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New Audio of Michael Brown Shooting Released; American Held by Terrorist Group in Syria Released; U.S. to Launch Flight Reconnaissance Missions over Syria; Interview with Rep. Mike Turner

Aired August 26, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now, you hear that pause in the middle, the three-second pause. You say, Danny, that's a key moment because it gave the officer time to what, time to think, which gets to the issue of what was a reasonable use of force in that instance? Maybe the first few shots were justified for whatever was going on, but then how do you justify the next series of shots, is that what you're saying?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. Well, hypothetically, let's say that an assailant was just charging and never stopped charging. That is an example of a set of facts that would explain that three-second pause. Maybe that police officer is waiting to see if a suspect stops charging. I'm talking about a fictional subject.

On the other hand, a lot of us don't use firearms, so to us that use of deadly force, plus a pause, plus using deadly force again, if you don't use firearms that often, it's going to seem a little excessive when you think of all that time to reflect, even though we don't know what's going on in between.

You know, it's interesting. Data on firearm use shows that the still plus, the brain is not as quick as we like it to be, that the message to stop shooting and start shooting doesn't move as quickly from the brain to the hand as we think. But does it take three seconds? Well, that may be stretching it.

BERMAN: That's a question that could go ultimately to a jury. Before it gets there, though, the question is will this evidence end up before the grand jury. What do you think?

CEVALLOS: Well, that's a great question, and for those people this is a great illustration of why maybe it isn't always the best thing to rush to a grand jury. This appears to be information that was only recently obtained. Maybe law enforcement has had it the entire time. But you have to wonder and in speeding to commit this to a grand jury, what other information they may miss because we're not going to hear about it for another month or so.

But in this case, you have to look at what's going to be submitted to the grand jury, how they will perceive it. But I really believe that different, reasonable people can perceive this differently, especially if they have any background in the military, any background in law enforcement. They may take a totally different perspective than someone who doesn't use a firearm ever. And I think people who have no contact with firearms, I think that their initial reaction is going to be, wow, this many shots plus a pause, not knowing much about firearms, that seems a little much to me. But, look, there is a sense of facts that would justify those shots, including the pause. Since we don't have video we just don't know.

BERMAN: And that's what makes this such a fascinating piece of evidence if it does turn out to in fact be authentic. It will be, I imagine, a key point if this ever does go to trial. It raises as many questions as it answers, so who does get to answer that question ultimately, is that the jury?

CEVALLOS: Exactly. And like I said earlier, remember, now that witnesses are hearing this audio, it's just human nature. It' snot lying, it's human nature to conform whatever evidence you have with your story. So every witness' testimony is going to jive with that audio recording. I can almost guarantee it, even though their respective stories will be on totally different ends of the spectrum. And in many ways this audio tape may cause more confusion for a jury than it will resolve issues because the audio itself will be played and then there's many witnesses, if there is a trial, who will be talking about how they perceived those gunshots at the time.

BERMAN: And, of course, the jury could then project their own emotions, their own feelings, their own experience into those three subjects. But Danny, I've heard you talk about a lot of subjects. As a defense attorney you have a lot of experience out there. I get the sense as a defense attorney if you were called on to defend the officer in this case, you find this tape problematic.

CEVALLOS: You know, it's a good point. I mean, any number of shots, going back to a juror, a reasonable juror, you think of the number of shots. And that's I think for every defense attorney thinking about this case, you know, you can put aside the initial stop, put aside all the racial issues. The bottom line is to me this is a case where have you to justify six shots. And yesterday that problem was justifying six shots.

Today it becomes justifying maybe six or more shots, plus a pause, three seconds, four seconds, enough time to contemplate. Now, certainly, there may still have been an assailant charging. There still could have been a reason for that deadly force. But, yes, you are right. Overnight the defense attorney's job in this case becomes quite a bit harder.

BERMAN: Really, really interesting, as many as 10 shots counted by our audio analyst with a three-second break in the middle. Danny Cevallos, we really appreciate your experience here. Thanks so much.

We want you all to weigh in on all these new developments. You can join our friend Chris Cuomo at 11:00 a.m. eastern time on a Facebook chat on our Facebook, our Facebook page, to discuss what happens next. That address is Facebook.com/NewDay.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, John. The fight to slow ISIS being taken to the skies over Syria. President Obama has given the green light for reconnaissance flights over Syria to get a better idea of where the militant group is organizing and how they are training. Will air strikes be the next step? Let's go to Barbara Starr. She's at Pentagon with the latest. Barbara, what are you hearing?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. The president has now given the go-ahead for reconnaissance flights over Syria. These could be drones, unmanned aircraft. They could even be manned aircraft flying at high altitudes. What the military needs to do now is collect fresh intelligence about where ISIS is exactly located inside Syria. Where are the training camps, the concentration of forces, the leadership targets, the command and control facilities? That's what they are trying to get the best, most fresh intelligence on.

