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Interview with Missouri State Senator about Ferguson Protests; White House Discloses Failed Rescue Attempt of U.S. Captives in Syria; Dorian Johnson's Attorney Recounts Mike Brown's Shooting

Aired August 21, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Senator, it's good to have you.

STATE SEN. MARIA CHAPPELLE-NADAL, (D) MISSOURI: Thank you so much.

CUOMO: It will only be made better when change is made. You are in the change business. What can you do for these people?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, I've been on the ground since day one. And I saw a lot of people the first night when people were noticing all of the changes in the community, when they saw the killing, when they saw the body for four hours of Michael Brown Jr. And there was a lot of hurt and a lot of anger.

And what I've learned since I've been on the ground, just being with the people, is that they have been harassed and they have been intimidated, not just in this situation, but for the majority of their lives, a lot of young people angry. And so what I wanted to do is be there for them and help redirect that anger to positive action, and that's what I'm in the process of doing.

HANNITY: And then you're going to have the balance between what you can do in terms of changing police but also what the community needs to address for itself. I want to ask you about that, but, first, I have seen you here. You've been here. That's true. You're not just wearing the pin. Your governor has not been on the ground. A lot of you guys have not been on the ground. There's a vacuum of leadership. And I think that's one of the biggest distinctions between what we're seeing here in Ferguson and what we've seen elsewhere around the country when this happens, because Ferguson is not alone. That's why we're here as national media. Where are you guys? Where are the leaders?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: I have to tell you that I, too, am very upset and disappointed in many of my colleagues, because we have a group of people who have been ignored. They have been undereducated. They don't have jobs. They live in despair. And we have to address those things. And so that's why I'm here because I want to listen to younger people.

But the important thing is you have to understand the culture of these young people. We're just not like everyone else. We all have different personalities because of our culture, and so what I've tried to do is to listen to them, and what I know from this is that they needed to get out some of these feelings.

And so they see themselves as Michael Brown. Any given situation, they are Michael Brown. Wrong place, wrong time -- they have the same experience. And what I've found is many of these young people, not all of them, but many of them, they were willing to die. I literally have held back some of my constituents who wanted to incite police officers, and I had to tell them I don't want one more death, not one more death, and I literally have held them back, and I've held crying men who have just been in despair because they felt as though their first amendment right was taken from them. They have children, mothers who are crying in my arms as well.

And so I've been wanting to hold them and let them know that we're here, Antonio French, myself, to listen to them, but also redirect this energy so that this does not occur ever again.

CUOMO: You've got situation with national media, state senator, impressive, important position, alderman, it's good to serve your community but we're not talking about the high rankers here. No disrespect, senator, and I have seen you here and that's you doing your job and I respect that. But the governor should have been walking around with the A.G., should have been taking him everywhere here, I'm going to be on it. That's what you see. And I think the community reads that. They know who cares about them and who doesn't. And everybody takes matters into their own hands when there's a vacuum of leadership.

How much, though, based on what you just said do you have to put back on the community? If you do things to antagonize police, bad things will happen.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Yes, yes.

CUOMO: If you do bad things when you protest and you loot, bad things will happen.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Yes.

CUOMO: Right now the police are taking a beating. Is it fair?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, here's what I will tell you. They used excessive force at the very beginning. What I have learned in recent days is that a lot of the weaponry that was used has come from the 1033 program, which our governor actually supported. And I'm learning about that. There is a program that we can give for terrorism purposes weaponry for local municipalities as well as counties. And the -- the tools that were used against us, and I was tear-gassed twice, not once but twice last week, was used against my constituents. And so that has not come to light yet. And so that's why I'm speaking about it --

HANNITY: What's the problem? The equipment that they had, or they need to use it because of the behavior of the constituents?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: No, no. So here's the problem. Because of the looting two Sundays ago, we were being blamed, peaceful protesters. We were many blamed for the looting. I'm not a looter, and the 150 children, young people that I was surrounded by when we were tear gassed for three hours Monday before last, that was not because we did anything at all. If I felt uncomfortable then I would have left earlier in the evening, but we were on a one-way street, one way in, one way out.

