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New Day

Search Continues for Missing Malaysian Airplane; Leaflet Asking Jews to Register Property in Ukraine Causes Stir; Martin Savidge Inside A Submarine; Chelsea Clinton Announces Pregnancy

Aired April 18, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All eyes right now on the fifth mission as we understand, still under way. We'll bring you more information as we get it. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Erin, thank you very much for the latest on the search from Perth, Australia.

Let's bring in two of our experts to sort out the latest developments. David Gallo, CNN analyst and a former director of the Air France -- search for Air France flight 447, and David Soucie, CNN safety analyst and a former FAA inspector here with us once again. Good morning, once again, to both of you.

David Gallo, let's start with where Erin just left off. The fact that the Australian prime minister suggesting that in a week they will have exhausted this part of the search. They will need to regroup and reconsider is how he is quoted as saying it. David Soucie and I were talking and he's kind of confused by that bit of maybe pessimism. What do you make of the prime minister's comments? Do you think that's an accurate timeline?

DAVID GALLO, CNN ANALYST: Well, I think the team that's out there now needs to bit more time. It's not clear to me whether they mean expanding the present area so it's a larger search area. That makes sense to me. Jumping to other places hundreds of miles away is harder for me to understand why you do that.

But it's a lot more complicated. They're talking about -- remember, we talked about mowing the lawn. Imagine having a bigger lawn but bringing in maybe 10 different people to mow that lawn. It takes a lot of coordination or you wind up with a real mess on your hands.

BOLDUAN: You can absolutely understand how that's possible. David Soucie, so they are now open to the possibility of bringing in more underwater vehicles. What do you think has changed, because they have yet to exhaust this part of the search?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: I think it's in preparation. I don't think that they've actually said send them now. That's at least my understanding of it. So I think it's letting us know there is a plan b, they don't want people thinking once this is over, it's over, because it's not. The search would continue. So I think that's where they're going with this, is they want people to know if this is exhausted, if our plan doesn't work, we have a plan b. BOLDUAN: We know what the backup is.

SOUCIE: Yes.

BOLDUAN: David Gallo, from your experience, how long does that process take? How long would it take them to be operational with more underwater vehicles?

GALLO: I would imagine if they're prepositioning, submarines right now and robots, mostly robots, so you're talking weeks to get them assembled. There's only really a handful of them but they're scattered around the world.

BOLDUAN: And that, of course, you got to get them there. You've got to get them out to the search zone. You've got to get teams together to do that, which kind of speaks to the cost that we have now begun to get an estimate of, the over-arching cost is going to be near a quarter of a billion dollars, is the estimate that's out there. It does make me wonder, it's interesting to know how much it costs, this entire search. But do you think the cost of the search is going to impact the search, David Soucie?

SOUCIE: I don't see that. Every single person involved has just said we have to find it, we're t no going to stop, we're going to continue. Of course there has to be some kind of accountability and some way of keeping track of the money spent. That number seems very high to me.

BOLDUAN: Does it?

SOUCIE: With other investigations, more like $50 million to $70 million. In fact, air France wasn't anywhere near the $250 million figure that they're talking about here. Of course, we're talking about a larger search area, but I suspect what that figure includes is if they expand the search and have to go into these other areas. So I think we find a number much smaller if we do indeed find something this week.

BOLDUAN: Does the cost of a search on this scale, David Gallo, does it inhibit, does it prohibit, constrain the actual search while you're in the middle of it?

GALLO: You have been careful. You want to bring just what you need, you want to be very efficient at it. Typically the way I think, and this is just roughly speaking, it's about $1 million a month per ship per team. So that's about the way I look at it. And you can spend a lot more, but when it comes right down to it, it should be one team, one vehicle, one plan, and per ship and off you go.

BOLDUAN: And off you go. If we have to move to a plan b, a backup plan, you come up with a moniker, one option is we discussed earlier on the show is expanding the search. It would be a big expansion of the search area.

SOUCIE: Massive.

BOLDUAN: A huge expansion. Is there another option? Why not retrace your steps?

SOUCIE: Well, that, again, has to do with how much confidence they have and the case that they built so far. And overconfidence can get you in trouble as well. In addition to backing off back to step -- plan b they should have another team look at the assumptions that they made all along and recalculate, because these confidence factors that you put on facts or the assumption of facts can change based on other information that you get. So it's not just about the calculations like the Inmarsat data calculations, it's also about the assumptions of what you do with those calculations and the assumptions you make to make the calculations. So if someone should be going all of the way back to a white sheet and saying, how do we derive these conclusions that we have now.

