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White House Announces No Current Strategy to Deal with ISIS in Syria; Interview with Senator Jack Reed; Interview with Ret. Gen. George Joulwan

Aired August 29, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That said, the president also mentioned that it would involve a military component, but we have to say it wasn't completely clear if he was talking about Syria there or if he was talking about the longer-term strategy involving both Iraq and Syria. He did say though that this would involve consultation with Congress and didn't want to go so far as to say he would ask Congress' permission if there was to be a military decision to be made regarding Syria. That make sense, Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Sort of. It sounds like there's a lot that's still ambiguous, but you've done a good job explaining it.

KOSINSKI: I'm hearing myself explaining it saying wait a minute, I hope that makes sense.

CAMEROTA: Michelle Kosinski, thanks so much.

KOSINSKI: Thanks.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Some troubling reports this morning about the treatment of American hostages held by ISIS, including James Foley. "The Washington Post" reported, citing unnamed sources familiar with the treatment of abducted westerners, saying several captives were waterboarded several times by ISIS. This of course follows the use of the technique by American authorities to get some information from some terror suspects.

Anna Coren is live in Erbil in northern Iraq with more. Good morning.

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, as you mentioned, that article in the "Washington Post" claiming that American journalist James Foley who we saw brutally executed in that video last week, was waterboarded during the early part of his captivity, according to the "Washington Post" anonymous sources they say who were privy to the conditions that he was held in and the experience that he went through under ISIS.

Now, we also know from the French journalist who was held with him, Didier Francois, that Foley was singled out and received much more physical abuse than the other hostages and was also the subject of a mock execution. Now the White House has refused to confirm this story out of sensitivity to the families involved, not just James Foley but also to the families of other hostages currently being held by is, but they certainly say that every single hostage is at risk under the brutal control of this group, and they appeal to ISIS to release the American hostages as well as other hostages being held by this terrorist organization. John?

BERMAN: Tough to hear but important to hear given that's what the people in Iraq and Syria are up against right now and what the U.S. might come up against more in the coming days and weeks. Anna Coren for us in Erbil, thanks very much.

Russia's foreign minister denying accusations that Russian troops crossed into Ukraine, this despite NATO satellite images that appear to show troops over the border, not to mention a huge amount of equipment, fighting alongside the rebels. Vladimir Putin now with a direct appeal to rebels to allow safe passage for Ukrainian troops out of southeast Ukraine. This as the world asks how 1,000 Russian soldiers can apparently join the rebel fight and no one is responsible. Barbara Starr live at the Pentagon with more. Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. I've just spoken to a NATO official who tells me the alliance is on watch for what he calls further Russian incursions into Ukraine and an intensifying of the fighting there.

Now the estimate, again, as we reported here on NEW DAY, some 2,000 Russian troops having crossed the border into various parts of Ukraine, engaging and fighting there. So what about those satellite photos? The Russian foreign minister suggesting perhaps that those are photos that came from computer games. Well, NATO says, no. Those photos are real proof of Russian weapons inside Ukraine. They are in areas where there are no Ukrainian military forces, so whose else are they? That's the Russian point of view.

Right now President Obama suggesting in that White House press conference there is no U.S. military option for the Ukrainian situation, but Ukraine saying today that it wants to join NATO and, of course, that would raise the bar significantly. Once Ukraine would be a member of NATO the U.S. and other NATO members would have that military responsibility to come to their defense.

But the first step may come at NATO's summit next week. One of the things that we know is that the NATO military part of the alliance is going to seek permission to really step up the NATO rapid response force. These are NATO troops, including U.S. troops in Europe on standby all the time if there was to be a crisis, if Russia was to make a move against a NATO member like Poland perhaps. Now they want to step up their activities and have them on alert ready to move within hours instead of their current status that they are ready to move within days, a signal to Moscow that NATO is serious. But no new action, no new decisions at this point. John?

BERMAN: Right, the question, is Barbara, will they send more than just signals? Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us, thank you so much. Alisyn? CAMEROTA: All right, John, joining us to discuss the administration's

strategy or lack thereof is Democratic Senator of Rhode Island Jack Reed. Good morning, senator.

SEN. JACK REED, (D) RHODE ISLAND: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Let's start with the president's comments about fighting ISIS in Syria. He said, quote, "I don't want to put the cart before the horse. We don't have a strategy yet." Do you think he should have admitted that?

