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Scott Brown Targets Shaheen, Obama Over ISIS; New Airstrikes Hit ISIS Oil Supplies In Syria; Interview with Rear Admiral John Kirby; Debate Over the War With ISIS

Aired September 25, 2014 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": And worth nothing, before you jump in, worth nothing -- as we watch this state by state, New Hampshire is the home state of James Foley, the American journalist who was beheaded by ISIS. And if you talk to people in both parties up there who understand the politics, they do say that there's a ripple in that Senate race that they think based on the fact that it's so personal for New Hampshire.

PETER HAMBY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: And Republicans say it's effective with women voters. That the term security moms came up in 2004 and that race. And Scott Brown is going to need that in this race against Eugene. He's in the hunt in this race.

Even though his favorite-unfavorite ratings are upside-down, which is striking so if he can kind of cut into Shaheen's gender gap a little bit, he could be in the race.

KING: You notice I'll just make this point, we talked about how Hillary Clinton did not want to distance herself from the president. Jean Shaheen statement, she does not talk about at this time we should rally around the commander-in-chief and the men and women in uniform.

She only mentions the men and women in uniform. President Obama's approval rating in New Hampshire is in the tank right now. I don't think that was an accidental omission. I think that was perhaps more deliberate.

This one maybe has snuck under the radar because we've had so much time deservedly so in the media looking at the threat, the ISIS threat, the new airstrikes and the coalition.

But Joe Biden on the road this week talking about an issue I always call the quicksand of American politics, immigration. Remember the president said if Republicans don't act, he will. But then he said, he would wait until after the election. Listen to Joe Biden say if it comes to executive action, watch out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If they don't get something done, by the end of the year, the president is going to do it. He's going to do an awful lot. Watch when this election is over. Watch what happens when -- realize that the prospects for future electoral success hinge upon acting rationally. They'll either act rationally or we will act for them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The vice president's definition of rational would be a comprehensive immigration bill that included either legal status or a path to citizenship for the undocumented. I don't think there is anybody in this town and you spend a lot of time covering Congress who think Republicans are ready to do that in the short-term. So if they are not, he says the president will do an awful lot, how do we define that?

JUANA SUMMERS, NPR: An awful lot is a really interesting turn of phrase. This is something that went under the radar. I know a lot of advocates within the Hispanic community, those who favor comprehensive immigration reform are hoping to see a sweeping package from this president after the lawmakers return from the elections.

But it's not really clear to me yet what that will turn out being. But I think the vice president's choice of words is kind of interesting. Not usually a phrase I'd use when I'm talking about Congress.

KING: You know, Peter, one reason the president said wait until after the elections, a lot of the vulnerable Democrats in red state said just drop this, don't do this until after the election. Does it help that the vice president is talking about this, saying it's going to be a lot?

HAMBY: Sure. I mean, the base and Hispanic voters might pay attention to Joe Biden. The way broader American population might not. To your point, the politics change immediately after November and then this becomes a wedge issue for Democrats and something that they can use to drive a wedge between the pragmatists and the Republican Party.

Do you guys actually want to get something done here? Paul Ryan, John Boehner, et cetera or the presidential candidates on the Republican side, who are going to be appealing to the Republican base in places like Iowa and South Carolina, what is their calculation on this issue.

So it is smart politics to back away from it now and lean in after the election.

KING: Peter Hamby, thanks for coming in, the latest Hamby cast on CNN politics. Juana Summers, thanks for coming in as well.

As we get back to you guys in New York, I just want to show a picture this is the president exiting Marine One. There's two marines there, the president has a cup of coffee in his hand. He wishes that hadn't happened that way.

But he salutes, Republicans now trying to have a lot of fun with this. Some trying to raise money with this and some of the late-night comics having a lot of fun with this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY FALLON, LATE NIGHT TV HOST: With all that's going on in the world, I'm surprised he didn't salute with a bottle of Jack Daniels and a cigarette in the other. Boy, you guys, here we go. A rough week.

JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE NIGHT TV HOST: The worst part of the whole thing? Can we zoom in on that? They got his name wrong on the cup. Sunblock yo mama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: A little humor, president getting beat up over that. There's a picture of George W. Bush getting off Barney, one of his dogs. It's a tough job, you got a camera aimed at you 24/7.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Sunblock yo mama. That was very funny. Thank you for that this morning. We needed that right now.

We have much more on the newest round of airstrikes against is inside Syria. The question is, are we flying blind? Why is that the question? Because how successful are the strikes?

We don't really know and we can't really tell because we're not on the ground, despite all the surveillance capabilities that we have. We're going to try to get answers directly from the Pentagon, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. You're watching NEW DAY. Breaking overnight, the U.S. and Arab allies launched another round of airstrikes in Syria, targeting ISIS' oil refineries that fund the terror group.

ISIS brings in an estimated $2 million a day in oil revenue and these attacks aim to cut off the financing. How successful have the strikes been in dismantling the terror group thus far? Let's go back to the Pentagon this morning, to Press Secretary Rear Admiral John Kirby. Admiral Kirby, welcome back. Good morning.

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: Thanks. Good to have you.

BALDWIN: Let's just begin with the latest wave. There's reporting, Iraqi TV reporting strikes in Iraq, both French and coalition airstrikes. Tell me what you know and how effective these have been.

KIRBY: Well, we continue to put pressure on, on ISIL inside Iraq and we have been joined by coalition partners as you noted. We're continuing to strike targets inside Iraq that are both defensive and offensive in nature. There was mix of that overnight.

The bottom line is we're going after these guys in and around Erbil and south and southwest of Baghdad. We continue to hit them where we know that they feel like they are freely operating or whether they are threatening Republicans security forces.

And inside Syria as you know yesterday, we did hit 12 what we call modular oil refineries. These are refineries in the Eastern part of the country. Pretty remote. But they produce 300 to 500 million barrels of refined oil every day. So pretty capable refineries and again a significant source of revenue for ISIL.

BALDWIN: You said the math being approximately give or take $2 million a day. But the thing is, that is small potatoes compared to the billions they have in the banks.

KIRBY: Well, there's no question about that and one of the, one of the targets that we hit a couple of nights ago was their finance center. I mean, they actually have a finance center. This is a well- resourced group. There's no question about that.

And there's only so much you can do militarily to get at all their finances. There's other economic levers that international, the international community is going to have to pull here.

BALDWIN: What about oil fields?

KIRBY: We're focused on the refineries right now. We are trying to get at their infrastructure around the refineries. Not necessarily every part of the refinery, but their ability to use the refinery. Again, we're still assessing the results of the strikes, but we think they're were pretty effective.

BALDWIN: I know you can only say so much as far as what's happening militarily. But of course, you know, you have these targets, but then you have the leaders of ISIS. The fear is that many of them as we discussed yesterday morning are blending in with civilians in Syria. Obviously a lot of them fleeing and hiding. How do you target those people?

KIRBY: We expect they're going to react to the pressure that we put them under. We've seen them change and adapt inside Iraq. We expect that they'll change and adapt inside Syria. I can tell you we're pretty adaptive ourselves and we'll react appropriately to try to keep putting pressure on them.

We also take care to make sure that we limit civilian casualties or collateral damage as much as possible. We try to be very precise, very lethal. If we make a mistake, we're going to own up for that. But we are going to be very careful here as we move forward.

The other thing that I would say is we've been very clear that military solutions alone are not enough. They're necessary, but not sufficient. So when you say getting at these guys there has to be other elements of pressure put upon them other than U.S. airstrikes.

BALDWIN: You brought up a beat ago about civilians and obviously you want to minimize civilian casualties. We here at CNN talked to an activist in the stronghold of Raqqa and that activist told us that these ISIS fighters are moving into homes of civilians. There are fears that they could be used as human shields. How does that complicate things, how would that affect the U.S. and coalition air campaigns?

