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New Day

NFL Changes Domestic Violence Policy; Audio Captured At Time of Brown Shooting; Russia Escalates Situation with Ukraine; Obama Doesn't Have Strategy for ISIS

Aired August 29, 2014 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: The plane crashed in the mountainous area of the Shenandoah Valley. Searchers didn't get to the crash site until Thursday afternoon, and they found the pilot still in the plane. There had been hopes he managed to eject before the plane went down. We expect to learn the pilot's name today.

And a big tease from Apple. The company says the -- a new product will be coming on September 9th. So, let's the guessing game begin. The odds on favorite is tech giant will unveil the iPhone6 with a larger screen in response to larger phones from HTC and Samsung. We could also see the debut of the rumored iWatch.

Apple's invitation to the media says, simply, "Wish we could say more."

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Could be all of the above, right?

ROMANS: Could be. A lot of rumors about the iWatch is going to be very fitness focused so it will tell John Berman to run faster. Go, Berman, go.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: You know he's doing a triathlon tomorrow.

BERMAN: I am. I may not be here on Monday.

ROMANS: Good luck tomorrow, John.

CAMEROTA: All right. Meanwhile, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell admitted that he messed up when he suspended Ray Rice for two games. So, he's making changes for how players are punish for domestic violence.

Andy Scholes has more in this morning's "Bleacher Report".

Hi, Andy.

ANDY SCHOLES, BLEACHER REPORT: Hey, good morning, guys.

You know, Goodell was heavily criticized when he suspended Ray Rice for only two games, and yesterday, he flat out said, quote, "I didn't get it right." As a result, Goodell announced new harsher punishments for players who are involved in a domestic violence incident. Under the new plan, offenders will receive a six-game suspension for the first offense and a possible lifetime ban for a second offense. This new policy applies to all NFL personnel, not just the players.

The college football season is now up and running. Last night, Texas A&M pulled off the upset, putting beat-down on ninth ranked South Carolina. In his very first start, sophomore Kenny Hill threw for 511 yards, breaking Johnny Manziel's single game record. He added three touchdowns in a 52-22 win over the gamecocks.

Everyone, including Manziel jumped on the nickname Kenny Football, Manziel even tweeting out with the #GigEm. But Hill say he doesn't really like that nickname, probably wants something a little more original.

Finally, the clock struck midnight for the young Cinderella of the U.S. Open. Fifteen-year-old CiCi Bellis lost in the second round last night. She actually dominated the second set, winning 6-0, but she ended up losing the match in three. Bellis was the talk of the tournament after becoming the youngest player to win a match since 1996. She called the experience unbelievable and mind-blowing and the best couple of days of her life.

CAMEROTA: I bet. That must have been a peak experience.

BERMAN: Well, she's 15. Like I said, two days her life, that's like 3 percent. I mean, you know, it's a big chunk of her life at that age.

CAMEROTA: And it's all downhill from here. We won't let her know that.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHOLES: Let's hope not.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Andy.

SCHOLES: All right.

CAMEROTA: All right. NATO says Russian troops are helping separatists fight in Ukraine. President Obama is threatening additional sanctions, and Vladimir Putin tries to influence the rebels. We'll talk to the former U.S. ambassador to NATO about all these latest developments.

BERMAN: Plus, an app, that's right, an app confirms that the Michael Brown shooting came around the same time of the audio that allegedly you can hear the incident. We're going to take a look at what this means for the investigation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

New insight into that audio recording that allegedly captured the spray of gunshots that killed Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. Glide, that's the video chat service used to record this audio, confirms the audio was recorded right around the time of the shooting. Now, listen to it again now and try to ignore the man who is speaking

and listen to the shots in the background.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty.

(GUNSHOTS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're so fine. Just going over some of your videos.

(GUNSHOTS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could I forget?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

ROMANS: So, CNN cannot independently confirm whether the shots heard are from that incident.