Then the president would still have to authorize air strikes. And what would trigger that still remains to be determined, the White House not yet making that decision to make that step. One of the big challenges for them is how to do air strikes inside Syria without coincidentally perhaps benefiting the Assad regime what.

What would the goal of air strikes be? U.S. officials tell us they would be looking to disrupt ISIS, set them back on their heels, prove that they have no safe haven, keep them from reorganizing and moving forward even further. ISIS now controlling a very wide swath of territory across northern Syria and Iraq. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: All right, Barbara, thanks so much for monitoring that. We'll check back in with you.

We turn now to new details about the release of American hostage Peter Theo Curtis who was held captive by an Al Qaeda linked group in Syria for nearly two years. The "Washington Post" says a media mogul and a former FBI agent played key roles in securing Theo's freedom. This as Theo Curtis' mother Nancy spoke out in an interview with ABC News about talking to her son for the first time since his release.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY CURTIS, MOTHER OF PETER CURTIS: It was wonderful. Usually he doesn't have a whole lot to say to me. He's a typical guy, hi, mom, yes, everything is fine. But he was so excited, and he was saying, mom, they are being so nice to me! And they have put me in this 12- star hotel. He was over the top excited.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Peter Theo Curtis' former roommate and friend Matt Wormser. Matt, great to see you. What do you think -- I know you've been friends with the Curtis family for a long time. You and Theo were high school roommates, so, of course, you know Nancy, his mom. What do you think when you see her reaction to his release?

MATT WORMSER, FRIEND OF PETER THEO CURTIS: Oh, it's very, very thrilling, I have to say. And, you know, she's borne the brunt of the hardship over the last couple of years, and to see her so thrilled is, needless to say, very infectious. And we're just -- we're all ecstatic individually, but for everyone it's really Nancy I'm most ecstatic for, so it makes me happy.

CAMEROTA: Can you tell us what happened when you got the news that your friend Theo was going to be free?

WORMSER: It was -- we were actually down at the beach that day, and my wife had gone home to pick up a few things, and she heard on -- on voicemail Theo's cousin left a message and said, "guess what, guess what. Theo's free." And she came sprinting up to me saying he's free, he's free. Needless to say, very emotional moment, which it continues to be for me.

CAMEROTA: Of course. We can only imagine what these past two years have been like for you, his friend, and for his family. I know you likened it, having to live with a friend being held in captivity and not knowing his fate, you've likened it to having a friend with a terminal illness. How so?

WORMSER: Well, well, you're in a very powerful situation. It was incredibly -- the thing that's so difficult about it is you can't talk to him. He lives -- he lived almost in this apparition state for me for a long time. He would come up in my thoughts really throughout the day at the most unexpected times, and you would want to reach out and talk to him and think of him from time to time. I would actually e-mail him, knowing that it would never come back, just to say, you know, I'm thinking of you. And hopefully I'll get a response in the next few days, but he's got some catching to do something tells me.

CAMEROTA: He sure does. I'm sure he'll be happy to have gotten all the emails. You and his family must have been panic-stricken and devastated when you heard about James Foley being beheaded and killed while in captivity. What was that like?

WORMSER: Well, it was a -- it was incredibly difficult moment because, you know, for the first nine months we heard nothing at all, and I had known that Theo was in an extreme war zone. At that point I in my really heartfelt he was gone and it was very difficult. So in many ways knowing he was alive but held by a very extremist group was very difficult. Hearing about Jim Foley, it just underscored the unbelievable risks that Theo is facing. I knew that negotiations were -- had been progressing at that point prior to Jim Foley's killing, so there had been a moment of optimism. But needless to say, we all knew how precarious that situation was. And as you can imagine it was not -- absent any relation to Theo it was a horrifying act to all of us. But with Theo in mind it was really doubly so and I think for all of us close to him.

CAMEROTA: Do you think that his family lost hope at that point that Theo would get out alive?

WORMSER: I don't think so, the main reason being that Theo was with al-Nusra and Jim Foley was with ISIS, and I think to all of us their flavors of the same ice cream. But to the extent there were differences in terms of their approach and their degree of extremism, I think they still held out more hope while still being incredibly scared for Theo.

CAMEROTA: Do you have any idea when you'll see Theo?

WORMSER: I don't know, but it's going to be soon, and I'm sure looking forward to it, I have to say.

CAMEROTA: And it's going to be sweet. Matt Wormser, thanks so much for sharing your personal thoughts on all of this. We really appreciate getting insight into the family from you. Thank you.

