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New Day

Cristobal Strengthens Into a Hurricane; Alleged New Audio of Michael Brown Shooting; Obama Approves Surveillance of Syria

Aired August 26, 2014 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: I want to show you this drone's eye view of damage from that powerful earthquake that shook California's wine country. Private drone owner Evan Kilkus recorded the damage to some of the historic buildings, homes and businesses in the downtown area of Napa and post it had on YouTube.

You can see this. Look at this. Terrible damage. Dozens of homes and buildings are now considered uninhabitable. Many of them have been red-tagged because the walls or the roofs might just collapse.

An area hospital said it treated more than 200 patients. One is still in critical condition.

Gives you an idea of the scope because we've seen footage from the ground and we know it was bad, 6.0, and there's been a series of aftershocks, but that really gives you an idea.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: It does.

And some of those buildings I think were retrofitted -- I mean, were designed to withstand that and even they suffered damage.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Didn't so well.

CAMEROTA: Right, exactly.

All right. Well, there's trouble in the Tropics. Hurricane Cristobal has formed in the Atlantic with sustained 75-mile-per-hour winds.

Meteorologist Indra Petersons is here to tell us how the East Coast will be affected.

What's it looking like?

INDRA PETERSONS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We're still talking about this making its way out to sea. But it doesn't mean we're not going to see any effects on the Eastern Seaboard.

Yes, now, a category 1 hurricane, weak hurricane, 74 miles per hour, makes it a category 1 right now, sitting at 75 miles per hour -- expected to go right between Bermuda and the outer banks staying as a hurricane even as it enters cooler waters before dissipating but we are going to be watching. Look at surf. I mean, so many people are headed to the beach ahead of Labor Day weekend. So, 5 to 7 foot surf along Florida and making its way to the outer banks, still looking for that heavy surf, even though this system is hanging offshore.

Another side of this, of course, is the strong rip currents. Not only do you have Cristobal out here, but, of course, you also have this dome of high pressure. So, with that you're talking about a high rip current even out there towards the mid-Atlantic. So, that's one side of the equation.

Keep in mind, on the opposite side, the East Pacific, guys, this was a huge story, a category 5, a rare system was hanging there and dissipated to a category 2, but you're still talking about this very rare to come all the way into southern California. This is going to be an epic event in their region. They're talking about 10 to 15 foot waves out there. What they are expecting that comes in Wednesday through Thursday and there's even damage possible. It appears a lot of beach erosion and even beach front properties could be taken by surprise, especially when some of the waves come up.

People go in the eddies, they try to take a look. Not what you want to do --

BERMAN: If you think the storms missed you, they're not a direct hit, but there could be an impact far, far away.

PETERSONS: Cat 5 sitting in the water.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Indra.

BERMAN: Next up for us on NEW DAY, we're going to break down this brand new exclusive audio. You need to hear it allegedly of the gunshots that killed Michael Brown. How many shots were fired? Count for yourself. Why was there a pause at one point between the shots? The audio straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

Breaking overnight, a CNN exclusive. New audio that purports to be the very moment police shot and killed unarmed teen Michael Brown. It was apparently recorded inadvertently during a video chat with something like Skype or one of those other video chat services near the shooting scene.

Now, on it what sounds like gunshots, a pause and then more gunshots. I want you to take a listen. We should mention it is a bit disturbing since they are the reported fatal shots, and you also have to try to ignore the man talking and try to listen to what's happening in the background.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are so fine, just going over some of your videos.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could I forget?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PEREIRA: So, we here at CNN cannot independently verify the authenticity of that tape.

I want to bring in our Mo Ivory, attorney and radio host, and Mel Robbins, CNN commentator and legal analyst.

I know you guys have had a chance to hear the audio.

And I know, Mo, you're hearing it for the first time. Right off the bat, first blush, what do you think, what do you hear, what do you -- what comes to mind?

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY & RADIO HOST: The first thing that I started thinking that's more than six.

PEREIRA: Mm-hmm.

IVORY: And I've always had that number six in my head because of the autopsy, but that certainly -- that first series, pop, pop, pop, pop and then a break. Obvious break and then a bunch more shots. Wow.

PEREIRA: Mel, we know our audio expert Paul Ginsberg was on with us. He says he counts 10. It sounds like 11 to us, but he says that 11 is an echo. We know he was hit by six shots.

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR & LEGAL ANALYST: Right. And they said all along, it was at least six shots. So, I don't find the number of bullets to be the bombshell here, it's the pause.

PEREIRA: Let's listen to it again so you can hear the pause. Let's play it again one more time for a pause.

ROBBINS: Listen how long it is.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are so fine, just going over some of your videos.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could I forget?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Mel, it sounds like, and, again, our expert says there's a three-second pause.

