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New Day

American Teens Caught Trying to Join ISIS; Blind Architect; Monica Lewinsky Returns to the Spotlight

Aired October 22, 2014 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: It's interesting for me to talk to you because not only were you under cover, but you were actually going along a path as a young Muslim youth in Canada that was leading to extremism. So you can really relate to the mindset of these young people.

MUBIN SHAIKH, FORMER JIHADIST: Yes, I can. I did - I did come right to the edge, but thankfully I didn't go over it. So --

PEREIRA: Why? Why didn't you? What happened?

SHAIKH: Well, you know, for different people there are - to individualist, they're very individualized pathways. So, for me, I think I had some support mechanisms around me, parents, friends, religious elders who encouraged me to study the faith before, you know, going off to fight in some fight that I really didn't know about.

PEREIRA: So let's talk about these young people and it seems they're getting younger and younger. We hear, Mubin, that these girls from Colorado were 15, 16, 17 years old, and I think that's really shocking to people. Talk about what it is that is being tapped into by extremists that can entice them. Help us understand that.

SHAIKH: It really is identity is the core theme, I think, that we see more often than other themes. You know, there's also adventure involved. And let's face it, with young men and women, there's also sex involved. I mean you have teenage girls who want to go and marry these warrior bad boys and these bad boys themselves are trying to live up to a caricature that they've created for themselves. So, you know, we're the heroes, we're the vanguards of the faith. They give themselves the names of, you know, the disciples of the prophet, peace be upon him, and they try to live that character role. And when you're sitting at home and you're watching these videos over and over and over, this is -- when we talk about self-radicalization, this is what's happening. You reinforce to yourself this idea that you can participate in something far greater than your mundane existence at home.

PEREIRA: Well, and, look, I think all of us can relate to that - you know, that rebellion, that seeking of identity when we were teens. We all did it one way or the other. But, look, we might have run away from home or pierced an ear or something. This is going a lot further. Help us understand, could it potentially be - like there is some sort of disconnect? You know, oftentimes, within a church - a congregation, there's a disconnect between the older elders and the youth who are looking for that identity. Are they -- is that something else that could be at play here?

SHAIKH: Yes, certainly. When you're dealing with first, second, even third generation individuals from various ethnic backgrounds, there are still problems of a culturation and an integration. Who am I supposed to be? You know, to be an American, to be a Canadian, to be a Brit, does that take away from my Islam and my Muslimness? And this is exactly what extremist mentality seeks to encourage, that there's only one way and it's this way and it has to be in separation from the west.

PEREIRA: Well, look, and we know that the message that ISIS is pushing is reaching its targets. We saw this 17-year-old in Australia. There's video of him allegedly alongside ISIS fighters. We see this situation in Canada of two Canadian soldiers getting mowed down, one of them killed, by somebody who had ideology that he had been self-radicalized and put into action. It is a fine line. It really is a fine line when somebody is radicalized and then puts in to action. Maybe you can help us understand how fine that line is because, my friend, you dodged it.

SHAIKH: Yes, indeed, it is a very fine line. The problem is, is that most individuals who are radicalized will never act out violently and the small few that do, it's very difficult to understand how it is that, let's say, two, three, four, five people who come from the same backgrounds, why is it that four will not act and one will act? A lot of times you will see that there are social issues that they're facing in their life. So, for example, in the case of the terrorist attack on Canadian forces soldier and, of course, the deceased one, Officer Vinson (ph), you know, he -- his business was will failing, things weren't working out. You know, just separated from his - I guess his wife or his girlfriend, whatever it was.

PEREIRA: So there are other troubles.

SHAIKH: Yes, there were other troubles that exacerbate.

PEREIRA: Right.

SHAIKH: And that's the thing, a lot of people have the same problems, but they don't go and kill people.

PEREIRA: Right. Right. So, moving, what do we do? I think there's so many of us, communities, neighborhoods, mosques are trying to figure out desperately, what do we do to reach those kids who are so vulnerable.

SHAIKH: Look, it will take a holistic effort. It can't be just done by coercive government approaches. It must also be done by bottom-up grass roots approaches. So it's very good that the parents contacted the police. That really is the best option for parents to do. And I encourage parents that, you know, I mean, it's better that your kid get arrested or at least talked to than, you know, be used as a sex slave, which is what happens with a lot of these girls.