KIRBY: There's no question that it obviously complicates the use of air power because we do take such care. Unlike them to not hit innocent civilians, not hurt innocent people. So yes, it's going to complicate it from the air.

We've also said from a military perspective, you got to have competent partners on the ground to go after these guys and root them out. It's going to be the Iraqi security forces and Kurdish forces. In Syria, it's going to be the moderate opposition who we hope to start training in the coming months.

BALDWIN: You're absolutely right. Unlike them, unlike what we have seen them do. You know, Admiral Kirby, you talked to Wolf Blitzer yesterday and said the U.S. military is ready to keep pressure on ISIS, quote, "for as long as it takes."

I realize it's impossible to know how long that may be right now. But short-term, Admiral, what is a short-term victory look like?

KIRBY: I think we're in this for a matter of years. And I think we all believe that here in the Pentagon, we're steeling ourselves for that length of time. It's hard to put an end date on that. I can't tell you it's three, five, six, but it's probably several years at the very least.

We're going to be prepared for that. Hopefully it won't take that long. They have a radical, disastrous ideology that is increasingly being rejected, that's the ultimate answer. Good governance is ultimately the answer in Iraq and Syria.

And if good governance gets started in Iraq, and we think the vectors are in the right direction, and we can get rid of the Assad regime will go in Syria, there's a chance there, too, but it's going to take a while.

BALDWIN: But the lines are still the same, you talk to military experts, the lines are the same as they have been the last couple of weeks. At what point does the U.S. military have the success and the lines are redrawn?

KIRBY: Well, right. Remember, it's not about U.S. military success here. It's about the success of the Iraqi people. And it's about the success of the Syrian people to throw off this group, and to institute better governance inside their own borders. That's the real answer here. Not U.S. military airpower.

BALDWIN: OK, Rear Admiral John Kirby, thank you so much. Making progress, reports on the third wave of U.S. and coalition airstrikes. I appreciate it very much.

We were just discussing the war on ISIS, it is well under way and will be for some time. Admiral just saying years, years to come, but not everyone agrees with the president's decision to start it in the first place. Did he have the authority? Should Congress have voted? We'll debate that next on NEW DAY. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Three rounds of airstrikes now and the question remains, is this war against ISIS the right war or the wrong war? Let's discuss with people who know, Retired Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, former Delta Force commander. And Hillary Mann Leverett, she served on the National Security Council for Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, and the author of "Going To Tehran."

So Lieutenant Colonel, I will start with you. You're bombing targets in the coalition. The coalition is therefore growing, there are reports of success on the ground. Why is this proof that this is the right move?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RET.), FORMER DELTA FORCE COMMANDER: Well, Chris, it's completely the right move. I think President Obama did a great job, and I think the great thing is the coalition, these five different elements of the Arab GCC, part of this coalition. They are part of it and even last night they dropped the majority of the munitions in Syria and Iraq. I think it's a great move.

CUOMO: But the lacklustre, they, Hillary, you don't have the big names. You don't have the Egypt, the Turkey, the real parts of Saudi Arabia coming forward and that's because you are exacerbating the cultural crisis going on by using force in the first place. That's the counter argument, make it.

HILLARY MANN LEVERETT, AUTHOR, "GOING TO TEHRAN": Yes, we have the Christian west led by the United States is teaming up with unrepresentative repressive governments particularly in Saudi Arabia that these jihadists hate. Their goal is to overthrow that government.

We are and teaming up with them and we are seeing proof in the pudding, which is the surge in recruitment instead of a few hundred fighters that al Qaeda had at its disposal.

Now ISIS has tens of thousands, which means the pool for the next 9/11 isn't a few hundred, it's tens of thousands including a hundred Americans, thousands of Europeans and of course, thousands of Saudis and others under the so-called allied governments that we've teamed up with.

CUOMO: You're teaming up with the bad guys, Lieutenant Colonel. When you do that you make the people who were oppressed angry and they join extremist groups. Doing this may look good from above, but it's bad on the ground.