ROBBINS: Wow.

PEREIRA: What is that to you?

ROBBINS: That's extremely significant. Let me put it in the context of the legal proceedings that are going on.

PEREIRA: OK.

ROBBINS: What the pause means is a question of fact for the jury, and one of the things that's been troubling me greatly is that on the bus or train of justice, it's the prosecutor that drives it, and the prosecutor in this case, Michaela, and, Mo, is not driving the bus. He's along for the ride. And I'm extremely concerned about what's going to happen in the grand jury.

And so, this sort of pause could mean that the officer shot six times, paused, saw the hands were up and then shot again. Or it could mean that Michael Brown was lunging at him, but these are questions of fact that belong in front of a criminal jury to decide.

I mean, think about the porch shooting. A prosecutor could have decided that the resident in that Detroit house was acting in self- defense. A jury just unanimously convicted him of murder because these are questions that a jury are supposed to be deciding and this pause is a huge thing.

PEREIRA: This pause is big.

So, Mo, we know that -- we understand from the lawyer of the man that's on this audio tape that the FBI, the lawyer tells us the FBI has this audio recording and has interviewed the man. We can't independently confirm either of those facts, but that is a big part of their investigation. This is another missing link, if you will.

IVORY: Sure, and just like she said. We will not know if this information goes before the grand jury. Can you imagine if this didn't? I mean, it seems to be so important. But the grand jury proceedings are so secretive we don't know what's going in, and we also don't know what else there is.

I was shocked yesterday when I was in Ferguson and I went to the scene, how close the proximity, how small this street is and how close the apartments are. So, I would not be surprise federal there's more audio, if there's more people that were on the phone and caught stuff on their cell phones just because this street is so small, the neighborhood is so close to the street, and, I mean, I'm sure there's a ton more we're going to find out.

PEREIRA: We already learned earlier this week, I guess it would have been last week, Chris Cuomo and Anderson both speaking at that young man, who said that he heard it. That the sounds bounced round -- any sort noise, a dark barking, a child playing, a ball being thrown, bounced around between those buildings and sort of echoed and that's a very good question. What else will we find out, Mel? And why did it take so long for this

to come forward? August 9th was the shooting. Today is the 26th of August.

ROBBINS: Well, you know, investigations do take a fair amount of time.

PEREIRA: But does it surprise you that this audio came out so late in the game?

ROBBINS: No, it doesn't, actually, but what is scary is the fact that the state has moved forward with these grand jury proceedings and the federal government with their 40 FBI agents on the ground have other evidence. So, we don't know if the state, as Mo was saying, is going to be introducing this into the grand jury if they even knew that this existed.

PEREIRA: This is a game-changer then.

IVORY: No, absolutely, and I know that there's been a plea from Senator McCaskill in Missouri for the federal investigation to be in line with the grand jury so they can come out both at the same time with their findings so there's not one, you know, set of findings and then the FBI and the federal government comes back and says something else.

So, I mean, they should be moving together with all of the stuff that they have, but, again, the grand jury is so secretive the prosecutor is so not being transparent, and it's making -- it's putting more stress on the community, especially when stuff like this comes out.

PEREIRA: It's so interesting, too, that everyone collectively, supporters, people that were vocally voicing consternation of what went on in Ferguson, supporters of the police officers, supporters of the family. Everybody took a pause yesterday as they laid Michael Brown to rest and now it sounds as though with this new audio and the fact that people are really seeking justice, this is going to reinvigorate things.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: You know, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Go ahead, Mo, first.

IVORY: I was going to say -- there was a pause yesterday at the funeral and at the church, at Friendly Temple, but there was not a pause at the scene. When I went to the scene, there were still people, there were still cameras and still, you know, trucks going on so there was the respect of what was happening at the other side of St. Louis but still attention at the scene yesterday.

PEREIRA: Mel?

ROBBINS: The other reason, Michaela, that this is a very significant piece of evidence that actually puts you right at the scene. We only have the photos of Michael Brown lying in the middle of the street. We don't have any video of the actual context, and now, though, we have audio that actually emotionally puts you right there, and that's a major development, Michaela.

PEREIRA: So, a jury will hear this, Mel?

ROBBINS: Absolutely.

IVORY: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBBINS: Let's put it this way. I don't know that a jury will hear this, because as I mentioned before the prosecutor drives the bus in the system of justice, and what has troubled me, it's that the prosecutor has not made a very clear position about whether or not they are committed to prosecuting this case, that they are committed to bringing charges. He's basically said he's going to give the grand jury every scrap of paper and then they will figure it out.

And that is a bunch of malarkey. The prosecutor always knows going into the grand jury what he or she hopes the charges will be, and we do not have that in this particular incident.

IVORY: Mel is right.

