Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Violent Protests Rage in Missouri; Russian Convoy Heading to Ukraine; Pope Arrives in South Korea; Rescue Mission in Iraq Unlikely

Aired August 14, 2014 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY: There are hundreds of people, which cannot be considered masses in a town like that. And you are absolutely correct. There have been one or two or three that have done anything that is dangerous to a militia that has been formed in Ferguson against the people that are trying to peacefully protest, a right that they have to peacefully protest. It's completely excessive.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: We have reporters on the ground, Steve. And you hear the words that Mo is using, a militia. You understand that this is a community that is reeling from the death of a teenage boy, a black teenage boy. This is also a community that is racially divided. We know that there are about two-thirds of the people in the community are black. Yet, there's only three black officers on the force.

This is a community in pain. How do we address a community in pain that is also having this kind of scene play out?

STEVE KARDIAN, RETIRED POLICE DETECTIVE, WESTCHESTER COUNTY: This was a very unfortunate incident. And we don't know exactly what happened. So the response by the community is unwarranted at this time.

IVORY: Oh, my God!

KARDIAN: We have to understand. Absolutely, they have the right to protest.

IVORY: Are you kidding me?

KARDIAN: They have the right to say what they do. They don't have the right to loot. They don't have the right to burn down homes, throw Molotov cocktails at police officers. It's totally absurd.

IVORY: First of all, I want to address --

KARDIAN: Dozens of people have been arrested not just a few bad apples.

IVORY: OK, dozens of people who have been arrested, including two journalists that were doing nothing but charging their computers and responding to what was going on.

You do not know that all the people that have been arrested have been arrested for any real reason. The same way a boy -- KARDIAN: We don't --

PEREIRA: Let her finish.

IVORY: -- the same way a boy was executed in the street for no real reason. So for you to say that what we don't know this, all of your "we don't know" is to the benefit of the police officers. None of this "we don't know what's going on" do you give to the benefit of the people who are peacefully protesting.

(CROSSTALK)

KARDIAN: What --

IVORY: Hold on, Steve. This is exactly the problem that we have in America, that your assumption is that police are acting in the safety of their own selves instead of excessive force. And your attitude is exactly the reason why a police officer could executed a kid in the middle of the street.

(CROSSTALK)

KARDIAN: You keep using the word "execute". You don't know what happened. Nobody knows what happened. So, you using the term "executed" may be completed ludicrous.

IVORY: This is the exact problem. This is the exact prop problem. This is the exact problem, Michaela, the assumptions.

PEREIRA: Let Steve respond. I appreciate your passion, Mo. But there's no -- if we can't hear each other, we can't have this dialogue.

IVORY: I'm sorry.

PEREIRA: No, it's OK. I appreciate your passion. We have to have dialogue. That's the one thing all three of us can agree on here.

IVORY: Yes.

PEREIRA: So, Steve, let's talk about this. You're addressing a situation where there's clearly a lot of frustration. How do we get past this? Because today, we can't see another -- as soon as night falls, we can't see another situation like what played out last night and what happens played out the night before in Ferguson.

Does this police department have this situation under control?

KARDIAN: I don't think anything -- it's a very unsettled atmosphere there, to say the very least. So, law enforcement has to be prepared for anything and everything that's going to happen.

PEREIRA: But are they? Here is the concern, optics of this situation looks like this is a community that is in dire straits and spiraling out of control.

KARDIAN: There's a lot of emotion. We don't know -- I just heard Mo say that he was assassinated. We don't know that.

So, just like the community that's there, not only are they jumping to conclusions, but you're also jumping to conclusions. We don't know what happened. We don't know what happened to the two journalists, why that they were detained. Was it for their own safety? Were they in a dangerous situation?

These are things that we don't know. So respond. Wait for the investigation to come out. Why loot before you even know exactly what happened?

PEREIRA: Mo, he makes a good point in the respect that cool heads need to prevail, because the fact is that this investigation needs to happen. I know there's frustration over the fact that the name of this officer hasn't been released, that certain eyewitnesses on the ground haven't been talked to at this point.