HANNITY: You can't treat everybody the same way.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: You cannot. And that is what they did. They used excessive force and intimidation. Now since Captain Johnson has been on the ground, things are so much better. But I don't think they confused us with either being insurgents in Iraq or the looters, and what we were doing was being peaceful.

But I'll also tell you this. There are some elements in the crowd of protesters, elements that were not -- for the majority were not from the state of Missouri, and we had to get them out. And so I'm very happy that police officers identified who those people were to get them out.

CUOMO: With the help -- one of the untold stories, we've been trying to tell here on NEW DAY, with the help of the community, leaders like yourself and just community leaders saying this guy is not from here. He's teaching these young guys how to make Molotov cocktails. They're angry. They're going to do it. Get them. And the police have been working with them. That's a very positive sign.

Here's what we know. Johnson last night, Captain Johnson from the state police, he's in charge of this immediate situation -- no Molotov cocktails, no tear gas, no shootings. That is not a standard for a good night in America, and if that's the standard here the battle is over before it's even fought. Leaders like yourself, you've got to talk to your governor. He's in your party. He's your guy.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: I tried.

CUOMO: If there's not change made, if there's not better communication between this community and the police that are supposed to protect it, there will be no progress. You know that. That's why you're here on the ground. I hope the other leaders hear the message, otherwise you're going to have problems. You've got people who are angry and you've got police who are here to keep the peace. You're going to have problems.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Yes, that's correct.

CUOMO: Senator, thank you for being on the ground. Thank you for telling people that you are trying to make a difference because they need to have it here.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Thank you.

CUOMO: Good to have you on the show. All right, so where am I going? Back to New York. Let me give it back to you, Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Chris, thanks so much. We'll get back to you in just a second.

Now let's turn to new developments in the aftermath of the horrible beheading of American James Foley. A U.S. official says special ops units were sent into Syria this summer to rescue him and other American hostages held by the terrorists there, but clearly the mission failed. Also, Foley's former employer, "Global Post" is now telling the "Wall Street Journal" that is had demanded $130 million ransom and had warned his family by e-mail just a week ago that he would be killed.

Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is following all of the latest developments for us. Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate. A secret U.S. mission into Syria in this summer, several dozen commandos sent in to try to rescue James Foley and other American hostages. They were sent in with the intelligence that the hostages were at a particular location in Syria, but when they got there the hostages were not there.

So where are we? The question now may be was this an intelligence failure by the Pentagon? They said they had information. Was the information wrong? Was the intelligence bad, or did the hostages suddenly get moved by ISIS militants? It is a good thing that of course the U.S. commandos were not hurt, not killed. One was slightly wounded. We might be talking about this slightly differently this morning if the U.S. commandos had been hurt or any U.S. personnel killed on this very dangerous mission. They did get into a fire fight with ISIS.

The question now is, what will the U.S. do next? The air strikes in Iraq against ISIS are continuing. In fact the U.S. ambassador in Iraq asking for 300 additional U.S. troops in Iraq on the ground for security missions. So the fight continues against ISIS, the mission to rescue the hostages failing, a very difficult situation in the coming days. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Barbara, thank you so much. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us.

Let's continue talking about this. Foley's barbaric death is drawing strong condemnation from every corner, including from President Obama. White House Correspondent Michelle Kosinski is following all of those developments for us. Michelle, you said it yesterday. He used very strong words in talking about this, understandably calling it a cancer. But did you hear any suggestion of any change in policy?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, the continuation, it was more like a continuum, laying out what had happened in the past, justifying American action, which we've heard from the president before, and then continuing on, saying basically that the U.S. will not stop and it will use whatever action is necessary when American lives are in danger.

It's interesting how this information came out, too. I mean, obviously someone within the government felt that it was necessary for the public to know that this rescue operation had happened. And when the president was here and giving this address, strong words against ISIS and vowing to keep fighting them, there was no mention of it. It was only later that the national security team put out a statement saying the president authorized action at this time because it was a national security team's assessment that these hostages were in danger with each passing day.

Unfortunately that mission was ultimately not successful because the hostages were not present. And the national security team wouldn't give any more detail, even on when it happened, saying it's sufficient to say that it happened earlier this summer. And they said they had no intention of disclosing it. It was only when the press started to get wind of it that they say that they felt forced to acknowledge that this had happened.