REED: Well, I think the president was very specific. The context was operations in Syria against ISIS. He has in fact demonstrated a strategy of protecting American interests, air strikes in Iraq directed against ISIS, working with regional powers to try to develop a better government in Baghdad, and we hope with a new prime minister that there's going to be progress there. This is a comprehensive long-term effort, but what the president is signaling is he's still looking at options that might include operations within Syria, and when those operations clarify, if he needs Congressional authority, he'll come to us. But his first and primary strategy is one he's pursued vigorously, which is attacking ISIS if they threaten the rights.

CAMEROTA: Of course, but we also know there are ISIS strongholds in Syria. ISIS has taken some provinces in Syria, so it appears that ISIS must be addressed in Syria. If you were advising the president, would you recommend air strikes in Syria?

REED: Well, I would recommend beginning to develop the kind of detailed intelligence that he is to -- we don't want to replicate some of the mistakes we made in 2002 and 2003 when we made assumptions we had in fact it turned out to be erroneous and then took military action. We want to be very careful and deliberate in this.

We also want to do it on a regional effort. It just can't be the United States. It has to be the entire region. And I think, first, what you want to do is identify the command and control elements and then the lines of communication. I would think also, too, some targets that would be available and struck more readily would be within Iraq so you could put pressure on ISIS and Iraq. And, of course, that's with the existing permission of the Iraqi government.

CAMEROTA: Sure.

REED: But there are many steps that we have to do.

CAMEROTA: Of course, but it does sound like we know that they are operating in part out of Syria. So when it comes to Syria, should we strike the ISIS positions in Syria?

REED: Well, they are obviously operating in Syria, but the question is what is the most effective way to begin to degrade them and ultimately to destroy them, and how do we do that on a regional basis, how do we do that on an effective basis? Those decisions are going to be based, I hope, on careful intelligence, not just sort of a reflexive use of military force as some have argued. That's what the president is doing right now.

Again, also, part of what we would like to do is not commit American ground forces but to try to develop on-the-ground forces that are able to assist us. Our air power is very decisive.

CAMEROTA: When you say on-the-ground forces, do you mean U.S. on-the- ground forces?

REED: Well, I think, yes. I think, you know, we want to be very careful in any type of commitment of U.S. forces on the ground. And one of the reasons why we've been recently successful around Erbil is because we were able to provide air power, but the Kurdish forces were quite capable once they had air power of pushing back ISIS, recapturing the dams and beginning to move forward.

So this effort right now, I think in particular, the president's comments yesterday, were a reflection of what we should be doing, which is coming up with a careful approach that is regional in nature, that emphasizes our strengths, air power, striking from over the horizon, and mobilizing forces on the ground to engage and ultimately defeat ISIS.

CAMEROTA: Senator, you talked about what went on in 2002 and 2003 with the Iraq war. It's interesting, you were one of only 23 senators who opposed the war in Iraq. You did not think at that time that Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat. Do you believe today that ISIS is an imminent today to the U.S.?

REED: Well, I think you have to begin analysis with the worst case frankly, and that's what the president is doing now and his national security team. What are the capabilities and intentions of ISIS? What can they do? And I think you start off with the assumption that to protect the American homeland, let's accuse the worst case and then let's look at and verify what they can do, how we can prevent them from taking these types of actions. I think what we saw in 2002 and 2003 was more of an ideological get some evidence that suggests that they might be a danger to us and then just go forward. That's not the approach, and I think we've learned from that experience.

And a lot of what's being done today is a much more careful evaluation of the actual capacity and the actual threat to ISIS. But I would not dismiss ISIS as some type of, you know, just aberration or strictly local phenomenon. I think we have to treat them first cut as a very capable and very potentially dangerous force.

CAMEROTA: So given what you know, do you think that today they are an imminent threat to the homeland?

REED: I think, as demonstrated by their actions, they were certainly an imminent threat to our interests in Erbil, our interests in Baghdad with our huge embassy complex, and in that case the president had no choice but to take military action. I think what we have to develop now is sort of a more detailed analysis of whether they have the capacity to exploit and export their terrorist activities beyond the region.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

REED: And that's being done around the clock today.

CAMEROTA: Senator, very quickly, we know you'll be meeting with President Obama later today. What will you be discussing?

