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New Day

Holder Promises Fair Investigation; New Tape Of Deadly St. Louis Police Shooting; ISIS Demanded Ransom For Foley; Differing Accounts of Brown Shooting; Hamas Leaders Killed in Airstrike

Aired August 21, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now that video really is startling, Chris. We also have some breaking news on one of the Americans who is being treated for Ebola in an Atlanta hospital. It could be some good news. You are going to want to hear this.

Let's first, of course, get back to Chris. Seems like as you say, Chris, a better night last night.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: And that's almost a direct quote from the police commander in charge. There was progress on the day if you look at it in balance. Attorney General Eric Holder was here in the role of peace-maker as much as investigator trying to offer reassurance and comfort here in Ferguson.

He met with Michael Brown's parents and police and others, promising a fair and thorough investigation. Twelve days after her son was killed, Michael Brown's mother was finally able to see her son's body as well.

That was a very important moment here as people observed her reaction coming out and what her message would be to them. They are still waiting for it, but the big headline was that although it was another long night.

Again punctuated by this lightning storm that was just huge and seemed to sit over the area and may very well be a reason why the protests were less dramatic.

Only six arrests overnight. The streets were lined. Voices were angry, but just hours ago, Ron Johnson, the man in charge of policing the protests, did come out and say tonight is a very good night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO (voice-over): Overnight in Ferguson, the first real hint of calm since Michael Brown was shot and killed 12 days ago.

CAPTAIN RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI HIGHWAY PATROL: You can often tell how the night is going by the radio traffic, and tonight the radios were mostly quiet.

CUOMO: One brief confrontation when demonstrators and supporters of Officer Darren Wilson collide. A very different scene from the night before, this video showing an angry police officer pointing his gun at the crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My hands are up. My hands are up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up. Hands up. Get back. Get back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to kill him. What's your name, sir? Your name is go (inaudible) yourself. Hello officer, go (inaudible) yourself.

CUOMO: A St. Louis County police sergeant steps in to diffuse the situation, forcing the officer to lower his weapon. That officer now suspended indefinitely. Attorney General Eric Holder is here meeting residents hoping to ease tension.

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We're here to help and also want to listen.

CUOMO: Meanwhile, a new witness to the Michael Brown shooting comes forward telling CNN's Anderson Cooper what he saw.

MICHAEL BRADY, WITNESS: By the time I get outside he's turned around facing the officer. He's -- he has his arms like under his stomach and he was halfway down, like he was going down, and the officer let's out about three or four shots at him.

CUOMO: This as another video surfaces showing the moments St. Louis Police shoot and kill 23-year-old Kajimi Powell Tuesday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got a gun out. They got their guns out.

CUOMO: Police had said he came at them with a knife after stealing from a convenience store. The incident further fuelling controversy about excessive force here by police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's all they want. That's all they want.

CUOMO (on camera): You believe the cops want to shoot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what they are doing. That's what we see. That's what we're waking up to.

CUOMO (voice-over): St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dodson tells us the officers acted appropriately.

(on camera): Couldn't you have done something else in this situation other than kill him?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He brings up a very good point. What about why use bullets, why not use stun guns?

SAM DODSON, ST. LOUISE POLICE CHIEF: Tasers aren't 100 percent. If that taser misses that subject continues on and hurts an officer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Now you have an incident that happens and you have how it is handled by police. Both are a fundamental importance in Ferguson right now. On the positive side, when the chief came out, Sam Dobson, the man who you just saw and went to the crowd and told them what would happen and said they would review it, it mattered.

The crime scene was dealt with very quickly. The body was covered, removed, everything was done very quickly, very different in the minds of people here than the situation with Michael Brown. That's how it was handled.

But the video itself is, again, raising huge concerns about what the police say happen and what was necessary and what you see on the tape.

Let's bring in David Klinger. He is a former Los Angeles Police Department officer and an associate professor at the University of Missouri. The name of the book to read is "Into the Kill Zone," insight into these tactical responses.