BOLDUAN: And you think of all of the conclusions and all the assumptions that have been made now in to day 42 on this search. That would be a lot of work to be done, once again.

SOUCIE: Absolutely.

BOLDUAN: David Gallo, David Soucie, thanks, guys. Chris, Michaela?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Kate, let's shift to another urgent situation. In eastern Ukraine this morning, the self- proclaimed leader of the pro-Russian groups there is refusing an international deal that would stand them down. Meanwhile, Jewish residents in one city are still reeling from the demand that they register with the opposition. Phil Black is live in Donetsk. Phil, what do we understand about this? Is this some kind of very ugly political ploy going on as a tactic, or is this seen as a legitimate threat?

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It does look political, Chris. It all hangs on that ominous word, "registration." It is such a sensitive issue in this country because Ukraine is a country that suffered enormously during the nazi occupation of World War II.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLACK: This letter has injected the fear of anti-Semitism into Ukraine's crisis. The chief rabbi at Donetsk reads the text, which says, "All Jews over the age of 16 must register their identities, real estate, and car ownership." He tells me the notice was handed out near his synagogue on Tuesday by four men wearing masks. He says when he first saw it he felt shock and fear. America's ambassador to Ukraine described his reaction to CNN's Jack Tapper.

GEOFFREY PYATT, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: It's chilling. I was disgusted by these leaflets, especially in Ukraine, a country that suffered so terribly under the Nazis. It was one of the sites of the worst violence of the holocaust. To drag up this kind of rhetoric again is almost beyond belief.

BLACK: The notice is signed, Denis Pushilin. Pushilin is the leader of the crowd's occupying government buildings in Donetsk who want to break away from Ukraine. Pushilin denies he's behind the leaflet, telling CNN it's a clear provocation. The notice says "Jews must register because they supported protesters in Kiev who drove out the country's former president." The rabbi says the Jews of Donetsk believe they are now being used in a wider political gain. He says the people who pray here are angry because those competing to control the future of the country are repeating the mistakes of history.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACK: It's not the first time the shadow of anti-Semitism has been raised in the Ukrainian crisis. Russia in particular repeatedly alleged they are a threat to people of nationalist in Ukraine. Jewish community is angry about all of this. They say this incredibly sensitive issue is repeatedly being used in a cynical, really tossed around in a very light way and used to try and achieve political goal. Michaela, back to you.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Angry as they should be. Phil Black, thank you for that.

Let's take a look at your other headlines, now starting with breaking news. The search underway right now on Mount Everest after a high altitude avalanche killed at least 12 Sherpa guides. Several more are missing. The guides were apparently preparing a route to the summit for climbers. We're told this is the deadliest single event in the mountain's history.

The president says Obamacare enrollment exceeded expectations by 1 million enrollments in part due to a late surge in enrollment by young people. And 8 million have now signed up, a 35 percent, rather are under age 35. Critics say that's still not enough to make it work. The president disagrees though. He is calling on Republicans to stop their attacks on the law.

A suspect is now in custody in connection with a series of high why shootings in and around Kansas City. Those attacks began in early March. Some 20 drivers were targeted. At least three were injured. Charges are pending against the suspect who has not been identified yet by police.

Pope Francis will lead Good Friday mass this morning at St. Peter's Basilica. Later he will walk the Stations of the Cross at Rome's coliseum. Good Friday is the most solemn day on the Christian calendar, marking the day Jesus was crucified. Yesterday on Holy Thursday the Pope broke again with tradition. He washed the feet of ordinary people rather than of priests.

CUOMO: Staying consistent.

PEREIRA: Consistent with his message, exactly. Man of the people, absolutely.

CUOMO: All right, we'll take a break here on NEW DAY. When we come back, if, and it's going to be a big if, the Bluefin finds flight 370, that's when the real hard work begins. We're not going to -- what am I trying to say here? We're going to show you what it's like to be in that sub. You mow Martin Savidge. You know the dedication he is showing in this submarine. It is tight and it is deep, and we're going to take you there with him.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. And also this ahead -- Hillary Clinton has a new job that comes with a new title. But it has nothing to do with politics. It's even better. Details on "INSIDE POLITICS."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Right now the Bluefin-21 is back underwater looking for any debris from flight 370. This is not easy. And unfortunately will get much harder the minute the Bluefin actually spots something.

