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President's Plans to Combat ISIS Criticized; Interview with Jay Carney; NFL Player Adrian Peterson Indicted for Child Abuse; A Debate Over Corporal Punishment

Aired September 15, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And this will be a critical week for the president on ISIS. He is scheduled to meet with the man he's tapped to lead the ISIS battle, retired general John Allen, on Tuesday before he heads down to Tampa to meet with central commanders, the top commanders at the Central Command down in Tampa for a briefing on how the U.S. will take the fight to ISIS. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: It's interesting, Jim to see when the pressure will switch from the White House to Congress, because Senator Lindsey Graham, if that's the way he feels, constitutional responsibility to debate and vote to declare war, when is it going to shift away, or is it just political fear playing out right before our eyes?

ACOSTA: I don't know if there are a lot of members of Congress who are willing to follow that load, but we'll see.

CUOMO: They should be quiet if they're not going to act. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go to Jay Carney, now, former White House press secretary and CNN political commentator. Jay it's great to see you.

JAY CARNEY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Good morning, Kate, thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: Of course. A lot to talk about. I wanted to ask you first and foremost about the mindset of the president in the deliberation leading up to his decision to move forward on the strategy. "The New York Times" had a great piece kind of talking to people who spoke to the president and knew where he was, where his mine was at the time of making this decision. Tell me about that mindset and where you three, what you think tipped the balance for him in going forward with this strategy, if it was not those beheading videos.

CARNEY: Well, let me say a few things.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

CARNEY: As everyone knows, president Obama came to office because of his opposition -- in part because of his opposition to the Iraq war, in part that his very clear view that after so much war that the United States was involved in the Middle East it was time to pull our forces out of Iraq and draw down our effort in Afghanistan. And he has moved very decisively forward on those objectives.

But I think it's also worth remembering that in his time in office, President Obama has also been extraordinarily aggressive in going after terrorists that he views as posing a threat to the United States, a direct threat to the U.S. or a direct threat to our allies.

What you saw in ISIS was as it evolved as a force and as it moved so quickly into Iraq a threat that became more than regional, one that, you know, created stable in that part of the world. And I think the beheadings galvanized public opinion obviously in support of taking action against ISIS, but I don't think that is what caused the American president, President Obama, to decide to act. I think he saw this as a threat that reached a point where American action was required.

BOLDUAN: And when you think about that, the fact that the president reached that point that the threat has gotten to the place where American action was required, it does make you wonder, when you're looking at the secretary of state overseas trying to galvanize support with regional partners and got buy-in from some 40 Arab countries, but what are those countries going to do and what kind of buy-ins are they really going to sign on for? Why down it seem, do you think, that the Arab nations are so reluctant to get involved if they're the ones facing the most immediate threat?

CARNEY: Kate, as you know, Arab politics, the Sunni-Shia politics are incredibly complicated. And you have enemies of enemies who become friends because of the shifting dynamics in the region and the various power plays. So this is never an easy task. You have a situation obviously where you have Sunni regimes in the region who feel threatened by the ISIS threat even though the ISIS is obviously Sunni. But they're wary of allying themselves with Shia nations like Iran in taking on ISIS. So this is always a difficult enterprise that Secretary Kerry has embarked on. I don't think there is anything more complicated than assembling a coalition in that part of the world.

BOLDUAN: I think that's a fair point. And I think then, also, it does get to the big question of what is the end game. I think it's easy to understand what the end game is in Iraq, not so easy to understand what the president's end game is in Syria, if you will. Denis McDonough was asked point blank what success looked like by Chuck Todd on "Meet the Press." Here's what he said, Jay.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENIS MCDONOUGH, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Success looks like an ISIL that no longer threatens our friend in the region, no longer threatens the United States, an ISIL that can't accumulate followers or threaten Muslims in Syria, Iran, or Iraq, or otherwise. That's what success looks like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Is that clear enough? Is that a clear enough end game?

CARNEY: I think it's a relatively modest end game, which I think is a wise place to be. We are not talking about, you know, establishing, you know, a stable democracy throughout the region. We're not talking about eliminating entirely in the short term this organization. Dennis, the chief of staff, Denis McDonough was talking about the U.S. with its allies diminishing ISIS to the point where it didn't pose the threat that it currently poses to the region and doesn't importantly pose a threat to the recruitment of westerners to the United States and our allies.

I think when you see a president like President Obama take this step, I think he is very cautious about making broad claims when it comes to what this action will do for the future. I think we have experienced that in the past where the U.S., that the call to war for the United States has been accompanied by a vision of what that effort will bring that has never materialized. And I think President Obama is wary of doing that.