I want to bring in attorney and radio personality Mo Ivory, and forensic scientist Lawrence Kobilinsky to talk about this.

So, you know, Lawrence, when you hear those shots in the back -- and you hear the man speaking and you hear the shots in the background, Glide now saying when they look at a time stamp of that video from their internal records, from that time stamp, they can see it was right around that time, 12:02.

What does that tell us about these gunshots? What does it tell us about the event?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, you know, if this eventually ends up in a courtroom, this tape has to be deemed admissible, and in order for that to happen it has to be authenticated. And clearly it -- it needed to be time-stamped and this is what the company was able to do.

That's part of the process. We still need to know about the content, namely the shots, for example, was it the same gun that fired all these shots. They have to authenticate the shots.

The timing, of course, is really crucial because there was this three- second pause in between the first volley and the second volley. The interpretation of that is very complex, very difficult.

ROMANS: Yes, I'm sure.

You know, Mo, which brings me to the interpretation of that. If you're a prosecutor or you're a defense you could spin that either way maybe.

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY: Well, sure, and that's what's going to exactly happen, right? The prosecution is going to use it one way and, of course, defense is going to use it another. But all we have right now is the story from the eyewitnesses that talk

about what happened to Michael Brown. We don't have a story from Officer Wilson. We don't have a report from the Ferguson Police Department. We don't have any FBI investigation.

So, we don't really know what the other side of the story is. So, all we can say right now is we have these five eyewitnesses that corroborate that Michael Brown had his hands up when those second set of shots came, so that pause is crucial to putting together what at least the prosecution could present with what we know they have, and really that's all the information we have right now.

ROMANS: So, Lawrence, and every piece of information is just so scrutinized because there is no videotape. I mean, in this world of cell phone videos everywhere, this is really the only sound or only recording we have of this event.

KOBILINSKY: That's correct, and also the time line for everything involved with this case is going to become very important. And now, we can hang our hat on a particular time mark. We know when the shots were fired.

ROMANS: What is the FBI going to do, Lawrence, to, I guess, recreate those shots and where they were taken and what -- how far away this house would have been where this was recorded?

KOBILINSKY: Well, audio engineers at the FBI are going to be looking at spectrum. They are going to be looking at frequencies and amplitudes.

In short, they will have to show that it was a Sig Sauer semiautomatic that fired .40 caliber ammunitions that created those characteristic sounds. They have to verify. They have to validate that this tape has the correct content and then it will be completely admissible in any courtroom.

ROMANS: Mo, the man's voice you hear on that tape, he's so far stayed anonymous. But at some point, do you think that he's not going to be anonymous anymore, he could actually be sort of a witness.

IVORY: Oh, absolutely. I think that they will -- he already has an attorney who has made a statement, and I think his identity is only going to be coming forth very soon -- as well as all of the witnesses.

We don't even know the -- the FBI said that they interviewed over 200 -- you know, 300, 400 people I can't imagine that from those interviews that the prosecutor as well didn't interview many more people so I think there's going to be many witnesses. I think there's going to be a lot of information that we continue to find out about this case.

And I think there's going to be more people -- I mentioned the other day when I actually went to Ferguson and stood in the canfield apartments, I realize how close the apartments are to the street, so there have to be many others that heard something or maybe even saw something. I don't know necessarily captured it on video. But I have to assume that there's going to be a lot more information that we'll find out, as well as the identity of the people who are going to be giving it.

ROMANS: Mo, how important is this audio recording, I guess in the pantheon of all the different witness versions of events. How important is this sound going to be to verify what people say they saw?

IVORY: Oh, it's going to be crucial. I mean, this might be very -- besides Officer Wilson's testimony, this may be one of the most crucial pieces of information because what this says is that there was a pause. You know, that's always been what the eyewitnesses on Michael Brown's side, the supporters have said, that there was a first set of shots, a pause and then he put his hands up.