Joining us now to walk through just how tough the recovery operation could be is CNN correspondent Martin Savidge and submarine and salvage expert Phil Nuytten. Where are they? They are in a submarine 50 feet underwater showing us exactly what it is like. Martin, please, take it away. Describe your situation starting, of course, with the personal. Are you doing OK, my man?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, it was a little bit more difficult this morning just acclimating myself. But I'm in a good place now, thank you very much for asking.

Here we are at the bottom of horseshoe bay, British Columbia. What we wanted to demonstrate for you today, Phil is the expert. Yesterday we talked about recovering the black box. We showed how that can be done with a manipulator arm. But this one is a bit more tricky because what we're assuming here is that, essentially, Phil, if this was caught in wreckage, in other words, if the black box or whatever they needed to retrieve from the aircraft was caught in wreckage, now you're talking about having to cut and either somehow pull apart the aircraft.

PHIL NUYTTEN, SUBMARINE AND SALVAGE EXPERT: That's correct. The problem is trying to cut your way into it you need to remove all debris around it. So you have to cut it or attach some sort of a jaw to it, something like a manipulator, and rip it up from the surface or be able to do with it the arm. The whole thing depends on the -- the position of the wreck and how much debris there is all of those things. And you won't know what you need until you see what that situation is.

SAVIDGE: We got a couple of tools we can show you here, Chris. One, if you look out, maybe through the forward, we can show you in two angles. The camera here, it may look like a 45 record.

CUOMO: That's what it looks like.

(CROSSTALK)

NUYTTEN: This is an abrasive metal cutting wheel.

SAVIDGE: Yeah, it does look like it. I thought it was one of the Bee Gees, but, no, it's not, apparently.

NUYTTEN: This is a hydraulically powered cutting wheel that we can cut steel with. So we can use the manipulator arm to move it back and forth and cut through steel or aluminum as the case may be here.

SAVIDGE: So it cuts literally like a -- like a sawed (ph) wood.

NUYTTEN: It's acting like a circular saw.

SAVIDGE: Mm-hmm. And then the other item we've kind of -- is looking like an upturned u. What is that thing?

NUYTTEN: That's a guillotine cutter so that we can get in and cut wires or cut small cables. And they come in various sizes. So if you were going down to do this sort of work in that wreck, you could be equipped with all of these tools.

SAVIDGE: Can you maneuver -- just -- I'd like see that blade just a little bit from a different angle here and maybe if ray can show it. So this essentially, would it be able to cut through an aircraft frame?

NUYTTEN: Oh, sure, yeah. The -- with a big enough wheel and a big enough hydraulic motor, you'd cut through the frame easily.

SAVIDGE: And I ask this, one of the questions I had, Chris, was, you know, why not use a torch? Or can they do anything like that under water?

NUYTTEN: No, unfortunately the manipulators can't hold an arc for the cutting, and so you're pretty much confined to mechanical cutting; that is the abrasive saws or diamond wires. There's a wire you can loop around it and actually spin it up, and then there's a diamond bead on the wire that will cut through. That's what they did with the --

CUOMO: Hey, Martin, can you ask him to turn that on?

(CROSSTALK)

SAVIDGE: Chris?

CUOMO: Can you ask him to turn that cutting thing on?

SAVIDGE: Well, the thing is -- we have -- one of the cutting things we are going to show you next hour. This particular one right now is we're kind of hung on a rock. We're not in a position to do that.

And then this is also, realistically, some of the issues you can run into is that when the submersible sets down, or ROV, whatever it may be, the bottom itself can be a hazard.

NUYTTEN: Well, certainly. You know, we're expecting that the bottom in that area will probably be very fine silt and very floury type of a bottom, so that as soon as you sat down on it, you immediately stir up a cloud of sediment.

And, particularly when you're using down thrusters, the sediment just rolls in. So you have to make your move quickly, do what you're going to do because the big dust cloud following you and then you have to sit and wait for it to settle down so you can see again. So it's a matter of slow, delicate steps, inch by inch, going through and cutting.

SAVIDGE: And I -- I real quickly before we have to go. Once you cut a piece, how do you get it to the top? I mean, how do they plan to lift, say they have large sections of this aircraft?