I know there's frustration. And at the end of the day, an 18-year-old is dead. Mo, how do we use this anger productively?

IVORY: Sure.

PEREIRA: How do we -- you and I both know that anger can only get us so far.

IVORY: Absolutely.

PEREIRA: Violence sometimes is the way the voiceless express their emotions. How do we pull back from that and have a substantive conversation about what needs to happen in Ferguson and many other cities in this country?

IVORY: Sure. Michaela, cool heads do need to prevail. But in a situation like this, the coolest heads are the people who are in the powerful position. Right now, that is the Ferguson police department. They are the ones that should be setting the example of cool heads.

But they do not have the training. They do not have the management and they do not have the leadership in Ferguson to do that. Instead, they are doing what they have always been doing, exerting their power in a non-useful way.

What the police chief responded to a third reporter who asked him why the two journalists were arrested and his response was, "Oh, God," as if he doesn't even know what to do at this point. If the Ferguson police chief, if the mayor, if the heads of this whole operation, investigation don't even know how to respond accordingly, then how can you blame the people who want to come out and protest about this injustice that has been done and blame them for the emotion that is high? I'm sick of it and so are they.

PEREIRA: Steve, do you see -- we know the governor is now has the -- you know, Ferguson has the governor's attention. We know the FBI is involved in this investigation. Do you think state or even federal officials need to step in now that the police station there, the police department is overwhelmed? KARDIAN: No. I think that law enforcement, they have to control --

it's Ferguson -- it's their case. So, they're going to be responsible for that. They're bringing in outside help.

You know, listen, the atmosphere there, you've got people chanting in the crowds while law enforcement is standing by calmly. They're chanting "kill the police".

IVORY: Law enforcement standing by calmly.

KARDIAN: They are chanting, they are rioting and people are throwing Molotov cocktails.

PEREIRA: There are people doing that. Not all of the people in that protest audience were violently or saying these things you're saying. There were a few people, we're told, on the ground, were saying -- chanting those words you were saying. Not everybody has been.

KARDIAN: Well, the videos that I heard, it was an entire group of people. And I'm talking somewhere between 50 and 100 that I could see on the screen.

IVORY: Wrong. Wrong. You sound like a Ferguson police officer. I'm sorry. Outrageous.

PEREIRA: Mo and Steve, this obviously is a conversation that we could carry on for some time. And, obviously, more conversations need to be had about what we can do to stop the violent protests in the evening. We know there are peaceful protests going on in the day.

The investigation clearly needs to continue here. Obviously, there's a fair amount of healing that needs to happen. Mo Ivory, Steve Kardian. We appreciate it. Thank you for the passion, both of you.

Coming up next on NEW DAY, Russia and Ukraine facing off over a truck convoy headed to the border, said to be carrying aid. Kiev, though, not buying it. We're going to take you live to Ukraine's capital to tell you the latest on the standoff.

Also, Pope Francis has landed in South Korea this morning, the first papal visit to that country in more than two decades. North Korea response by how? Launching rockets.

We'll have live report from Seoul just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Welcome back to NEW DAY, everyone.

Is it humanitarian aid or a Trojan horse? That's what Ukraine wants to know about the convoy of nearly 300 Russian trucks heading to their border. Russia says they've partnered with the Red Cross to deliver aid. But the Red Cross says they have no idea what Vladimir Putin is talking about, with no agreement on such a convoy.

Ukraine has already banned the trucks, fearing they carry troops or supplies for the pro-Russian rebels.

I want you take a look at this map right here. The Russian/Ukrainian border is a hot bed of tension, thousands of Russian troops are still near the border. The Russian convoy took off from a military base in Voronezh this morning after stopping for a day, not clear exactly where those trucks are headed. But they're traveling toward a checkpoint near Kharkiv in Ukraine.

