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New Day

Gunman Goes on Shooting Rampage in Ottawa, Canada; U.S. Security Forces Preparedness for Terrorist Attacks Assessed; Partial Solar Eclipse Tonight; Protests Erupt in Ferguson Over Leaked Witness Reports

Aired October 23, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHEN HARPER, PRIME MINISTER, CANADA: We will not be intimidated. Canada will never be intimidated.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Prime Minister Stephen Harper promising justice after what he calls, a terrorist act on Canada's Capitol.

9:52 a.m. --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, there's a shooter on the loose.

CUOMO: Shots ring out at the national war memorial in Ottawa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Out of the way! Move, move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the sudden I just hear a shot, and, just, pow.

CUOMO: The shooter, 32-year-old Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, a Muslim convert. But officials say he had a troubled past and was planning to fight overseas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy came from the side and came out with a rifle and shot at the man, and then the guy went falling down.

CUOMO: The suspect fatally shooting Canadian Corporal Nathan Cirillo. The 24-year-old father was one of two soldiers standing guard.

Then around 10:00 a.m. the shooter hijacked this car and continued his rampage just a few hundred yards away. Entering through doors meant for officials, he starts firing inside Canada's parliament building.

(GUNSHOTS)

JOHN MCKAY, CANADIAN PARLIAMENT: I was literally taking off my coat, going into the caucus room and, we heard this boom-boom-boom.

CUOMO: Police scrambling to protect Canada's top officials, rushing them outside to safety. Some lawmakers in the building huddle in a caucus room piling up chairs against the door to barricade themselves in as police exchange a barrage of bullets, with the shooter. JOHN WINGROVE, REPORTER, "THE GLOBE AND MAIL": We are sort of

flanking down the hallway. It looked like the guy popped out or they saw him. They fired a lot, a tremendous amount of bullets fired.

CUOMO: Amid the chaos, parliament Sergeant at Arms Kevin Vickers fires the fatal shot, but not before three others are injured. Vickers killing the suspect near the parliamentary library, fellow officers calling him a hero.

JOHN VICKERS, SERGEANT-AT-ARMS, VICKERS BROTHER: When you hear those gunshots and know that your brother was in the middle of all of that, it was a very surreal experience and horror.

CUOMO: This is the second time this week Canada waking up to headlines of terror. On Monday Canadian authorities say a radicalized Islamist hit and killed a Canadian soldier with his car.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I had a chance to talk with Prime Minister Harper.

CUOMO: President Obama says we have to remain vigilant.

OBAMA: When it comes to dealing with terrorist activity, that Canada and the United States has to be entirely in sync. Not only is Canada one of our closest allies in the world, but there are our neighbors and our friends.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right so as we understand that this event yesterday was random and that this man was just a deranged individual and not seen as part of some bigger plot, it is also not something to be dismissed because it could very well be the newest threat both to Canada and the U.S.

To discuss, we have David Harris, former chief of strategic planning for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. And he's also the director of the international intelligence program for INSIGNIS. And back with us, I'm very happy to have Michel Juneau-Katsuya. He's a former Canadian counterterrorism official. He's a former senior officer with the Canadian Intelligence Service, always important to get the titles right, especially when you're trying to suggest the expertise that's needed in a situation like in.

DAVID E. HARRIS, FORMER CHIEF OF STRATEGIC PLANNING, CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE: Let me just clarify. I was with CSIS only 1988 to 90. I've had 30 years in intelligence affairs, so I'm very interested in this, of course.

CUOMO: Good, and I am in your perspective. So let's start with you, David. It is easy to dismiss this guy from yesterday. I don't say his name because I don't think he deserves the respect. He had a past that was troubled. He was deranged. He had trouble at his mosque. He was fascinated with the wrong parts of the culture of his faith. But to dismiss this as the new reality, David, that would be a mistake, yes? HARRIS: A terrible mistake. There are indeed some questions about

whether or not the individual may have had a connection to the individual in Quebec who was responsible for vehicular homicide, killing a Canadian soldier, wounding another.

There are also some questions with respect to the fellow in Montreal and the mosque he attended. It is alleged by some who are very expert in these things that that mosque may have had him itself a guest speaker who was given to prescribing things like amputations and beheadings. So this could open a few fields of exploration vis-a-vis radicalism in this country, a problem that many moderate Muslims have long been concerned about.

