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New Day

Air Strikes Continue against ISIS; Interview with Sen. John McCain; Chicago Airport Delays Continue; How Big is the Terror Threat at Home?; Interview with Fmr. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge

Aired September 29, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And so the president says the U.S. continues to be the one to lead this effort, because America has the unique capacity to do so. So how do Americans feel like that? Well, this new CNN/ORC poll just released this morning shows that 73 percent approve of the air strikes. But about that same number also feels that it is likely the U.S. will end up having to send in ground troops and fewer, only 61 percent, feel confident that the U.S. will succeed in its goal of degrading and defeating ISIS

Some other interesting numbers in there show that more Americans now than a few weeks ago feel confident and approving of how things are going in this country and how President Obama is handling ISIS. But those numbers are still very low, less than half. And more than half now, 51 percent, say they don't trust President Obama as commander-in- chief. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Michelle, thank you very much.

Now we are joined by Republican Senator John McCain. Very good to be with you. Let me play you a little sound here from the "60 Minutes" interview and get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE KROFT, CBS NEWS: Are you saying this is not really a war?

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I'm saying is that we are assisting Iraq in a very real battle that's taking place on their soil, with their troops, but we are providing air support. And it is in our interests to do that because ISIL represents sort of a hybrid of not just a terrorist network but one with territorial ambitions and so some of the strategy and tactics of an army. This is not America against ISIL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Senator, are we at war?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: Of course we are. And it's not America against ISIL. Maybe he believes that. But this is ISIL against America. When Mr. Baghdadi left our prison after spending four years, he walked out and said I'll see you in America. All you have to do is watch what they're saying. And, again, I am just puzzled by the president, some of his statements, for example, he left behind a stable Iraq. We have predicted exactly what would happen.

CUOMO: Do you disagree also with the intelligence comments that he made?

MCCAIN: The intelligence comments -- intelligence people are pushing back hard. We predicted this and watched it. It was like watching a train wreck and warning every step of the way that this was happening because a residual force would have stabilized the situation and, of course, maybe had a break on Maliki. It is a direct result of our failure to leave a residual force behind. And when they say we couldn't, they are not telling the truth, because I was over there with Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman and we know it for a fact. So -- and this here idea that somehow we didn't know that this was happening, of course we knew it. We saw it happening.

CUOMO: Does the president deserve a little credit for being on your side, hold on a sec, when it comes to Syria, because he did say in an interview right after he was with us, hey, we need to bomb Syria. And as you know, Congress pushed back on him and said, no, you can't do it. Does he deserve some credit for identifying the threat? Yes, he was identifying Assad, but there are so many inner connections. Any credit?

MCCAIN: No, because two years ago when his national security team top level people, secretary of state, secretary of defense, and head of the CIA recommended arming the Free Syrian Army and he overhaul ruled them. If we had armed the Free Syrian Army then the situation on the ground would be dramatically different now.

And by the way, Chris, I want to mention, they want to train 5,000 Free Syrian Army in Saudi Arabia and send them back. But are we going to do anything about Bashar Assad's air attack? Dropping these horrible air bombs on them? Are we going to ask young men to train and equipped and we send them back to be slaughtered by Bashar Assad's air power? We need a no-fly zone.

CUOMO: What's the solution? What happens if he breaches it? It's his country.

MCCAIN: If he breaches it, we take on his air force.

CUOMO: So you want to take on Assad at the same time that you're taking on ISIS?

MCCAIN: Assad in my view has been responsible for 192,000 Syrians dead. There are 150,000 Syrians in his prison. He has used chemical weapons. He uses these barrel bombs. Yes. And he's directly supported by the Iranians who sent in 5,000 Hezbollah and changed the whole momentum on the battlefield. Of course, are you going to ask these young people, by the way, we're going to train and equip you, but you are going to fight against ISIS, but not against Assad? It's not only unworkable. It's immoral.

