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New Day

New Surveillance Flights Over Syria; ESPN: Rice Told Goodell in June About Punch; Pistorius Guilty of Culpable Homicide

Aired September 12, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now: U.S. military planes flying over Syria, looking for potential ISIS targets. This as the CIA now says the terror group's fighting force is twice the size previously thought. We're live with the latest.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: What did he know and when did he know it? A new report says Ray Rice told commissioner Goodell exactly what happened inside that elevator months ago, this as the Ravens play and fans, even women, wear Rice's jersey proudly.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight. Oscar Pistorius found guilty of culpable homicide, but not guilty of premeditated murder. We break down the verdict, how much prison time the famed runner might get.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan and Michaela Pereira.

PEREIRA: You both finished your donuts now?

CUOMO: Yes, I had two.

Good morning. Welcome back to NEW DAY. It is Friday, September 12th, 8:00 in the East.

I'm here obviously with Michaela Pereira. Kate under the weather.

PEREIRA: Yes, not baby time. We don't believe. She just wasn't feeling well this morning. Thoughts and gentle hugs to mama. She still has a few weeks left.

CUOMO: Yes, she does. So, don't misunderstand this headline, which is poised to strike. We're not talking about Kate. We're talking about the U.S., surveillance planes are flying over Syria, looking for ISIS targets right now. If and when the president orders these air strikes, that obviously has to go along as the condition.

If that happens at sad regime in Syria says it would actually support the effort.

Joe Johns joins us from the White House with details. This is a welcome develop I would take it for the White House.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONENT: I think it is. It's also a tight taupe this administration is trying to walk. One source telling CNN the administration is essentially trying to take on ISIS but at the same time not elevating their status and that, of course, is why they're not calling it a war.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): This morning, U.S. surveillance flights over Syria are under way, the military now developing potential targets for future air strikes against ISIS militants a U.S. official has told CNN. This as CNN learns the CIA's estimate of the size of ISIS double, now said to be between 20,000 and 30,000 fighters, and the number of westerners in their ranks, up to 2,000, including about a dozen Americans.

Secretary of State John Kerry in the Middle East building a coalition, nine Arab nations signing on in the battle against ISIS.

Saudi Arabia agreeing to train anti-ISIS fighters, but none of the nations expected to participate in military strikes.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: I think that's the wrong terminology.

JOHNS: In an interview Kerry with CNN's Elise Labott, Kerry took issue with this action being called a war.

KERRY: What we are doing is engaging in a very significant counterterrorism operation. And it's going to go on for some period of time. If somebody wants to think about it as being a war with ISIL, they can do so. But the fact is, it's a major counterterrorism operation that will have many different moving parts.

JOHNS: Moving parts including money to arm Syrian rebels to fight is.

SEN. JOE MANCHIN, (D) WEST VIRGINIA: I'm going to have deep concerns about us investing taxpayers' dollars at $500 million to a group of rebels we're not sure how it will be used to our benefit.

JOHNS: But many parts of the president's plan receiving skepticism on Capitol Hill.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R) HOUSE SPEAKER: An F-16 is not a strategy. And air strikes alone will not accomplish what we're trying to accomplish.

JOHNS: With one House Republican and former air force surveillance pilot in Iraq predicting a long slog.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: I think we are looking at a multi- year war in front of us, and I hope the American people are patient for it, because anything short of destroying this group is going to lead to many, many problems in the future.

(END VIDEOTAPE) JOHNS: A debate on Capitol Hill over the use of force authorization would certainly be political theater here. There are also some Democrats who would not like to take that vote, especially with the midterm elections looming, Chris.

CUOMO: Well, that's exactly why they should have to take the vote, Joe Johns, because that's their job, that's why they should be looking at whether or not they get reelected, are they doing their job?

Thank you very much. Appreciate the reporting this morning -- Mick.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris, it's hot, getting hotter for NFL commissioner Roger Goodell. Several sources telling ESPN that Ray Rice admitted to Goodell back in June that he had punched his then fiance in a hotel elevator. That is months before Goodell says he learned what happened.

Andy Scholes was at the Ravens game last night. He joins us from Washington with more.

