Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Dozens of Protestors Arrested; Interview with Daryl Parks; Interview with Malik Shabazz

Aired August 19, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We're live in Ferguson, Missouri, where once again, protesters and police collide.

Police claim they were fired on repeatedly, tear gas and stun grenades come out. Two people shot by civilians. Dozens arrested. The National Guard called in, but unable to stop the mayhem.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here they come.

CUOMO: Peaceful protesters uniting, trying to stop the violence, as their community is in crisis.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, new details into the investigation over Michael Brown's death. A private autopsy revealing the unarmed teenager was shot six times, fueling the community's outrage.

Also, a friend of the police officer involved offers a different perspective of what could have happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As he stands up, Michael just bum-rushes him, shoves him back into his car.

BOLDUAN: Now, Attorney General Eric Holder heads to Ferguson to look into the investigation, as President Obama asks for calm.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Giving in to that anger only will raise tensions and stir chaos.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY continues right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: We are live in Ferguson, Missouri.

There is breaking news and I wish it were better news, hints of order were not enough to bring this community over the hump, forcing police to deal with yet another night of violence. The question is, what can be done during the day, Kate, to make tonight better than last night?

BOLDUAN: That's a key question, because every night seems to bring another round of violence and it seems to only be getting worse. This all comes as more details are starting to emerge about the investigation, that includes Officer Darren Wilson's side of the story. We're going to have more on his perspective, much more on that.

But for now let's get back to Missouri and Chris.

CUOMO: Because we do have these two parts here, right? We have the specific investigation into what happened with the shooting of Michael Brown, and these bigger issues that have taken on a life of their own here in the streets of Ferguson.

Last night, we saw it again. It started out the right way. There were protests, demonstrators, but then it went from calm to bad to worse, this despite the efforts of a drained police force to be frank, 31 people arrested.

There were two people hit by gunfire last night, did not involve the police, that was among the demonstrators. Police did have to fire tear gas. They did have to use stun grenades to try to disperse the crowd after cops said they were targeted with rocks, bottles and Molotov cocktails.

Let's get to George Howell. He was on the streets last night. He's monitoring the police activity this morning.

George, what do we see?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, good morning to you.

So, really, it comes down to crowd control, you know, police finding the right strategy to control the crowds. Fair to say it's not working quite yet and the agitators, the people inside the crowd of peaceful protesters who just came to pick a fight. We see that more and more.

The other night police lifted the curfew. They tried a different strategy, but they seem to get the same results.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are just stun grenades.

HOWELL (voice-over): Chaos on the streets of Ferguson yet again. In what was one of the most tense nights yet, police say some protesters provoked violence, throwing Molotov cocktails, starting at least two fires, even firing upon police.

CAPTAIN RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI HIGHWAY PATROL: I stood there and listened over the radio and heard the screams of those officers who were under gunfire. I went back to our SWAT vehicle and saw a gentleman laying in the back who had been shot.

HOWELL: Officers responding with stun grenades, and tear gas. Two people shot, civilians shot by civilians, police say, both expected to survive.

CNN cameras caught one protester appearing to ignite a building, flames filling up inside. Police say it was a small number of agitators who incited the violence, and their response. JOHNSON: Bottles were thrown from the middle and the back of a large

crowd. These criminal acts came from a tiny minority of law breakers.

HOWELL: Our own crews forced to take precautions.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: There's tear gas in the area here and some people are being overcome, our crew is being overcome.

HOWELL: Ferguson residents coming to the aid of this freelance photographer, overcome by the smoke. The night had started peacefully and remained that way until around 11:00 p.m. local, even in the face of heavy police presence.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Now, I want you to look at what is going on in Ferguson, Missouri, in downtown America, OK? These are armed police.

HOWELL: But the peaceful protesters unable to stop a small number of troublemakers. Community leaders even forming a human chain, walking hand in hand, to block out the agitators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's to my understanding is that one through a water bottle and it ignited the police. It ignited them, they started acting like we were regular -- at the end of this, we're going to be classed as insurgents. Nobody is out here for war.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOWELL: Night after night after night, we see these things happen, basically when one person throws a rock, that really just sparks the trigger for what we see as police response. We know overall, 31 people were arrested. We know two people were shot. Two fires were set last night.