CUOMO: It's also impossible, right, now from the U.S. side, because you don't have any kind of authorization along those lines. It's not the president's fault. If this is a war, which the American people, as you know, by the way, don't think we are at war, but that's because there is so much confusing political messages we don't know what that poll number is about, but Congress would declare war. Congress would give the authorization. They won't even come home and vote on this. They won't even come back.

MCCAIN: I have said repeatedly, it's an act of cowardice on the part of Congress. They didn't want to vote before the election. So I totally agree with you. But the president can act. Even under the war powers act, he can at.

CUOMO: Against Assad?

MCCAIN: Absolutely, he can act against Assad. Why shouldn't he? If we're going to train people -- Bashar Assad is responsible for the deaths of nearly 200,000 people, millions of people who are refugees. It is -- he is one of the greatest war criminals there is. And for us to just sit by and say we are only going to fight ISIS and not help these people against the guy that's been slaughtering them when ISIS was really nothing to speak of --

CUOMO: What do you say to the American people? And 70 percent say we don't want any more war. We are war weary. You want to identify bad guys, Boko Haram still has all those girls that we cared about for a while. You can pick a lot of different situations.

MCCAIN: And I would have gone after Boko Haram, by the way, and I think a lot of the American people would have supported a special operations exercise where if we could rescue those young women. I don't know of anybody who wouldn't. But I think the big point is here comparing Boko Haram and what Bashar Assad has done is like -- there is no comparison. And the fact is that this guy is an enemy of the United States of America. This is a struggle.

CUOMO: Congress told Obama, the president, not to do it.

MCCAIN: He never asked for it. He never came and asked for it. He probably wouldn't have gotten it. But he said he was going to strike Syria.

CUOMO: Right.

MCCAIN: And without Congress, and then decided he was going to go to Congress. And he never asked, even. But so, is it fair.

CUOMO: That doesn't leave much of a benefit of a doubt to Congress. They knew, you guys knew that he wanted to bomb Syria. You could have came together. Declaring war is your job, not his.

MCCAIN: He has to come to Congress to ask for it to start with. First of all he said he was going to bomb without us, and that was a signal he sent through the Middle East, one reason we have so little credibility now. And then he decided he was going to come to Congress and saw he didn't have the votes. I would have loved to have been on record for a vote on that. I would have been very happy about that.

CUOMO: A lot of that -- MCCAIN: Air power alone does not win wars. I was in one when they

tried that. So air power alone, we're going to have to have boots on the ground if we're really going to succeed.

CUOMO: Who?

MCCAIN: We. In other words --

CUOMO: U.S. boots?

MCCAIN: There's U.S. boots on the ground right now in Iraq.

CUOMO: But fighting? They're supposed to be advising.

MCCAIN: Not fighting, but to be there in advisory. ISIS has wiped out the boundary between Iraq and Syria. What is the difference between it now? They have a caliphate larger than the size of the state of Indiana. So for us to say, well, and our British friends, we'll bomb them in Iraq but not in Syria. Why? There is no boundary anymore. ISIS goes back and forth between. In fact now they will go into the populated areas.

And you just, you can take out buildings with air power without people identifying those targets and directing it. But you are not going to be able to win by just bombing from the air and I think any military expert will tell you that.

CUOMO: A big part of the problem right now, it sounds like a change, but it's connected. A big part of the problem politically is the connection between the president and the legislature, Congress, being on the same page. Bringing it back home just for a couple days does matter to the people's agenda. We are now looking for an attorney general. The expectation is you will block. Whatever he puts up you will block. You won't get an attorney general.

MCCAIN: I don't think that's necessarily true. I would be glad to consider. I believe that elections have consequences, I know that very well. And I don't think that we would just block necessarily anybody.

CUOMO: That's what's been happening to the president to be honest, right?

MCCAIN: Let's, but remember Harry Reid blew up the Senate, so they only need 51 votes. So they have been getting everybody of theirs through the United States --

CUOMO: Do you think that will change if the Republicans take control?

MCCAIN: Absolutely, because what they've done is they've made the United States Senate, they've changed it from the unique role that a minority can play in the political process by making it just 51 votes.