BOLDUAN: You have on one hand the drumbeat of folks saying that the president needs to do more, then you've got the criticism that he is now moving maybe too fast without having Arab nations already in place to accept that regional partnership. What does the president, how does he react? You were in the administration for a very long time. You went through a lot with the president as well. You were there when probably some of these conversations were starting. What does he say to the criticism that he is lacking in leadership?

CARNEY: You know, I think once you have been president for as long as he has, you begin to accept that criticism comes because of the nature of the office. These are never easy decisions.

BOLDUAN: Does it get to him, though?

CARNEY: I think what gets to him at times and what got to all of us when I was in the White House was when sometimes superficiality overtook substance. I think a substantive debate about what the right course of action for the United States is in Iraq and Syria is merited. And that can include criticism about whether President Obama acted too swiftly or too slowly when it came to Syria, whether he should have armed moderate groups before, or is it still too early to arm them because they are so disparate and it's not clear where those arms will go. Those are legitimate, I think, criticisms.

I am sure I know from a fact is the criticism of this idea the he, you know, pursued the policy that is, at least in the first instant, based on not messing up, not doing stupid things, you know, it's an easy thing to criticize, but if you look at our history, it's very important to see those areas where bad policy mistakes were made that cost us millions and trillions of dollars, cost us American lives. President Obama as president is very conscious of the need not to make those kinds of decisions, to avoid those kinds of mistakes because the costs are so high. We are dealing with Iraq in part because of what occurred in 2003 and 2004 and the choices made then.

BOLDUAN: And these are critical things ahead, and the decisions that are made now, as we are hearing, will have ramifications for years to come because this is a threat, as the president has said and many in the White House, is going to be facing this country beyond even his administration.

CARNEY: That's absolutely right.

BOLDUAN: Jay, it's great to see. Thanks for coming in.

CARNEY: Thanks for having me, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Of course. Let's go over to Michaela, now.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. It's eight minutes past the hour. Here's a look at your headlines.

About 200 U.S. military personnel are in Ukraine for NATO exercises today. Troops in 15 countries will take part in exercise Rapid Trident to promote cooperation among NATO and partner nations. These exercises come as fighting escalates in eastern Ukraine despite a 10- day-old cease-fire.

President Obama is planning a major U.S. effort to combat the Ebola outbreak in Africa. The president is going to detail his plans tomorrow when he visits the Centers for Disease Control. The administration is asking Congress to approve a request for $88 million to fight the virus. The World Health Organization reports that more than 2,400 people have died in the outbreak.

Pope Francis once again breaking the mold, marrying 20 couples who already live together. Now, not only that, one of the couples he married was a man whose previous marriage had been annulled and a single mother with a daughter from a previous relationship. In his homily, he said the church should forgive those who have sex outside marriage or who don't obey church teaching to the letter. They were the first marriage he celebrated in his papacy

CUOMO: Big deal.

PEREIRA: A big deal in the Catholic Church, for sure.

CUOMO: Big deal, big deal, because him doing marriages is the headline, right. That's all he needed to do. He, instead, went beyond, and I know what you are thinking at home. Everybody lives together before they get married now. I know, but the church is very strict about it in terms of their dogma. They want the pope to reflect the dogma, and he didn't. So once again Francis is showing he is his own man and he believes that the church is about forgiveness and love and may it has gotten away from that.

PEREIRA: Here, here.

CUOMO: Speaking about the lack of forgiveness and love, Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson booked on felony child abuse charges. So here's the debate, corporal punishment, always wrong? Not what the law says, and it's not what you were saying on social media about Adrian Peterson. We'll debate it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CUOMO: You watch the games the weekend in the NFL? Well, nobody is talking about them. Because the problems keep piling up for the league. Now three players suspended or sidelined for domestic abuse charges alone.

Andy Scholes has more about this, in this morning's Bleacher Report. You know, usually on a Monday, what are we doing? We're lamenting the Jets and everything else. Not this Monday. Serious matters on hand.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS: Yeah that's right, Chris. You know the latest problem for the NFL, superstar running back Adrian Peterson was indicted on child abuse charges. Now the Vikings decided to be proactive in this situation, making him inactive for yesterday's game against the Patriots. Peterson turned himself in and posted bail in Montgomery County, Texas, on Saturday for allegedly hitting his 4- year-old son with a small tree branch.

Peterson's lawyer, Rusty Hardin, maintains his client is innocent of any intended wrong-doing, despite the pending case, tons of Vikings fans still showed up to their game yesterday with Peterson jerseys on. Ray Rice, meanwhile, is expected to appeal his indefinite suspension later today. That's according to ESPN and pro football talk. The NFL Players Association tells CNN, however, that no final decision has been made. Rice has until 11:59 tomorrow night to file the appeal.