CUOMO: Even a man, Michel, who clearly wasn't in his right mind, he was able to absorb a very important concept. He started at the National War Memorial. On that memorial you have dates of service of World War I, World War II, Korea, and Afghanistan, from about 2000 to 2013. It is near the unmarked grave of the unknown soldier. He knew that in jihad to kill military matters and that brings glory. So he knew enough to do that.

MICHEL JUNEAU-KATSUYA, FORMER SENIOR OFFICER, CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE SERVICE: Yes, indeed. And basically he was following to a certain extent the path that the previous guy has done earlier this week as well, but also which was the call, received a month ago from the ISIS itself that was sort of obligating, publishing worldwide this sort of international jihad.

What is striking also when we look at the profile is two things. The recent attack and the people that we've been talking about for the last year or more are all converted. They were not born Muslim. They were not coming if a family originating from the Middle East or Afghanistan. They were blue-eyed, blonde-haired people who suddenly sort of disenfranchised decided to sort of --

CUOMO: Converting for all the wrong reasons.

JUNEAU-KATSUYA: Converted for all the wrong reasons, picked up the element of radicalism and went on to do their carnage.

CUOMO: And you match the conversion and that zealousness with a disabled person right, and I mean that in that he had a history of addiction and criminal history.

HARRIS: I think we've got to more straight forward that this. The convert issues and element is a significant one, perhaps 20-30 percent. But it is by a long shot not the only issue. And we have now seen a succession of individuals, Canadians, some of them converts but many born to the faith as well. And this is something that some of those of us who work closely with the Canadian-Muslim community are trying to deal with. But it requires that we look full face at the challenge that we do face.

CUOMO: What is the challenge?

HARRIS: Some of it has to do with the interpretation of doctrine. We have references, chapter four and 33 in the Koran relating to, for example, sex slavery, interpretation of jihad, and so on. And we need imams to come out very directly but very specifically to deal with those passages.

(AUDIO GAP)

HARRIS: We need to be very specific in this regard or we will then find those people who are in converts and others inclined to this sort of thing.

CUOMO: All right, are you guys able to hear us and see us right now? All right, good. Yes. We're all good. Live TV you always have to work on communications.

David, just to pick up on your point with Michel, people are looking at this and saying, it could have been so much worse. Thank God for that sergeant at arms and the people who fired back. Are we missing the point here? Yes, none of us want to see mass killings, it's a horrible nightmare. But one at a time, two at a time by people who don't have to be well-organized, who don't have to be assets of any organization, who can pick up some twisted message online and become someone like this fool yesterday. Isn't that a bigger threat in some ways? And one, it's much harder for the best of Canada's officials and the best of the U.S. officials to control it.

JUNEAU-KATSUYA: I think you're right on the target right here, because the challenge we're currently facing and the commonality also of the attack is the simplicity of it. It wasn't complicated. It wasn't a bit plot where you have to hijack planes. It wasn't a big plot where you need to have sophisticated weapons or explosives. It was very simple. They use a car, they use a hunting rifle, they use a knife, basically. That's one of the problems.

But again, it's all reactive. One of the times doesn't work. We've got to be working a little bit more in a proactive fashion. The authority can do only so much when you're in the field of security. If you're something else, maybe you can help. The father of the first assignment on Monday, he went to the authority. He said, my son is turning bizarre, I need help. But the police are not social workers. The police are not psychologists. We need to have official resources presented by government that will be capable to step in early enough to defuse and to deprogram the person that is in the process of radicalizing.

CUOMO: And neither Canada nor the U.S. is really equipped with a lot of laws to do that right now. It's very difficult to intercede before there's a criminal action.

David Harris, Michel Juneau-Katsuya, thank you very much for the perspective on this. It's a conversation with have to keep going.

And Alisyn, I have to tell you, it's very interesting, the urgency from U.S. FBI and intelligence sources to say, do not underplay this, because only one person was killed. Every life matters. But the idea of having people now in the U.S. who either don't want to or can't travel to do jihad abroad, who are deranged enough to buy into the idea, is as dangerous a threat as any we face. And it's a big reason we're in Ottawa this morning.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: You're so right, Chris. And in fact Congressman Ed Royce last night on CNN said there was this directive that was issued 30 days ago from ISIS for lone wolves to rise up in Canada and the U.S. So we'll be talking about all of that and what the U.S. can do about it this morning. We'll check back in with you, Chris, in a moment.