The video important enough to look at it again. Let's play the video, and then you can tell us what is right and what is not in terms of the assessments that have to be made from an officer's point of view. That man with the orange shirt is the store owner.

We'll let people watch for themselves. The voice is of the man shooting it on his cell phone. He knows this man and knows him to be disturbed mentally or otherwise. The police were not told that in the 911 call.

DAVID KLINGER, FORMER LOS ANGELES POLICE OFFICER: I think it's important right now the suspect is approaching the officers, giving him verbal commands to stand back and he moves up to the left and what I see is him going up on the high ground to launch an attack on the passenger officer.

It's tragic the individual is dead, but in a situation like that the police officers don't have any other option. The suspect is very close. If they run it all the way through, you would see that the suspect falls almost at the feet of the passenger officer.

CUOMO: All right, so now to someone who doesn't understand tactics and response --

KLINGER: Right.

CUOMO: I see him take his hand out of his pocket. He's got a knife in his hand. I'm told by the police, well, you know, he charged, lunged. I don't see coming at. I see walking.

KLINGER: Right.

CUOMO: I see commands that are not being heeded and what we don't even have chyroned he's saying "kill me, kill me." They don't know the man is disturbed. He is. To the untrained eye, it's a knife. You both have guns. You don't try to talk me down. You don't tase you. I don't lunge at you and you both shoot me six times.

KLINGER: I think there is a few things. Number one, the suspect was continuing to move towards the officers. He's seeking high ground. If I'm a police officer I'm looking at someone taking high ground.

In my mind, he's taking high ground so he can attack me and that's a tactic that any police officer is alert to. You always want to be higher than your adversary and so that's an anticipation in my mind he's going to come get me.

CUOMO: I see a guy jumping over a curb.

KLINGER: I have no idea what the officers are thinking, but he certainly could have thought that's what I would be thinking.

CUOMO: You'd be thinking high ground. This is a threat.

KLINGER: This is a threat. This man is moving parallel across my -- my plane of sight between the two of us. He is moving parallel. He's picked one of us out. He didn't go to the driver officers that is closer. In my mind this suspect has sized us up. He's decided to attack the passenger officer.

So if I'm passenger officer, I'm thinking he's going to try to kill me. He continues to move offline and then he moves towards them. The shots are fired. If you see, as the shots are being fired, the suspect goes down falling towards the passenger officer. Police officers don't get paid enough money to get stabbed.

CUOMO: So why don't you shoot me in the leg?

KLINGER: Why don't I shoot you in the leg? That would be an option theoretically --

CUOMO: Or tase me.

KLINGER: I don't know if they had tasers, but this thing happened very, very quickly. There is only a few seconds between the time he was approaching them and they moved offline and the shots are fired.

CUOMO: That's not instantaneous. They have over 10 seconds of him moving around.

KLINGER: Right, but what that shows in my mind is that's restraint from the officers. They could have shot him a lot sooner because when someone is within 20, 25 feet of you, that's perceived by most police experts to be a threat at that point so the officers, according to their training, could have shot previous to that.

CUOMO: So this doesn't shock you.

KLINGER: Not at all.

CUOMO: It shocks me in terms of we have another dead person and that's always awful and these two police officers, I feel sorry for them. This individual decided to get himself killed. I believe this was a suicide by cop --

CUOMO: A suicide by cop. That's what you think. KLINGER: That's what I think. When someone says kill me, kill me, then attacks you with a knife, I don't really know how else you can construe it.

CUOMO: Six shots from each?

KLINGER: I don't know how rounds were fired. I counted a total of nine.

CUOMO: It doesn't sound excessive?

KLINGER: No. You need to shoot and keep shooting until the threat is ceased.

CUOMO: Now everyone is going to be talking about this video. It started last night, right. The big thing is that when they say he lunged at us, that doesn't seem like a lunge.

KLINGER: All I can tell you is I viewed the thing a few times last night, the suspect is continuing to move towards the officer.

CUOMO: That's enough.

KLINGER: That's enough, absolutely. If he starts to run, these officers -- the passenger officer is going to have a knife in his gut if this suspect started to run.