You have so much to get it. But I'm curious, since you were at the game were you surprised so many female fans were showing their support by wearing Ray Rice jerseys?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: You know, Michaela, I was shocked. I couldn't believe it. I said before the game started I didn't expect to see many Ray Rice jerseys but they were everywhere, I saw hundreds of people wearing them. We'll get to their comments shortly.

But this whole Ray Rice story, it just seems to take another turn every few hours. Roger Goodell continues to be under fire, many people don't believe what he's saying and amidst all the controversy, the Ravens had to get back to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHOLES (voice-over): The Baltimore Ravens taking the field for the first time since their teammate, Ray Rice, was let go amid a domestic violence controversy.

In a new report, four sources tell ESPN that Rice met with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell back in June admitting he punched his then- fiancee, Janay Palmer, in a casino elevator months before TMZ posted the surveillance video.

On Tuesday, Goodell told CBS News that Rice's account of what happened was ambiguous compared to what the video showed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was ambiguous about her lying unconscious on the floor, being dragged out by her feet?

ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: There was nothing ambiguous about that. That was the result that we saw. We did not know what let up to that.

SCHOLES: A number of current and former players calling for Goodell to be held accountable is growing by the day.

JONATHAN VILMA, FORMER NEW ORLEANS SAINTS LINEBACKER: Roger Goodell failed to act, plain and simple. He failed to act. There should be consequences.

SCHOLES: And former Philadelphia Eagles running back, Brian Westbrook tweeting, "Being a leader is not a part-time job, if Goodell holds the players to a high standard, he should be held to that same high standard."

Mere hours before Thursday night's kickoff, CBS officials nixed a pre- corded Rihanna opener, considering the singer's own history of domestic abuse at the hands of ex Chris Brown. Instead devoting time to a discussion about the abuse scandal rocking the NFL, culminating with James Brown making a powerful plea.

JAMES BROWN, CBS COMMENTATOR: According to domestic violence experts, more than three women per day lose their lives at the hands of their partners. So, this is yet another call to men -- to stand up and take responsibility for their thoughts, their words, their deeds, and as Deion says, to give help or to get help, because our silence is deafening and deadly.

SCHOLES: After defeating the Steelers, the ravens voiced their support for their ex-teammate.

DENNIS PITTA, BALTIMORE RAVENS TIGHT END: He's always been unbelievable in the community here. And people have really grown to love him and they support him, as do we. We acknowledge the mistake he made.

TORREY SMITH, BALTIMORE RAVENS WIDE RECEIVER: Ray is still a great guy, you know? He made a mistake. You take away those two minutes of his life and you look at a model citizen, a model man.

SCHOLES: Fans also showing loyalty to Rice by wearing his jersey.

BOBBY MCDONALD, BALTIMORE RAVENS FANS: I stick behind Ray Rice 100 percent. And I will rock this jersey every day until he is back on that field.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a situation that is between his wife and himself. And I feel that everybody should leave them alone and let them deal with the situation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHOLES: Michaela, I have to say again I was shocked to see so many Ravens fans wearing their Ray Rice jerseys last night, there were hundreds of them and surprisingly most were women and the ones I talked to said they were mad at the NFL and Roger Goodell than they were at Ray Rice.

PEREIRA: I think it surprised many of us. All right. Andy, thanks for that report. We appreciate it -- Chris.

CUOMO: Maybe that's another symptom of the problem there, Mick.

Let's discuss this, because it turns out how the NFL handled the Ray Rice assault raising so many questions that even the NFL is asking questions about itself. It launched an independent investigation into how it handled the Ray Rice video, and they're running it with ex-FBI Director Robert Mueller. Now, is he the right person to lead this inquiry and what do we think should happen here going forward?

To discuss, legal eagles, former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin and Jeffrey Toobin.

Robert Mueller, I would say seems to burnish the situation. You know, he's got a good reputation, known for being a straight shooter. What's your take?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I agree, he's really one of the most distinguished public servants in all of American law enforcement. He is a very trustworthy figure. The NFL is going to order their employees to cooperate. I think he's a very good choice.