REESE: Well, I disagree with what Hillary says. The bombing started three nights ago didn't cause these thousands of recruits to come in. This has been happening over a couple years.

What really happened was, as we pulled out of Iraq and that sucking noise came out of the Middle East, again, unfortunately we have turned our back on one side instead of staying there and keeping things at bay. And now the Sunnis in Iraq are looking at the Shia government down there and now it's caused that issue, which now brought everyone back into that area, which the fight happens. Now they're asking us to come back and help again.

CUOMO: Hillary, let me see if I can get your head shaking in the other direction here. Looking at it in terms of what force did and will do is just one aspect. To look at what matters more, the reason that you're teaming up with bad guys, as you say, is you don't have stability in Republicans.

You have the Sunnis disenfranchised. You have that going in Syria with oppression. You do no work to help the fight for the soul of Islam and if you don't work on those fronts all the might in the world will never make right. Is that a fair point?

LEVERETT: Yes, and I mean, it's not our fight. There is a tremendous, visible, dramatic upheaval going on within the Sunni Muslim world, that is a fight as bloody as it is that has to happen among Muslims in the Sunni world.

If we step into that, we make ourselves a target. We have the power to either continue to sow the seeds for the next 9/11 or prevent it. We should stay out of that fight because to join it is to do so at our peril. It's a proven recipe for failure.

CUOMO: Lieutenant Colonel, Hillary is living in the past. We're already in it. We were in it. So it is not really productive to talk about staying out of it. How do we keep the U.S. insulated from what happens next?

REESE: Exactly what I believe is going on right now, the U.S. are the greatest force militarily to do synchronization and planning, but now we've brought this coalition together.

What we do is we, as I heard talk about last night is, we lead from behind, which most military people don't like to do, but I think it's a great technique here as we lead from behind, we synchronize, we help plan and let these other Arab countries really start taking the lead.

I think a great thing that came out last night possibly was is, the UAE had a female pilot, that's revolutionary for an Arab country, could be huge.

CUOMO: Hillary, a shake (inaudible), why?

LEVERETT: Because it's a rallying point. We constantly put out women without a head covering as some sort of proof that they've seen enlightenment. Instead that's going to be a rallying point for recruits to join ISIS who want to purify the Muslim world.

We are holding those things up as success, but it's just the opposite. It's a proven tool for recruitment. Tens of thousands of people are now joining ISIS to fight that type of western liberal imposition within the Muslim world. CUOMO: Hillary, we're putting up pictures now. She has a head scarf on so I don't know what the intentionality is, but let me ask you something, why are you so determined on not offending the ignorant? Why do we want to appease the ignorant and the extremists?

That's not a great strategy either, right? I mean, at what point do you cater to intelligence and modernity and let the Islam people fight for the soul of what their faith is?

LEVERETT: We should be letting the people of Islam fight for the soul of what faith is, but to impose a western secular largely Christian motivated ideological belief on a billion people, a billion people stretching across a huge swathe of the world is not only morally questionable, but it's not realistic.

We can't impose it with our F-16s. We can't impose it with our military. If people want to embrace liberal western democracy, that's great. But the idea that we can impose it at the end of a tank or an f-16 has failed in Republicans, failed in Libya, failed in Afghanistan. We have a track record here.

CUOMO: Lieutenant Colonel, give me a quick button on this. The president said the opposite in his speech, the only language these types of people understand is force. What is your last thought?

REESE: I completely agree with the president on this one. The bottom line is this is we've sat now for a couple years watching this come back in because we wanted to get back out. They asked for our help. We decided that it was time. I think it's a great move.

CUOMO: Lieutenant Colonel, Hillary Mann Leverett, thank you very much for joining us. We will continue this every step of the way on NEW DAY. Another facet of this conversation is the U.K., the U.S.'s biggest ally, where have they been so far in the war against ISIS?

Mostly silent, right? That could change with the U.K. voting on action. You know why they're doing that? That's what you're supposed to do. You know who else was supposed to do that? The United States. Why didn't Congress do it? You may know the answer but let's discuss it, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)