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New Day
President Obama Wins Support for Arming Rebels; Many Question Effectiveness of Obama's Plan; Arizona Cardinals' Jonathan Dwyer Arrested for Domestic Violence; NFL Needs Stronger Consequences
Aired September 18, 2014 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. is ramping up efforts in the fight against ISIS. The House of Representatives voting to arm the Syrian rebels. And the Senate expected to follow suit and do the same later today. That is just one front, though, of the fight against ISIS. The other of course in Iraq and President Obama continues to emphasize the limits of U.S. actions there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As your commander-in- chief, I will not commit you and the rest of our armed forces to fighting another ground war in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: So is the administration's plan going to be effective to defeat ISIS and should the U.S. be trying to take on the terror group at all, as many are beginning to question?
Joining me now to discuss, Kirk Lippold, the -- he was the commanding officer of the USS Cole when it was bombed by al Qaeda terrorists back in 2000. And also joining us this morning, Hillary Mann Leverett, author of "Going to Tehran: Why America Must Accept the Islamic Republic of Iran."
Good morning to both of you.
Good morning.
KIRK LIPPOLD, FORMER USS COLE COMMANDER: Good morning, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Commander, let me start with you. We just had the president's deputy national security adviser on, Tony Blinken. And on the issue of Syria, since that's where the focus is today with the Senate expected to vote. He said that the government over the past couple years has built up a knowledge base so they believe that they can better vet these rebels, they know what they're capable of, how they will fight and what they can do. This moderate opposition in Syria.
But there is a lot of skepticism on Capitol Hill. We heard that from Senator Susan Collins today. Do you think that the moderate opposition can be trusted? LIPPOLD: Right now unless we know specifically who they are and in
fact have intelligence with people on the ground who are with them, working with them, and feeding back into our intelligence apparatus, I would be very apprehensive because we need to look at the second and third order effects of arming them.
When we arm those Syrian rebels even if they are moderates, if we believe that those weapons would only be used against ISIS and not the Assad government I think we're deluding ourselves.
BOLDUAN: I mean, Hillary, so what then?
HILLARY MANN LEVERETT, CEO OF STRATEGIC ENERGY AND GLOBAL ANALYSIS: Well, I agree, in fact, it's the so-called moderate Syrian oppositionists who reportedly kidnapped Steve Sotloff, the American journalist, and sold him to ISIS to be beheaded.
We're talking about hundreds of militias there who have entered into a non-aggression pact with ISIS to fight against the Assad government. We have gone -- we've gone through this -- down this disastrous road before when we've armed, trained and funded Sunni militants in Afghanistan, in Libya, in Iraq itself, 80,000 there. We know how this story ends.
Every single time those American weapons, those trained soldiers, trained by the United States come back to attack us. We know how this ends. We really need to now get out of the way. We need to recast our policy in the Middle East, and take a step back. We put 125,000 troops into Iraq, eight years of time.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: Right, but Hillary --
LEVERETT: A trillion dollars.
BOLDUAN: If you don't -- if you don't take on --
LEVERETT: We need to step back and say that didn't work.
BOLDUAN: If you don't take on ISIS in Syria, why even take on ISIS at all in Iraq?
LEVERETT: We shouldn't. This is a scorpion. We either need to get out of the way for this scorpion or we step on it to our peril as we're hearing about today in Australia, a purported plot by ISIS sympathizers. There are Americans who are in ISIS. There are lots of Europeans and there are thousands of Saudis and other Arabs and Muslims in ISIS.
This is a problem in the Middle East particularly in the Sunni Muslim world and right now their target is Mecca and Medina, to take over the Sunni Muslim world and establish a caliphate there. If we bomb them and continue to bomb them, their target will be here as was al Qaeda, their target will be New York, but right now it's not. We can prevent another 9/11, if we had a better policy but instead of stepping back and admitting the problems in our own previous policies, we're doubling down on those very same problems and creating the conditions for yet another 9/11.
LIPPOLD: I need to step in there, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Yes. No, no, go ahead, Commander. I want to get your response to that.