CUOMO: So while it looks like casual in a long time, when someone has a deadly weapon in their hand, these types of decisions have to be made and you think the officers did it right?

KLINGER: From my view and I've been in a situation like that when I was a young police officer. A guy attacked my partner with my butcher knife, happened like that, I was on one side of the street. He was on the other. I go over to my partner's side.

By the time I got there, my partner is laying flat on his back and he was trying to drive the butcher's knife through my partner's throat. These things happened so quickly, there's no time to respond if you don't have your gun out. The officers had their guns drawn and in the appropriate posture.

And in my situation we got very lucky because my partner was wearing body armor. If he wasn't wearing body armor, he'd be dead.

CUOMO: Don't underestimate the power of the knife on the police officer and it may look like a long time, but it's just a moment to make a decision.

KLINGER: Absolutely.

CUOMO: All right, David Klinger, thank you very much. People question everything right now. It's important to get that expert look at it.

KLINGER: Thank you for having me. CUOMO: "Into the Kill Zone" is the book.

KLINGER: Yes, thanks.

CUOMO: Thanks to have you here. Kate, back to you in New York.

BOLDUAN: All right, Chris, thanks so much. Let's turn now to extraordinary revelations in the wake of the vicious beheading of American James Foley by ISIS militants. A U.S. official says special ops units were sent into Syria this summer to rescue him and other American hostages held by the terrorists, but the mission was clearly not successful.

And now we're learning ISIS militants wanted a ransom for Foley. The "Wall Street Journal" is reporting Foley's former employer "Global Post" says his captors demanded more than $130 million from them and his family. "Global Post" also says ISIS warned his family by e-mail just a week ago that he would be killed.

Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr is following all of the latest developments for us. Barbara, you were breaking the news for us when this came out yesterday. What more have we learned this morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate. One of the questions, about this raid, was the intelligence bad from the beginning, or were the hostages suddenly moved before the U.S. commandos could get there? These are some of the questions we never even thought we'd be asking.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): U.S. Special Forces launched a daring raid earlier this summer inside Syria to try to rescue James Foley and other Americans being held by ISIS. Dozens of the most elite U.S. commandos from units like Delta Force and SEAL Team 6 went in by helicopters, fighter jets and surveillance aircraft provided overhead protection.

The U.S. will not disclose the location, but when the commandos arrived, the hostages were not there. Several ISIS operatives were killed, one American slightly injured. The White House says it demonstrates the U.S. will spare no effort to secure the safety of Americans and hold their captors accountable.

Before the operation was revealed, President Obama vowed to be relentless in the face of Foley's killing at hands of ISIS.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: When people harm Americans anywhere, we do what is necessary to see that justice is done.

STARR: British and U.S. intelligence experts now analyzing every frame of the video for clues about the murder, especially the British accent of the killer. Foley's parents calling for peace.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jim would never want us to hate or be bitter. We are just very proud of Jimmy.

STARR: So far ISIS has not made attacking the west a major priority, but now the killing of Foley said to be direct retaliation for U.S. air strikes in Iraq, air strikes which are continuing around Mosul Dam to push ISIS back.

U.S. nerves running high. The State Department asking for up to 300 additional U.S. troops for unspecific security reasons in Baghdad. The intelligence community worried about what will happen next.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: It's not clear whether the leadership will now pivot towards attacking the west. There's certainly a lot of concern that they could.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: The administration says it's now revealing this secret commando mission because several news media outlets were already on to the story, but all this really goes to show just how tough it is going to be to go after ISIS -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, Barbara. And also significant in hearing for the first time that there were boots -- U.S. boots on the ground in Syria as you have been pointing out, the first time that we're hearing about this as well. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us. As always, Barbara, thank you.

Let's turn now to some more breaking news, the American doctor infected with Ebola will be released, if you can believe it, from Atlanta's Emory University Hospital today.