There is heightened concern about security here in the U.S. as we're talking about following the second attack on Canadian soil. This week the Obama administration is reaching out to our friends to the north to offer assistance to Stephen Harper's government.

CNN's Michelle Kosinski is live at the White House. Michelle, what has the president said?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, we saw the U.S. embassy locked down in Ottawa after this, heightened security there, NORAD put on increased alert. And the FBI telling field offices to be more vigilant, the FBI and intelligence communities now helping Canada with its investigation.

We did hear the president talk about this yesterday, offering his condolences for what he called the outrageous attacks, and he spoke to Canada's prime minister directly. So now this bigger question, is there an increased threat in the U.S. because of what happened in Canada. We're hearing from the president and U.S. officials that in some respect it's too early to tell. All the information isn't in place yet to know whether this might have been connected to some kind of broader network or plan. They do say, though, that there is no specific threat connected to this in the U.S.

That said, we do know that the U.S. and Canada have been concerned very recently over increased chatter among jihadists. And that was enough for the U.S. to have already increased security at its embassy in Ottawa as well as at another consulate in Canada. There has been increased chatter over the last few weeks, too. You just mentioned that among jihadists wanting to attack law enforcement and military personnel in the U.S.

So what happens now? The national security teams of Canada and the U.S. coordinate closely on this and the U.S. has offered Canada any assistance it might need, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Michelle, tell us what happened last night at the White House? There was another person who jumped the fence?

KOSINSKI: Right, another fence-jumper. This is a 23-year-old believed to be a disturbed individual from Maryland, made it just over the fence. But this time the response was much different and it was fast. We saw dogs apprehend this individual right away. He actually tried to fight off both of these dogs. Both he and the dogs were hurt in the attack. His name is Victor Agasanay (ph). He was taken to the hospital to be treated, and he's now charged with assaulting the dogs as well as unlawful entry and making threats. It doesn't look like at this point though it's connected with some kind of terrorist threat. Interesting to see that he was able to make it over not only the additional barrier fence that was put in after the last fence-jumper, but over the high fence as well. But sources close to this are saying what matters is the response, and this time it worked, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Sure did, release the dogs is the answer, as we've learned. Thanks so much, Michelle Kosinski.

Let's go over to John Berman for some more headlines.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And those dogs are OK, which is very nice to hear. We just got that information from the White House.

CAMEROTA: Oh, good.

BERMAN: Alisyn, thanks so much. We're going to begin with the latest in the fight to contain Ebola in the United States. The Centers for Disease Control now says every airline passenger who arrives in the United States from one of the three hardest-hit West African nations will be monitored by state and local health officials for 21 days. That will be a serious logistical challenge. Some encouraging developments for the Texas nurses infected after treating Thomas Eric Duncan. Amber Vinson's family says she is now Ebola-free, and Nina Oham's condition has been upgraded from fair to good. That is wonderful news. Of course, Duncan was the first Ebola victim to die in the United States.

New details this morning in a deadly car attack in Jerusalem. The State Department says the three-month-old baby girl killed in that attack was American. Israeli police shot and killed the driver, a 20- year-old Palestinian, after he plowed into pedestrians at a tram stop and tried to flee. At least seven people were injured.

Four ex-Blackwater guards are behind bars this morning, convicted in the shooting of 31 unarmed Iraqi civilians. And 17 people died back in 2007 in that attack, including nine and 11-year-old boys. The guards opened fire in a crowded intersection of Baghdad. The men had initially claimed self-defense. The incident angered Iraqis and really changed how U.S. contractors were used in that country.

The University of North Carolina wrapped up in a grading scam that apparently went on for 18 years. A probe by a former federal general counsel at the FBI found more than 3,100 students, mostly athletes, had their grades bumped up by sham classes. This report goes on to find it was designed to save their GPAs, so they could keep playing sports. Sham classes, I call it a shame. What a shame.

CAMEROTA: John, thanks so much. I want to go over to meteorologist Indra Petersons. She's keeping track of all the latest forecasts for us. How is it looking?

INDRA PETERSONS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: A lot of rain, still windy, not nice coming in this morning. I think most of us are feeling it. Two inches of rain fell towards Boston. Easy to see the circulation is still out there this morning. We're still going to be talking about rain and strong winds. That's the difference, Boston gusting even 30 to 40 miles per hour. They will start to die down as the system starts to kick out. But it will be not until tomorrow that finally this low lifts away from uses as we go towards the weekend. So the rain goes away. Even better, the temperatures actually rebound and it will feel a lot better when we start the weekend.

