Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Interview with Rep. Jim Himes; Manhunt in Pennsylvania for Alleged Killer; Education Focussing on STEM Subjects; Impact of Spanking Children

Aired September 22, 2014 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Let's bring in Democratic congressman, Jim Himes. He's from Connecticut. He sits on the House Intelligence Committee. And most relevant, congressman, good to have you this morning.

REP. JIM HIMES (D), CONNECTICUT: Good morning, Chris.

CUOMO: You voted no to arming the Syrian rebels. I think one of the overlooked problems going on here is how Congress is passing the buck to the president on what is certainly a war situation. You voted no. What do you make of Congress not meeting, debating, voting on a war resolution?

HIMES: Well, I was very disappointed by the fact that we did not. And, of course, in giving the president the authority to arm the so called moderate Syrian rebels, we have given up the one piece of leverage that we had to force that debate. And, look, this isn't something that necessarily has to do with today's situation with the Syrian rebels. This has to do with 60 years of war making authority gradually migrating from the place that the Constitution put it, that is to say the United States Congress, to the White House, to the point where, you know, one man, it doesn't have to be this president, it can be any president, is gradually getting the authority to make war in contradiction (ph) to the Constitution. So I'm kind of disappointed that we didn't have this debate on what is a very, very complicated topic.

CUOMO: And when we're talking about the specific action, which at this point is the bombings, which is easy in terms of allowing it because we have a history there and there are no people in jeopardy, other than those flying the missions. And then you have the piece of, well, who do you give these weapons to? That's a big reason that you voted no. You now have Panetta and others coming forward and saying, yes, we were going to do this a few years ago. That was Obama's mistake. He should have done it then. Was there any confidence then that we knew who we were giving weapons to?

HIMES: Well, look, the problems that exist today would have existed back then too, it's just that ISIS would have had less of a platform.

Look, when you're creating a proxy army in somebody else's country without an ability to command and control that proxy army, which, of course, is what we've now given the authority to do, the unintended consequences are many. And this is a region of the world where the unintended consequences over many, many decades have often been an awful lot worse than we anticipated rather than better. So I understand that, you know, this was discussed some time ago and, in fact, there have been other countries arming rebels for some period of time. But the question now is, the decision was made by Congress and, of course, the question now is, what kind of international support can we get? So this looks a little bit like George H.W. Bush's to get Iraq out of Kuwait and a little bit less like what was a somewhat less enthusiastic effort in George W. Bush's efforts in Iraq.

CUOMO: Let's be honest, congressman, it's not looking good. We keep saying, well, this is their war, this is a regional fight, this is for the sole of Islam, this is about the Middle East and we're just going to help. None of these big guys are putting boots on the ground, will commit troops to action. Do you think something will change at the U.N. this week?

HIMES: Well, you know, I think there's a couple of opportunities at the U.N. First is, of course, to actually get something other than U.S. branded proxy armies and U.S. aircraft in the air so that this really doesn't become something that none of us want it to be, which is a U.S. versus ISIS fight. But, you know, I'd suggest there's probably two other really important things that can be accomplished or attempted to be accomplished at the U.N.

One is, many of these countries, Chris, as you know, are - you know, while they sort of publicly say that they don't like ISIS, they are allowing certain of their citizens to actually fund ISIS, to recruit to places like Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, Turkey, of course, because they've got some diplomats held by ISIS, is allowing ISIS to run rampant across the border. That must change.

The other thing I would say, Chris, is, you know, we have no control over clerics in the region. And this is a moment, finally, a great long last, for clerics in the Islamic religion to stand up and say, these guys have absolutely nothing to do with Islam, so that ISIS' religious legitimacy is taken away from them. That -- we can make progress on that this week I think at the U.N.

CUOMO: You raise the Turk situation. People should be paying attention to that. There was the release of the prisoners. What was negotiated to have that happen? We don't really know yet. They're a key party. Not an Arab nation, obviously, but key to this situation. ISIS has them in the cross hairs. A lot of unknowns there.

Lastly, this American - apparently American member of ISIS. We keep saying it's a regional conflict, it's about them not us. What's the chance that you have Americans in positions of command and control within ISIS?

HIMES: Well, the chances are reasonably good. Look, there are somewhere between several hundred and, you know, some figures go up depending on what country you're talking about, to many thousands of westerners fighting with ISIS. And this is really - it is a frightening thing. But people also need to remember that our intelligence community and our law enforcement people who have received tremendous numbers of new resources since 9/11, their very job is to track these people and to make sure that if and when they come back, they do not pose a threat. So it's not a - not a - not an attractive thing for us to think about, but there are hundreds if not thousands of security people who are - who are working on making sure we know what these people are up to.