PEREIRA: Or - or be killed. SHAIKH: So they need to be aware - yes, or be killed. They need to be made aware of the situation of other girls who have gone and what their situation is now. So a lot of them are living in a fantasy world and just don't understand what awaits them on the other side.

PEREIRA: Mubin Shaikh, I am glad and I am thankful to whoever was able to get to you and that you're here to fight a different kind of battle, one that is very important that all of us need to work together on do. Mubin Shaikh joining us from Toronto, Canada. Thank you so very much.

SHAIKH: Thank you.

PEREIRA: Alisyn. Chris.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Always fascinating to hear from him, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Yes, really.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Thanks so much.

So there's reaction now pouring in after Monica Lewinsky has opened up about her affair with the president and what it cost her in her life. So why is she speaking out now? We'll examine that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: All right, here we go with the five things you need to know for your new day.

At number one, and breaking news, American Jeffrey Fowle is back in America after his release by North Korea after (ph) five months of detention. And a beautiful and emotional reunion this morning with his family after landing at an air force base in Ohio.

All air passengers traveling to the U.S. from Ebola affected countries in West Africa will now be required to land at one of five U.S. airports set up for enhanced Ebola screening, as America's new Ebola so-called czar, Ron Klain, starts his new job.

Three teenage girls apparently bound for Syria in order to join ISIS are now back in the Denver area. Investigators say they are combing through the girls' online communications to try and piece together just why they ran away.

"The Washington Post" is honoring the great Ben Bradlee with the headline, "an editor of legendary impact." Bradlee famously led the paper's Watergate coverage. He died Tuesday at the age of 93.

The Giants strike first in the World Series winning the opener against the Royals 7-1. Behind their ace, Madison Bumgarner gained two. Tonight (ph) in Kansas City.

We do update those five things to know, so be sure to go on newdaycnn.com for the latest. Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you very much.

We have this week's "Human Factor" for you. When architect Chris Downey lost his sight, he redesigned his career and reinvented himself. CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta has his story for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After building a successful career as an architect, 40-year-old Chris Downey was diagnosed with a brain tumor.

CHRIS DOWNEY, BLIND ARCHITECT: On a Friday, I was at work. On Saturday, I was out riding my bike. On Monday, I went in for surgery. On Wednesday, I was blind.

GUPTA: In fact, before doctors could tell him he was officially blind, a social worker had already stopped by.

DOWNEY: She noticed I was an architect and said, well, we can talk about career alternatives. And I was just like shocked. So I immediately started thinking about the work that I do and how much of it was sort of immediately possible.

GUPTA: A can-do attitude, coupled with some new tools, including a special embossing printer and wax sticks has helped Downey become one of the world's few blind architects with a special sense for designing for the disabled.

DOWNEY: If I'm doing a project for people with disabilities, it's about ability. It's about keeping everybody moving. It's an enabling as many people to function to their fullest capacity possible.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: I love the "Human Factors."

CAMEROTA: I do, too.

CUOMO: I do. And I love the way Sanjay does it.

CAMEROTA: Inspirational.

CUOMO: The choices they make. It really makes you think about who's in the world around you.

CAMEROTA: We love him.

CUOMO: Sanjay Gupta?

CAMEROTA: Yes. CUOMO: I love all things Sanjay Gupta.

CAMEROTA: I know you do.

CUOMO: I'll tell you what, he wouldn't be getting the criticism that we're seeing right now about Monica Lewinsky. Boy, have you heard about this? She opens up. She wrote the big "Vanity Fair" thing. Of course she did the big interview with Barbara Walters. It's not like we don't know her story. But now she's trying to reinvent herself and she's talking about what it did to her, what this affair and all of the media attention and the aftermath did to her. So is this the right time? Is she doing it the right way? How do people feel about this? We're going to tell you what's out there and have experts weighing in right ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Monica Lewinsky is back in the spotlight, telling an audience in Philadelphia about her affair with President Bill Clinton. She also spoke about the humiliation that she suffered as a result. She says she wants to raise awareness about cyber bullying, but since joining Twitter on Monday, she has been subjected to a slew of nasty and obscene comments.

