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Drone Strike Targets al-Shabaab Leader; Interview with Sen. Angus King; Americans Held in North Korea Give Interviews to American Journalist; Interview with CDC Director Tom Frieden on Ebola Outbreak

Aired September 02, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's start once again with Elise Labott live this morning in Washington. Elise, what more are we learning?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, Somali officials are saying that the leader of al Shabaab Ahmed Godane and his deputies were holding a meeting of top commanders in the rebel- held village that was hit by the U.S. That meeting how to withstand this ongoing offensive by the Somali military, the African Union aiming to flush them out from the region, but the U.S. is not acknowledging whether Godane is the target quite yet.

The Pentagon says it wants to assess the success of the operation before commenting, and that is because we've been here before. Earlier this year a U.S. drone strike killed a high ranking al-Shabaab intelligence officer. Godane was not killed, and Godane has really been the driving force between al-Shabaab's close ties to Al Qaeda. He's pressed for the group to launch attacks outside Somalia.

But it's unclear, you know, what's going to happen now and whether they are killed. Kate, there's been an ongoing struggle between al- Shabaab and the Somalis for control over the prisons, and just a day earlier one of the main prisons in this area is Mogadishu was targeted by this group. They stormed there. They launched a car bomb, and that's because they wanted to freeze some of their inmates that are believed to be held in the prisons. Many prisoners suspected of being al-Shabaab members or having links to the group being held there. So we're not sure if that's part of this attack, this drone strike that happened overnight, but clearly a lot of activity right now in Somalia, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely right. First and foremost we have to know more about who was targeted and whether or not it was a success overnight. Elise, thank you so much.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The man who called for that strike, President Obama leaves for Europe today ahead of this week's NATO summit. The crisis in Ukraine obviously front and center, along with a new proposal from NATO for a quick reaction force to counter any aggression there, specifically from Russia. Also on the agenda will be how to contain the spread of ISIS.

Let's get to Michelle Kosinski. She's live at the White House this morning. Michelle, everybody has got an idea of what the U.S. should be doing. There is only one man who is going to ultimately call the shot. What do you think the president's agenda is when he gets to Europe?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Remember, it was less than a year ago that everybody was taking about this identity crisis that NATO had, you know, what should we be doing. Oh, yes, we have summit coming up in Wales.

But then Russia effectively invaded Ukraine, and now the talk is about Ukraine possibly joining NATO. The other member states, the smaller neighbors of Russia looking around and reminding the larger member states that at the heart of the NATO treaty is collective defense.

Now NATO is talking about putting together this rapid response military force. So that's one of the reasons why President Obama added the stop in Estonia before the NATO summit. He's also going to be meeting with Latvia and Lithuania, reassuring them. The U.S. called it an iron-clad commitment to collective defense.

And then, plus, the west now has this ISIS threat looming, so among the goals of this NATO summit will be assessing the effectiveness of the international response to both Russia and ISIS and seeing what more will be done. President Obama is going to be wanting to lead those discussions and whatever action will be taken, Chris.

CUOMO: It will be interesting to see is this the opportunity for NATO to become the "We." We always say who is going to do something? We'll have to. Who is we? It will be interesting to see if NATO steps up, if the president can motivate that. Michelle, thanks very much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Let's continue the discussion. Let's bring in Senator Angus King, independent senator from Maine who sits on both the Senate intelligence committee and the committee on armed services. Senator, good to see you. Thanks for coming in.

SEN. ANGUS KING, (I) MAINE: Kate, it's great to join you. Boy, there's plenty to talk about this morning.

BOLDUAN: There sure is. Let's get right to it.

I wanted to ask you first, especially from your perch sitting on the Senate intelligence committee, what you have learned if the committee was briefed on this operation in Somalia overnight. Have you heard anything more this morning?

KING: I haven't heard anything more this morning. I think this is part of the ongoing efforts of the administration to use lethal force when necessary to try to decapitate some of these organizations. Leadership is important, Kate, and I think that was the target of al- Shabaab, and clearly similar kinds of strikes taking place against ISIS. I think that's part of the strategy of the administration.