ROBBINS: If he doesn't think he should prove a case, he should say so.

PEREIRA: Mo, final thought?

IVORY: And they should -- and they should appoint a special prosecutor because his behavior is showing the signs of him not vigorously going after this case, and it's time for the cries for a special prosecutor to be heard.

PEREIRA: Mo, Mel, great conversation. Thanks for walking through it all with me. This new audio tape, as you said, it sounds as though it's a game-changer certainly in the investigation.

Alright, we want you to weigh in on this new development and all the others. You can join Chris Cuomo. He'll be conducting a Facebook chat at 11:00 a.m. Eastern, right on our Facebook page, about what happens next in terms of the investigation. Facebook.com/newday is where you can find that.

Coming up, breaking overnight. The U.S. is stepping up surveillance over Syria, trying to get a clearer picture of ISIS activities and location.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

PEREIRA (voice-over): Are air strikes next?

(END VIDEOCLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: The United States may be one step closer to taking military action against ISIS in Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CAMEROTA (voice-over): President Obama has authorized air surveillance to gather intelligence of ISIS strongholds in the country.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

CAMEROTA (on camera): But Syria has warned the U.S. not to take unilateral military action without consulting its government. Let's discuss all of this with Mike Baker, he's a former CIA covert operations officer and president of Diligence, a global intelligence and security firm. Mike, great to see you.

MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA COVERT OPERATIONS OFFICER: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: So, air surveillance, how well can air surveillance target ISIS positions and their activities?

BAKER: Well, I mean, using manned and unmanned surveillance is going to provide us with a much better target package than what we've been dealing with in the recent past, primarily satellite footage and using intel sources, so this is a step in the right direction if what we're talking about is significantly degrading ISIS' capabilities in Syria and that's where they got it all started. I mean, they've been working now for months and months to consolidate their territory that they hold in Northern Syria. In fact, they have taken an entire province in Syria, so, you know, I'm afraid when we talk about mission creep - -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BAKER: - - and the need to try to figure out how to defeat ISIS. We're not just talking about Iraq. If we're willing to do this then the White House is correct. I mean, we've got to be looking into Syria.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but it sounds like air surveillance is an imprecise science, particularly in targeting their activities. I mean, if we want to know what ISIS is doing on the ground, doesn't this require some level of, as they say, boots on the ground, even that's a small, covert, special operations force?

BAKER: Yes, you're absolutely right. Yes, it does, and so I think that the White House, they have been spending a lot of time talking about what they are not going to do and I think from a strategic point of view, from a tactical point of view, that's not really a good idea when you're talking about fighting an enemy like ISIS. You know, its better just to get up there, say look, we're going to do what we need to do in concert with our allies and get the job done, rather than box ourselves in. So, air surveillance is -- is, again, a step in the right direction,

but you're right. We're going to need access to -- to the ground, whether through our troops or through our allies. The Turkish military, quite frankly, is a key to this area and ISIS is right now working very hard to take territory along the Turkish border that they have at times controlled and at times have battled with the Syrian military over. The Turkish military has a lot, the Turkish government has a lot at stake here, and so I think what we need to be doing, and I'm sure the administration is working at it, but what we need to be doing is a very aggressive effort to -- to draw in the Jordanians, the Turks, the Saudis, all those countries that have a very, very significant short-term interest in what happens here.

CAMEROTA: Well, Syria also has an interest, obviously, in getting rid of ISIS. They have warned the U.S. against any sort of unilateral action or air strikes. If they haven't approved it, how do we handle it since we don't want to collaborate with the Assad regime, how do we handle it if Syria never gives us permission?

BAKER: Well, you're absolutely correct to point this out this because this aspect of it could in fact be the most complex foreign policy strategic issue that this White House is or has been dealing with. How do we defeat an enemy like ISIS, a major threat to our national security as well as obviously to the region, without being drawn into a situation where we're supporting Bashar Assad? As surreal as it sounds. I mean, now for months, again, we have to understand what's been happening in the region. The Iranians as an example have had boots on the ground in Iraq supporting the former governor, Maliki, who has now left. The Syrian's Assad has been authorizing air strikes into Iraq. Again, in support of that government. So you look at the bedfellows that this current issue has been creating. It's very unusual, but for us, for the U.S., for the White House now, it is a major, complex issue. How do we do this? How do we move into Syria appropriately with our allies, without being seen by our allies to be supporting Assad?

CAMEROTA: As I mentioned, Syria is asking for the help of the international community. Here's what their foreign minister, a statement that he put out yesterday, "Syria is ready to collaborate and coordinate regionally and internationally to fight terrorism in accordance to the United Nations Security Council decision 2170." If we are to take that at face value, and I don't know if we should, but it means that maybe there's an opportunity for us to mend fences with this brutal dictator somehow to fight ISIS? You're cringing because that's just not possible, is it?