The Carolina Panthers deactivated defensive end Greg Hardy yesterday. He is currently appealing his conviction on domestic abuse charges. Hardy was found guilty back in July of assaulting and threatening his ex-girlfriend. He played in week one, but as the NFL continues to come under fire for domestic abuse, the Panthers decided to sit him for the team's home opener, and head coach Ron Rivera was grilled about the decision after the game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON RIVERA, CAROLINA PANTHERS HEAD COACH: At the end of the day, I had to make the decision that was in the best interest of the Panthers. Okay. Understand that, guys. This is a very difficult situation that the league is dealing with right now. Teams are dealing with this and we are doing the best we can. Okay, we are not infallible. We make mistakes. The decision I made today was based on all the information that I tried to get the people that I talked with and going forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Chris, the San Francisco 49ers defensive tackle, Ray McDonald, he is arrested on suspicion of felony domestic violence. He is still playing. The 49ers said they will let due process play out before they decide on any penalty for McDonald..

CUOMO: Andy, thank you very much. I appreciate the reporting on all this.

A big question is going to be, you know going after the NFL, saying, you know, they have to get up with the times. Is the NFL the problem? Or is it the rest of us? Here's why I say that. Adrian Peterson has been charged with child abuse, but it's reopening the debate, is corporal punishment ever acceptable? Now, Adrian Peterson called what he did "spanking" or "giving him a whooping." It was assault. Just take a look at the pictures if you need more proof. But still, many of you took his side and you feel even more strongly about actual spanking.

So let's have the debate about what's okay, what isn't and why under the law, and the standard that's being used, which is reasonable to the community. Is it really reasonable in this day and age to beat your kid? Joining us now, commentator and legal analyst Mel Robbins and our CNN political contributor, Marc Lamont Hill.

Marc, you are here, and Mel is here, because this is about society. Not just about the NFL. They're not living by different rules when it comes to this issue. Forget about Adrian Peterson. He beat the kid. It's an assault. He's gonna go through the process. It is important to note the most common punishment for first time offender with a clean record, even for what he did, probation. You did it to me. You beat me with a stick right now. Which I know you think about from time to time, you are not getting probation. But spanking, change the context, which is again, legal. The only person you can hit under the law, except in self-defense, is a child. Which I just think shocks the conscious, but not you. Why?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I think it's more complicated than that. As a parent, I make the decision not to spank. For lots of reasons, but it's just not my choice. I think there are more effective ways of parenting, more effective ways of implementing discipline. The American Association of Pediatrics would agree. But there is a place respecting in many people's lives and many cultural lives. I think there is a distinction between spanking and whooping and the type of assault we saw. The problem is, that gets all melded together sometimes. What many people think of as their normal childhood upbringing and discipline, actually something far more violent and far more unacceptable. But there is a very narrow window, where spanking can be done effectively it can be done in a very limited fashion. And according to many experts, there is some value to it.

CUOMO: That's where it gets weak. I tell you, you talk to experts, they'll say, Marc, if you feel you want to do it, do it. But know this, and Mel I'll turn this point to you, you are only doing it for you, Mel. If you put your hands on your kid, you are only doing it to make yourself feel better. Because there is no proof that it provides positive behavioral change long term. I did an hour on it on 20/20. 30 years of research the guy had a field behavioral center, his name is Alan Kazan. Check it out, if you want to check for yourself. No proof. Mel, why is it still okay?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR AND LEGAL ANALYST: It's not okay, Chris.

CUOMO: The law says, even in New York state, open hands okay. If it's reasonable to the community it's okay. Just don't leave any marks.

ROBBINS: See I don't agree with the law, Chris. And you summed it up very succinctly, when you just poised for everybody to stop and marinate on the idea that you can't hit anybody else in society today but can you hit a 3-year-old. That makes zero sense. Every man out there will say you can never hit a woman. Yet they come to the defense of anybody who has the right to discipline their kid, as they see fit, as long as they don't leave welts or scars or bruising of any kind, that's what crosses the line.

And to me, I think in this day and age, we need to eradicate the notion that based on quote, culture, and growing up in a culture where you were hit as a kid that that's somehow an excuse that makes it okay when all of the research shows otherwise.

And they did this crazy study, Chris, from "the Journal of Family Psychology,," that showed that the average 4-year-old is hit, 936 times a year. You've got to know that that adds up over time. I understand Marc's point of view, which is, okay, in very limited circumstances, when you have a calm, cool head and you want to use spanking in a very isolated fashion, there is a place for it. Baloney. Most parents that are utilizing spanking are doing it because they're angry, they're frustrated. They don't have the piece of mind.