CUOMO: George, the question becomes, is this just boiling over of the community? Or is this an opportunistic instigation in taking control of the situation, making it worse for some groups' own purposes?

George, thanks for the reporting. We'll be back with you.

Let's bring in Daryl Parks. He is the attorney for Michael Brown's family, and he is representing them, and also, though -- good to have you, counsel.

DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN'S FAMILY: Thank you.

CUOMO: -- a witness to these events. I'm big on this angle that is developing in the story the police last night, yes, they did come out heavy and strong, they're hoping it's an intimidation tactic to keep people in check. But what are you hearing and seeing and think about the idea there is an element not just angry locals, they are from out of town, they are here, they are baiting people, and they are using the opportunity to piss off the cops and create trouble.

PARKS: Well, you know, it's funny, you said that. Last time I happen on the set with Don Lemon, and I saw the peaceful protesters. They were chanting. They were walking. They were obeying the officers to keep walking and you saw the mood start to change literally between 10:00 and 11:00 Eastern, which was 9:00, 10:00 Central, you saw the mood totally change. You saw the element start to come into the mix right.

So, it's very clear and very true. I witnessed it myself last night.

CUOMO: And I'll tell you, we've covered a lot of these situations. It is unusual that there's pushback against the police and it's not owned by the protesters. Very often they'll say, yes, we're coming at them. Look how they're dressed, what they do to us. These are our issues.

It's not happening here. Everybody's saying the same thing it's not us. There's a group here from the outside, they're coming in, they're out of towners. So, that's something we have to continue to develop.

Now, specifically to the family, the investigation is starting to move in two major ways, one it's being driven by you, the other is being driven by friends of the officer.

Let's start with the officer's account, a friend who spoke to his girlfriend comes out, does a radio interview, "The St. Louis Dispatch" says they have as many as a dozen people who corroborate his story.

What does the family make of his story, which is, in short version, Michael Brown was an aggressor, when addressed by the police, an aggressor at the car, ran away when the firearm discharged, was told to stop and then after he stopped, charged him again and drew the fire? What do you make of it?

PARKS: Well, here's the reason you have to have a problem with that, right? Number one, we have to tell our version of the story for this reason. We have a chief who leaks information he leaked about Michael. Number two, when you have an investigation going on by the state and you have sources within that investigation leaking information or corroborating a story, compare that to with the federal investigation.

I've said in several meetings with the FBI representing that family, they will not tell you a scintilla of information regarding what they're doing, how they're doing it. They won't support, deny or confirm anything that's going on.

That state investigation should be the same way. They should not be leaking or supporting information of anyone. That's an improper investigation. That's why we should be concerned, Chris.

CUOMO: You've got high ground on that. Leaks are bad, right? The media doesn't like to say that because we need the leaks.

But if you don't like leaks, don't leak. You put out private autopsy, you drive a lot of the same speculation. Fair criticism?

PARKS: But realize this: I'm a private civil lawyer. I hired an expert, right? That report you saw, we asked that expert that we want to see where the bullets interact with the body. That's what we asked, that's what the chart portrays.

When you see the full anatomical chart, you'll see more, because there's more that happened within the autopsy that would be on the anatomical chart.

CUOMO: But it's inciting stuff, though.

And here, look, I'm not here to argue with you about the autopsy. You have to conduct your side of business the way you want to, but when you have Baden and the other guy look at it, but don't look at the clothes and don't know about powder burns, they can't determine trajectory but now, the information is out there in the square, getting people more heated up. But that's a tactic for you to decide.

Do you think the federal involvement, A.G. Holder coming here, unusual himself -- do you think the federal involvement, the president talking, taking this investigation for themselves, helps?

PARKS: Yes, it does. What it does, it gives the American public more confidence in the investigation. We now have seen the locals compromise the investigation on at least two occasions, right? I think having the federal government there and the great resources the Department of Justice gives greater credibility.

CUOMO: All right, so you have what's going on between you and the state, now you have the federal hopefully to marshal that.