REED: First, a welcome to Rhode Island, and second, I'm sure we'll touch on these issues, not just the issue with ISIS and Syria and others but also the issue of Ukraine which we're talking about, too. Very challenging, this is a time where we have to be very careful, very thoughtful, and leading to decision. I mean, this is not just putting things off. It's making sure we make decisions based on fact and hard policy on the ground, not just our best wishes and thoughts --

CAMEROTA: Yes, of course.

REED: -- and our ideology and slogans.

CAMEROTA: All right, we'll look forward to hearing what comes of this meeting. Senator Jack Reed, thanks so much for joining us.

REED: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right, we will be talking more about this later this morning with Pentagon spokesman John Kirby and White House spokesman Josh Earnest, so stick around for that.

Right now let's get to Christine Romans in for Michaela for some of the other top stories. Hey, Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Alisyn. Let's take a look at those top headlines. U.S. officials trying to secure freedom for 43 U.N. peacekeepers detained by armed militants in Syria. They are being detained near Syria's border with Israel following a rebel takeover of the space this week. Another 81 peacekeepers trapped in the surrounding area. These peacekeepers are from the Philippines and Fiji.

And 20,000 people in West Africa could eventually be diagnosed with Ebola. That's the word this morning from the world health organization. The U.N.'s health agency rolling out a half-billion dollar roadmap to better tackle this outbreak, including treatment centers, community awareness, and safe burials for victims. The death toll has now climbed to nearly 1,600.

The Tavurvur volcano in Papua, New Guinea, erupted today, sending volcanic ash spewing and smoke as high as the eye could see. Look at that. Communities near the volcano were evacuated. Residents in a nearby town were urged to stay inside to avoid falling ash. Air travel north of Australia could be disrupted depending on how the winds shift. This thing also erupted just last year.

BERMAN: That's an ash plume.

ROMANS: Ash plume, that's exactly what that is. Good news for drivers this Labor Day, John, Labor Day weekend. AAA

says the cost to fill up your tank is down an average of 11 cents a gallon from last year, the national average, $3.43 a gallon. South Carolina has the cheapest price with an average price of $3.17 per gallon of regular. The steepest prices are Alaska, Hawaii, and the pacific north northwest.

And the ALS ice bucket challenge has raked in buckets and buckets of donations, $94 million and counting in just under a month. Donations to the ALS Association 34 times higher now than compared with the same time last year. The group says it's still deciding how to spend this money after the sudden cash infusion. Everybody is doing it.

BERMAN: A PR lesson for everyone.

CAMEROTA: It really has taken off. It's so great how everyone has embraced it.

BERMAN: Terrific cause.

Next up on NEW DAY, Russian President Vladimir Putin now calling on pro-Russian rebels to let Ukrainian troops retreat. He is now begging the world for help. A key NATO meeting today, we're going to speak live to the former head of NATO.

CAMEROTA: And more information is coming to light about the second American killed fighting alongside ISIS. What compelled the father of nine to join the terror group?

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BERMAN: Vladimir Putin taking the rhetoric regarding Ukraine to a really alarming new level just moments ago. He's comparing the action of Ukraine's army to that of the Nazi troops during the siege of Leningrad in World War II. Russia's foreign minister also with a brazen denial this morning to NATO satellite photos. He's saying, they could be from computer games. NATO says they show Russian soldiers joining separatists in their fight in Ukraine. NATO has called an emergency meeting to address the crisis, following pleas from officials in Kiev.

For more on this, let's bring in U.S. Army retired General George Joulwan, the former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO. General, thank you so much for being with us.

Let me ask right off the bat, you've seen these NATO satellite photos from across the border in Ukraine. Does that look like a computer game to you?

GENERAL GEORGE JOULWAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.): No, of course not. And it truly -- NATO has the ability to gather those photos, so I believe they're the real thing.

BERMAN: And when you hear a foreign minister of a nation like Russia call something like an image from a computer game, when you hear the Russian president say that what Ukraine is doing is tantamount to the Russian siege of Leningrad in World War II, does that rhetoric concern you?

JOULWAN: I've heard it before from Russians, and before that from the Soviets. That is their way of trying to hide what is really an aggression of a sovereign state, Ukraine.

BERMAN: You call it an aggression. Is it an invasion?

JOULWAN: Call it an invasion, an aggression, it is violating the sovereignty of a sovereign state and that's against international law.

BERMAN: When you see those pictures again, those -- the tank, the column of tanks moving in there. There are self-propelled heavy artillery in there. Does that indicate to you the sanctions that have been levied by the United States and Europe over the last several months have had not the desirable effect?