LIPPOLD: I think at this point a policy of disengagement with the belief that if we do not get involved over there is somehow going to preserve American lives because they won't attack us is not based on any degree of fact. They've already kidnapped Americans. That means they're already harming Americans. The fact that they stepped it up for strategic purposes to behead them, to recruit clearly indicates that there will be no end to this.
We need to do exactly what she said and that is step on the scorpion. If we're going to get engaged, we need to be able to use every instrument of national power at the president's disposal. When the president says, I am not going to commit ground troops. If, in fact, ISIS is an existential threat to the United States, if in fact we believe that we are at war with them, then the president must be willing to commit and that means ground troops, if necessary.
Otherwise, our allies in the region are already hesitating because they know we are not full in. If it's a threat to Americans --
LEVERETT: But the fact that --
LIPPOLD: If it's a threat to Americans --
BOLDUAN: Hold on, Hillary. Go ahead, Commander.
LIPPOLD: If it's a threat to Americans then we have to assess that threat, determine if that threat is going to come here and every indicator even before the beheading of the two journalists was -- happened, then we need to go after them.
BOLDUAN: Go ahead, Hillary.
LIPPOLD: And to not do that is trouble.
LEVERETT: The facts are from President Obama saying that ISIS was the JV team of terrorism to our own CIA, to our own Center for Counterterrorism, the facts are right now ISIS does not have the United States as a target. What we're doing, though, puts us in their target range. We could get out of their way or we can make ourselves a target.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVERETT: The facts are, we put -- we put hundreds of thousands of troops into the Middle East, $1 trillion and eight years of never- ending war. President Obama had a chance to recalibrate, to restore our relationship with the Muslim world. That's what he came in, when he said he was elected. BOLDUAN: Right -- right now --
LEVERETT: But instead of doing that, instead of restoring our relations with the Muslim world he doubled down on the policies of the prior administration, continued having large troop presence there, and antagonizing the Muslim world.
Libya, the disaster in Libya --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: Let's look -- but let's --
LEVERETT: -- was wholly created and opened another battlefield for these Islamist militants.
BOLDUAN: OK.
LEVERETT: They have battlefields on Iraq, Syria or Libya.
BOLDUAN: Let's look in -- let's talk about where we are right now, though. Let's talk about where we are right now. Because there's no indication that the White House is going to be pulling back any further from the strategy that the president laid out in his address to the nation.
LEVERETT: But there's also --
BOLDUAN: So right now --
LEVERETT: There's no indication that he's committed to the strategy either.
BOLDUAN: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
LEVERETT: There's a tremendous amount of (INAUDIBLE) in the White House.
BOLDUAN: Let me actually -- I want you to get in on that Hillary as well, but I also want to direct that question to you as well, Commander. Because you're not -- it sounds like you have very little confidence in the rebels in Syria, in the moderate opposition, but then what is the alternative because as you said, you need to go into Syria if you're at all going to tackle and defeat ISIS?
LIPPOLD: I think one specific area that we have not addressed and we have to look at is, what are the funding sources for ISIS? How are they getting the money? Are they getting it through the sale of elicit oil going throughout the region?
We need to look at what is funding them, how are they being funded, what are the financial backing. Because if we can get to those sources, and that is going to require a very robust intelligence response, you cut them off financially, you go to the governments where we have traced it back to, where they're providing support or turning a blind eye to their people who are supporting, Saudi Arabia, for example, then we put the squeeze on them.
If it's a threat to the region, those other countries should recognize that threat and do what is necessary. That's one aspect that hasn't even been addressed yet. But by the same token I still believe every instrument of national power needs to be addressed. I think the American people at this point are realizing that we have a somewhat disjointed response to this threat that is coming to the United States.
BOLDUAN: And it seems -- and it seems --
LIPPOLD: And if we don't begin to address it we are going to be in trouble because they will come here. You have kidnapped Americans and to somehow believe that just because we have people over there -- they're harming Americans already.
BOLDUAN: And it seems, Hillary, the disjointed response you may agree on but for very different reasons. Go ahead.
LEVERETT: Yes. And this point about the financing is -- you know, that's something that we've heard about every one of these aspects in the so-called war on terror. The real problem that we ignore to our peril is what is happening among Sunni and Muslim populations who are becoming even more alienated and even more resentful to the United States. As the CIA has put out, they have now dramatically revised their estimates of the number of warriors who are fighting for ISIS.