And now, Ukrainian leaders fear the convoy maybe heading south to Luhansk in Ukraine, closer to the pro-Russian rebels.

So, what happens when the trucks arrive at that destination?

I want to bring in CNN correspondent Will Ripley live in Kiev this morning.

Good morning, Will.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Lots breaking here right now, because there are serious concerns here in Kiev, that that Russian convoy may try to force itself into the Luhansk region, where there's been intense fighting for days, citizens have been cut off from the outside world for more than two weeks now, or nearly two weeks now. They need the help, they need the humanitarian aid. But there are fears that this convoy, as you said, could contain other surprises. For example, weapons to help the pro- Russian rebels who are engaged right now in an intensifying battle with Ukrainian soldiers.

Also breaking right now, we know that a convoy of Ukrainian aid, escorted by the Red Cross, is also trying to move into the battle zone as we speak. If that convoy could make it safely, it would be the first aid for these families who have been suffering now without electricity, without water, without communications with the outside world.

In the meantime, within the last hour, Vladimir Putin is speaking in Crimea, pledged that Russia will do whatever it takes to stop what he called the bloody chaos in eastern Ukraine.

The question on the mind of people here in Kiev, does this mean that that convoy could try to force its way in? And just minutes ago, the parliament here passed legislation, John, laying the legal groundwork, which would allow Ukraine to issue sanctions against Russia if they take provocative action.

A lot going on and we're watching right now, John.

BERMAN: A lot of movement, Will, both figuratively and literally. Watch that convoy, see how far it gets. That may be where the action is today.

Will Ripley in Kiev, thanks so much.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now to South Korea, where Pope Francis is making historic first-time visit. But just before he arrived, North Korea launched at least three short-range rockets, the last one fired about half an hour before his arrival.

Erin McLaughlin is in Seoul following all the latest developments.

Good morning, Erin.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate.

Well, a total of five short range projectiles were launched from North Korea today, three while the pope was in the air and then two after he had landed here in Seoul. Now, at no point was the pope's safety in danger. They were short-range missiles fired to the east. Pope Francis' plane was coming in from the west.

But it does illustrate this growing divide between the North and the South that Pope Francis today said he wants to help to bridge. Now, he met with a South Korean delegation, including the president earlier today, in which he called for peace and reconciliation, saying peace is the work of justice.

And he called on South Koreans to reaffirm their resolve. Now, he has an entire mass dedicated to this issue scheduled for Monday. According to media reports, North Korea had been invited to send a delegation. That invitation was declined. That, coupled with the welcome that the pope received from the North Koreans this morning it seems increasingly difficult for Pope Francis to be able to get this message of peace and openness across the DMZ. Kate?

BOLDUAN: I sure would say so. Erin McLaughlin in Seoul for us. Thank you, Erin. Thank you very much.

Let's turn now to Money Time. Its CNN Money Time. Your money (inaudible) correspondent Christine Romans is here. You're taking a look at the housing market?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am.

BOLDUAN: Please tell us good news.

ROMANS: Well, new signs that its continuing to improve. With that comes a brand new CNN Mney survey of three big myths about buying a house. Myth number 1, buying is always a great investment. If we learned one thing from the housing market crash, its that real estate isn't always a sure thing. Home prices have risen less than 1 percent a year over the past decade. The S&P 500 has returned more than 8 percent. Myth number two, buying is better than renting. With the housing recovery in full swing, some markets are simply too expensive for home buyers now. If a house costs more than 15 times the yearly cost of renting, then renting is the better deal. 15 times. That's your number to know. And number 3, buy the worst home in the best market, in the best neighborhood. Remember that? You think you can flip it, make a profit? Not always. It could be a money pit. Make sure you have an engineer's report and estimate how much the repairs will cost. If you want to test how savvy you are when it comes to home buying, head to CNNmoney.com and take the quiz for yourself. BERMAN: Well, thank you for shattering all the financial planning that

I have done for the last, like, ten years.

ROMANS: Wow, I was wrong on all of those. Berman's face just falling.