CUOMO: Wow, I'm shocked. Let's bring in CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Ana Navarro and victims rights attorney Gloria Allred. Thank you for being with us this morning. Please, raise your hand if you're surprised that Monica Lewinsky is getting a lot of hate thrown her way for coming out and having this conversation. Hands down, as assumed. Ana, you say you're sick and tired of Monica Lewinsky. Why, when she's finally being honest and owning her own reality?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I'm not sick and tired of Monica Lewinsky, I'm sick and tired of talking about Monica Lewinsky, frankly, because it feels like we're going back in time. I almost feel like I have to put my time travel suit and we're going back to the future. I also think there's a political angle, and, you know, it's becomes more relevant because everybody presumes Hillary Clinton will be running, and it brings back that entire chapter of the Clinton White House and those sordid years. I think, for a lot of people, it seems like Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton have moved on, and I think a lot of us wish that, you know, Monica would move on.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, I'll tell you what - -

NAVARRO: At the same time, she has, you know, she has all her prerogative to tell her story and say what she wants, so if that's what she's chosen to do, it's her right to do so.

CAMEROTA: And that's why she says, Gloria, that she's doing it. I mean, she says that this is her first public speech ever, I guess Barbara Walters doesn't count, but her first speech in front of a big audience when she was at the Forbes conference in Philadelphia. Doesn't everybody have the right to own their own story and to tell their own story? Let me play for you what she says about her story. (BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

MONICA LEWINSKY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE INTERN: The problem is that I believe in the power of story, in the power of stories to inspire, comfort, educate and change things for the better. I believe my story can help.

(END VIDEOCLIP_

CAMEROTA: Gloria, won't her story help other people who have felt public humiliation or shame?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, it definitely is a legitimate issue to talk about cyber bullying, and she received a lot of criticism. But frankly, when Ana, who has a lot of experience with Republicans and often sides with them, says that she's tired of her, it reminds me of the saying me thinks the lady protest too much, because I think that a lot of Republicans are quite aware that Hillary may very well wage a battle for the nomination in the upcoming presidential primary, and they would like to bring back the whole affair with Monica and President Clinton. And that, of course, brings Hillary right back into it.

But they may regret what they wish for, because, in fact, a lot of people may feel a lot more sympathy for Hillary, the wife who had to put up with this affair, and also was humiliated by it. And so, it may end up helping Hillary, although a lot of people probably do wish that they didn't have to even think about Monica at this point.

NAVARRO: Gloria, let me tell you something. I don't go from Republican talking points. I say, you know, anybody who watches me knows that I say what I feel, and you're making some suggestions here. You're basically, you know, suggesting that this is a Republican conspiracy theory. We've heard that vast right-wing conspiracy thing before. That's ridiculous, what evidence do you have for that? I mean, that's just crazy.

I don't think anybody wants to bring this back and I don't think, frankly, Monica Lewinsky would lend herself to that. She's been quiet all this time, I think she's realized that she couldn't move past it and she's decided to embrace it. Look, I don't know. You don't know what's in her head. I don't know what's in her head, but to say without any evidence, to suggest that this is a Republican conspiracy is frankly crazy.

CAMEROTA: Gloria, is that what you're saying?

ALLRED: I haven't used the word conspiracy.

NAVARRO: No, you're a lot more subtle than that.

ALLRED: You know what annoys me most? But, you know, Ana, let me- - Ana, give me the courtesy of letting me respond.

What bothers me most about this, is the fact that, you know, it is a very big distraction from the really important issues, from the economy, from the issue of Ebola and I wasn't thrilled that she used the patient zero in her remarks, in her speech, which reminds everybody about Ebola and when we should be talking about Ebola, and we shouldn't be talking about Monica Lewinsky.

CUOMO: Yes, but why does one have to be exclusionary of the other?

ALLRED: We should (inaudible) of reproductive rights, and war, and all of those other really significant issues?

CUOMO: Gloria.

ALLRED: And who is going to be appointed to the Supreme Court?

CUOMO: There are plenty of opportunities for issues to be discussed, and as you know, nobody avoids them more than the politicians, Gloria, so it's not about Monica Lewinsky altering what the debate should be. It's just about her speaking her own truth.

And, Ana, I'll give you a little bit of proof. I don't believe it's a right-wing conspiracy, and I think it's ironic that those were words that were put in Hillary Clinton's mouth, obviously. But, Rand Paul brought up Bill Clinton's past as a philanderer, and, you know, he did make this somewhat relevant. I don't think Gloria was referencing that, but, you know, there is going to be some political fodder to this.

My feeling is why does Monica have to keep taking the heat for what happened all these years later?

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: If it happened today, Ana, you wouldn't be blaming the woman, I promise you that.