JOULWAN: They've had some effect but not the desirable effect, which is to stop the Russian meddling in Ukraine, stop Russian troops and equipment from going into Ukraine.

Remember, they had some very sophisticated air defense systems that shot down a civilian plane. That was sent in by the Russians. And so I think we've got to really now figure out what are the next steps? What are the options? And having this NATO summit in Wales next week where the president will be attending with 28 other heads of state is going to be extremely important in laying out the options. He may say we don't have a strategy, but I think the alliance is going to look to the United States and to NATO for options.

BERMAN: What do you think those options should be, besides sanctions? Are there options besides sanctions at this point?

JOULWAN: Well, I believe there are. I think we need to be able to beef up what the Ukrainian military has in terms of its weaponry and enable -- to enable it to defend itself. I think you have to be very careful about, in the air defense area, because Russia has brought in some very sophisticated equipment. Can we help the Ukrainians counter some of this?

So I think it's going to take not just U.S. but NATO resolve here to demonstrate that Europe, whole and free, does not include Russia meddling into the affairs and invading other countries.

BERMAN: Russia already has invaded other countries, at least according to many people looking at situation right now, perhaps looking at those NATO images of some 1,000 Russian troops with heavy armored equipment inside Ukraine at this point.

Russia's got a very powerful military. Is there any assistance you can give them in terms of weaponry, the Ukrainians, that could ever counter Russian movements if Russia fully intends to keep its troops there?

JOULWAN: Not really. Unless you really -- you know, I don't think -- remember, now, Ukraine is not what we call an Article 5 country. They're not of the 28 nations of NATO, so they don't fall under that guarantee. But they do fall under a proposal that we had called the Partnership for Peace, which talks about respect for the territorial integrity of other countries, and that is being violated.

I don't think we're going to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. I believe we need to really take some steps to isolate Russia in the international community for what it is doing. This is unacceptable behavior in the 21st Century, and we ought to call it that in the international forum that we're involved in. That includes the United Nations and the G-8 and other things like that.

BERMAN: There's no possibility of U.S. military action in Ukraine; the president made that clear yesterday in his news conference. He also said something yesterday which has caused a lot of smoke and fire here in the United States. He's said there is no strategy yet for dealing with ISIS in Syria.

I want to move away from the political debate about that for a second and look at the military implications of that statement. What does that send? What signal does that send to the ISIS militants, whom you might be fighting at some level some weeks or months from now, to say that we don't have a plan yet. We're not going to be bombing today, tomorrow, or next week. We're going to take our time here. Does that give them a window?

JOULWAN: I don't believe that gives them a window. There is some -- to be prudent here about how to -- how to go to war by the United States against ISIS, which is not even a recognized state. So I -- I think that there is a reluctance here to lay out all the -- all the strategy right now without understanding what that entails.

For example, Syria has a very sophisticated air defense system. If we're going to really do air strikes in Syria, that has to be taken into consideration. And ISIS is challenging the regime. It's the enemy of the regime in Syria, and how do we sort all of that out?

I think we need to have clarity here of what that mission is, what it is, before you start sending in air strikes or troops. What is the clarity here of what the end state is that you want to achieve? We didn't do that in Iraq. We didn't do that in Afghanistan. We didn't do it in Vietnam. We've got to do it if we're going to get involved again.

BERMAN: Do you think the president's doing it so far?

JOULWAN: Not yet. I don't think -- when he says we don't have a strategy, no strategy is a strategy. And I think, you know, that is waffling a little bit in my opinion, and I think the senior military leadership, I know, are working their butts off here trying to get the sort of options before the president that he could then really get before his advisers and before the NATO alliance. This is a very important time for the President of the United States to lead, and that's what's going to be required.

BERMAN: Having been in that type of situation before, one of those generals providing advice, does it burn them to hear the president get up and say there's no strategy yet? JOULWAN: I don't think so. I know the leadership at joint chiefs

level and I know that they're working hard to provide those options. But what is militarily possible may not be politically possible, and that's the balance you have to get in a democracy and that is what I think is taking place. And Congress plays a role in all of that as well as the president.

BERMAN: General George Joulwan, great to have you with us. Really appreciate it.

JOULWAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: We have new details about a second American jihadist killed fighting for ISIS. We are learning more about what may have led him now down that fateful path. Stay with us.

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