BOLDUAN: And one question still this morning on that Somali raid and operation is whether or not it was successful and who exactly were the targets. Have you gotten any suggestion of that yet? KING: No, I was in touch with my top security guy this morning about

20 minutes ago, and we did not have any word of a of right now what the results were. I think the outlines of the purpose of the strike have emerged, but I don't think we will know for another probably hours if not days whether or not it was successful.

BOLDUAN: This all comes, of course, as President Obama is facing increased pressure and a whole lot of criticism among his approach in how to deal with ISIS, specifically in Iraq and Syria. I wanted to get your take. Senator Dianne Feinstein, you know her very well, she is the chairwoman of your committee, she also had some very important words about the president's approach, saying that this has shown that he is cautious, maybe too cautious with regard to ISIS. Do you agree?

KING: Well, I think it's a real challenge. You know, the president is in kind of a box. The public wants a strong, muscular president that takes action on our behalf, and yet at the same time the public doesn't want another war in the Middle East. There's a little bit of schizophrenia on the part of the public.

I never saw anything like the reaction we had a year ago when the president was talking about strikes in Syria with regard to the chemical weapons. People didn't want us to do it. And yet at the same time they criticized the president for not being aggressive enough. I think they are trying to find the right balance.

I do think one way they could be I think more effective and more aggressive with regard to ISIS is to strike in Syria. Iraq is where ISIS is headquartered. ISIS has ignored the Syrian-Iraq war. I don't know why we should pay too much attention to it.

Kate, ISIS is the real deal. They are a real threat in a number of ways, and one of the ways that bothers me is a number of their people, in the thousands, are from European and other countries that have what's called the visa waiver program from the United States, so they can get back to their country, get on an airplane in Paris or London, and fly to the U.S. no questions asked. And this is a real danger to us, and I think -- I think the president is realizing that and is upping the ante incrementally, and I think he's got to take the next logical step, which is to hit them in Iraq.

BOLDUAN: Where do you see evidence that the president is realizing that? I was reading in an opinion piece written by John McCain and Lindsey Graham, I was reading it once again this morning, and they put it this way, "Continuing to confront ISIS in Iraq but not in Syria would be fighting with one hand tied behind our back." It seems that you agree with that. What is the hesitancy then on the part of the administration to do just that, get the other hand out from the back?

KING: Well, there is the question of what is the president's authority here and what's Congress' role? At what point -- he certainly has the authority as commander in chief to protect American citizens, and if you notice, he's been very careful to justify the strikes in Iraq so far as either preventing a humanitarian crisis with the Yazidis or protecting American citizens. Striking ISIS' headquarters in Iraq and Syria is a different level of action, if you will.

And, you know, there's -- Congress can't have it both ways. We can't sit on the sidelines and continually criticize, and yet at some point we're going to have to make some decisions about what level of commitment we're going to authorize the president to make.

I think he is -- I agree with Lindsey Graham and John McCain in this case. I don't always, but in this case I think they are right. These guys are dangerous. They are clearly a danger to the United States, to American citizens, and as I say if they don't -- if they ignore the border between Iraq and Syria I don't know why we should worry too much about it. I think we have to hit them in their leadership. That's one of this group's strengths is their leadership and management, and I think that's where we have to try to strike.

BOLDUAN: Senator, you raise an important point. What is the role of Congress here? Congress returns after the break next week. Do you think Congress should have -- I guess maybe the question is how much say do you think Congress should have on the way forward for the president with regard to ISIS?

KING: Well, you know, the constitution is very clear. It says that the president is the commander in chief but Congress has the power to declare war. We haven't declared a war since I think World War II.

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right.

KING: And it's a little frustrating that Congress is very good at second guessing. That's probably our number one skill. Not very good at actually making the decisions. So whether or not the president should turn this over to Congress, I think Congress needs to have a vigorous debate, and the American people have to be engaged in that debate about what are our interests. How far are we willing to go, and how do we exercise American power in a way that is sensible, that will be effective, and yet doesn't drag us into a war that could frankly last generations?