But what I want to get to is tonight, yes, we have a partial solar eclipse. It's going to look like, at sunset, like there is a chunk missing from the sun as it goes down. This is what we love. Remember, you're not supposed to look at though. But here are the best viewing times. Of course, you're in the east, you have it at sunset. Just keep in mind it is not going to be visible in New England; the reason for that, well, you're actually going to see the sun set before the actual shadow from the moon makes its way overhead. Just keep in mind, I know it is so beautiful to look at, you want to look directly at the sun, we know that is damaging. Do not put on sunglasses. Remember, your pupils actually dilate, so it's actually even more damage if you put on sunglasses. You need those proper glasses to look through.

BERMAN: Look away.

PETERSONS: So tempting, though, right? I mean, how beautiful is that.

CAMEROTA: But this the best way to enjoy it, you're presenting it to us.

PETERSONS: I'll look at someone else's pictures and post them and talk about them again, yes, exactly.

CAMEROTA: Better. OK, Indra, thanks so much.

Well, tensions are rising again in Ferguson, Missouri. New clashes between police and protesters as Michael Brown's autopsy and new witness testimony is leaked. Does it support Officer Darren Wilson's claim of self-defense? And what will happen if a jury does not indict Wilson? Our legal experts have strong opinions to share.

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CAMEROTA: Another round of protests erupting in Ferguson overnight as demonstrators call for the arrest of Officer Darren Wilson. A grand jury is still weeks away from making a decision on whether to indict Officer Wilson in the shooting death of Michael Brown. Meanwhile, new details have been leaked about Brown's official autopsy report and it appears to back up Officer Darren Wilson's story that he shot the unarmed teen in self-defense.

Let's bring in CNN legal analyst Paul Callan, and attorney and radio host, Mo Ivory. Great to have you both here. We do have new information this morning, let me read it to you. It's from "The Washington Post," and it is a bit of a bombshell.

"Seven or eight African-American eyewitnesses have provided testimony that is consistent with Officer Wilson's account," meaning seven or eight African-American witnesses say that they believe the officer acted in self-defense. Paul? PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, the thing that's most

disturbing I think at this point is where are these leaks coming from? I mean, this is supposed to be a secret proceeding. The law doesn't allow people to leak information from the grand jury, particularly the grand jury, so it's extremely disturbing that we're getting this level of leaks from the grand jury.

But getting back to the substance of the case, I've always said that the perspective issue is the really important thing. We know now -- at least if the autopsy is correct -- that there was a struggle for the car, for the gun in the car. The police officer's testified that he thought his life was threatened, that Michael Brown was trying to shoot him.

So now it all comes down to what happened outside the car. Was Michael Brown putting his hands up to surrender? Or was he turning to tackle the officer? Michael Brown is over six-foot, weighs 300 pounds, the officer fires in self-defense. And it all depends on your perspective there; I've got to see what those seven witnesses say.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. And, Mo, by the way, "The Washington Post" is vague about what part of Officer Wilson's testimony these eyewitnesses who have come forward support. We don't know if they're talking about in the car, we don't know if they're talking about what happened on the street. And, by th way, we don't know who they are, because "The Washington Post" just cites its own sources. But what do you make of the new development?

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY & RADIO HOST: I make nothing of it. It's all so vague. I really feel that none of this changes anything that we already knew. Even the leaked autopsy report, which of course is the St. Louis County autopsy report, Which by the way the family and the lawyers of Michael Brown have been asking for that report for months now. And nobody has wanted to release that report. But, ironically, it gets leaked.

This is all an attempt to continue to paint Michael Brown in a negative manner, to set up a defense for Officer Wilson. And it's just really troubling. Like Paul said, it's disturbing that this is the manner in which the information is coming out.

How ironic, oh, now there are seven black people that agree with what Officer Wilson says is his side of the story. Who are they? Where have they been? Why haven't they talked about before? Why can't they come out -- the witnesses that spoke about Michael Brown? They've been fine, they've been protected. They haven't seen any harm come to them. So all of a sudden now there's seven or eight black people that are afraid to say anything?