NUYTTEN: Well, that's a good question. The manipulator arm can either on an ROV or manned submersible, can attach snaps, tongs, to the various sections and they can lift those to the surface by cable.

SAVIDGE: Hey, Jeff. Jeff is the pilot, by the way. Is there any way to give us a blast of JUST propulsion again to kind of give you a sense of -- there are so many things that can complicate and make a search -- and make a recovery effort down here difficult.

Now, we've already talked about, you know, one aspect is it could be easy to get hung up on a rock. The other thing we should point out that navigating down here, it's not like you have a GPS. You know, it's not like you really get too much of a map. Your biggest concern then -- he's going to be navigating, using a sonar, right?

NUYTTEN: Sonar system so that he's -- the sonar system will tell if there's any major obstacles in the way. The other stuff will be visual. So it will be a combination of operating by sonar and by visual through the ports or through a video camera.

SAVIDGE: And the -- the sonar is going to give you a range of about how far?

NUYTTEN: Well, the -- if you're up off the bottom you can see probably 500 meters or so. But when you're flat on the bottom, it's going to be a very short range, something like five, ten meters.

SAVIDGE: Yeah, and I think we were talking yesterday, Chris, that, you know, probably 15 hours maybe they could spend either in an ROV or something like this?

NUYTTEN: Yeah, that would be a long shift. But certainly --

SAVIDGE: I'm not volunteering for that, just so you know.

(LAUGHTER)

NUYTTEN: I understand that.

But you know, if you include the time up and down, of course, that's half the time. So if you get six or seven good hours on the bottom, that's a pretty good shift with an ROV. Of course, the ROV doesn't care how long it spends.

But then the problem becomes station keeping. How does the surface vessel, which is supplying the power and the cabling to the ROV. Remember, it's tethered. How does it stay in position? So you have to use a dynamically positioned vessel, and it has to hold station, and that's sometimes very difficult. CUOMO: Martin?

SAVIDGE: You know, there's so many more things, Chris, that we could -- yeah? Go ahead.

CUOMO: Yeah, I mean, look, we're going to keep coming to you as much as you can tolerate down there so that we can get these different dynamics because they're all going to become familiar hopefully if anything is found.

Let me ask you something that's a little insensitive but practical. For these people who are going to be stuck in this tube so far under water for so long, what kind of facilities do you have in there? Is there a head on board there? I'm sure they have food and water. But what do you do there when you're 20,000 leagues under the sea with all that water around with the power of suggestion?

SAVIDGE: You know, Chris is asking me -- it's a very good point. Human beings. And it may be ROVs, but it could also be humans that go down. For that length of time when nature calls, there is no lavatory. There is no, you know, facilities here. Barely enough room for the four of us. So I think it's a bit of acrobatics with --

NUYTTEN: We have our mission range extender, we call it, which is an empty plastic bottle.

(LAUGHTER)

Sometimes we take down some plastic bottle full of apple juice to drink. And the idea is to pass the apple juice through you into the mission range extender, which is nothing more than a big plastic bottle.

SAVIDGE: Yeah, no worry. No demonstrations of that, just so you know.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Well, Martin, thank you very much. It really is helpful to see what will happen in the next phase. And I know it's coming. It's significant personal sacrifice to you. And I appreciate it, my brother. Thank you for doing it.

SAVIDGE: You're most welcome. The fascination overrules the claustrophobia.

CUOMO: I have a feeling that I'm going to be paying for Martin to eat and drink for a very long time when I see him going forward because the dedication he is showing right now, Kate.

BOLDUAN: I keep finding myself holding my breath while we're watching Martin. It's like -- but he's doing such an amazing job.

Coming up next on NEW DAY, questioning the most promising leads in the search for Flight 370. Could some of those pings be misleading? How accurate is this narrow search area that they've put so much confidence in?

And also, on Inside Politics, some choice words from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid who he called domestic terrorists, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Welcome back to NEW DAY, 25 past the hour. Let's give you a look at your headlines.

An arrest warrant now issued for the captain of the South Korean ferry that capsized and is now completely underwater. Divers managed briefly to get inside, but rough waters forced them out. Air is being pumped into the ship to try to keep any possible survivors alive. The confirmed death toll right now is 28, and it is expected to rise.