Let's deal with what is coming out from the officer's side. Does the family accept on any level what they're hearing is his truth about why he had to fire?

PARKS: No, I think, in all true respects, you have to take everything in its totality. I think when you listen to the witnesses, plus what we have, you so he that Michael was trying to surrender to the officer, and remember now, where he was shot is at the crown of his head. This kid's head is all the way down. Michael is 6'4", so for him to have a bullet at the crown of his head means that his head had to be down and he was surrendering.

CUOMO: But you know that other forensics say or he was charging. I mean, you know when you put the fact out there, you know people can look at it two ways. Your own experts say they couldn't determine trajectory --

PARKS: But let me say this here, though, I know for a fact that the first four that hit him, he was already hit and wounded. He may have been wounded when he left the car. So, he was already a wounded man. It wasn't necessary to do a kill shot to the top of his head. It wasn't necessary and that kill shot went from back to front.

So, that charging concept, I don't totally buy in. He was already a wounded man and this guy decided to finish him off. That's what the witnesses said. We've seen that and heard that testimony

CUOMO: What do you make about these witnesses supposedly coming forward to support the other side? PARKS: They should come on. They should go public, right? They

shouldn't come through a third party, which is not the proper thing to do.

Think about the eyewitnesses from Canfield who have come forward. They came and they faced the public and said it. We should never ever accept second and third party information when we have our witnesses.

CUOMO: And obviously, look, the last thing any of us want to do is do the blame game. We don't know if any of this was justified. We don't know why the robbery information if that has anything to do with the shooting, if the officer knew or didn't know.

Going forward, is the family going to be content to let the process play out or are we going to see more of this, hey, the state said this, well here's what we said. Because, you know, you're criticizing a cycle that you're also continuing.

PARKS: Bt let me be careful. There are a few things in the investigation that should take a lot of time, one of those is toxicology, right?

CUOMO: Yes.

PARKS: The rest of the stuff there's no reason. They think it's going to take a long time, they should explain in detail why it takes a long time. It does not take a long time to find the witness, sit on that witness and get their version. If they say they need more time, why in detail do you need more time?

We will not accept just a blanket statement that I need more time, because quite often, law enforcement hides mind that. We see it all the time in America, that they want to take their time.

CUOMO: Delay as a distraction.

PARKS: Right, delay as distraction. The public demands we should get answers sooner than later and they should not be able to professionally sit back, relax and do it in their own time.

CUOMO: Do you believe it's unfair there have been no arrests or is that a nod to the idea there is process, you do want to do it right, it will take time?

PARKS: Remember now, one reason you see some outrage from the African-American community in black America, folks get arrested every day on a scintilla of evidence, Chris, and so we need not lose sight of that, that there are many people in many communities every day, who get arrested on suspicion. So, that's the America that we live in.

CUOMO: So, you think he should have been arrested already?

PARKS: Yes, sir.

CUOMO: And a grand jury is looking at it and do you expect an indictment? Is that a minimum standard? PARKS: I think this grand jury should, at a minimum find probable

cause, to let the charges move forward, because remember, grand jury is only hearing a small amount of evidence and they do it in private. We believe that the grand jury should come out with a finding and they should charge him and we should move forward with a trial in this case.

CUOMO: And to be very clear, once again, I know you say it every time but the message is more necessary this morning, perhaps than ever, the family in no way wants to see what we saw last night, right? It does not help their cause.

PARKS: It hurts them to see that and it hurts Michael's legacy.

CUOMO: Counsel, thank you very much for being here. We'll be talking to you going forward. That's why we're here to make sure the story gets out.

Michaela, back to you in New York. We know there's other news as well.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: There is, and we want to make sure folks are up to date on all those headlines. So, here we go. Thanks, Chris.

We're learning the United Nations is set to begin air lifting aid to northern Iraq tomorrow, and they'll deliver aid to Kurdish areas by sea. Kurdish and Iraqi forces have retaken control of Iraq's largest dam from ISIS militants with some help from U.S. strikes. Pope Francis joining the call for this to change, he says the militant attacks on religious minorities need to stop, but he said the international community should decide collectively how to intervene.