BAKER: Yes.

Well, it's possible, but it would mean that we would have to do a complete left turn, a complete 180 on our policy towards Assad. I don't believe this White House is going to do that. Now, you know, the way the real world works is that it may be the most pragmatic solution to turn around and say, yes, okay. As distasteful as it is, maybe we have to work with Assad. Again, I don't believe that that's going to happen, but Assad and his crew have been spending a great deal of time, ever since they started that brutal campaign against the rebels over these past few years. They've been painting it as a battle against terrorists. Now, to some degree, frankly, when we're talking about ISIS and some of their like-minded minions in Syria, then they're right, but does that mean that the White House now is going to rush into an agreement with Assad to work against this particular enemy? I don't see that happening.

CAMEROTA: Strange bedfellows indeed.

Mike Baker, always great to see. Thanks for the expertise.

BAKER: Thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: Let's go back over to John.

BERMAN: Thanks so much, Alisyn. That's just one piece of the developments going on overnight. A lot of news we're following this morning. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: U.S. reconnaissance flights could begin over Syria at any time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are well aware of the threat that is posed by ISIL.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The real answer here long term is stable governance in Syria and in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This audio, allegedly the gunshots fired during the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Its not just the number of gunshots, it's how they are fired.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We call him Big Mike. We call him Mike Mike. He said one day the whole world will know my name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't say good-bye. We say good journey, until we meet again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to NEW DAY. I'm John Berman, joined again this morning by Alisyn Camerota. Chris and Kate both off. We're going to begin with breaking news overnight.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN (voice-over): The exclusive new audio coming to light. It may be from the very moment that police shot and killed Michael Brown, the unarmed teenager in Ferguson, Missouri. It was recorded unintentionally during a video chat by a man who lives near the scene of the shooting there. We want you to listen to this. You can hear multiple gunshots. Try and ignore the conversation the man on this is having because it's a little confusing, but listen to the gunshots right here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could I forget?

(GUNFIRE)

BERMAN: Hear two sets of shots with a pause in between. CNN, we should say, has not independently verified the recording but very, very interesting.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN (on camera): Stephanie Elam in Ferguson has the very latest. Stephanie?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORESPONDENT: Hi John, when you take a listen to that audio and you hear those groups of shots, it may be disturbing for some people to hear, but when you listen to it, you can hear that there's, it sounds like to me about six shots, and then a pause, and then another four. If you take a listen, see what you hear, but try to not listen to that man talking, and listen to those shots again.

(BEGIN AUDIOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could I forget?

(GUNFIRE)

(END AUDIOCLIP)

ELAM: So, the question here is for several people that I've talked to and also just about reading this, what was happening in that pause, John? That's what people want to know. Now, we know that there's two sides to the story already. Police say they believe Mike Brown was trying to take the weapon away from the Police Officer, but witnesses on the street say that's not what happened. They say that he was actually surrendering and saying that he wasn't armed. So what was happening in that moment? This could be a key point in the investigation if in fact the FBI finds that this audio recording is true and valid and did happen at the same time that Mike Brown died. John.

BERMAN: Alright, Stephanie Elam in Ferguson for us. Let's talk about that three-second pause, let's talk about this new audio. What does it mean for the investigation? Let's bring in Danny Cevallos, a CNN legal analyst, a criminal defense attorney. Danny, you first heard this video and you thought what? DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I thought that there's a

large number of shots, possibly even more than we originally thought, and the question I think obviously in everyone's mind is why is there a pause? Now, first, is a pause explainable?

Yes, there is a set of facts that would explain a pause and, for example, the assailant could have kept charging, just an example to give. But more likely than not people are going to start thinking any kind of pause would have given an officer a chance to at least give another order or that Michael Brown might have been submitting. So I think the number of shots is problematic and obviously that pause, I think what we're also going to see from here is now that it's out there, witnesses are going to unconsciously or consciously tailor their testimony now to fit within those parameters because they will be sort of a starting point and I think that you will see that people, and no matter who they are every witness will say, yes, that coincides with exactly what I said and here's why.

BERMAN: Danny, let's listen to it one more time. Our expert Paul Ginsburg we spoke to just a few minutes ago, he counted ten shots. Let's listen again.

(BEGIN AUDIOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could I forget?

(GUNFIRE)

(END AUDIOCLIP)

BERMAN: Now, you hear that pause in the middle, the three-second pause. You say, Danny, that's a key moment because it gave the officer time to what? Time to think, which gets to the issue of what was a reasonable use of force in that instance? Maybe the first few shots were justified for whatever was going on, but then how do you justify the next series of shots? Is that what you're saying?

CEVALLOS: Absolutely.