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American Doctor Diagnosed with Ebola in New York City; Current U.S. Protocols for Handling Possible Ebola Spread Assessed; Growing Concerns Over NYPD Ax Attack; Heightened Alert for Lone Wolf Attacks

Aired October 24, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you at this hour, the officials from the CDC are here in New York at this hospital helping in any way that they can. The hospital where this doctor usually works is Columbia Presbyterian Hospital. They issued a statement saying he is a responsible doctor, that he is also very committed and he has not treated any patients, he has not been to work, Alisyn, since he got back from Guinea. In terms of his condition all we know is that they are hoping for a quick recovery. New York City's mayor saying yesterday he is in, quote, "good shape."

But it is important to point out in this conversation there has been a lot of criticism on social media of the actions he took going around the city. Let's not forget that this is someone that risked their life to go save other lives in West Africa. Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Poppy, we're going to talk all about that with our next guest. Let's bring in Dr. Alexander Van Tulleken. He's a CNN medical analyst and senior fellow at the Institute for International Humanitarian Affairs. Dr. Irwin Redlener, he's the head of the Columbia University National Center for disaster preparedness. And on the phone with us is CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Gentlemen, thanks so much. Great to have all of you here.

It was probably only a matter of time in a teeming metropolis of 8 million people like New York City that someone with Ebola would end up here. Dr. Redlener, how confident are you this morning that New York is better prepared than Dallas was when the first patient showed up there?

DR. IRWIN REDLENER, HEAD OF COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY NATIONAL CENTER FOR DISEASE PREPAREDNESS: There's no comparison really. First of all, we've had the benefit of seeing what transpired in Dallas, which is just horrifying for many of us. But even before that, starting in July of this year, preparations began to make sure the city was ready for Ebola.

CAMEROTA: And what do those look like? What kind of preparations have been happening since July?

REDLENER: First of all, this starts with a lot of organizing coordination among the various agencies in the city so that everybody begins to formulate a plan, meaning the office of emergency management, but primarily the health department, that health and hospitals corporation, the private hospitals, constantly meeting, looking at the protocols, adapting protocols that exist outside New York to the specific environment of New York City. A lot of training had begun already so we had a good step ahead there.

CAMEROTA: Is Bellevue hospital as prepared as the Ebola centers we know of doing so well such as Emory?

DR. ALEXANDER VAN TULLEKEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Yes. I think they've been drilling a lot. They're very well-equipped. We've seen demonstrations. They opened it up to the cameras, we've seen demonstrations, suits they're wearing, nothing like the old CDC protocols. I would say their operation is as watertight as it could reasonably be.

CAMEROTA: We have a video showing this patient's apartment building and police going and trying to prepare it and cordon off an area around his apartment and I suppose alert people. Let me show you some of this. Here are the police. This is after they've cordoned off the area. And what you're about to see has raised some eyebrows. They are on a public street. They walk up to a garbage can. They dispose of their gloves in the public garbage can before getting in their police cruiser, and they walk away and there's -- OK, now, mind you, they did not and they took off their protective face gear.

Now they were not inside the patient's apartment. They were cordoning off the area. Is this Sanjay, I know you're on the phone. I don't know if you've seen this video. Can you see this?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I have seen that. And, you know, that obviously confuse as lot of people. I think given that that they weren't in the apartment the chance of that being contaminated is basically nil.

But you know, Alisyn, I think this is part of the confusion for people. On one hand we say someone comes back after having taken care of patients. The doctor does not need to be quarantined, that makes sense scientifically because until are you sick you are not going to spread the virus.

On the other hand, people show up to his apartment. They cordon it off. They're doing what seems like pretty significant measures around that. And so it confuses people. Was he transmitting the virus? Was he not transmitting the virus? What are we to take away from it? Scientifically when you see those gloves being thrown away, I think there's really no risk. But, again, you can understand, what is the message to the public who is watching that?

CAMEROTA: That's the issue Dr. Re Redlener, of course, because it seems as though everybody should be following the same protocol, and that doesn't seem like protocol.

REDLENER: That's true. But this is really the nub of the problem here that Sanjay is talking about. It's sort of this battle between doing what we know is scientifically valid and from a public health point of view valid. And then there's the massive reality of public perception and public anxiety about things. So from an optics point of view, as they say, that didn't look good. From the reality point of view, I would say there's literally zero risk for what happened in this little video clip we're looking at.