WORMSER: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. Best of luck.

Wow, it's great to hear from him and how happy they are now. And his mom, who seems over the moon, Theo's mom seems like --

BERMAN: I can't believe he sent e-mails to his friend, you know, even though he knew they would never be responded to when his friend was in captivity. That's amazing.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: And able to put such a personal face on it, because this always seems so other worldly, because this brings it right back into focus. These are real people dealing with a loved one who is in captivity.

CAMEROTA: I know.

PEREIRA: Worst nightmare.

All right, let's take a look at some headlines at 12 minutes past the hour. In the Middle East we begin with an Israeli air strike blasting a residential tower to in Gaza overnight. Palestinian officials say nine people were killed, 20 were injured in that latest attack. The Israeli military said the building housed a Hamas command center. In the meantime a barrage of rockets were fired at Israel overnight, damaging a neighborhood here at the Gaza border.

Ukraine says it has captured 10 Russian soldiers who crossed the border into the Donetsk region, but Russian media says the soldiers were on patrol and likely crossed over by mistake. All of this as Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko is expected to meet with Russia's Vladimir Putin in Belarus today. The two leaders are attending a regional trade summit. They will meet also to discuss the ongoing crisis in eastern Ukraine.

The NSA built a Google-like search engine for the billions of digital records it collects. A report published on the website "The Intercept" cites documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden. "Intercept" reports the search index indexes more than 850 billion records of phone calls, e-mails, and other communications. And 23 government agencies have access to that search engine, including the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration.

Voters heading to the polls today for primary elections in Arizona, Vermont, and Florida. That's where former governor Charlie Crist is expected to win the Democratic nomination as he tries to reclaim the job. Also, a runoff for a House seat in Oklahoma. Some of the primaries for house seats actually could affect the balance of power in the chamber next year, so, of course, we'll be watching them and bringing you the results.

BERMAN: Big Tuesday. Thank you so much.

Next up for us on NEW DAY, U.S. drones, spy planes set to fly over Syria searching for the Islamic militants in ISIS. Are air strikes now imminent? We'll speak with a senior member of the House about the very latest developments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Welcome back. President Obama has authorized reconnaissance flights over Syria -- drones, spy planes. This marks a significant step forward for military action, possible U.S. military action in Syria. The Pentagon now looking at plans to strike ISIS extremists there, but the White House says the president has not made a final decision about whether to move forward with the air strikes.

Want to discuss this now more with Republican Congressman Mike Turner. He's a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.

REP. MIKE TURNER (R), OHIO: John, thanks for having me.

BERMAN: I want to try to cover some ground quickly here. Yes or no, do you support U.S. air strikes in Syria targeting ISIS right now?

TURNER: Well, I think what the administration needs to do is come forward with a plan. Right now, they have no coordinated plan. We no stated goals and objectives. The administration has inconsistent statements as to whether or not even they see ISIS as a threat to the West and United States. British Prime Minister Cameron clearly stating that ISIS is a threat to the West. This administration seems to be waffling on what the threat is and how to approach it, so it's very difficult to either galvanize the American public, or certainly Congress, behind the administration without a strategy and plan.

BERMAN: You are a leader among Republicans in Congress. What do you support, sir? Do you support air strikes right now targeting ISIS in Syria?

TURNER: Well, I think the president, if he puts together a strategy and a plan to defeat ISIS, and they need to be defeated. And certainly General Dempsey has said, in order to defeat them, it will require action within Syria itself. But haphazard military action is not a strategy or a plan, and we certainly don't see from this administration a policy.

As I look to both Syria or Iraq, the president has not put together a coordinated goals and objectives and a statement of where he's going to apply with American diplomatic effort or military effort. These isolated military actions can only result in more difficulty. The president needs to put together his national security team, the Department of Defense, and put together a plan.

BERMAN: So you seem to be suggesting something more comprehensive than just air strikes. Would you then be supportive of ground troops, special operations forces on the ground in Syria?

TURNER: Well, at this point, I think no one should say that we're going to go invade Iraq, invade Syria, or put troops on the ground. What we do need, though, is a coordinated plan. Being so far away from a coordinated plan and jumping all the way to military boots on the ground would be really irresponsible, but the president cannot do these isolated strikes without working in a coordinated fashion with our allies, with those in the region, certainly with Iraq itself, to have any goals and objectives achieved.

We have to defeat ISIS. General Dempsey has of course said that it's a strong threat both to Iraq and the United States and is certainly going to take a significant effort in the region. But these isolated acts that the president is taking have no coordinated plan or execution.