CUOMO: Other than when Clinton appointed that special prosecutor that started all the Monica Lewinsky stuff as a general rule, if you ask someone to investigate you, you're usually confident they're not going to find anything. Do you think that's part of the suspicion?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, I don't. I actually also agree with Jeff. I think Mueller is a terrific choice. The one thing that struck me at odd is when the NFL made the announcement. They said two of their coaches would be overseeing the investigation, that was very tone deaf.

TOOBIN: Two of their owners.

HOSTIN: Two of their owners. That was bizarre because they're not overseeing the ex-FBI director. They're providing information and making sure that Mueller has everything that he needs so it was I think in a sense indicative how the NFL doesn't realize how this thing is going to go down.

CUOMO: And our best information is Mueller wouldn't let himself be a patsy. If they wanted control he wouldn't have taken the job.

HOSTIN: No.

CUOMO: All right. So, then big question becomes, well, what should happen? I have a couple of general assumptions here that you guys can unpack legally and practically. The first one, what's surprising. Oh, we didn't see it, we didn't see it.

I say we didn't see the video is a distraction because it is distracting us from the real issue which is they didn't need to see it. They knew what was on it. How do we know? The report said what was on it. Ray Rice said what was on it. We knew what was on it.

If I knew what was on it, they should have known what was on it. Do you agree? TOOBIN: Well, yes, but that's part of the problem. You know, the

idea of whether we take domestic violence seriously enough, obviously the video transformed our understanding of precisely what went on, but, of course, the NFL should have responded more forcefully, even without the video. And remember, all the outrage at the two-game suspension was before the punch video came out. So, there was a lot of outrage even before the punch video came out.

HOSTIN: You know, I actually disagree. I think that the video was so important not only for this case but for domestic violence cases in general, because I prosecuted these cases when I was in D.C., and you never have video. Sometimes you have a 911 call where the victim is screaming that she needs help. Sometimes you have photographs and so you see the aftermath, but this is the first time in my memory that you actually see what domestic violence looks like.

And remember, Ray Rice's attorneys came out and tried to change the narrative. It was all about how she hit him and I think the Ravens owner was really quite in a sense. Yes, I think that he was really honest and transparent when he said I thought it was just a slap.

Now, we all know just a slap is domestic violence as well, but he said that that video that showed him what domestic violence looked like changed things.

CUOMO: But here's what's telling you. Then why didn't the cops make the case?

TOOBIN: Well, see, I think that's really -- the story we haven't talk about enough, which is obviously we're talking about whether the NFL's discipline was appropriate. But imagine the New Jersey authorities who clearly acknowledged they had the punch video. They had all the evidence.

HOSTIN: And the prosecutors.

TOOBIN: Yes, together the prosecutors and they give him a Mickey Mouse deferred prosecution agreement, not even a misdemeanor?

CUOMO: They arrest both of them.

HOSTIN: That's right.

TOOBIN: Well, when they arrested him they didn't have the video. When they decided to charge and give Rice that sweetheart deal, they had the video.

CUOMO: Why'd they do it? How do you justify it?

HOSTIN: I think it's celebrity justice. Domestic violence cases are ineligible for pre-trial diversion programs and if you look at financial law they are ineligible for pre-trial diversion programs. They are just not eligible.

And if you look at the New Jersey law, they aren't ineligible. CUOMO: Right. No, I understand that, that's a strong point but isn't

it true that often domestic violence cases suffer from when the victim says I'm not going to cooperate.

TOOBIN: That's right.

HOSTIN: Not when you have a video, Chris.

CUOMO: That's the difference.

TOOBIN: But it remains part of the culture of law enforcement that with a reluctant victim, the cases tend to fall apart. They shouldn't, but and especially in a case with a video, as Sunny points out is incredibly unusual, but they often fall apart because of the lack of cooperation.

HOSTIN: And I think that the NFL unfortunately followed the lead of the prosecutors.

CUOMO: That's right.

HOSTIN: If you have someone that has a sweetheart deal you think two- game suspension is appropriate.

CUOMO: And they follow the lead of the rest of us because I am to blame, too. I think my brothers and sisters in the media are to blame, because I left it alone. I knew there was video of this, they should have known what happened. If it were Congress or if it were an issue we care about more, we would have never let them go with saying we don't know if it's in the video.

TOOBIN: And how many domestic violence defendants, convicts, are currently playing in the NFL and the NBA and the NHL and Major League Baseball.