We now know there was a pause. We now --

ROMANS: I want to listen -- because I think it's really important that you're bringing that up. Let's listen to that audio one more time and ignore the man's voice. He's talking on a video chat and just listen to the background noise. Let's listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty.

(GUNSHOTS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're so fine. Just going over some of your videos.

(GUNSHOTS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could I forget?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

ROMANS: Lawrence, a pause in the middle and then firing again. The pause could be -- police are trained to shoot until there's not an advance. It could be that or it could be overkill.

IVORY: Excessive.

ROMANS: It could be -- we don't know.

KOBILINSKY: It's subject to interpretation. And, yes, it's consistent with what a police officer might do if he sensed that he was in imminent danger of harm or death. He would pause to see if the danger has been diminished.

On the other hand, the other eyewitnesses, as Mo just pointed out, would argue that three-second pause is related to Michael Brown turning around, putting his hands up and giving up, so it could be explained that way, too.

ROMANS: So, 12 seconds of sound and what we also don't know is was there a shot before?

KOBILINSKY: Good point.

ROMANS: We don't know what happened right before this two particular bursts of gunfire.

KOBILINSKY: Yes, Christine, very good point. First of all, we know ten shots apparently were fired based on the tape. The magazine of the Sig Sauer holds 10 rounds. We really don't know if there was another round in the chamber.

In other words, wee don't know how many rounds were actually fired, even now. We need to look at the shell casings.

ROMANS: Sure.

KOBILINSKY: Whether the shot was fired in the vehicle or not will come out either through a shell casing in the vehicle or gunshot residue analysis in the passenger compartment.

ROMANS: Sure.

KOBILINSKY: So there's still a lot we don't know. We don't even know if there's another videotape around to corroborate this one.

IVORY: Right, right, but one thing -- it is important if there were other shots or whatever, but this case is really going to come down to that pause. What was the officer thinking in that pause? What was Michael Brown doing during that pause?

Because it turns on whether or not there was an excessive use of force or whether or not there was -- the officer was protecting himself from imminent danger. That is going to be the key issue.

KOBILINSKY: I have --

IVORY: So I imagine all of the time line going up is going to be very important to make the jury understand what happened that night, but this case will come down to that pause.

CAMEROTA: Lawrence, last point.

KOBILINSKY: I think that pause can go either way. I don't think a decision can be made as to guilt or innocence based on that three- second pause. I think that's a piece of evidence, but there's going to be a lot more evidence.

CAMEROTA: And we don't know what evidence they have gathered, we don't know where they are in the investigation. We don't even know what the version of events is from this police officer so a lot more to discover here.

IVORY: That's right.

CAMEROTA: Mo Ivory, Lawrence Kobilinsky, so nice to see both of you. Have a wonderful weekend, both of you. IVORY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Alright, next up on NEW DAY, Russia now questioning NATO images that appear to show troops crossing into Ukraine. What's their basis for denial, and can the U.S. do anything to slow Vladimir Putin?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Welcome back. This morning Russia's foreign minister is denying the legitimacy of NATO photos allegedly showing Russian troops inside Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN (voice-over): NATO says they reveal Russian tanks, armored vehicles, artillery are crossing the border into Ukraine. The international community is now again coming down on Russia for what Ukrainian officials, but just Ukrainian officials, are calling an invasion. President Obama threatening additional security measures against Moscow, but could new options besides sanctions be on table?

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN (on camera): Want to bring in Nicholas Burns, former U.S. ambassador to NATO and a professor at the Harvard Kennedy School for Government. Ambassador, thanks so much for being with us.

NICHOLAS BURNS, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Good morning.

BERMAN: NATO releasing these photos over the last 24 hours. Really interesting imagery of columns of what appear to be tanks moving from Russia into Ukraine, self-propelled artillery. Pretty heavy weaponry according to retired General James Spider Marks. When you look at these pictures, what do you see?