BERMAN: Wow, I appreciate that. That makes me feel great.

BOLDUAN: 15 times, that's interesting. That's an interesting number to keep in mind because I didn't actually know there was --

ROMANS: We'll get mortgage rates later this morning, too They're still very, very low. Mortgage rates are still very low.

BOLDUAN: There's good news for you. There you go.

BERMAN: One piece.

Alright, next up for us on NEW DAY, tear gas.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN (voice-over): At least one molotov cocktail. Gunfire filling the streets of a Missouri town. Protesters there furious over the police shooting of an unarmed black teenager. We're live on the ground. It's been a long night. We'll have the very latest.

Plus, U.S. air strikes helping thousands of stranded Iraqis escape ISIS militants. A rescue mission now seems unlikely. The big news overnight. We'll have the very latest, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP))

BOLDUAN (voice-over): U.S. officials say a mass evacuation of refugees trapped on Iraq's Mt. Sinjar is far less likely, that's their wording, to happen. That's because the U.S. military assessment overnight really found that there are fewer refugees trapped than previously believed. But the fight against the militant group ISIS is far from over. So, where does that leave us?

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BOLDUAN (on camera): Here to discuss managing editor "Quartz", Bobby Ghosh and CNN global affairs analyst Kimberly Dozier. Good morning to both of you. I mean, I keep saying this over and over. What a wild change of events, what a different place we are this morning than we were just yesterday, Bobby. What do you make of it? The fact that we saw this video of this dire situation, which they believed it really was, of tens of thousands of people stuck on Mt. Sinjar. They think there are far fewer people up there and the people that are caught up there, they think are in relatively good condition. So, this mass evacuation rescue mission is far less likely to happen. What do you make of kind of the state of play now? BOBBY GHOSH, MANAGING EDITOR "QUARTZ": Well, it shows you the

advantage of having actual eyes on the ground as opposed to sort of cameras in the sky.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

GHOSH: And it also shows you that when thousands of people are fleeing and you're relying on them to tell you what's going on, they are traumatized, they are in crisis and they are not trained to give you a sort of fair assessment of the situation. Also, it shows that the combination of American aerial fire power is and the creation of these corridors is working and lots of people are getting off that mountain, which is something to take some comfort from. It doesn't end the problem. What's going to happen to these people? Under what circumstances will they be able to go back home? And meanwhile, ISIS still exists, is opening up new fronts. This morning we heard that they're opening up a new front near Baghdad. This is a classic case of whack a mole. So, phase one, which is to try and get those people off the mountain, is going well, but it's only phase one.

BOLDUAN: Well, and that's the big question, I think, Kimberly. I mean, I've seen some reporting. We've heard from top State Department official Brett McGurk overnight. We broke the siege on the mountain. Is the siege of ISIS really broken, do you believe?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, they might have broken the siege on that mountain, but that's not the only area where Yazidis are under threat. I've been speaking to Yazidi Americans who have been talking to their relatives who were captured, who couldn't get away from ISIS fighters. They're in Islamic state prisons in Mosul and other locations. They are talking about horrific conditions. One man is in touch with his sister. She was separated from her husband. She and her children were trucked, along with a lot of other women and children, and described conditions under which the ISIS fighters come in, they take the young women out. Some of them have been raped and then returned. The older women were taken away, never to be seen again, just like the men. And the women and their children don't know what's going to be done to them.

BOLDUAN: And I think this leaves us in a confusing place, if you will, from what the United States' role is going for. It seemed pretty clear going into just yesterday, Bobby, that ee were going to this mountain to evacuate and help the Yazidis that were stuck there. That seemed pretty clear. The boots on the ground question, that was going to be debated no matter what. Now it seems that the United States, in terms of their role in the crisis unfolding in Iraq, seems a little bit more unclear. What do you think the U.S. role is?