New this morning, the Malaysians are now looking for more underwater equipment to aid in the search for Flight 370. And unmanned sub is scanning the waters in the Indian Ocean right now for signs of the jetliner. This is the fifth mission for Bluefin-21. The first four turned up nothing. As you'll recall, that plane went missing some six weeks ago.

A self-proclaimed separatist leader is rejecting an international deal to ease tensions between Ukriane's government and pro-Russian protesters saying his men won't leave occupied government buildings until Kiev's government leaves power. That a day after Jewish residents in one city were given leaflets demanding they register themselves and pay a fee or face deportation. Echoes of the 1940s right the there. Terrible.

CUOMO: Terrible, especially if it is a political ploy, as they believe it to be.

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

CUOMO: What an ugly way to go. Shows us how ugly that situation is.

Speaking of ugly, politics here, always ugly. So let's get inside it on NEW DAY with Mr. John King.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I thought you meant me.

BOLDUAN: I did, too.

(LAUGHTER)

I was waiting for it.

CUOMO: No, you are handsome and intelligent.

KING: TGIF. Congratulations, Ms. Bolduan, more on that in just a moment when we get back to you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you, dear.

KING: But let's go Inside Politics this morning. A lot of ground to cover.

With me to share their reporting and their insights, Molly Ball of "The Atlantic", CNN's Peter Hamby.

Let's start with the big Clinton news this morning. Well, the second biggest Clinton news this morning. We've known for months Hillary Clinton was writing a book. We know this morning now the title. Let's show you the book cover here. "Hard Choices." That will be the book detailing her role as secretary of state, Molly. Hard choices at the State Department and also could be a campaign slogan, couldn't it?

MOLLY BALL, "THE ATLANTIC": Absolutely. I mean, I think it's inevitable that any book that Hillary Clinton was going to write was going to be seen as a campaign book, but this is clearly branded as something that is less a sort of personal memoir and more a, sort of -- similar to the profile that she carved out in the '08 campaign, that she's a fighter, that she's somehow who knows how to do things that are difficult.

It's sort of implicitly the same message that she campaigned against Barack Obama, saying, you know, that -- that it's not this easy to govern or to be president, that you've got to do things that are tough.

KING: Gotta do things that are tough, Peter. But we've seen from Republicans in recent months whether it's Benghazi, whether it's Iran, whether it's, how come it took John Kerry to get the Israelis and the Palestinians to the table. Republicans are saying if she runs, they won't be afraid to say, what did you accomplish?

PETER HAMBY, CNN ANALYST: Yeah, what's interesting there's also -- there's a new photo, you saw that they rolled out, Simon & Schuster. There's also a new blurb about the book. And look, maybe I'm too cynical. Maybe we're dissecting this, you know, too finely.

But it says, when she took office as Secretary of State she and President Obama made these hard decisions in Iran, Russia, et cetera. So you know, she can sort of shift some of that blame perhaps to the unpopular decisions that the administration made, you know, with President Obama.

KING: We're never cynical here.

(LAUGHTER)

The book is due out in June. And we also learned yesterday that a couple of months after the book comes out, so right after the book tour, Hillary Clinton gets this gift.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHELSEA CLINTON, DAUGHTER OF HILLARY CLINTON: Marc and I are very excited that we have our first child arriving later this year.

(APPLAUSE) And I certainly feel all the better, whether it's a girl or a boy, that she or he will grow up in a world full of so many strong, young female leaders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Congratulations and best wishes, first and foremost, to Chelsea Clinton and her husband Marc. Does this matter at all to Hillary Clinton's calculation of run for president? She will be a grandmother. Is that a plus, a minus, a neutral?

BALL: I have no idea. I think it's insane to speculate on like what this means for a Clinton campaign. Obviously, her personal life is a big part of her calculation about whether she chooses to run for president. But I have no idea which way this tips the scales. And I think it's kind of silly to see this as a political story, actually.

KING: Good. We'll this as a happy family story. We had the president, Peter -- it's hard not to call this a bit of an end zone dance. The president came into the briefing room yesterday to announce even better that last week there were over 7 million. Now the president says they've reached 8 million enrollees in Obamacare. He also said the percentage of young Americans, while not as high as they would look, was higher than many anticipated.

Listen to the president here. This essentially is a -- the president trying to tell fellow Democrats, "Get out of the crouch (ph)."