BURNS: Well, there's no question that the Russian government has put troops and sophisticated technology, missile defense systems and aircraft systems in the Ukraine and that in the past 72 hours it's been the introduction of a greater number of Russian troops that have really turned the tide of the war in Eastern Ukraine, so we're looking at a completely new situation. A brazen Russian invasion of Eastern Ukraine. There's no other word to use it in international politics and what the Russian Foreign Ministry is saying today is simply not true.

BERMAN: Well, apparently some people think there are other words to use than invasion because the president did not use it yesterday when he was given the opportunity. State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki didn't seem to want to call it an invasion. Why do you think there is this aversion to using the word invasion here at the highest levels?

BURNS: I think one of the points that the president made yesterday, as I heard it in the press conference, was that this is just a continuation of what Russia has been doing for many months and that's true. Russia has been ferrying equipment and men into Eastern Ukraine for three months now. What's different is the scale of this. This is a much more substantial number of Russian troops and of equipment. It's made a decisive impact on the war, and it does require a response from the United States and from the NATO allies who will be meeting, by the way, a week from today in Cardiff and Wales, so it's a time of testing for that NATO alliance.

BERMAN: You know, it is a time of testing, and they will be meeting, as you say. They have a lot of very big decisions to make. Help me out here, ambassador, because we've already issued sanctions on Vladimir Putin and on Russia. If these sanctions have not stopped Russia from invading, using your words, Ukraine, then what good are they?

BURNS: Well, the sanctions were quite tepid at the beginning, slightly stronger as of a month ago, but the United States and Europe have not yet decided on major sanctions. On the kind of sanctions that we put on Iran that were so effective. Financial sanctions or sanctions against the Russian energy sector. Those would be very difficult sanctions because they'd hurt not just the Russians, they'd certainly hurt some of the European economies. Therefore, the reluctance in going for them, but that's the true test of the policy.

President Putin runs an economy, the Russian economy, that is very much integrated with the Western economy. He can't afford economic isolation, so he's vulnerable to sanctions. Does the West have the fortitude, the intestinal fortitude now to stand up for those types of sanctions, because that's probably the only measure that can stop the Russian government. President Obama quite rightly has taken the use of NATO military force off the table. We're not going to go to war with Russia over Ukraine, we shouldn't. So sanctions is really the weapon. The other thing that the United States and NATO could do would be to provide sophisticated military and intelligence assistance to the Ukrainian authorities so that they can protect their country. They are a sovereign state. They have the right to protect their country. President Putin is violating that right, so those two measures, economic sanctions, stronger ones, and intelligence and military support I think are probably being considered. The question is will the United States and Europe actually decide on them?

BERMAN: It's interesting. I want to look backwards here for a second because you say stronger sanctions are needed. Is that you saying that the sanctions as they are are not working? I'm asking this because the president says that they have seen evidence that these sanctions are hurting the Russian government. Christiane Amanpour was on our show yesterday and she was saying to some extent these sanctions are working, are hurting Russia, are hurting Vladimir Putin. My question again, though, what does it matter if they're hurting to an extent if he's still invading?

BURNS: Well, I think that's the right distinction to make. The sanctions have obviously had an impact in the Russian stock market and in investor confidence, in the lack of investment in Russia over the last several months so they are hurting, but they haven't had the decisive strategic impact that you want, and they haven't changed the behavior and strategy of President Putin. And so the sanctions need to be tougher to drive up the cost to him to such an extent that he understands that the price is too high to pay for this outright escalation of the activities of his own military in Eastern Ukraine. That's going to be the test to watch for next week when the NATO leaders meet. Chancellor Merkel of Germany, who's a very important leader, spoke yesterday of the possibility of new sanctions. President Obama did not really speak to that point, but it's clearly the next step that the Western leaders have to consider

BERMAN: You spoke about the possibility of providing more arms, greater intelligence, greater assistance to the Ukraine and the Ukrainian military. What would be the aversion to doing that? Why not do that?