CAMEROTA: In terms of public perception, another thing that heightens anxiety is the fact that this patient, Dr. Craig Spencer was going to restaurants and bowling and riding on the subway, which on any given day is a petri dish. The subway, sometimes we're packed like sardines in there and you worry if someone sneezes. Do New Yorkers have any reason to feel anxiety this morning?

VAN TULLEKEN: It's really important to say, Dr. Spencer has followed the protocols, not just the national protocols, but the protocols of the organization that is most expert in the world of dealing with Ebola. They've treated more patients than any other medical organization by a very long way, thousand compared to tens for most organizations. He hasn't broken any rules. He's been very responsible, and I don't think he's got anyone at risk at all.

And so the story we're telling, even the story of saying this guy is a hero because he was working in Africa to save lives and now he may put New Yorkers at risk, even that isn't correct. He hasn't put New Yorkers at risk. And the work he was doing in Africa reduces our risk of getting Ebola here. And that is the only way we change our risk. We have a new African country affected. We've got Mali with the first case. That's where we should be concerned about. If you want to panic about Ebola, panic about it in West Africa.

CAMEROTA: That's an excellent point. But here's another point of confusion, Sanjay, and I want to askt you about that. As we know, when people have tested positive for Ebola here, such as with, say, Thomas Duncan, the passengers on his plane were alerted, were tracked done and alerted and monitored. Why not passengers on subway that Mr. Spencer was riding on Wednesday. Why not look for them? Sanjay, can you hear me?

GUPTA: So with the nurse I believe, I think Amber Vinson I think you may be talking about, the passengers were alerted. There was a question whether she had a low-grade fever between her flight to Cleveland and Dallas. So the question was, did she have some symptoms even though very low grade fever, could she possibly be transmitting the virus? The likelihood is very, very low.

But this term, Alisyn, "abundance of caution" gets tossed around a lot, and I think that that's what we're seeing here. I think the science sort of says that until someone is actually is sick and transmitting bodily fluids that are infected with the virus, they're not going to get other people sick.

Keep in mind, you may remember the story of Mr. Patrick Sawyer. He's the gentleman who flew from Liberia to Nigeria. Upon arriving in Nigeria, he literally collapsed in the airport terminal. So he was quite sick by the time he landed. Health care workers did get infected as a result of caring for him. But here's the point -- nobody on the plane ride from Liberia to Nigeria or any of the flights in between got sick. Nobody got sick on those flights Mr. Duncan was in the apartment for two days before going to the hospital. Symptomatic, he got turned away from the hospital the first time. None of his friends or family members who were in the apartment with him got sick.

So again, the abundance of caution important, but here are a couple of examples of people not transmitting the virus to people who are not health care workers because they weren't as sick at the time. I think it's a really important point.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Redlener, very quickly, maybe we're using too much caution.

REDLENER: Yes. I was just going to say the abundance of caution as Sanjay is talking about is really what happens, but it's a slippery slope. Suddenly we're starting to do things that are wildly not appropriate, expensive, and actually fear-producing themselves. We have to be careful with that as many of us in public health know.

CAMEROTA: Doctors, thanks to all of you. Always great to talk to you. We feel better after hearing your segments. Thanks so much.

We have much more on our coverage of Ebola in New York City. Straight ahead we will speak about the risk and response with New York's governor Andrew Cuomo. Let's get over to John Berman who is in for Michaela for some other top stories.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Alisyn. U.S. security officials are looking into claims that ISIS used chlorine gas against Iraq police officers last month near Baghdad. "The Washington Post" said hospital officials confirmed a yellow gas the men were attacked with was chlorine. President Obama will meet today with the National Security Council to discuss ISIS strategy. Turkey's government has given hundreds of Iraqi Peshmerga fighters permission to cross Turkish territory into northern Syria to help defend Kobani from ISIS.

The Obama administration is launching a new front in the war on ISIS, attacking its financial support. They are moving to identify buyers of oil being trafficked on the black market. That generates millions of dollars a day for ISIS. Treasury undersecretary David Cohen says they are asking governments to stop paying ransom for hostages, another major income source for the Islamic militants.

We are learning more about the most recent White House fence-jumper, 23-year-old Dominic Adesanya was arrested at the White House back in July in order to mental health screening. Adesanya's father says he wanted to ask the president about spying devices he believed were stashed in his home. Adesanya is being held without bond.