HILL: That's part of the problem. The argument that, well, children are the only people that you can spank or physically assault without retribution, that's true. Children can be sent to their room, right? I can't send you to a room and lock you in it. That's forced confinement. There are a lots of things you can do to your kids, that you can't do to other people. So I don't buy that argument because you can only do it to children. That as such makes it wrong. Again, to your point about the studies, yeah you are right. The Landmark study shows that actually shows that physically implementing corporeal punishment on children actually does lead to short-term compliance.

CUOMO: That's called fear. That's not complex. That's fear.

HILL: Children are scared of their parents.

CUOMO: If you hit me, so I don't do what you told me not to do. But I will do it later.

HILL: But understand my point. I'm saying subsequent studies actually push back and say that may not be true. So I'm conceding that there are --

CUOMO: Some may not. I think your better argument --

ROBBINS: The studies are non-stop. Here's the other thing parents don't understand is that, a lot of times you are hitting the kids because they're not complying with particular rules of the household, but what parents don't understand that many times it's a developmental thing. Where a 4-year-old is curious, a 5-year-old is exploring.

HILL: I agree.

I'm not pro-spanking as much as I'm saying there is a very narrow window where I don't think that it does have development detriment.. CUOMO: I get it. You are a professor at Columbia. You're a smart guy. I know you get it. But there is a culture at play here. It's a culture of violence. We shouldn't ignore it. Listen to Charles Barkley. Yes, he can try to be incendiary, but I don't think he is here. Listen to what he said about this, about why this makes sense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES BARKLEY, RETIRED NBA PLAYER: I'm from the South. Whipping is, we do that all the time. Every black parent in the South is going to be in jail on his own circumstances.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: What do you think?

HILL: He raised another point. Again, there is a history and a tradition of spanking, particularly in the African South. Some link it to slavery. There are some very compelling historical arguments that says this comes right out of the tradition of slavery and passing down a ritual of violence as a form of discipline and control. That's very dangerous and very problematic. And unfortunately, that's what most of us experienced, not the discipline, I'm going to spank you with all of your clothes on with an open hand three times if you're 5- years-old while I explain your punishment to you. Which again, I think The American Psychological Association says actually does have limited benefits, or at least not detriment.

But it's going and getting a stick off the tree and beating someone, it becomes very messy and very dangerous. I don't think culture is an excuse for bad behavior. Female genital mutilations are a cultural practice in certain countries. Stoning people is a cultural practice in many countries. So I don't accept culture as an excuse for bad behavior.

CUOMO: Mel, do you think you just don't get it because you are white?

ROBBINS: No, I was spanked by my parents growing up in the Midwest. I spanked our daughter once and my husband took me to task and basically said you are not going to do that to our kids. Because it is lazy and dangerous parenting and I don't believe in it. And he had me stop and think about it. So the second thing you as a parent have to pick something up like a wooden spoon, which was my mother's favorite instrument or a belt or a switch or anything to hit your kid, you have crossed the line in my mind.

HILL: I got all of those.

ROBBINS: I'm sure you did Marc, but it doesn't make it okay. And there are lots of things that were culturally okay and legal in the South. This is one of the things that we should be adding to the list. It's not okay.

CUOMO: Here's the problem. We're all saying it's wrong, right? And yet the law still allows it. It just shows that there is not progress here. Here's what I saw, I'll end it on this, Mel, Marc, thank you very much.

This weekend I called it spanking because Adrian Peterson called it spanking. It was Saturday. Frankly, I hadn't gotten into the details enough of it yet. Then I saw the police report and the pictures, and I was like this isn't spanking. There is no question about it. The interesting thing was, people would say, and this goes to the root of why spanking and hitting exist in the first place, how could you call this spanking? I'd like to beat your a -- that's their response. So you don't like that someone's talking about hitting a kid and your response is to threaten to hit somebody else. That's why it exists in our culture in the first place. It's not black/white. It's not North/South. It's violent. It shouldn't be recognized in the law, and it is. That was a very good set of perspectives from both of you. I probably added nothing. But Mel, Marc, again, thanks you very much.

ROBBINS: Oh, stop. You added a lot, Chris, as always.

CUOMO: Just weeks after the Michael Brown shooting with now have another black man allegedly shot in the back by police while running away. In the back, by police, while running away. This time he was carrying a toy sword. His mother is speaking out. What happened here, race is obviously being raised. We will take you through it.

And Hillary Clinton. She's teasing us. She's in Iowa. Who goes to Iowa if you don't wan to run for president? It's a beautiful place, but we know who goes there when they're politicians. She says she is thinking about running for president. She wasn't the only potential 2016 candidate in the Hawkeye state. We have details ahead on "INSIDE POLITICS." Stay with us.

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