NAVARRO: No, I cannot, let me -- First of all, you know, we shouldn't be blaming anybody. That, to me, that blame game is well over. Let me remind you that Rand Paul who, as you know, Chris, I'm not the biggest advocate of, and Rand Paul's wife was responding to a specific question about the Monica-Bill issue that was posed to her by a "Vogue Magazine" interviewer, and then Rand Paul backed up his wife. I'm not sure, if you get asked if you're going to back up your wife on national TV whether you do or not, but if you have to go back home to Christina, I suggest you think about it strongly.

CAMEROTA: But Gloria, to Chris' point - -

ALLRED: Monica was a victim.

CAMEROTA: Okay.

ALLRED: Monica was a victim. She wasn't sexually harassed because what happened was welcome, and therefore it wasn't sexual harassment, because she says she was in love and she wanted the relationship.

CAMEROTA: So then why is she a victim if she wanted this and she pursued him. ALLRED: Well, because, you know, even though she disclosed it quite a

bit to her friend, who then disclosed it to the world, I mean, she took a lot of heat over it. Having said that, it was 16 years ago, and she does want to control her own narrative now, as she says. She wants to have a better ending to it. Her better ending is to identify with the cause cyber bullying, but the real question is, doing it now, at a time that is so political, is this really going to help her? Is this really going to hurt her?

I mean, it will help her to get speaking engagements and put her out front. Maybe that's what she wants. I don't know what her motives are, I don't know what her agenda is, but she better be ready for a lot of flack, and a lot of heat, and a lot of cyber bullying. That's what she's getting, and that's what she will continue to get.

CAMEROTA: Maybe Twitter wasn't the best choice. I mean Twitter - -

CUOMO: I was worried for her - -

CAMEROTA: I am, too.

CUOMO: - - when I heard she was on Twitter. It is one of the meanest places. I'd rather jump into a cage full of pit bulls.

CAMEROTA: Me, too. It is a well of vitriol. Maybe she didn't know that, but she did tweet later, the day after she joined, she tweeted #gratitude. So, she also was getting positive feedback for her speech, so that's a good sign.

CUOMO: I heard from someone in the room that she killed it, that people were crying, that they felt that, you know, this had really meant something to them. And I think she has to take something away from that. I think the big decision is, and Ana you weigh in on this. When does she have to say I don't talk about that anymore, I am a cyber bullying advocate? I'm not going to talk about that anymore and what it meant to me. We're done with that. Doesn't she have to do that to truly move on?

NAVARRO: Frankly, Chris, I think she has to decide whether she truly wants to move on, and it's going to be her decision and nobody else's. Nobody else can control it. I also think that if part of this is, you know, her having some effect, she's going to be able to determine. You know, this is a supply, a demand economy. On-demand economy.

If she doesn't get reception for that, if she doesn't get ears that want to listen, then, you know, at that point she knows that those 15 minutes are over. But I think, you know, she's going to play this out and, frankly, everybody else is making money on speeches and, you know, going off and doing this as an industry.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, and she deserves to make money. She's talked about how she actually hasn't been able to be employed during these years because, you know, she has been so sort of tarnished by this. Gloria, very quickly. You know how to turn around people's images after a public humiliation. What should Monica Lewinsky do now? ALLRED: Well, I mean, I really would have to sit down with her and

find out what her motives are, and also what her agenda is, what her goals are. The main point would be what is she trying to accomplish, and is what she's doing going to help her to accomplish her goal? If it's, you know, to get back into the public arena, clearly she can do that, she has done that, she will continue to do that.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

ALLRED: Will she profit from that? Can she make a living from that? We'll have to see, and it's going to be, is it going to be costly to her as well as to benefit her? Is she willing to bear the cost and the suffering that's going to go along with the public attacks?

CAMEROTA: Right. Gloria Allred, Ana Navarro, thanks so much for debating this with us.

ALLRED: Thank you.

CUOMO: Great analysis by Gloria. Ana put me in trouble there with my wife now, suggesting that maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't take her back in public. I'm going to get heat just for that. Ana, you better email me so that I can forward it on to Christina, clear me up.

CAMEROTA: You need your permission slip.

CUOMO: Alright, we also want to talk to you this morning about a suspected serial killer.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CUOMO (voice-over): Expected in court about an hour from now. So far, this man on your screen has been connected to at least seven victims in Indiana. The question is, are there more? Stay with us for that.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Several stories developing right now.