Here's a great danger, Kate. This can't be turned into a war between the Muslim world and the non-Muslim world. That's just what ISIS wants. And if that happens, if we're dragged into that kind of debate and confrontation, our grandchildren are going to be fighting that war. And that's not the war we should be fighting. We should be isolating these people that are extremists and that don't represent the mainstream of Islamic thought.

And frankly the only cooed news is that ISIS is so bad that they have formed a focus for people that are normally enemies, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the U.S., everybody believes that these guys need to be contained and controlled. And that may be -- as I say, that may be the only good news coming out of this is that they are a common enemy from most of the rest of the world. But we have to keep them isolated and not allow them to turn this into a war between Muslim -- the Muslims and the rest of the world. That would be a disaster.

BOLDUAN: And Senator, you point out, this is an important debate to be had, but when does debate need to wrap up and action need to begin. That's kind of the question facing the president right now. A lot of deliberations going on, you're one of the strong voices on this. Thanks so much for your time. Appreciate it.

KING: Thank you, Kate. Glad to be with you, and I think we all need to realize this is a dangerous time, and caution isn't about a bad thing in this situation.

BOLDUAN: Senator Angus King, thank you.

KING: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: All right, Chris?

CUOMO: A robust debate the senator was calling for. That is certainly needed.

We want to turn to an unprecedented interview with those three Americans being held in North Korea, Kenneth Bae, Jeffrey Fowle, and Matthew Miller. There they are on the screen. They're all being held for alleged crimes against the state.

The men spoke with CNN's Will Ripley, and in probably coached comments they pleaded with the Obama administration to get them released. Will has just left the secretive country, joins from us Beijing, so he's free to speak once again. Will, this is very interesting. You weren't expecting this when you went into North Korea but now you're making a lot of news coming out of it. Tell us about it.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We certainly requested this interview the moment we arrived in country. In fact we requested it a couple of times during our six-day visit, but we were told it was going to be virtually impossible to meet with the American detainees. So you can imagine our surprise when we were on government-controlled tour, and all of a sudden we were whisked away and put on a van and driven towards the capital.

I pulled out my cell phone and started recording because I wanted to document exactly what was happening. We had no idea where we were going at the time. And we went to a building, a secret location in central Pyongyang, an off-the-beaten path area where outsiders and tourists normally are not allowed. It was only when we arrived at the building that we were told we would have five minutes with each of the Americans who are currently detained in North Korea, Kenneth Bae, who has been there nearly two years, and Matthew Miller and Jeffrey Fowle have each there since they were detained separately in April. And it was remarkable, Chris, how similar their messages were, particularly their messages for the United States. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH BAE, AMERICAN HELD IN NORTH KOREA: I believe that special envoy needs to come in order to resolve this situation that I'm in right now.

MATTHEW MILLER, AMERICAN HELD IN NORTH KOREA: I've been asking help for a long time, and there's been no movement from my government. The American government is known for having a strong policy of protecting its citizens, yet for my case there's still no movements.

JEFFREY FOWLE, AMERICAN HELD IN NORTH KOREA: This is an opportunity for maybe Bill Clinton to come back, and he assisted in the release of a couple of journalists a few years back. Maybe George Bush, it's his turn at elder statesman to try his hand at that. I appreciate any help that they could lend, help resolve our cases and bring us home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: Chris, other almost identical talking points between these three detainees. They admitted their guilt, apologized profusely, and asked for forgiveness of the North Korean government and insisted that they are being treated humanely.

CUOMO: We understand where they are coming from. They are in such desperate situations there. The question becomes what your gut is on why North Korea is putting them out, what they want, and any sense what the U.S. response will be?

RIPLEY: I'll tell you, North Korea doesn't have a whole lot of cards to play right now geopolitically. Here in Beijing tensions are rising between North Korea and China, and China has been a major benefactor that has essentially allowed this country's economy to continue limping along in spite of very strong sanctions from the United States and others that have crippled the economy there for decades.