CUOMO: Congressman Jim Himes, thank you very much for joining us on NEW DAY.

HIMES: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, a town, paralyzed. An armed and dangerous fugitive remains on the run. You're looking at him on your screen. Are police zeroing in on Eric Frein? We're live in Pennsylvania with the latest.

Plus, NFL star Adrian Peterson's child abuse case has reignited the debate on spanking. Now, I wonder if that's really even true? Is there really any debate on spanking? It seems everybody think it's OK. But is there a good basis for that? Is there any research? What are we doing to our kids? We're going to discuss it, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It is time now for the five things you need to know for your new day.

Number one, the U.S. launches new air strikes against ISIS in Iraq. This as the terrorists drive hundreds of thousands out of northern Syria. President Obama will chair a Security Council meeting on the ISIS threat at this week's U.N. General Assembly.

Security is tight after two incidents at the White House. one of them involving a 42-year-old Iraq War vet who hopped the fence on Friday and entered the executive mansion with a knife. He'll be in court today.

In the search for missing University of Virginia student Hannah Graham, police have identified this man, Jesse Matthew, as someone they would like to speak with. Graham's anguished parents now are speaking out, calling her disappearance their worst nightmare.

One hundred tons of medical supplies have arrived in West Africa to help fight the spread of the deadly Ebola virus. $6 million worth of supplies have been donated by humanitarian groups.

And it took nearly a year and 442 million miles to get there. There's really no shorter way. But NASA's Maven Explorer has made it to Mars. The spacecraft, it will not land. It will study the upper atmosphere of Mars from orbit.

We're always updating the five things you need to know, so go to newdaycnn.com for the latest.

Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, John. Pennsylvania police hot on the trail of an alleged killer Thirty-one- year-old Eric Frein is wanted for the deadly ambush of a state trooper. He's been on the run now for 10 days and people in the area are living in fear. Some schools remain closed. And over the weekend, residents were forced to shelter in place. Police believe though that Frein hid or abandoned a rifle that they found in the woods. CNN's Alexandra Field live for us in Pennsylvania.

Alexandra, update us.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Brianna.

Look, police believe that he is armed and dangerous. He's been on the run for more than a week. That's why schools have closed for yet another day here. And police are saying they've learned more about their suspect, Eric Frein. They tell us they believe that he has been plotting for months, if not for years, for a confrontation with law enforcement. That said, they are confident that they now have him in an area that's just a few square miles. It's a heavily wooded area, but they are confident that that is where their suspect is. They found an AK-47. They also found some ammunition that they say Frein left behind. It isn't clear whether or not he intended to leave those things behind, whether or not he intended for law enforcement to find those things.

What we do know is that there have been several reported sightings of Frein. Law enforcement is not able to say whether or not those sightings are credible at this time. But, Brianna, I think a lot of people are wondering, they are 400 different law enforcement officers out here. There are dogs, everyone trying to track this suspect. How has he managed to evade law enforcement when he appears to be in this somewhat restricted area? Well, here's the answer. Police say that, again, this is a heavily wooded area. He has a leg up on them in that way. He know this terrain. It's near his family's home. Also, officers need to take caution as they pursue this suspect. They know that he is armed and dangerous and that he has a grudge against law enforcement. So everyone's trying to get out of this in the safest way possible.

Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, it's basically his backyard and that's why he has an advantage.

Alexandra Field following this for us in Pennsylvania, thanks.

CUOMO: All right, we used to call it just math and science. Well now it's often referred to by the acronym STEM. During the next four weeks, we're going to take a look at some surprising faces and facts behind the four letters that have ignited a pretty hot debate about education, immigration and the future of the U.S. economy. Michaela Pereira is going to kick off our series, "The Science of Work" is the story she's going to tell you about. What is STEM and why should it matter to you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: STEM, it stands for science, technology, engineering and math. There's a school of thought there are more jobs than there are qualified people to fill them. The theory, train more Americans, reduce unemployment and help the economy.

Let's look at the class of 2012. Just 16 percent of undergraduates got a degree in the STEM majors. That seems small, right? The Obama administration certainly thinks so and has invested millions to increase those numbers.

But is it worth it? Some say no. They say there is no skills gap, just a lack of competitive wages and training options from companies. There's no doubt STEM jobs are on the rise. The Department of Commerce predicts they'll grow nearly twice as much as other professions between 2008 and 2018 and that workers in other fields are more likely to be unemployed.