CUOMO: We got 14 guys in the NFL alone, who have a case like this either in their past or hanging over their heads, and collectively, there have been 13 games taken away from them.

TOOBIN: And we haven't been outraged about that. It was only the video that set this off and you're right, we deserve some responsibility.

HOSTIN: Well, what does that say about Goodell and how he perceives domestic violence and what he has done on his watch about domestic violence. I think these calls of, you know, his resignation I think at this point are pretty appropriate.

CUOMO: They're appropriate but here's my take. I don't think it goes anywhere. The owners control what happens to Goodell, they're making a ton of money, that's what they care about.

HOSTIN: Although I think if it's determined, if Mueller determines that Goodell did see the videotape that he lied.

CUOMO: Then he's got trouble, but I don't think they asked for Mueller if they know they had that coming your way. I don't think you do it. I think you find another option.

TOOBIN: I'm not that cynical.

CUOMO: You don't think Roger Goodell allows an ex-FBI to come in if he knows he's going to find out I'm lying?

TOOBIN: No, I mean, look, I think he was out of his hands at that point. They had to do an independent investigation but much more likely outcome is that they were either incompetent or willfully blind. I don't think Goodell saw the video and is lying to us whether he saw it, but the issue is how serious is the incompetence, is the willful negligence of this investigation.

CUOMO: Or are they just a reflection of everybody else? Because you got women saying it's not a big deal, if she forgave him, you should forgive him, marriage is complicated, the cops didn't make a case. Leave it alone. It's just football.

There's a lot of cultural ignorance flowing in favor of the NFL.

HOSTIN: And on the other side, there are many people that are outraged.

CUOMO: And they should be.

HOSTIN: And many people that think this is --

CUOMO: Make it quick I'm getting yelled at. About to be some anchor violence in here.

TOOBIN: The morons wearing the 27 jersey, how stupid is that? I mean, you know?

HOSTIN: Really?

TOOBIN: Really?

CUOMO: We'll end it on that. We'll end it on that.

We also have some other breaking news to tell you about this morning, so let me get you right over to John.

BERMAN: All right. Thanks, Chris.

Breaking news this morning, almost two years after Malala Yousufzai was shot in the head, the Pakistani army says it has arrested the gunmen that tried to kill her. Pakistani security forces say they were able to track down the gang after making an initial arrest. The teenage crusader was shot in the head by Taliban gunmen back in 2012.

She has recovered. She keeps on fighting for the right of all children to get an education. Let's keep our eye on that to see if justice is served.

New economic sanctions against Russia going to effect today. The European Union sanctions are in response to Russia's support of anti- government rebels in Ukraine. The new measures freeze assets and ban travel for several Russian officials and rebel leaders. Also, Ukrainian government forces and pro-Russian rebels traded prisoners Thursday as part of a cease-fire negotiated during peace talks.

BERMAN: Australia now on high alert for a terrorist attack. In a press conference this morning, Prime Minister Tony Abbott warned that terrorists had, quote, "intent and capability to mount an attack", though no specific threat had been made. This is Australia's first high alert since it launched its four-level warning system in 2003. Abbott told Australians to expect more security at ports of entry and public events, a lot of countries in the world raising their alert levels.

PEREIRA: All right, John, thanks so much. Good to have you here with us this morning.

Seventeen minutes past the hour. Two guilty verdicts just announced in the Oscar Pistorius murder trial, the Blade Runner could be facing years behind bars. We'll break it down with our legal minds, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Good to have you back with us here on NEW DAY. After six months, judgment day finally arrived for Oscar Pistorius, the judge finding him guilty of culpable homicide, ruling that he unintentionally but did killed Reeva Steenkamp. He's been granted bail.

Let's bring our legal analyst, former federal prosecutors Sunny Hostin and Jeffrey Toobin we'll do a lightning round since we have you here, put you to work. First of all, surprised, Sunny, that the judge acquitted of murder charges and went with culpable homicide only?

HOSTIN: No, I'm not. I think it was reasonable. I think that in any jurisdiction, any country, any case premeditated murder is really difficult to prove. I mean, you have to prove what was in someone's mind and it's easy when you have all of this preplanning and you have a contract murder, that sort of thing.