Increased tension on that front, not to mention the fact that North Korea really hasn't been in the headlines as of late. They have been doing a lot of missile tests. They barely get mentioned anymore. There's the possibility of a nuclear test looming at some point in the future. But what they have is three Americans in their custody and they saw this as an opportunity to -- to put them on CNN and use these people perhaps to convey a message to the U.S. government that they want to open a line of communication.

CUOMO: The situation has been going on a long time. There've been windows in the past for some movement. We're going to have to see what happens this time. Will Ripley, big interviews. Thanks for bringing them to us.

A lot of news this morning as well going on around the world but right here at home -- tell us about it, my friend.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we'll start overseas and then we'll get some other local stuff for you here.

Starting with breaking news this morning. More than 100 family members of victims of an ISIS attack have stormed Iraq's parliament building. They are demanding more information about the fate of the victims, their loved ones, and for their bodies to be returned. This attack happened in June at a camp for Iraqi forces near Tikrit. Family members are refusing to leave until officials address their concern.

Pakistan's prime minister has met with military leaders to look at the option of resigning for three months. Now this is according to a government official with direct knowledge of the situation. However, a website for the country's military says those reports are false. The alleged discussions are taking place as deadly protests rage in the streets of Islamabad. Demonstrators are demanding Nawaz Sharif step down, accusing the prime minister of rigging last year's elections.

The legality of the NSA's bulk collection of phone records faces a test in federal court in New York. The panel of judges will be first appeals court to address the controversial program, surveillance program. Today's hearing stems from a suit filed by the ACLU that says the bulk collection of phone metadata is a violation of privacy rights and federal law.

25 U.S. Navy sailors and Marines were rescued with only minor injuries after their helicopter crashed into the Arabian Sea Monday. The Navy says no hostile activity was involved in that crash. The Marine chopper was apparently attempting to land on an amphibious transport ship following training exercises when that accident occurred.

So thank goodness they were rescued and only minor injuries, because that could have been terribly devastating.

BOLDUAN: Could have easily gone the other way.

CUOMO: All right, we're going to have, fresh from his trip from West Africa, the director of the CDC. We're going to find out what he thinks about the strategy to quarantine West Africa until the deadly Ebola virus clears up.

BOLDUAN: And the midterm campaigns are now full spring -- full swing. The spring begins. Usually the time for the president to hit the campaign trail for the biggest races, right? Well, not this year. We're going to check out what's happening INSIDE POLITICS.

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PEREIRA: Welcome back. The first human clinical trial for an Ebola vaccine is expected to begin today here in the United States as the deadly outbreak continues to rapidly expand over the weekend. The country of Senegal reported its first case, a student who contracted the disease in Guinea.

Officially, there are more than 3,000 cases; more than 1,500 people have died from the virus so far. But many suspect the numbers are much higher, including the director of the Centers for Disease Control, Dr. Tom Frieden. He just returned from a trip to the hot zone, so-called hot zone, in West Africa, including Liberia, Guinea, and Sierra Leone. And he joins me now.

Dr. Frieden, thank you so much for joining us fresh off your trip there. I understand you wanted to see firsthand for yourself. It's worse than you feared.

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: Absolutely. We've seen outbreaks of Ebola before. This is the first epidemic spreading widely throughout country and many countries, and it's spiraling out of control. It's bad now, much more than the numbers show. It's going to get even worse in the very near future and our window of opportunity to turn it around is closing. But it's not yet closed. The crucial thing we need to do is to act fast. Action today is worth much more than action in a couple weeks or a month or two.

PEREIRA: Explain why the window is closing.

FRIEDEN: What we're seeing is a spiraling of cases, really a hugely fast increasing cases that's harder and harder to manage. The more we can get in there and tamp that down, the -- the fewer cases we'll have in the weeks and months to come. Right now, the epidemic is completely out of control.

PEREIRA: You spoke to our Nima Elbagir, and you said, quote, "The world cannot isolate Liberia and West Africa", that it would not help and will make it harder to stop the outbreak. I think common sense would say, "Isolate! Isolate!" What do you mean by your comments?