Kent Brantly arrived at the facility earlier this month. He contracted the deadly virus while treating infected patients. He was working in Liberia. Brantly and his colleague, Nancy Writebol, received experimental treatment before being flown to an isolation unit in the Atlanta hospital.

Brantly will make a statement about his recovery later this morning. Doctors are also expected to give an update then on Writebol's condition. Just unbelievable the turnaround that he has seen.

Going to take a break. Coming up next on NEW DAY, a grand jury has started looking at evidence in the Michael Brown shooting. We have a brand new witness coming forward as well. What he says he saw that day and what it means for the investigation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Welcome back to NEW DAY, everyone.

After a peaceful night thankfully of protests in Ferguson, Missouri, the focus turning very squarely and most importantly into the investigation into Michael Brown's death. The grand jury is starting to look at witness statements which are already beginning to contradict each other. Take a listen to -- here's a sample of it. When a brand any

eyewitness, his name is Michael Brady, what he told our Anderson Cooper. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Did you see him running towards the officer in anyway?

MICHAEL BRADY, FERGUSON RESIDENT: No, not after when he was running away, no, not at all. Like I said, by the time I come outside, I'm thinking that he's now hit after I seen the officers shooting at him while he was running away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: But this eyewitness heard off camera, this next eyewitness heard off camera right after the shooting seemed to see something very different. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police got out and ran after him. And then the next thing I know he's coming back towards the (INAUDIBLE). Police had his gun drawn already.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Running after him. What will these differing accounts mean for the investigation? What does it all mean as we're all talking about this, especially since these have come out so publicly?

Let's bring in Paul Callan, CNN legal analyst, to discuss this, as well as Mo Ivory, attorney and radio personality to continue our discussion.

So, what do you make of this? I mean, this is just two, Paul, two eyewitness accounts of the many we're hearing coming out. But on this, can they both be accurate?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, they can't both be accurate, but it shows how seeing something from different perspectives may change your opinion about what you're seeing. Eyewitness testimony is kind of unreliable inherently.

What surprised me about this last night, I was watching Michael Brady being interviewed by Anderson Cooper, and I said, boy, this guy is really believable. I mean, he's calm. He's mature. He's not one of these kids who, you know, maybe you'd be worried that his testimony wasn't accurate.

BOLDUAN: He also said there are things he couldn't know. He couldn't hear if there was a back and forth between them. He said I was still behind the window.

So, he was -- it seems he -- CALLAN: Well, then, also, I -- one of the things that he said that I

think is going to hurt him is about the shots. At first he said, no, I didn't hear a shot fired at the beginning of the incident when the struggle in the car was taking place, but then he kind of indicated that he knew other people said there was a shot.

So, you're wondering is he being influenced by what he's heard as opposed to what he saw. So -- he's -- I think he looks to be a very good witness, but he'll be contradicted by other witnesses and that creates reasonable doubt in a criminal case.

BOLDUAN: What do you make of this especially, this specific, this new eyewitness, Mo, and the impact that these conflicting accounts that are now coming out can have on the investigation?

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY: You know, Kate, I don't find them to be so conflicting actually. I don't necessarily agree that they are, you know, spark opposites. I think depending on the time that these eyewitnesses came into view of what was going on, it seems pretty consistent to me. The things that I see on the witnesses that have testified to seeing what happened, that seem very consistent to me, is that there was an encounter -- initial encounter. Then, there was a running away by Michael Brown.

And there was a shooting while there was a running away. There was a turning around and there was a falling.

I see that as being pretty consistent, what this person said and what Dorian said. What -- I mean, I don't see as much as everybody else does, such inconsistencies, especially if you look at the time frame that these different witnesses came into view of the incident.

BOLDUAN: Well, maybe here's then the important question that I haven't asked yet. What do you think then is the important moment, if you will, in this investigation to focus on in these eyewitness accounts? They are all telling kind of long stories from their memory. What is the moment that you think is the important one for investigators to be honing in on? Is it the tussle at the car? Is it the running away? Is it the turn around?

Which one is it for you, Mo?