GHOSH: Part of the reason is because the president has slowly backed into this because his instincts are to stay away from the crisis. But the crisis has imposed itself on him. Now, he defined it in two categories. He said we're going to get those people off the mountain and we're going to protect Erbil, where there's a large American population and where we have a longstanding alliance with the Kurds. We're getting the people off the mountain, we're now learning. It looks like the ISIS advance towards Erbil at least has been halted. Now, what happens next? Do we simply walk away? Do we say it's all over? Or do we recognize the fact that ISIS remains a large, clear and present danger across Iraq, in multiple places and that if we walk away, they'll come back to that mountain. They'll come back to Erbil. We've sort of put a bandage on the situation right now. We need to figure out what we do long term.

BOLDUAN: And Kimberly, what do you think that is? This temporary effect, if you will, in halting the progress of ISIS? It's not going away. They seem to only be getting stronger and using what they've done in Iraq as propaganda to get more people to their cause. Is the United States' role a smart one at this point, which is we're not going to try to take out ISIS? We're just going to try to stop them and halt them from taking on our personnel in Erbil or going up to threaten these folks on Mt. Sinjar.

DOZIER: Well, I think what it does is buy time, it buys time for the Iraqi government to form for the Prime Minister designate Haider al- Abadi to establish power and his control over the army.

BOLDUAN: And that is a huge question, Kimberly. Where is the Iraqi military at this point? I mean, it's clearly nowhere.

DOZIER: Well, even Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, though, he's contesting the new prime minister designate and is suing to get himself reinstated. He is telling the army to stay out of politics. So, that's a good sign. The question is, what will the Shiite militias do? But while the U.S. is helping the Iraqi army maintain security, it buys time for that process to shake out. But it also gives the White House time to assess how much do they want to get involved with air strikes? For the Iraqi army and the Peshmerga to retake territory, U.S. military officials have told me their private assessment is that it's going to take American air power and intelligence helping them focus their strikes in a way that pushes the ISIS fighters back. Got to remember, the ISIS army is being helped and directed by former Ba'athist military commanders. So they have got that wealth of experience behind them and that's why they're so effective. The U.S. has to decide how much it wants to get involved in helping Iraq and the Peshmerga push them back.

BOLDUAN: And that does, and of course, bear the question of how long is a long term engagement when the president said this could be months that the United States could involved. Kimberly Dozier, Bobby Ghosh, thank you guys. Thanks so much.

DOZIER Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Alright, we're following all of the news coming out of Iraq, but a lot of news happening this morning. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN (voice-over): Overnight, Ferguson erupted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now they're firing into the neighborhoods, into the back of people's houses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There has been death threats to many of our officers.

BOLDUAN: The witness who captured this video says she also saw the shooting unfold.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He turns around, faced the officer, put his hands up and the officer continues to shoot him until he goes down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: : This morning over a dozen U.S. air strikes proving effective.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Think carefully before you get into military interventions. I think that's a lesson of the last ten years that the American people have internalized.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN (on camera): Good morning and welcome back to NEW DAY. John Berman is here. Chris Cuomo is off today. After five nights, there is still no slowing the protests on the streets of Ferguson, Missouri.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

BOLDUAN (voice-over): Overnight, police clashed again with demonstrators, fuming over the police shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown. Take a look at this video from a local radio station. Authorities used tear gas and flash bangs to try to break up the crowds there after they say molotov cocktails were thrown. Almost two dozen people were arrested, including two reporters who were working, one sitting at a fast food restaurant.

BERMAN (voice-over): Officials are doing what they can, they say they are, to stem the confrontations. Missouri's governor headed to Ferguson again today. President Obama also being kept up-to-date while he is on vacation in Martha's Vineyard. Now, CNN has obtained video showing the moments after the unarmed teen was shot. Still no identification of the officer who opened fire. This as local police say they're trying just to ensure his safety. CNN's Ana Cabrera live from Missouri with the latest.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN (on camera): Ana, it was a long night.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a long night and now, John, we're seeing what appears to be the calm after the storm, so to speak. We are outside the Ferguson police station where everything ended last night.