FRIEDEN: Well, whether we like it or not, we are all connected. And even if we wanted to, we couldn't seal these countries off. In fact, the measures that have been taken that have it harder to fly in and fly out have made it harder to get help in, harder to control the epidemic, and therefore paradoxically have increased risks to other places.

I had to scramble to leave a day early because my flight was canceled. To get from one country to another, I had to hop on a U.N. plane because my flight was canceled. So this is making it really hard to get help in and to respond effectively to the outbreak.

We can't reject these countries. They're part of the world, and the longer the outbreak and epidemic goes on there, the more that all of us are potentially at risk.

PEREIRA: I get a sense that international powers are one angle of the problem, but I understand some of these rural areas have their own unique issues. Did you get a sense of that while you were there?

FRIEDEN: I did. I spoke with the minister of health in Guinea. He had just come back from an area called Macenta, which is having really a large outbreak of cases, and the community doesn't understand. They don't have even radio transmission there. And he was pelted with stones and almost harmed in trying to bring assistance.

So one of the things that we have to do is to provide not just Ebola assistance but general assistance to areas like that in the rural area. The epicenter, the crucible, if you will, of this epidemic is this three-country area near what's called the Mano River where the three countries all have a shared border, where the epidemic probably started and where it remains most intense. If we can tamp it down there by providing things like bed nets and soap and water, information to people and services, then we can begin addressing it at the source of the source.

PEREIRA: Part of that is also winning over the trust of the people on the ground. They see these outsiders come in and these crazy looking isolation suits and I'm sure that causes a fair amount of fear. You have to be aware of the cultural differences and sensitivities, and I'm sure that poses a challenge, too, does it not?

FRIEDEN: Well, one of the things that really struck me is how open people were within societies to do more themselves and to get more help. Everyone, from the presidents of each of the countries down to front line health workers, said to me, "We'll do whatever we can but we can't do it all ourselves. We need training on how to do it better. We need some resources that we don't have. We need things like trucks that we don't have."

There's so much that's need, but 90 percent of the care being given in Ebola treatment units is by local staff. And I talked with folks who are working until 10:00 at night on dreadful jobs like burying Ebola- infected bodies and then going back to their homes and not being allowed in, but going back the next day to do the job again. They want to control it. We have to help them now.

PEREIRA: Let's talk about here in the United States. Are you fearing that there could be an outbreak here? Are we safe from Ebola? We saw two cases handled swiftly and with great result. Where do we stand?

FRIEDEN: Well, I think to help stop it there is going to be the best way of protecting of ourselves.

PEREIRA: The key to stop it here.

FRIEDEN: People can give resources and give money to groups like MSF or UNICEF or the CDC Foundation. Experts or people who are specialists in hospital administration in austere environments, or doctors who have worked in Africa, can volunteer. And we have to really work together. For doctors on the front lines and emergency departments here, they have to think about travel. That if someone has been in West Africa in the past three weeks and has a fever, isolate and test for Ebola.

PEREIRA: Last final thought. Are you hopeful of this clinical trial of the Ebola vaccine? Starts today.

FRIEDEN: I certainly hope we'll have a vaccine; I hope we'll have a treatment. But we can't count on it. We know that the methods that we used have stopped every Ebola outbreak to date, but what we have to do now is scale them up massively.

PEREIRA: Dr. Tom Frieden just back from West Africa. Thank you so much for joining us. Giving us the latest on the Ebola outbreak and virus and also this clinical trial of this vaccine. Thank you so much, sir.

FRIEDEN: Thank you.

PEREIRA: A desperate plea from three Americans detained in North Korea asking for the U.S., begging the U.S. to help them. An exclusive TV interview with CNN. Could this new call for help lead to direct negotiations between the U.S. and North Korea? Also, the president's foreign policy under attack from the right and

the left as the commander in chief heads to Europe to address global issues. He may be all alone. Details ahead on INSIDE POLITICS.

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