So in terms of a change of policy and how we react to these situations, not necessarily. Even in terms of, you know, the question has come up with, do we negotiate with terrorists? That's come up again and again. It's not as if anything is going to change here, but keep in mind that when it is necessary or deemed necessary by the government, several times that we know of in the past the U.S. has negotiated with terrorist groups, whether they are designated that way at the moment or not. We know that it has happened, and other countries have done the same. There really seems to be, as always, a case-by-case assessment of what needs to be done at the time, Kate.

BOLDUAN: A horrible ending to this one case, that's for sure. Michelle Kosinski traveling with the president in Martha's Vineyard, thanks so much, Michelle. We'll continue to follow that story. There's a lot else going on, though. Christine Romans is in for Michaela this morning looking at our headlines.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Kate, thank you. Breaking news this morning, Dr. Kent Brantly, one of two Americans infected with Ebola, will be released from an Atlanta hospital today. He contracted the deadly virus while treating infected patients in Liberia. Earlier this month Brantly was flown to Emory University Hospital in an isolation jet. His colleague, Nancy Writebol, is still recovering in an isolation unit. The hospital is expected to make the announcement about her progress today.

An Israeli air strike overnight in Gaza taking out three senior members of Hamas' military wing. It comes a day after Hamas accused Israel of trying to assassinate its military commander. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed to press the offensive to stop rockets from being fired into Israel. Hamas is now warning all international airlines to avoid using Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport.

The Supreme Court has put same-sex marriages on hold in Virginia. That order came as the state was preparing to issue its first same-sex marriage licenses today. A federal appeals court struck down the state ban on gay marriage last month. Several states that had similar bans struck down had petitioned the Supreme Court for a decision and that court is expected to take up the issue during its next term, Kate, in October. BOLDUAN: What is next? We'll follow that. Let's go to our

meteorologist Indra Petersons now who is keeping track of the latest forecast. Please tell me it is starting looking better.

INDRA PETERSONS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It depends on where you are, how about that? If you're in the Midwest today we are going to be talking about the threat for severe weather. Take a look at all of the showers really affecting so much of the country today, the jet stream really far to the north. The problem is already in Chicago. We're looking at 45-minute delays heading out to Chicago O'Hare. Keep that in mind. The thunderstorms are already ramping up out there.

Look at this, Minneapolis, Des Moines, Chicago, Indianapolis, and Cincinnati all had threat for more of the heavier thunderstorms or stronger thunderstorms out there, even an isolated threat for tornadoes in those regions.

Otherwise watching that same kind of boundary making its way into the northeast bringing light scattered showers through the region today. Starting to look better by the second half your weekend, we'll see it taper off.

The other stories, you're going down to the south or if you're already there, it is ugly. We're talking about not only all that moisture, that humid air, right, but then all these temperatures are in the upper 90s. Take a look at difference once I add that factor in. Look how hot it is, and it's still climbing as we go towards the weekend. So we're really dealing with excessive heat here. Meanwhile, where you have the showers it actually kind of feels nicer, even 60s in Boston today. New York City is feeling like 77 degrees, so definitely feeling a lot better in that region.

I just want to point out that we are going to be watching a 50 percent chance here for a development of a tropical storm as we go towards the next week. Or you're looking better from yesterday some of the models saying it could hit the gulf, and later models now saying likely to curve out to sea, but it's way too early, and I'll be watching it.

BOLDUAN: Curve out to sea, please. Thank you so much. I know my opinion on this one. Indra, thank you so much.

We're going to take another break. Coming up next on NEW DAY, a key witness account of the moments leading up to Michael Brown's death may be unraveling a bit, or at least some are challenging it. Chris spoke with this man's attorney. Find out why he says his client's version hasn't changed at all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. We're live in Ferguson, Missouri, where weeks of confrontations between police and protesters all but came to a halt overnight. That is the good news.

Now, we also know that these demonstrations are stemming from the shooting dealt of an unarmed 18-year-old named Michael Brown. There is one person who had a very close look at the confrontation that ended Brown's life because they were involved in it. His name is Dorian Johnson. He's 22 years old. His story is the key to the investigation.