It just sounds all so shady. And thhis is the reason why people have such a distrust of the process.

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAN: I think it's a good point, Mo. One of the reasons that we want grand jury proceedings to be secret is so that witnesses will not be fearful about coming forward and telling what really happened at the scene. And, in truth, we don't know what really happened at is that scene until we hear all of the witness testimony, which only the grand jury has. And it's extremely disturbing to see leaks like this.

CAMEROTA: Let me play for you what Michael Brown's family attorney said about these witnesses who have allegedly come forward. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY GRAY, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: I don't know at what point they're giving their eyewitness testimony. There has been no one that I know of that supports what Officer Wilson is claiming took place outside of the vehicle. If there are witnesses that support what Darren Wilson is saying too took place, then I would love to hear them. So far we haven't heard any. I don't believe any exist. And, thus far, we haven't heard from anyone that supports this story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He's reflecting what Mo is saying, that he doesn't believe that they exist. Why haven't they come forward? So many other people have come forward. Why would these seven or eight not come forward? According to "Tthe Washington Post", it's for fear of their safety. Paul?

CALLAN: Well, the truth of the matter is that, in America, when criminal cases are handled, they're not supposed to be tried in the press. A witness has an obligation maybe to talk to the police or to the grand jury but not to the press. So it's hardly appropriate to say they can't be believed, because they didn't give a press conference, as some of the early witnesses did.

IVORY: Yes, except that this entire case has been so press-centric. The media has been there since this happened. There have been protests in the streets. People have been taught -- this is a very vocal case.

CALLAN: But what difference does it make? Witnesses don't have an obligation to press conferences. And, as a matter of fact, most lawyers will tell them don't talk to the press. Talk to the police, talk to the prosecutor, talk to the grand jury.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it's just peculiar, Mo, that these particular seven or eight have never been heard from when we've heard from so many other people. Mo?

IVORY: Yes, Paul, I think it's a good point to say that we're not -- witnesses aren't obligated to have press conferences and things of that sort. But in this climate and especially in this case, the way the protests are nightly, the media coverage of it all, it would seem that, if there were pertinent information for either side, that it would be brought forward.

I'm particularly disappointed at the prosecutor, McCulloch, for these leaks coming out, for people emailing about what they believe is going to happen in this case, but yet no comment from him. No disparaging remarks about how he is disappointed at the way this is happening. This is why people do not trust him. This is why people felt that he should recuse himself.

CALLAN: I agree with you that McCulloch -- or if it's McCulloch's responsibility. These leaks could be coming from federal authorities. Yesterday, the report was that the autopsy, at least as reported in "The Times," had been leaked by federal authorities, not local authorities. So we don't know about that.

But getting back to why the witnesses don't come forward, the report in "The Washington Post" is that they are African-American witnesses. The sentiment in the African-American community seems to be overwhelmingly, as publicly expressed in demonstrations, against the officer. So the witnesses may have a fear that if they come forward they're going to be subject to criticism and maybe their safety will in danger. I don't know what's going on through their minds.

IVORY: Paul, I understand that, I understand that. But I want to point out if anybody has watched the coverage of the protest, they have been very diverse. They were on many white people that have been out there marching who have been in support of Michael Brown's family, and the way this entire process has happened. So I don't want it to be characterized that they would fear other African-Americans only. There's a nationwide protest going on about the way the case is being handled, both white people, black people, Hispanics, Asians have come out to support the process.

CALLAN: I'm talking about what goes through somebody's mind though. If you're an African-American witness, you're going to be fearful.

CAMEROTA: You're both making great points that people have come together and people could be fearful, yes. And of course there's the suggestion that all this is being leaked to set up, to prepare the protesters, in the case that he's not indicted. But we'll talk about that another day. Paul, Mo, thank you very much.

All right, who will be the next president? Chris Christie is pretty sure it will be a governor and he's taking some not so veiled swipes at his potential 2016 rivals. John King has all of that INSIDE POLITICS. Plus Chris is on the ground for news Ottawa. Chris.

CUOMO: And one of the things that we've learned here that is certainly worth reporting is about the Sergeant-At-Arms in Canada's House of Commons. This morning, the world now knows Kevin Vickers as something else -- a hero. He may have prevented really a bloodbath in the Parliament Building here. He took out the Ottawa gunman before worse could be done. We're going to take a look at who he is and what happened, straight ahead.

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