed as heroes today. And Officer Peter Hammer now finally out of the hospital. Thank God for that.

Now we are on to the motive for all of this. The investigators left to pore over all of the travel records of that New York and New Jersey bombing suspect Ahmad Khan Rahami. We do know that he was born in Afghanistan and that he traveled there often. He is also married to a woman whom he met in Pakistan. A Pakistani woman, our knowledge tells us. The authorities now looking to question that wife. And apparently that wife left the United States just a few days before the bombings actually happened.

Police are trying to figure out if Mr. Rahami, who's a U.S. citizen now, if his travels to Afghanistan and Pakistan had something to them. Especially since he was going to areas that are recognized as Taliban and al Qaeda strongholds. Where - were these catalysts for his radicalization or were they family visits to weddings and the like? That's what he says.

So far the Taliban is denying any involvement in these bombings. As for ISIS, nothing yet. Mum's the word. Really no word at all emerging to indicate that this might have been an ISIS supporter at work.

And then there's another clue. A notebook found on the suspect's person after that shootout. Investigators say in it ramblings about terrorists and terrorist leaders. He references the Boston Marathon bombers, and the Yemeni American cleric Anwar Al-Awlaki.

I want to discuss this with former New York City police detective Steve Kardian, along with CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank, CNN intelligence and security analyst Bob Baer, and security and explosives consultant Anthony May.

Paul, I'm going to begin with you, if I can. We're getting a real sort of hodge-podge, a cocktail of information. Some of it dropping out while other bits come into play. And I'm trying to get a feel from an international perspective on how much we think this young man may have been internationally inspired or trained or supported, or how much this young man, it appears, may have just been a lone wolf self- radicalized?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Investigators are still searching for answers on that front but they're certainly looking at that international travel to Pakistan, to Afghanistan, a long stay in Qatar, Pakistan, the h-quarters (ph) of the Afghan Taliban between 2013 and 2014. They're also examining the pressure cooker bombs that were recovered, the one intact bomb that was recovered in New York. That - it was a powerful explosive substance mixture in that probably it could be more powerful than the Boston bombings. It contained HMTD, which is pretty trick to make. We've seen very few cases of Islamist terrorists in the west since 9/11 where they - where they've - yes, where they've managed to do that.

[12:20:18] BANFIELD: And I'm going to get into the mechanics of that in a moment with Anthony because he's great with the bombing. But with your expertise, he's got the travel.

CRUICKSHANK: Uh-huh. BANFIELD: He's got the journal.

CRUICKSHANK: Uh-huh.

BANFIELD: He's got the ramblings about not only the Boston Marathon, but maybe even Fort Hood. It may be that there are conflicting ideologists in his ramblings, as we saw with the Pulse Nightclub shooter. And then we have this family that so far we don't know if they are going to be helpful or not to investigators. But does that give you any feeling one way or the other about what this motivation might have been?

BANFIELD: Well, I think this whole pointing very much in the Islamist radicalization point of view, the fact that he was referencing Anwar Al-Awlaki, this is an American Yemeni cleric who, in the years before his death in a U.S. drone strike five years ago almost to this day, was encouraging people like him in the west to carry out terrorist attacks because as Al-Awlaki was saying, the United States, in his view, was at war with Islam. And according to what he was saying, all American Muslims needed to strike back by any means necessary.

The fact that in this notebook we understand there was even a bullet hole in that notebook when it was recovered.

BANFIELD: Right.

CRUICKSHANK: He had it - you know, when he - when the police went in, that Al-Awlaki is mentioned, I think points us in the direction that Al-Awlaki was a significant influence over what he did.

BANFIELD: And that bullet hole may have been from the actual shootout, the takedown.

Bob Baer, with your, you know, intelligence and your security knowledge, the wife. The fact that the wife left just days before. Can you see this two different ways? Can you see this as a catalyst, a domestic situation, that was devastating and drove him to do what maybe he might have been planning to do or not planning to do, or something more dire?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I think it's more dire, Ashleigh. I would think this guy's a Sunni Salafi (ph) going to Quetta (ph). That's what you're going to find there. It doesn't matter whether it's the Taliban or the Junala (ph). A bunch of other groups, al Qaeda there. It's off limits even to the Pakistan Army. You cannot go there without protection from one of these groups.