Questions are coming out about his explanation. Has his story stayed the same? What did he say? What did he tell police? Is his story credible? There's one person who knows his story better than anybody else, and that is his attorney. We spoke with him and went through point by point what he says happened. This may be the first time you've heard it. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: The way he describes it is the officer says get out on the street.

FREEMAN BOSLEY, JR., ATTORNEY FOR DORIAN JOHNSON: Yes.

CUOMO: They do not get out of the street.

BOSLEY: No, they do not.

CUOMO: And he says something to the officer that the officer takes as some kind of disrespect.

BOSLEY: Yes.

CUOMO: Backs up.

BOSLEY: Yes.

CUOMO: When he backs up, then your client says that -- opens the door into them.

BOSLEY: He says, "What are you saying?" He attempts to try to get out of the car.

CUOMO: And what happens when he gets out of the car?

BOSLEY: The car -- he's so close to them with the vehicle, he can't get the door open. My client says he couldn't even get a foot out.

CUOMO: Michael Brown doesn't do anything to the officer?

BOSLEY: Not at that point.

CUOMO: There is an altercation.

BOSLEY: There is some arguing. There is some cursing. There is some exchange.

CUOMO: Then what?

BOSLEY: Then the officer reaches out and grabs him by his throat.

CUOMO: Reaches out through the window.

BOSLEY: Through the window, with his left hand.

CUOMO: He grabs Mike Brown -

BOSLEY: Mike Brown by the threat.

CUOMO: -- w ho is like 6'3.

BOSLEY: 6'4", 275 or something.

CUOMO: So he's able to reach out of the window and grab him by the throat.

BOSLEY: Briefly.

CUOMO: Is that believable to you that you can reach out of a window and grab someone that tall?

BOSLEY: I think it's unmanageable, but I -- he say he did it.

CUOMO: You believe your client.

BOSLEY: Yes, I do.

CUOMO: All right, and then what happens?

BOSLEY: All right, so the big - Mike says, "Oh mna, why you grabbing me by my throat?" and he starts cursing and he starts moving away from him. So now the officer grabs a hold to the shirt, pulling him closer to the car.

CUOMO: Does Mike Brown hit the officer at any point?

BOSLEY: No, no, Mike has cigarellos in the store. OK, the cigarellos they took out the store? He still got them.

CUOMO: The little cigars.

BOSLEY: He's still got them, and so he's trying to maneuver. And, of course, you know he's big, so he's doing a pretty good job and finally he's maneuvering away and the officer says, "I'm going to shoot you," and my client says he sees a gun. And the next time, pow, and the gun goes off.

CUOMO: Never sees Mike Brown touch the officer?

BOSLEY: No.

CUOMO: Have you heard that the officer sustained injuries?

BOSLEY: I've heard now seven days later, yes, I have.

CUOMO: The chief didn't say it at one of the earlier press conferences?

BOSLEY: Well, no, not to my -- they said his face was red at one early press conference and now then his eye was hurt, and now his eye socket is all messed up. Here we are, seven days later, they just now releasing that. We don't even have a police report.

CUOMO: Has your client changed his story in terms of what you're telling me right now versus saying I did see Mike wrestling for the gun with the police officer?

BOSLEY: My client never said that.

CUOMO: All he does is hear the gunshot after a threat from the officer that he will shoot?

BOSLEY: Yes. But they are at the car. Mike is trying to get away from him.

CUOMO: Trying to get away, but you say your client never touches the officer in terms of hitting him.

BOSLEY: No.

CUOMO: He's just trying to get him off him?

BOSLEY: Trying to get him off.

CUOMO: So maybe there was contact but not aggressive assaultive contact.

BOSLEY: Possibly.

CUOMO: That's a fair statement?

BOSLEY: Yes.

CUOMO: So then they run.

BOSLEY: They run.

CUOMO: The officer says -

BOSLEY: Now there's three cars stacked up - the officer has his car parked in the street, so there are three cars that are stacked up behind this car. My client runs behind the first car and he gets down, OK? Mike runs by, he looks and sees him, says, "Keep running, bro." So Mike runs back. Here comes the officer close behind. The officer doesn't see my client so he stands up and he starts looking. He sees the officer shoot, fire some shots at Mike. He's of the opinion that Mike is hit with one of these shots.

CUOMO: Does he ever hear the officer say stop?

BOSLEY: No.