And welcome to Twitter, Queen Elizabeth. She sent her first tweet this morning. It said "It is a pleasure to open the information age expedition at the Science Museum and I hope people will enjoy visiting, signed Elizabeth R." She went on to tweet -- the verified British monarchy account which sent a follow-up -- photos saying she in fact sent the message herself. Elizabeth R., by the way, stands for Elizabeth Regina, which is the Latin for queen or monarch, proving she is just like all of us, signing her name with the "R" At the end. CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Said by a man whose middle name is Spinoza.

BERMAN: Elizabeth R.

CUOMO: He tweeted her and he said in his tweet -- now that you're on twitter, will you DM me? I have a question.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: If you're on twitter, Queen Elizabeth R., come on.

CUOMO: If she does DM you, what is your question?

BERMAN: I want to ask her why choose Elizabeth R.? Why not Elizabeth Windsor.

CAMEROTA: Great one.

BERMAN: You look that.

CAMEROTA: I don't know if she know what is "DM" is but you're welcoming her into the Twitter age.

BERMAN: Welcome to the information age.

CAMEROTA: Direct message him if you do, queen, your highness, I should say.

CUOMO: He has a question.

CAMEROTA: We will keep you posted on all of that.

Meanwhile, one of our top stories, a man with a hatchet coming out of nowhere to attack the NYPD, the new information about the suspect that may point to terrorism.

CUOMO: Plus, we're trying to figure out more about this Ottawa shooter. There is new video of him during the rampage. What's it going to teach about was there any kind of plan here? Was it just a haphazard attack by a lunatic?

And we're getting a hero's welcome at work for the hero who took down the shooter, the man with the mace. We're going to talk about an emotional moment that he had with one of his close friends. This is a more complicated situation for him than you may think.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: There are growing concerns this morning that the violent ax attack against the NYPD is another case of Islamist extremism. Take a look at this surveillance video. You can see the attacker, identified as Zale Thompson, going after officers with a hatchet. Thompson was shot and killed after injuring two police officers.

CNN's Alexandra Field has the latest on the dramatic attack and its potential ties to extremism. Alexandra. ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, we're talking about four rookie officers who were involved in this attack. They were in the subway, they had just been asked to pose for a picture when a man wielding an ax went after them. That attack only ended after two of the officers were able to shoot and kill the man who went after them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (voice-over): This morning, law enforcement authorities on heightened alert after this terrifying ax attack in Queens yesterday. The assault, caught on camera. watch as the man rushes at four NYPD officers, a metal hatchet in hand. The suspect hitting one in the arm, striking another in the head, before two uninjured officers shoot and kill him.

Law enforcement officials say it appears the suspect was stalking the officers, hiding behind a bus shelter waiting to attack. The suspect identified as Zale Thompson. CNN now learning he has a criminal record in California and was discharged from the Navy for misconduct.

On a Facebook page bearing his name and location in Queens, the black and white profile photo shows an armed masked fighter, spear, sword and rifle at the ready; the cover photo, a quote from the Koran judging those who have wandered astray.

This brutal assault comes on the heels of heightened security across North America after radical jihadists recently threatened to attack military and police officers, and two attacks in Canada believed to be motivated by Islamic extremism. Authorities are investigating any possible links Thompson might have had to extremist groups.

BILL BRATTON, NYPD COMMISSIONER: There's nothing that we know as of this time that would indicate that were the case. I think the certainly the heightened concerns relative to that type of assault based on what's just happened in Canada.

FIELD: Both officers struck by Thompson's ax now recovering at Jamaica Hospital. An additional person, a 29-year-old bystander, was shot in the back during the scuffle. She was taken to the hospital, but her condition remains unknown.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD (on camera): Law enforcement officers say in this case that the police did nothing to provoke this attack. The context of all this, of course, is the important part. We know there were recent calls from ISIS for sympathizers in the west to launch attacks on men and women in uniform. So this is what law enforcement officers are looking at. A lot of questions here for them to investigate. Chris.

CUOMO: Oh, that's for sure, Alexandra. And if there's one thing we can bank on, it's that police officers didn't provoke an attack when a man comes at them with an ax.

So let's figure out what is going on here. Let's bring in CNN national security analyst, Fran Townsend. She's a former Bush homeland security adviser. And Mr. Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

So, Fran, we're up in Ottawa yesterday. We're working intelligence sources -- not you, but others. And we are told what you're seeing here should not be minimized; it is the perfection of the threat. It is not about a big group coming here and doing a big thing. That takes too much, it's too easy for to us detect now, or at least we can. But deranged people, diseased of mind people, looking for a sense of validation and some perverse message of violence, that is very hard to control. Do you agree that this is not the easy thing to deal with, it is the hardest thing?