When you are trying to prove someone just decided to do it, you know, in the blink of an eye, I think that's difficult to prove.

PEREIRA: Any part of the judgment, Jeffrey, you're taking issue with the judge's decision?

TOOBIN: No, you know, I thought she did a remarkably good job. I thought this was a good advertisement for South African justice that this woman is obviously very distinguished judge, has a remarkable history in South Africa and you know, as someone who followed the evidence closely, but not meticulously like she did, it seemed the right result to me.

PEREIRA: We've been learning about South African law that the sentence is tailored to the person as -- a, on a whole, the culprit of the person as a whole, not just specifically to the crime they committed. So, they're looking at character and how they behave, looking to the character witnesses, et cetera.

How do you think he was portrayed? And do you think he was accurately portrayed, Oscar Pistorius, throughout the trial?

HOSTIN: That's a good question. I think having watched it, not meticulously but closely, I think we got a good sense of who he is. She did find him not to be credible on the witness stand, though, and I think we saw some theatrics in the courtroom that I've ever seen with the vomiting and the intense crying. But I think we saw a very volatile personality.

TOOBIN: Well, he is a person obviously of great contradictions. There is tremendous courage and achievement in surmounting this very serious disability that he has to become one of the great athletes in the world, at the same time, he is obviously a person with real anger issues. This was not the first time he behaved really inappropriately.

PEREIRA: We saw that as well.

TOOBIN: With a gun.

PEREIRA: With a gun.

TOOBIN: So that's part of the story that was told in this trial, as always sentencing will be difficult.

PEREIRA; It will be difficult. That's what I want to talk about, look forward here in terms of sentencing. We know there's no minimum nor maximum.

HOSTIN: Sure.

PEREIRA: We also know there's other charges he will be sentenced for. Any sense of what you think the judge will do? She's a tough cookie when it comes to violence against women.

HOSTIN: She sure is, that's her history.

People are sort of talking about 15 years is usually the norm or between 6 and 15 years. I wonder if celebrity justice is going to be part of this. We are talking about a disabled athlete. He deserves jail time clearly but I don't know he'll get 15 years in jail.

TOOBIN: I was reading about a culpable homicide in South Africa with some similarities to this that ended in a six-year sentence and I would guess in that range and frankly maybe --

HOSTIN: That's appropriate.

TOOBIN: Maybe you're tougher than I am. That would strike me as fine.

PEREIRA: She's tough. She's tough.

TOOBIN: Yes. PEREIRA: Jeffrey Toobin and Sunny Hostin, don't question her toughness. I know how you do --

TOOBIN: I wasn't questioning Sunny's --

PEREIRA: No, I'm saying Cuomo. But we know how he likes to do that.

HOSTIN: But he shouldn't.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: A special we'll be doing here on CNN. Tonight at 10:00 p.m., we'll have a very special "CNN Spotlight" on Oscar Pistorius.

Sunny, Jeffrey, thank you so much.

HOSTIN: Thank you.

PEREIRA: U.S. surveillance planes flying over Syria and Iraq, tracking ISIS targets for potential airstrikes, leaving some to wonder is the U.S. rushing into war? We're going to talk about that with America's first elected Muslim to Congress, Democrat Keith Ellison.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

The CIA says ISIS may be more than 31,000 strong. Why does that matter? Because it's as much as three times the previous estimate. Meanwhile, the U.S. is readying air strikes in Syria, ready to go the minute the president gives the OK, but that would mean without a vote in Congress to authorize all of this. It raises the question, is that the way it should happen? Why is Congress giving him so much room? Shouldn't we have a vote? Are we rushing in?

Joining us now is someone to answer all the five questions I asked, Democratic Congressman Keith Ellison.

He's an authority on Mideast issues. He's traveled there extensively and he is the first Muslim elected to Congress.

And, Representative, it's good to have you as always.

You being a Muslim --

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Thank you.

CUOMO: -- is beside the fact of common sense that needs to apply in this situation.

Your brothers and sisters in Congress, they sue the president on these lesser issues and his executive action but they are backing away. They say, yes, we should fight, this is great, ISIS is bad. Vote, I don't know, we should have one, but -- you know, and their voices get weaker and weaker.