Israel and Hamas have agreed to extend their cease-fire another 24 hours. It is set to end midnight local time, and allows more time for negotiators in Cairo to hammer out a long-term peace plan. However, Palestinian officials say there hasn't been any progress on reaching an agreement. Israel wants guarantees that Hamas and other factions in Gaza would disarm but Palestinians are calling for an end to the Israeli blockades of Gaza without preconditions.

President Obama says the U.S. will make sure Syria destroys its chemical weapons production facilities, now that the weapons themselves have been taken care of. The last stockpile was destroyed by a U.S. navy ship.

In the meantime, the FAA has issued a no fly zone over Syria for U.S. carriers as the civil war in Syria rages on.

A passing to tell you about, the legendary voice of "Saturday Night Live" has died.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIIFED MALE: It's "Saturday Night Live"!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: That voice started my Saturday nights, when I can stay awake.

Dan Pardo passed away peacefully at his Arizona home. He was the voice of "SNL" since its premiere back in 1975, only missing one season. He began his career at NBC Radio in 1940. He was one of the first to bring word of JFK's assassination to the nation.

And he is the only announcer with a place in the Academy of Televisions Arts and Sciences hall of fame. Don Pardo was 96 years old.

What I love about this story is that apparently in the early days on Thursday, he would commute to Manhattan to do the announcement, but as technology improved, he could do it at home. I always imagine him maybe in his pajamas doing that wonderful announcement.

BOLDUAN: It's so funny because he's a face that you might not know. But that voice, oh my God.

PEREIRA: Unforgettable.

BOLDUAN: Everyone knows that voice.

PEREIRA: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Good, long life.

Coming up next on NEW DAY, many of the protesters in Ferguson say outsiders are the ones causing the violence on a nightly basis. We're going to be live with a former leader of the New Black Panthers, who is being credited with trying to keep the peace.

PEREIRA: We're also going to be joined today by the mother of Trayvon Martin. Sybrina wrote an emotional letter to Michael Brown's family. She'll share part of it with us when she joins us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up now! Back up now! Now!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Breaking news in Ferguson, Missouri. You're seeing it right on your screen, more turmoil stemming from the police shooting of Michael Brown.

Peaceful demonstrations last night certainly happened. However, they also turned into violence in the later hours. Much of that violence is being attributed to outsiders. This is a developing theme for you to keep in your mind -- there may be people who aren't even from this community who are here looking to are an opportunity to make trouble.

Now the question is, who is going to push back? Who will help this community make peace with the situation?

One man who's trying, his name: Malik Shabazz. He's the national president and founder of Black Lawyers for Justice. He was at a protest last night, doing it every night and increasing his role.

Unfortunately, last night started out the right way, Mr. Shabazz, ended the wrong way, tear gas, stun grenades, you shouting for calm.

The question is, why are you even needed in this situation? Where is this vacuum of leadership coming from?

MALIK SHABAZZ, NATIONAL PRESIDENT, BLACK LAWYERS FOR JUSTICE: Well, you know, I'm a lawyer. I fight police cases but I'm here as a man and as a father figure in the community. I'm here because I'm needed and I need others. I need men in this community and from around the country to step in and fill the gap.

These young men here are not just upset about Michael Brown. These young men have no fathers. These young men -- there's a social decay here. There's a police brutality issue around the country.

Eric Garner in New York, you know, I fight police cases around the country. It's a big problem.

And so, now we need some men and those that will come in with some authority and that will help, if we're going to try to bring some of our resolution to this situation, because there are a lot of problems here in this area also.

CUOMO: And you've been referring, you need more people at the head of pat raid, you need local leaders and elected officials and you say that these troublemakers, these instigators that are baiting the police, you believe many of them aren't from Ferguson. You're saying if it the problem's coming from outside Ferguson, the solution should as well. You want to see more national attention.

SHABAZZ: Well, it's a mix. They're outside infiltrators but they're also a problem here. You see, there is a problem with the racial hierarchy here, where there's all white police force, there is again black youth who are hopeless, in despair. Some of them really don't care.