That's not because they're being paid. That's because they believe in it, they want to join this fight. We've gone from an estimate of 5,000 fighters to now over 30,000 fighters. That surge in recruitment is because they see it now as a U.S. war against Islam, because the United States has increased this bombing and has put -- has declared itself to recommit to a never-ending war against Islam.
BOLDUAN: Well, one -- one thing we --
LEVERETT: That is surging recruitment, so instead of now having a couple hundred people that they could tap into to get a suicide bomber to get on the next plane to New York, they now have about 50,000. That's a serious threat. That's a threat to the United States.
BOLDUAN: Well, I mean, that -- that is a scary thought.
LEVERETT: That not trying to get rid of them.
BOLDUAN: No, that is a scary thought. I mean, that is one point, though, that the president's deputy national security adviser was definitely trying to hammer home in his interview with Chris a little earlier, is that there are more than 40 countries that are -- want to take part in this coalition and they're going to be rolling out. I think that's where a big question has been.
They're going to be rolling out what their roles are, what they're going to be doing, what they feel comfortable contributing, that's the part where I think there's a lot of question, what their buy-in actually is.
Commander Kirk Lippold, Hillary Mann Leverett, thank you very much. An important conversation and you guys are hitting all the right -- all the right points in that debate.
All right, coming up. Another NFL star player arrested for domestic violence. We're going to talk with former Vikings great about the NFL's troubles and if he thinks the league is doing enough to address it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right here we go with the five things you need to know for your NEW DAY.
At number one New York Police Commissioner Bill Bratton says the city has entered a new -- era, rather, of terror threats. He says the expanded potential for attacks in New York can be seen in the rest of a Rochester man charged with supporting ISIS.
Police raids in Australia foiling what authorities say was a pending terror attack. Reports say someone could have been beheaded in public. Seven people are now in custody, two of them charged, one with terror and conspiracy counts.
Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson has appeared before a grand jury investigating the Michael brown shooting. Officer Wilson was said to be cooperative Wednesday as he recounted the fatal shooting of the unarmed teenager last month.
A senior VA official now admits that delays in health care led to deaths of patients at the VA system in Phoenix. This is a reversal from an earlier agency report that found no link between deaths and delays in medical care there.
And at number five, it is decision day in Scotland. Voters now answering yes or no to the referendum question, should Scotland be an independent nation? We should know the results of that vote tomorrow morning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PEREIRA (on camera): Those are the five things to know for your NEW DAY. Now, here are a few extras to help brighten your day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PEREIRA: Arizona Cardinals running back Jonathan Dwyer now has been deactivated over domestic abuse allegations, the latest in a string of serious missteps for the league. NFL great Fran Tarkenton will join us to talk about all that's going on with the NFL.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Ten minutes before the hour here. (BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
CUOMO (voice-over): Arizona Cardinals running back Jonathan Dwyer, the latest football star taken off the field after a domestic violence charge. This time with Dwyer he was booked on charges of aggravated assault and preventing someone from calling 911.
What is going on with the NFL? Are they really the center of society's problem with domestic violence and what we're doing with our kids?
(END VIDEOCLIP)
CUOMO (on camera): Let's bring in Fran Tarkenton, that's a name you know. Hall of fame quarterback, played for the Vikings 13 seasons, including being on the first team for the club. He's also the founder of gosmallbiz.com. Pleasure to have you on Mr. Tarkenton.
FRAN TARKENTON, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Thank you very much, Chris, good to be with you.
CUOMO: Unfortunate to discuss the Vikings in this context, but as someone who built the ball club's reputation, how do you feel it is handling this situation?
TARKENTON: I think they're doing very well. When you've got leaders in the Wilf brothers that own the Vikings, they're great citizens, they're doing a great job with our team and when this happened with Adrian Peterson they got it right the first time and didn't let him play last week. Then they went back and said well, we're going to let him play this week and let the legal system play its way out.
The response for that was really pretty horrific. I responded and said I was embarrassed that they made this decision. This is really tough stuff, important stuff. If we cannot protect our children and protect our women, what kind of a country are we? And the NFL is the face right now of America.