But going back to, if the president explained to the American people what's at stake here and what's happening, and already Americans are now supporting airstrikes, according to -- I think the American people would be supportive if they can see a concrete plan and, as we used to say, a light at the end of the tunnel.

But if it's just going to be some more airstrikes and it's going to drag out and drag out and drag out, then over time the American people will not support it, Chris.

And by the way, we were war weary after World War II and we went to Korea. We were war wary at a lot of other times. But if the American people are told what's at stake here, and that is our intelligence people say that ISIS is a direct threat to the United States of America, then I think they will support the president.

CUOMO: We need to have you back, senator. Hopefully you'll be in D.C. because the next part of this conversation is, well, the American people have been told this isn't their war. This is about an existential threat to the Middle East. This is an Arab war. They are supposed to fight, we're supposed to help. So switching the definition of we're supposed to do will take time and convincing because the American people aren't hearing it right now. But Senator, thank you for being a strong voice on this, and hopefully you will be back and continue the conversation.

MCCAIN: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, let's go over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris, thanks so much. We want to turn to Chicago now. The FAA there now says it's going to take weeks to get the city's fire-damaged air traffic control center back online. More than 3,600 flights have been delayed or even canceled at O'Hare and at Midway since Friday. Lines are snaking through those airports after an air traffic employee apparently set the fire before trying to commit suicide.

Ted Rowlands is following the very latest for us from O'Hare to give us an idea of how traffic is flowing and maybe a little bit more about perhaps the mental state of this person before this all came to be.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Michaela. Well, first, let's get to the traffic. Things are still slow going. If you are traveling, call ahead, because 60 percent of the planes leaving O'Hare that -- O'Hare is only moving at a 60 percent clip of what they were normally be moving at, Midway airport about 75. And of course when there are problems at a major airport in this country, there are problems across the country.

Basically, the FAA has to rebuild a communications center outside of Chicago from the ground up. Some equipment came in last night. They are working 24/7 to try to get that up. But they say it may not be fully operational for another two weeks. So other centers are chipping in to help out there.

As for the person accused of doing this, 36-year-old Dan Howard, he remains hospitalized. Apparently according to friends and the affidavit filed in federal court, he showed up to work where he had security clearance. He worked inside there transmission center. He showed up with gasoline in a suitcase. He posted on Facebook he was going to kill himself and take out the communications center before he did it. He did survive his self-inflicted wounds. He is still hospitalized.

Michaela, the bottom line, if you are traveling today or this week, call ahead, because this is still a problem.

PEREIRA: The investigation continues. And of course, you tell us about the traveled nightmares there. I was in Calgary over the weekend, and even those flights all the way in western Canada were affected. This has a trickle down. Ripple effect?

CUOMO: Trickle down.

PEREIRA: Either way.

CUOMO: It's all bad right now.

PEREIRA: All bad. A lot of headlines going on, obviously. Christine Romans is taking care of that for us.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning you two. Let's go to Hong Kong first where tens of thousands of protesters remain on the street of the financial hub there. Riot police have pulled back from the demonstrations and are urging people to leave. The demonstrators have shown no signs of letting up. They are accusing police of heavy- handed tactics. Student-led demonstration over frustrations with Beijing's attempts to interfere with local elections.

Murder charges are expected to be filed this morning against a man accused of beheading a female co-worker in Moore, Oklahoma. Police say 30-year-old Alton Nolan recently converted to Islam and was trying to convince his colleagues to do the same before he was fired at his job at a food processing plant. He allegedly returned the next day, killed his co-worker before he was shot by an armed manager at the plant.

And American doctor exposed to the Ebola virus in Sierra Leone is back in the U.S. This unidentified patient is now in isolation at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. That's where officials are conducting one of the first clinical trials of an experimental Ebola vaccine. Now, the virus has now officially killed more than 3,000 people in West Africa. The World Health Organization warns the number is vastly underestimated.