BURNS: Well, it puts the United States more directly, not into the conflict, but directly under a roll of support for the Ukrainian government, but there's no other way. If we intend to support the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukrainian, which we should and which we must on a principle basis, it stands to reason we'd would want to give them the means to fight back against the Russians and to control their own territory and to be able to police their own streets. The administration's been reluctant to take this, but I think there are people making this suggestion, both in Europe as well as in the United States. It's another big issue on the table for the NATO leaders next week.

If they don't do that, I think President Putin has shown he's willing to go the extra mile. He's willing to raise the stakes here to make sure that he wins, and winning for Putin is destabilizing Eastern Ukraine, weakening the Ukrainian state so that it is in effect a vassal state of Russia, its a state that can't really exist without the Russian government and it's a form international blackmail, if you will, by President Putin. That's what he's trying to do, and it does need to be countered.

BERMAN: We'll see what NATO does next week. Ambassador Nicholas Burns, great to have you with us. Really appreciate it.

BURNS: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: Just one of the many events we're following this morning. There is a lot of news. Let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These Islamist extremists present a very direct threat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our strategy is much broader than just the use of military force.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't want to put the cart before the horse. We don't have a strategy yet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let there be no doubt. It's the Ukrainian military against the Russian army.

BERMAN: Ukrainian military officials say it is a full-scale invasion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What Russia called a humanitarian convoy, many others called a Trojan horse.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to NEW DAY. It is Friday, August 29th, 7:00 in the East. I'm Alisyn Camerota joined by John Berman and Christine Romans. Chris, Kate and Michaela are all off. The inmates are truly running the asylum here.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Al Haig all around.

CAMEROTA: We begin this hour with the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CAMEROTA (voice-over): Rushing to clarify comments made by President Obama on the fight against ISIS. The president says, quote, "We don't have a strategy yet." The White House now says the president was only talking about ISIS in Syria. That gaffe is providing fodder for Obama's critics who are now questioning his ability to fight ISIS.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

CAMEROTA (on camera): White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski joins us with the latest. Hi, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn. Alright, so first there was an announcement that there was going to be this big national security meeting in the situation room here at the White House, then suddenly the president was going to give an address, so, of course, everybody is waiting thinking, okay, what is going to happen in Syria? But the answer the president gave was to some surprisingly clear?

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

OBAMA: The violence that's been taking place in Syria has obviously given ISIL a safe haven there in ungoverned spaces. And in order for us to degrade ISIL over the long term, we're going to have to build a regional strategy, but I don't want to put the cart before the horse. We don't have a strategy yet.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

KOSINSKI: Okay. So, of course, critics jumped all over that, the Republican party tweeted out what is the Obama strategy? To have no strategy. But the White House was just as quick to get out there and explain, the press secretary paying a visit to CNN's "SITUATION ROOM."

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president was asked a specific question about what approach he was going to pursue when it came to possible military action in Syria against ISIL. That was a specific question he was asked, and the president was explicit that he is still waiting for plans that are being developed by the Pentagon for military options that he has for going into Syria.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

KOSINSKI: Okay, so the Pentagon is developing these options that will be presented to the president, but he made it clear that now the focus and priority is still very much on Iraq, on making sure that ISIS doesn't overrun Iraq. The Syria strategy that is forming, we now know, is much broader. The president said it will involve this regional and international coalition, longer term. It's going to have to involve some stability, at least to some extent, for Syria.

So, okay, that tells you it looks like that's going to take some time. That said, the president also mentioned that it would involve a military component, but we have to say it wasn't completely clear if he was talking about Syria there or if he was talking about the longer-term strategy involving both Iraq and Syria. He did say though that this would involve consultation with Congress and didn't want to go so far as to say he would ask Congress' permission if there was to be a military decision to be made regarding Syria. That make sense, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Sort of.