CUOMO: He never hears him say, "Stop or I'll shoot."

BOSLEY: No.

CUOMO: He never says, "Put your hands up"?

BOSLEY: No.

CUOMO: So did he ever see Mike Brown turn around and put his hands up?

BOSLEY: Yes.

CUOMO: He did?

BOSLEY: My client did, yes.

CUOMO: All right. So what does he see. As Mike Brown moves past him, what did he see?

BOSLEY: He sees the officer runs right behind him.

CUOMO: OK, and then what?

BOSLEY: All right, he says the officer then fires, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. He then says one of the shots he believes hits Mike because Mike flinches, he turns around with his hands up. The officer closes the gap and fires on him several more times, striking him in the head.

CUOMO: Did your client ever say that he was shot in the back?

BOSLEY: My client said he -- yes, he did say that, all right. And so now the up a reports shows that he was sit six times. Dr. Baden also says that, of those six times, one shot in the arm that could have been fired from the back.

CUOMO: Right, he's unclear about trajectory.

BOSLEY: That's right.

CUOMO: But it may have been.

BOSLEY: That's right.

CUOMO: OK. So he does certainly see him turn around though at some point?

BOSLEY: Oh, absolutely, yes.

CUOMO: And what happens when he turns around?

BOSLEY: The officer fires, continues to fire, pow, pow, pow, pow, pow.

CUOMO: Does Mike Brown move?

BOSLEY: He falls forward.

CUOMO: He falls forward -

BOSLEY: Flat on his face.

CUOMO: Does he charge? BOSLEY: No.

CUOMO: Why do you think he gets shot in the top of the head?

BOSLEY: I think he get shot in the top of the head because he's shot on the way down.

CUOMO: So your client's story has never changed?

BOSLEY: No. My client's story has not changed since the time he sat down with the FBI, the Department of Justice and the prosecutor's office seven days ago.

CUOMO: Did it change before that?

BOSLEY: No.

CUOMO: In any way at all?

BOSLEY: Well, it possibly could have. Now, eyewitness testimony, you know, it varies, I mean, but people give an accurate account of what they saw. It may vary in some respect.

CUOMO: If you take his story at face value, how unusual is it for an officer to use this much force in this kind of situation?

BOSLEY: Well, the thing about this case with Mike Brown, Mike is just the beginning of many other cases like this. These are not uncommon cases here.

CUOMO: You're saying shooting at a guy six times as he's running away and just turning doesn't shock you.

BOSLEY: Not in St. Louis.

CUOMO: Given the impact that this story has had on this community and everything that's going on here and the eyes that are on Ferguson, do you believe that your client can be believed to be truthful about what happened that day?

BOSLEY: I believe that 12 people sitting in a box observing my client's demeanor, his speech, his appearance, and the way he articulates and present this case, I think he is credible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Freeman Bosley, Jr, by the way, was the mayor of St. Louis from 1993 to 1997, so he understands the culture and the situation here very well.

A few things to keep in mind. The injury to the officer will be critical in assessing the credibility not just of the version of events that you just heard from Mr. Bosley, but in terms of the justifiable nature of this situation. But it's not enough, because this altercation doesn't end at the car. So even if Mike Brown has punched the officer in the face and really hurt him, still makes a decision to get out of the car and pursue. The idea at shooting at somebody who is running away six times is going to leave a lot of room for investigation of why that would have happened and could it have happened that way, which takes you back to the credibility of this version of events.

There's no question there's lots of witnesses. You've been hearing about them, and the officer is one. But this kid's story, this 22- year-old's story, will be critical.

Last thing to think about as we go to break, while Bosley was telling me that story, we were surrounded by people. And those storm clouds were coming in. And just as he got to the point of Mike Brown being killed, literally the skies started to open up with lightning and rain. And it was a very bizarre moment for the people there because, for many of them, they had never heard the full account of what it was, and it was the first time they had to think about it and then the rains came.

We're going to take a break here on NEW DAY. When we come back much more out of Ferguson, Missouri.

But, first, a new push to find and punish terrorists behind the murder of journalist James Foley. We are learning now information about a secret mission to rescue the captured journalist and others that failed. Why did it fail? And now will the military make another rescue attempt for another American who is still held captive? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)