It's out there, we're watching NFL football Thursday night, Saturday -- Friday, Sunday nights, Monday nights. Everybody wants to watch professional football by the tens of millions, and this is a platform for the Wilfs and the other owners, and a platform for Roger Goodell to get this right and make sure we show the women of America and the children that we have their back, and I think what's been done by the Wilfs is really good.
CUOMO: They went back and forth, right?
TARKENTON: Yes
CUOMO: That wasn't the best kind of leadership. Do you think that the team, and then of course the league, the league really is about the owners, do you think the owners of the Vikings should come out and say here is our policy? If you get jammed up or arrested for hurting anyone, let alone a woman, a domestic violence situation, including kids, you are off the team. We'll pay you, but you're off the team until the situation resolves. Should they just come out and say it?
TARKENTON: I think they will. I think that you will find Roger Goodell coming out with some tough, tough words and penalties to handle this type of behavior. It's unacceptable. It should be zero tolerance, and I think that's understood now by the owners and understood by the league. We need Roger Goodell and his leadership to come out and be very strong on this.
This Jonathan Dwyer thing that just came up, that he's now been accused of this kind of abusing women, domestic violence, and immediately the Arizona team have suspended him. That's exactly what they should do, and because if you take these people off the field, and in some cases take their paycheck away, you'll get their attention. But we're going to get the attention from the rest of the country because this is a very visible organization, the NFL.
CUOMO: Why hasn't the league come out and said here's the policy. Forget about six games.
TARKENTON: Yes.
CUOMO: Until it's resolved, if you get arrested for this type of crime, you're out until then. The players union will push back, and they'll say well hold on, you can't take away their money, what if it's resolved in their favor? So you just keep paying them. Money is not a problem for the league.
TARKENTON: Not a problem at all, and you've got a good point there, and I think that you will see -- I very much expect something to come out of Roger Goodell's office on this type of punishment. It came out the first time, it said two-game suspension and he said I was wrong.
Isn't it nice that we hear a leader say I was wrong? And he came back and he increased it, and to six games and the second time that this happens it's permanent dismissal. I think he'll come back with very, very strong actions against this type of behavior, and other types of negative behavior that could go on with NFL players.
CUOMO: Well, Fran, it's good to hear a leader admit when they're wrong. It's even better for them to get it right, and we're still waiting for that part.
Let me ask you something, though. Your connection to the team is still very strong. Adrian Peterson, many are just getting introduced to him if they're not a fan of the NFL, and even if they are they're just getting introduced to him as a person. What do you know about him as a person?
TARKENTON: Everything I hear is great. He's probably the greatest running back we've seen since Jimmy Brown. People like him, respect him and I think it's very hard on the people of Minnesota, its hard on the football team.
This needs to be looked at. He's been charged with abuse of a 4-year- old child of his. I think he had an issue with another young child of his a year before that we never heard about, and I think it's got to be vetted out, and I think they're doing the right thing. They're paying Adrian Peterson, they're taking him away from the team so he can deal with his own legal problems and let's see where it goes.
CUOMO: Fran Tarkenton, it was amazing watching you play, you're a legend in this sport and it's important to have your voice on this. Thank you for being on NEW DAY.
TARKENTON: Thank you very much.
CUOMO: Alright, we're also going to have more on that chilling terror threat and raid in Australia. Plotting to kidnap and behead a member of the public. How real was the threat, how did they stop it? Ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: The big question today is what is the Senate going to do? And obviously we're inviting the leaders to come on and talk about their positions, because there are a lot of complaints, especially coming out about the Senate about this. And the big questions is, where is the debate?
I said earlier, Senator Bob Corker. He's very outspoken in his problems about the plan. He says it doesn't sound serious. Well, is he as serious about having a vote? His office called and said don't unfairly criticize the senator. He has called for a vote, he does want a debate. I'd like him to come on the show and make that position. But, that's the kind of leadership that they're going to need to have a debate about this. Let's see where the Senate takes it. The ISIS problem is not getting any better otherwise.
BOLDUAN: Not going away at all. Its only getting worse.