So, when you miss -- mixed the outside infiltrators with those here like the youth that are on the street at 1:00, when all the peaceful demonstrators have gone, and they want to remain out there, where are their fathers? Where are their parents? Where are the men here in this town?

And so, there's hopelessness, despair, a lack of black men who will step in to fill the gap. This is a real problem, that it starts with Michael Brown but it goes well beyond it.

CUOMO: Men, women, you know, people of conscience and character, to come out and help certainly need, because it can't just be a standoff every night.

Now, let me ask you, as troubling as it was to see the tear gas and all the things that make television so tantalizing, do you believe last night was a little bit better than nights before, true?

SHABAZZ: It certainly was, because the number of persons that engaged, that got tear gassed was much smaller and you know, we were able to work last night to make sure it was better than the night before.

I do think that the arrest of Darren Wilson would bring some resolution to the situation. You know, everybody's crying no justice, no peace. They would like to see some justice.

CUOMO: But justice is fair -- you're an attorney you know this -- but justice is fairness under law. If they don't know exactly what happened in this situation yet, you do a quick arrest.

SHABAZZ: How long does it take to establish probable cause? Probable cause don't take this long.

CUOMO: Probable cause is a low standard legally. There's no question about it.

SHABAZZ: Doesn't take long to establish it for us. Why does it take so long for him?

CUOMO: You know, I hear a lot of that. Here's a question for you on that -- if you do not like what is done to your community, OK, it's unfair, too quick -- why would you want that same standard applied to the officer?

SHABAZZ: Well, I'm not saying that it's too fast here. I think there is enough evidence clearly for probable cause to have the arrest. I mean, he'll be out on bail, and then if he's freed because he has a defense, which I don't think so, but if he is, what's the big harm?

I think right now, you have a situation where it appears that he might not be charged at all. There might not be any justice at all, and then the evidence that's coming out from the state and the battle between the attorneys, it's leaving people in the air with the sense that nothing might be done.

CUOMO: If you were repping the officer or the police union, whoever is going to defend him and your version of events is this guy was heated up, he came at him in the car and when he was told to turn around and stop, he then rushed him and he had to shoot, would you be saying, yes, arrest him and we'll take it from there?

SHABAZZ: Of course, if I was his attorney, which I'm not -- of course, I wouldn't. Then he'd be free and you prepare your defense and get ready for trial. Obviously, you know, we have a quagmire here, and again, it's not just this case. This has been going on 20, 30 years in our community, and now it's just exploded, it's the tip of the iceberg. And so, it's not just Mike Brown. It's all the other Mike Browns that have come before this Mike Brown that have people enraged -- mixed with the despair and the hopelessness and lack of justice for our youth.

CUOMO: Now, today, during the day there's important work to be done, right? You can't just leave it to what happens at night. We all know the expression, nothing good happens the later it gets in the day.

SHABAZZ: True.

CUOMO: Are you going to try to get more community leaders together to join you at the head of the parade?

SHABAZZ: Of course, I've been begging the Nation of Islam. I've been begging the black church leaders here, and they've tried, but we have to do better.

So, we will be spending the day, trying to get the community and those who need to come here from out of town to help fill the gap, because the few of us who are out there fighting to prevent these demonstrations from going negative, and the outside infiltrators taking over from the good intentions and aspirations of those who are legitimately outraged, it's a bad message at this point.

CUOMO: Work has to be done during the day to help the police weed out the infiltrators.

SHABAZZ: Yes.

CUOMO: So that you can have the protest and let the message not be comprised by the violence.

SHABAZZ: It's time for to us stand up.

CUOMO: Mr. Shabazz, good luck.

SHABAZZ: Thank you, sir.

CUOMO: Let's hope tonight is better than last.

SHABAZZ: I appreciate you. We'll see what happens.

CUOMO: We'll be there to see it.

SHABAZZ: All right.

CUOMO: Coming up on NEW DAY: clues from the autopsy of Michael Brown. A forensic pathologist is going to tell you what he can learn about the shooting from the findings.

Also, someone who knows the pain felt by Michael Brown's parents -- Trayvon Martin's mother, writes a heartfelt letter to the family of Michael Brown. She speaks to us live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)