So how about wages? The same report shows that STEM workers earn 26 percent more. In fact, the top 10 paying majors for the graduating class of 2013 were all STEM. But before you reach for that Bunsen burner, let me drop some knowledge. The Bureau of Labor says the vast majority of STEM jobs are related to computers and IT. Their mean wages are higher than the U.S. average, but not by much. And, guess what, Career Builders says IT jobs are the hardest ones to fill.

So what about the big bucks? The five highest paying STEM graduate jobs, according to Forbes, are marine engineer, petroleum engineer, nuclear engineer, technology analyst and chemical engineer. You know, the easy ones. So as technology evolves and becomes an even bigger part of our lives, one thing is clear, no matter what job you do, STEM will be everywhere. So make sure you're ready.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Take home is, become an engineer, I think is what is the take home lesson there.

CUOMO: I know. I know. But, look, we've known it for a long time, that knowing how to be useful in the technological age is what matters most. So, thanks to Mic for laying it out for all of us.

KEILAR: A very good report.

All right, next up, is spanking an effective way to punish your children? So many parents have strong feelings about this on both sides of the debate. Dr. Drew Pinsky is going to be here and we will talk to him about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Alright. So you ready for this one? It's about 12 minutes to 9:00 here in the East and it's worth taking a listen. Right, there's all this talk surrounding the Adrian Peterson child abuse case, and there should be. He left bruises, he hit the kid with a stick, he went too far. Even the law is going to say he went too far. But is hitting okay? Yes is the answer. Why? Because according to

"The New York Times," general social survey poll, 70 percent of you approve of spanking. So, what does this mean? How can this be okay? We're not really talking about it with the NFL situation, but we should and we will right now.

Dr. Drew Pinsky. You know him, he's host of HLN's "Dr. Drew On Call." We want to talk about prostate cancer as well.

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, "DR. DREW ON CALL": Prostate cancer, too

CUOMO: Because this is the month, and we will, and I know it means much to you personally.

PINSKY: Yes, indeed.

CUOMO: So, let's deal with this. I can't think of anything else that society has more wrong than the idea that hitting a kid can be a good thing. Why are we still here?

PINSKY: The why, I'm sorry, I can't answer. Because if there was any evidence that it was a proper way to parent, a useful way to parent, a productive way to parent, I would advocate it.

But the fact is, the research, every bit of study, every expert agrees there's zero reason to hit your kid. It does nothing good. I can tell you as someone who worked with people with criminal histories, people with drug addiction histories, virtually 100 percent of them had a history of physical abuse.

They will all sit there and tell me, well, I needed it. It was good for me. I'm going to do that for my kid, because I needed it. Not making any connection between the abuse and where they ended up. And yet the connection is overwhelmingly obvious. Not that everybody that's physically abused is going to end up with those problems. But, if you want to put your kid at risk for those kinds of problems, that's exactly the way to do it.

CUOMO: Alright, so let's put it on trial, because no one agrees with you. I agree with you.

PINSKY: All the experts agree with. Parenting experts agree with me. And by the way, there's nothing in principle wrong with it except that it doesn't work. It's not good for kids. It's not healthy.

CUOMO: I think you could argue fundamentally there's something - -

PINSKY: Well, suffering of children is wrong.

CUOMO: You're hitting your kid.

PINSKY: Yes. You subjecting your children to suffering - - the real thing that you end up subjecting the kids to is terror.

We know what happens to a child's brain during terror. It shatters its ability to regulate so it becomes emotionally unregulated. CUOMO: Right.

PINSKY: And that's what leads to the things like drug addiction and acting out and acting in. Eating disorders, cutting, all that kind of stuff.

CUOMO: And now they're home, they're saying bla bla bla, lefty bleeding heart.

PINSKY: And I'm not that, I'm not.

CUOMO: But that's the push back. We get into this topic, right? The number one thing that people say is hey, I was spanked as a kid, and I turned out just fine. In fact - -

PINSKY: Yes, all my drug addicts and all my criminals say the exact same thing. And there's a crazy thing about the experience of abuse of all kinds is we wall it off. Our brain literally doesn't wire that part of the brain.

CUOMO: Well, you don't want to blame your parents for what they did to you.

PINSKY: You have no access to it. You can't access it.

CUOMO: You don't want to say something bad was done to you.

PINSKY: Right.

CUOMO: You know, I'm saying, if you're not a drug addict, you are fine.

PINSKY: Yes.

CUOMO: You say, well, I was spanked. I'm okay. Isn't the reality that yes, your were spanked. Yes, you're okay. But, you are okay despite the spanking, not for it.

PINSKY: But for the grace of God you're okay. And spanking - - you and I talked off the air a second, a little bit of a different topic.