Oscar winner George Clooney is a bachelor no more. He and human rights lawyer Amal Alamuddin exchanged wedding vows in an intimate ceremony at a posh Venice motel Saturday. Stars Bill Murray, Matt Damon, Bono, and others were in Italy for the "I dos." Much of the ceremony shrouded in mystery because hotel staff had to sign non- disclosure agreements. It took me so long to get back from that wedding. I can't believe I made it here in that time.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Enjoy. Enjoy. A lot of serious news to talk to you about as well. This beheading, let's get back to this in Oklahoma because you have that. You have this increased terrorist chatter. The question is obvious. Could this ISIS style terror actually hit home in the U.S.? We're going to speak with former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge about how the nation can protect itself.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: All right, good to have you back with us here on NEW DAY. The threat an ISIS attack from overseas, no doubt very real. But just how big is the threat here at home? Concerns are mounting of lone wolf attacks and foreign fighters sneaking back into the country to carry out such attacks here. According to a new CNN/ORC poll, almost half of Americans believe a terror attack is more likely now that we have begun air strikes against ISIS.

Joining me now from Atlanta this morning, Tom Ridge, the former homeland security secretary and of course the former government of Pennsylvania. Secretary Ridge, thank you so much for joining me this morning.

TOM RIDGE, FORMER HOEMLAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Michaela, nice to join you and hello, Chris. Good to join you.

PEREIRA: Well, I'll pass on your hellos to Chris as well in a moment. Thanks so much. So I want to talk about this poll. It's interesting to see that almost 50 percent of Americans believe that a terrorist attack is more likely now that air strikes have begun against ISIS. How concerned are you, sir, that Americans are at risk on our soil?

RIDGE: Well, first of all, there may be a correlation there, but let's face it, ISIS declared war on us when they beheaded the first American and they declared on the Western world as a series of beheadings. And secondly, al Qaeda and the Khorasan group clearly indicated, post-9-11, that America is in the crosshairs. So the concern is, today, is probably even greater than it was right after 9- 11 because these terrorist groups have metastasized; there are more of them.

And frankly one of the things they discovered after 9-11, with a very few people and very few dollars, they can wreak havoc and terror. And you said in the introduction, very correctly, the lone wolf or the former ISIS soldier working their way back in to either Western Europe or the United States is a real problem. And we just have to accept it as is.

PEREIRA: Well, and we look at this horrifying situation in Oklahoma. This young man beheading this woman, a colleague at a plant where he had just been let go from. And, again, we don't know that he was linked -- they're obviously investigating if there was any link or tie to ISIS -- but he clearly, there was some sort of inspiration. That is effectively terrorism in its own right.

RIDGE: Well, I do think we need to learn a little more about this individual, whether he is an ideologue or somebody with severe mental health problems who latched on to that mindset and used it as a rationale for his horrific behavior. But, at the end of the day, I think one of the broader challenges we

have, given the fact that the aperture of terrorism attacks has opened much, much wider over the past couple of years, is that in order for us to defend ourselves as effectively as we possibly can, now is the time for the alphabet agencies, for the FBI and everybody else, to start sharing more information with the state and locals. You cannot secure this country from inside the Beltway.

There's two prongs. Offense we're doing overseas. Defense you play here. But we got to make sure that the federal government, when it gets reliable information, shares it timely, in a timely way, with the state and local partners in law enforcement.

PEREIRA: Most of us maybe only learned of this al Qaeda affiliate, Khorasan, for the first time last week. This administration said that they are concerned that they're plotting an imminent threat against U.S. or -- the U.S. or Europe. They then later clarified it as an imminent threat with no known target.

I'm curious, given the fact that you have your history with Homeland Security, how serious of a threat do you believe they pose or will pose?

RIDGE: Well, I think any al Qaeda-related organization is potentially a threat. Whether or not they have the capability to deliver on that promised threat remains to be seen. But I think we have to be very realistic about this. Not breathless about this. This is a permanent condition of the 21st Century world. We are seeing it play out, unfortunately, across too many instances and too many countries.

And that is why I go back to the original premise that I shared with you a few moments ago. Now it is more important than ever before that we get away from the Cold War mentality when the federal government said we'll share information when we think you need to know it. We need to know it now. And I think that's one of the real challenges for this and future administrations, to have the federal government sharing more information with the folks at the local level so they can help defend their own families and their own communities. Because you can't do it from inside Washington, D.C.