IVORY: For me, the most important part of this is the excessive force used after the four shots. What seems to be very consistent is he was now facing the officer after the four shots to the arm, and he was going down. The most crucial thing to me is why at that point did the two more shots come, especially the one shot to the head, that was the fatal shot, because we wouldn't even be talking about a death right now if we didn't have to examine that exact moment.

BOLDUAN: How much weight is -- when you point out as Mo points out that she doesn't think they are so conflicting. Eyewitnesses are going to tell a different story because they're going to tell a different story as hen they tell it. How much weight is put on these eyewitness accounts? I would say, quite a lot, since there are only a couple of people who saw every -- who the two people involved have very different accounts of what happened.

CALLAN: Well, this case is developing into a prosecutor's nightmare, because --

BOLDUAN: Why?

CALLAN: -- sometimes when you have too many witnesses, you're struggling sometimes to find a witness.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

CALLAN: And in this case you have so many witnesses and a good defense attorney is going to create reasonable doubt by saying look at all of the conflicts in the testimony. Even these witnesses don't know what happened, and what is does the officer say? He says this man, this 6'4", 300-pound man ran at him with his arms out.

Now, of course, the witnesses are saying that that was a surrender gesture.

BOLDUAN: This is interesting, Paul.

CALLAN: The officer is going to think it was an aggression act. So --

BOLDUAN: And also, Michael Brady, this new eyewitness, he said he never saw his hands up.

CALLAN: Yes. And how does that square obviously with two other witnesses, the two women who testified. They both had him with his hands up. So, these are direct contradictions.

BOLDUAN: When you take all of this into account, Mo, when do local and federal investigators, what do they do with all of these accounts? I read federal investigators have now interviewed hundreds of people.

IVORY: Sure. They gather -- that's why you keep hearing that this is going to take a while, and, you know, I'm not against it taking a while because I really do believe that they need to really find the consistencies, and it is a prosecutor's nightmare. I agree with Paul. But I do think done the right way and if you make the time line and you put all the consistent statements together, if I was a juror and I was listening to one person's testimony because there's not many that are going to be able to account for what the officer did versus the people that have come out to say what actually they saw happen to Michael Brown, I think he could have a very strong case. Again, our justice system is based on what 12 or however many jurors are permitted in Ferguson, Missouri, what they will think of the evidence, so it's very hard to decide all of us right now that the witnesses are bad and they are conflicting. We have to wait until we see what is presented.

CALLAN: Prosecutor's got to convince 9 of 12 grand jurors that he has a case.

IVORY: Yes, in the grand jury right now. CALLAN: Yes, in the grand jury. And that's -- that's the standard he

has to meet to get an indictment.

IVORY: Sure.

BOLDUAN: And then the prosecutor, he said that he could be mid- October is their target for when they would like to wrap up presenting all of the evidence to the grand jury, so there will be a lot to come out.

IVORY: Sure, that's just the grand jury case.

BOLDUAN: That's -- exactly. That's what we guess we can now call the first step of what we need to find out. What then. We all have to wait for.

Mo, Paul, thanks, guys. It's really interesting today. Thank you so much.

We're going to have much more from Ferguson coming up. What did Attorney General Eric Holder tell the community? What was the impact of his visit?

But, first, a new wave of violence in Gaza. An overnight air strike killing Hamas leaders, and a new threat aimed at Israel's main international airport. We're going to talk about that, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Welcome back.

The Gaza conflict really erupting again overnight. Hamas says three of its senior military leaders were killed in an Israeli airstrike on a house in southern Gaza. This comes as Hamas issues a warning telling international airlines not to fly into or out of Israel's Ben Gurion Airport.

CNN's John Vause is following developments live in Tel Aviv.

How serious are they taking this threat?

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I guess they take all the threats that come from Hamas fairly seriously, Kate. But the Israeli military says seven hours since the Hamas warning did in effect come into effect one rocket has been fired from Gaza towards Ben Gurion Airport here. It landed a few miles south of here in an open field. Hamas did say that it had fired an M-75 long range rocket towards the airport.