Let's keep in the realm of where the child's physical body is violated. There's some sort of -- the integrity of their body is threatened. That is damaging. There's simply no question about it.

CUOMO: But I think that makes it too easy, because spanking is the wheel house of this. Because that's what everybody refers to as spanking. Don't beat them with a stick, don't leave marks. Although, everybody has this same romantic notion of going out and picking their own switch.

PINSKY: You're making me sad. You're correct. However, spanking is so defended by people.

CUOMO: How? What is the legitimate basis for it?

PINSKY: None.

CUOMO: Is there any clinical research that supports it?

PINSKY: It's not as clear cut as physical abuse, where the consequences are profound, but there's nothing positive about it. There are always better alternatives. If you reach your hand or you yell at your child, you missed a parenting opportunity three steps earlier. We need to educate people at being good parents.

CUOMO: The only clinical research I could find that connects spanking to an affirmative outcome with a child, the affirmative outcome is increased aggression.

PINSKY: Yes, if you want to create a violent person or warrior, that's a good way to do it. Its a good way to do it.

CUOMO: It increases aggression, it makes the kid fear you, not respect you. And if they still turn out okay, it's despite it, because what else they pick up from you. Not the spanking.

PINSKY: And where a lot of this stuff gets played out is in the interpersonal sphere, the relationships. You know, the romantic relationships too get messed up, but people don't see that and make the connection.

CUOMO: Well, look. We're nowhere near it. It's so popular, it's so okay. I don't get it.

PINSKY: I don't either.

CUOMO: But you do. So, let's keep the discussion going, because at least we're talking about it finally.

PINSKY: Yes, its good.

CUOMO: You know how to get us on social media. I don't know what matters more than our kids and we're hitting them, and the law says it's okay.

PINSKY: Prostate cancer.

CUOMO: Prostate cancer.

PINSKY: Matters almost as much.

CUOMO: Now, this is the month, this is the awareness month. You've had to handle it. What don't people know, what do you need to be aware of?

PINSKY: If you have more questions go to pcf.org. Its a prostate cancer foundation.

CUOMO: Pcf.org.

PINSKY: That's right. We fund research for prostate cancer and lots of information for patients. But the fact is, one in seven men are going to get this. If you live long enough, you're going to get it. CUOMO: Age range? When should you start getting checked?

PINSKY: If you have a first degree relative under 65 with cancer, prostate cancer, 40. For everyone else, probably 50, but discuss that with your own physician because these are really important discussions.

Everything is very individual with prostate cancer. It's the kind of tumor, the grade of tumor, the location of the tumor, the context if you have relatives with this disease. How you should be treated, when you should be treated, and when you should be screened.

But I'm a big advocate of significant screening, but don't freak out by the diagnosis of cancer if you get it. I was under watchful waiting for three years before I had a definitive procedure and now I'm fine.

CUOMO: Thank God for that.

What do you say to the men who say I don't like that test? I don't like how they do it.

PINSKY: I know - - I didn't enjoy any of it, but that's ridiculous. That is ridiculous. This is a disease where if you get it early, you can really cure it. It's just as insane as the spanking argument for men to ignore their screening of prostate cancer.

CUOMO: Thank you so much, Dr. Drew. Thank God you're well.

PINSKY: I'm good.

CUOMO: And spreading the word for others.

PINSKY: You bet.

CUOMO: Appreciate it.

PINSKY: Thanks.

CUOMO: Another man who wants to pay it forward, not just Dr. Drew, but we're going to tell you about someone who is doing it to a new level. Treating dozens of customer at a fast food restaurant to a special surprise. It's today's Good Stuff. Boy, do we need it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Monday morning. We will fuel you with the Good Stuff. They say everything is bigger in Texas, and that may include the heart. Why? Here's why.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CUOMO (voice-over): An anonymous man in a Chick-fil-A drive through gave workers $1,000. Why? To pay for everyone in line behind him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was like did you win the lottery today? Like, why are you doing this? He was like well, Mondays are tough. I just want to make everyone have a good day. Like I just want to help them have a good day.

CUOMO: I mean, isn't that nice? The money lasted for an hour, paid for 88 meals. If you think that's no big deal, just hear what it did for people at that Chick-fil-A.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kids last night in the back just going yea.

We had a lady who had had, gosh, just an awful day. She received it, we told her what was going on, and just started crying in the drive- through.

CUOMO: See that, it wasn't just food. It was soul food. And that's why that man, anonymous as he is, should be known by all for being the Good Stuff.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

CUOMO (on camera): Thank you, my friend. A lot of news. Let's get you to the "NEWSROOM" and Ms. Carol Costello.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much. Have a great day. NEWSROOM starts now.