PEREIRA: I want to actually -- I appreciate your comment about realistic and not breathless. The importance of language here is going to segue to my next question here. I know that you have been very blunt and open about declaring this a war with ISIS, but we know the president who was asked this just the other night, I want to play this out. I want to get your reaction. This is how the president answered the question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE KROFT, CBS NEWS: Are you saying that this is not really a war?

OBAMA: What I'm saying is that we are assisting Iraq in a very real battle that's taking place on their soil with their troops. But we are providing air support. And it is in our interest to do that because ISIL represents sort of a hybrid of not just a terrorist network but one with territorial ambitions, and some of the strategy and tactics of an army. This is not an America against ISIL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Secretary, how do you respond?

RIDGE: Well, I -- listen, the president is a very able man. He uses words very carefully. I think it's just too nuanced to be viewed by America as accurate. ISIS made the first move. They beheaded two Americans. They weren't beheaded in the United States, but they declared war. Why were these individuals beheaded? Because they were Americans. So the president will continue to play word games, but the men and women overseas fighting these terrorists, whether they're in Syria, Iraq, or elsewhere, they are at war. And we just ought to accept that and forget the word games that we're playing and accept that reality.

PEREIRA: We'll leave it there. Former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge joining us from Atlanta this morning. Thank you so much, sir.

RIDGE: Michaela, thank you very much.

PEREIRA: All right, what's inside the mind of an ISIS fighter? We are going to find out and take a look in a rare exclusive interview with two men who have fought with the terror group.

And you can start to feel the heat. Just five weeks until the midterm elections. Key races are heating up in the playing states. John King has all of this and more INSIDE POLITICS right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Let's get to Christine Romans. You have everything that people need to be aware of as they start their new days.

ROMANS: A NEW DAY and a new week, everybody. Welcome back. Let's take a look at your headlines.

The United States underestimated ISIS and overestimated the ability of the Iraqi army to fight the extremist group. That admission from President Obama in an interview with CBS. He says the chaos of the Syrian civil war allowed ISIS to go underground and get stronger.

Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu promising to fight back against what he calls Palestinian lies when he addresses the U.N. General Assembly today. Netanyahu fuming over charges leveled by Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas Friday when Abbas told the General Assembly that Israel had committed war crimes and genocide during the latest Gaza conflict. The U.S. denounced Abbas's comments as counterproductive.

Volunteers will resume their search today for a realtor who mysteriously vanished after showing a home in Arkansas. Beverly Carter went missing Thursday. Her car was still parked outside that house she was showing when her husband reported her missing. Police have issued an arrest warrant for 33-year-old Aaron Lewis in connection with Carter's disappearance but they haven't said how the two are linked.

Some terrifying video out of the Netherlands, and a warning to you this morning. This is disturbing, what we are about to show you. A deadly accident as a monster truck plows into onlookers. It happened after the truck drove over a row of parked cars and could not stop. Three people are dead. More than a dozen other are hurt. Organizers believe the truck's gas pedal may have gotten stuck, or the brakes failed. Clearly terrifying video oust of the Netherlands.

PEREIRA: Oh my goodness, they were so close to the action there. How horrifying.

CUOMO: It's terrible.

All right. It is time for INSIDE POLITICS on NEW DAY with John King. John, I thought I heard tell that you were going to be with us. I was all excited.

PEREIRA: No.

CUOMO: Now you're just in a box.

PEREIRA: Couldn't take the heat, could you, fella?

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Just in a box in D.C. I just got afraid of New York. I couldn't take the heat, you're exactly right.

Chris, Michaela, Christine, good morning to you. Let's go INSIDE POLITICS. Five weeks to Election Day. With me to share their reporting and their insights this morning, Molly Ball of the Atlantic, Jackie Kucinich at "The Washington Post".

Let's start with our new brand-new CNN/ORC poll numbers, looking at the president.