Did he learn his explosives there? I don't know. And, by the way, we're not going to find out from the Pakistanis. Their intelligence on Balugistan (ph) is bad. They don't know what's going on. And the fact that the wife leaves, and these multiple bombs. When you add it all up, there's something more dire, more sinister going on here. No doubt in my mind. And the fact that he spent time in Kandahar, you know, it just - you add it all up, and Awlaki and also staying off the Internet is very interesting -

BANFIELD: Right.

BAER: Because are they learning, these people? It's pretty clear what's happened here, the motivations.

BANFIELD: Be critical to find her, if they can, and get intelligence, if they can.

Anthony, with your - you know, your bomb intelligence, you know, with the explosives knowledge that you have, I wanted to put a list in front of you just to maybe try to glean some information off of this. This was a - a series of bombs. Ten of them in total. And there were both pipe bombs and pressure cookers in the mechanics, OK? Most or all of them used in old flip-style phone as a timer. There were Christmas tree-styled lights that were used as initiators. HMTD was used as an explosive compound to help detonate. But in the pipe bombs, black powder. So really varied in devices. Does this sound to you like it's possible one person, who clearly wasn't very good at this, because only two detonated, one with the help of police, would be able to put together all of these different kinds of devices?

ANTHONY MAY, SECURITY & EXPLOSIVES CONSULTANT: Well, Ashleigh, it certainly is unusual. Typically we see bombers stick with their comfort level. If they're comfortable making pipe bombs, that's what they're going to make and they're easy to construct. Moving into the realm of the pressure cooker, manufacturing HMTD, which is a homemade explosive made of Hexamine (ph), which is a heat tablet - a citric acid and a peroxide takes a little bit more effort. And the most interesting think about that, or most importantly about that is that it doesn't go unnoticed. If you're - if you're manufacturing HMTD, there's going to be odors in the area. You're going to be moving stuff in and out. It's not a difficult task. It doesn't take a large facility to do it. You can do it in your - in your home, in a - in a regular room. All you need is a good ice bath.

But the cross of technology here from Christmas tree light bulbs and it's not surprising. When I saw the damage to that dumpster at the Chelsea bombing, it was clear to me, that was not black powder. But because he was comfortable with the Christmas tree light bulbs, it was not surprising that he used the HMTD as a detonator. It's been suggested that a wrapper from a Tanerite (ph), which was a commercially manufactured exploding target product, was found at the Chelsea bombing, indicating that that may have been the main charge and the HMTD detonator was used to initial that.

[12:25:25] BANFIELD: OK.

MAY: So it - there's too much here going on for one individual, in my opinion.

BANFIELD: It seemed to me that it was a very - a varied group of, you know, bits and pieces of knowledge that you'd have to have to be able to construct all of those different kinds of device.

Steve, if we're not getting this information so far from the intelligence gathering through evidence, hopefully we'll get it from him. I'm not holding my breath on this one, but that man has not been Mirandized yet. There could be an imminent threat at this point. There are exemptions to Miranda. What's happening, do you think, in that hospital room right now if he's actually still there?

STEVE KARDIAN, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, the rule you're talking about is a Quarles (ph) rule, and it's a public safety exception that was passed by the Supreme Court in 1984 based on the fact that it's more important to public safety than it is for the defendant's Fifth Amendment right to self-incrimination. So they're going to be working on him. They're going to be questioning him over and over with different investigators trying to hit different angles, persuading him and trying to get him to talk and give up some information. So we know, like, for example, with the notebook, we're looking at motive, we're looking at intent, we're looking at affiliation. Those are the things that they're going to be going after with regard to extracting information.

BANFIELD: We'll see if we get anything. We got a few things out of Tsarnaev on those first few hours. It was pretty remarkable. And then it was clam up.

Paul Cruikshank, Anthony May, Steve Kardian, and Bob Baer, thank you to all four of you.

Coming up next, he's accused of shooting at the police officers and then planting bombs as well to try to kill American citizens. So does he deserve the protection of the U.S. Constitution? Some are suggesting that Ahmed Rahami be treated as an enemy combatant instead and denied due process. Is that legal?

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