BERMAN: And I do understand, and I hear your criticism of the administration, but you certainly -- you are a leader in Congress, you're on the armed services committee, and it's your job as well to think about these things and think about what you would support, not support.

Do you think the president needs to put a plan forth before Congress that you need to vote on before further military action?

TURNER: Well, I think the president certainly has enough authority currently militarily to take action. What he doesn't have is the moral resolve or the plan that he needs in order to be able to execute that.

People are confused, both in the United States and in Congress and I think throughout the world, as to what the president's goals and objectives are. Until he does that, that we certainly don't have any degree of confidence of success.

Be assured. This is a real threat. It is a real threat to the United States and to the West, and the president seems to be taking an isolated approach to this as opposed to a coordinated plan. He needs to sit down with his national security team, Department of Defense and put forth a plan and a strategy where then Congress, and the American public, can say not only do we understand what the threat is but we understand how he intends to defeat it. And then I think he'll garner support.

BERMAN: If he called you on the phone, Congressman, and asked what do you think that we should do? For instance, I had Clark Kent Ervin, a defense analyst, in here yesterday, a very respected man, who said that the United States needs to consider partnering with Bashar al Assad perhaps. It may be worth it to partner with Assad to fight ISIS. Would you support that?

TURNER: Well, again, it depends on how this begins to unfold, but I would take the president back to his Cairo speech, because in his Cairo speech he laid out what his plan was for Iraq that was in addition to withdrawing military force, and that was working for a strong and stable Iraq, an Iraq that can have, you know, territorial integrity and self-determination, independence -- and pursuing Islamist extremists to hold them at bay. Those three goals and objectives still apply today. The president walked away from them, which is why we have the problem we do in Syria and in Iraq. He needs to reapply his own policies stated from the back of the beginning of the administration.

BERMAN: Again, I'm getting a lot from you on what the president has or has not done, but not a lot what you think yourself. Bashar al Assad, a bigger threat than ISIS? Or is ISIS a bigger threat than the Syrian regime?

TURNER: Well, Assad is a threat to his own people, and ISIS is a threat to the West and to other nations. The reason why you're getting so much about what the president should do because he is the commander in chief. He is actually in control and has responsibility for our foreign policy and he has put us in a situation where, because of the lack of definition, the indecisiveness, the uncertainty, the culture of uncertainty that the administration has allowed to unfold, we have this growing problem that the president needs to address.

Colonel Dempsey says absolute threat to the United States. Now, the president needs to put together a plan that says how he's going to address and garner the support to lessen that threat to the United States.

BERMAN: You said at the beginning there, you said Assad is only a threat to his own people, ISIS a threat to the world, including the United States. Does that mean it may be worth giving him some support or at least having a loose partnership with Bashar al Assad against ISIS?

TURNER: Well, I think, again, that's jumping way far ahead. Because this president doesn't have a plan doesn't mean that you have to say we have to partner with Assad. I mean, certainly I would turn, as the president should be turning, to General Dempsey saying, "I need a plan." What is this threat? What are their capabilities? How can they be contained and how can they be defeated?

I'd be incredibly surprised if the president, in turning to our military, would have them come back and say we have no other options but to partner with Assad. But certainly they have no options until the president is willing to work in a coordinated fashion to put together a plan. The less planning, the less our options are.

BERMAN: Well, Congressman Turner, we appreciate you coming on and talking about what the president is doing and not doing. In the future, I also look forward to hearing what you think on some of these subjects about what the U.S. should and shouldn't do as well. Great to have you here, sir.

Next up for us on NEW DAY, a new hope for peace this morning in war- torn Gaza. Could Israel and Hamas be ready to return to a cease-fire? We're live on the ground with the very latest.

Plus, the stars were out for TV's biggest night, and a few familiar favorites took center stage once again. We'll look at what won big, who was shut out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: 29 minutes the hour. Here's a look at your headlines.

CNN has received exclusive new audio said to be from the very moment police shot unarmed teenager Michael Brown. It was recorded inadvertently during a video chat by a man, an unnamed man, who lives near the scene of the shooting in Ferguson, Missouri. That man asked that his identity not be revealed. Now, CNN cannot independently confirm the recording's authenticity. The revelation happening on the same day that thousands of people packed a church for an emotional funeral for Michael Brown.

President Obama will be in Charlotte, North Carolina, today to address the American Legion's national convention. The president is expected to comment on the sacrifices made by veterans. Tomorrow the Veterans Affairs Department is expected to release an internal investigation into patient care delays. Early reports indicate it will say there's no proof that any veterans died as a result of the long waits for care at the Phoenix V.A. hospital. As you'll recall, CNN first reported the problems in medical care at the V.A. hospital in Phoenix