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It is the hardest thing, Chris, and I do think we have to put together what facts we do have. We know that ISIS has called for these attacks. We know that the FBI issued a bulletin last week warning their personnel about these potential attacks. And we know that what they're looking for, what we now kind of call these hit-and-run attacks, right, it's the lone individual who's been inspired, whether it's by the message or by the photographs, of other attacks.

And so these really are very difficult to prevent, because you don't need a large group, right? You need one person with a weapon, who begins to cause casualties or injuries to others, because of the inspiration of groups like ISIS.

CUOMO: So Daveed, are we just looking at the same pool of people in the U.S. that would shoot up a mall and then afterwards it winds up being some lamentation about how they weren't liked in high school? I mean, is this the pool we're dealing with? And Islam is the new guise for their own kind of outlet for anger?

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, SENIOR FELLOW, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: It's not the same exact pool, no. There's different radicalization trajectories, there's different things that motivate people. But I don't think it's actually that bad an analogy.

One thing that has occurred in the past few days -- if this is an act of home-grown terrorism, then we've seen three lone wolf attacks in the U.S. and Canada in four days. To put that into context, over 15 Western countries through 2010, there had been an average of 4.7 lone wolf attack as year. That means that we're seeing a spike right now.

And I think Fran is right, that looking to possible ISIS inspiration is an important part of this.

CUOMO: Or is it just copycat? They're seeing it in the news, they're saying, oh, that's a great avenue to dignity. Let me try that stupid thing. And then they go and have the same ill result.

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Absolutely. That's where I was going. I think it's important to look at the way ISIS has been able to capture the attention of the media the way that -- not only the Iraq and the Syria exploits being so thoroughly covered, but also each of these attacks is being covered in detail.

I think it's important to both understand the gravity of this and also put it into perspective so we don't risk valorizing these guys.

CUOMO: And on that score, Fran, why are we calling them lone wolves? These guys aren't assets. There's nothing brave about them. They're not warriors of any kind. Even that, oh, it's a lone wolf attack, it suggests that this is someone like a sleeper cell. Like they've been out there and they can do it on their own. Really, this is the opposite, right? These are people who would never really be recruited by any any more developed terrorist organization, otherwise they wouldn't waste an asset on a one-for-one proposition of killing, right?

TOWNSEND: No, that's exactly right, Chris. And, look, calling them the lone wolf, the whole idea is to emphasize the point that they are single actors, right, and the wolf is preying on the innocent, right, it's on the unsuspecting. I mean, when you look at the full tape, surveillance tape, this guy clearly was lying, in New York, was lying in wait behind this bus stop waiting, watching the officers and came at them when they were posing for this picture with their backs turned. I mean, this guy is a real coward. But he was -- he had a plan and he was executing that plan to cause injury to these officers, and clearly would have killed them if the two uninjured officers hadn't shot him.

CUOMO: It is so easy to misconstrue this situation as something to kind of blow off. The ax fool here in New York City, the Ottawa shooter. So terrible for the reserve corporal, Cirillo up there, to lose his life, the officer to be shot in the parliament, these officers to be hurt down here. But that's not that bad. We see so much worse.

I think we're making a mistake when we do that. Because these -- everyone in the intelligence community, Daveed, says I don't know what we do to stop something like this. I don't know how we monitor thoughts in any real way. And that this is the real problem of fighting an idea, is when it can take root in someone whose mind has no idea.

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Yes, it's much more difficult to stop a lone wolf act of terrorism than it is to stop group terrorism. W hen you're looking at a group, then even if all the acts that they have taken in support of an illegal end are legal in and of themselves, the conspiracy itself can be a crime. Whereas for a lone individual, you can't conspire with yourself. You have to wait until they actually cross a line. That's why the U.S. has been so aggressive about using sting operations, which are of course a controversial tactic.

CUOMO: Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, Fran Townsend, thank you very much. I wish you both a good weekend.

You know, Alisyn, one of the ways that the metaphor about the school shooters comes is that the experts we talk to say the best defense against these is not anything the government has control over -- it's communities. It's people who know people who seem to be going the wrong way, and to get out there and get them some help before they can make such a bad decision. CAMEROTA: Well, that's absolutely right, although sometimes these

people are so solitary that it's hard to know what they have up their sleeves, but we will talk about all of that.

Also, a hero's welcome for the man who prevented a larger tragedy in Canada's capital. We'll ask one of his closest friends about this emotional moment. Look at his face here, trying to contain his emotions. We'll also talk about the shooter's possible motive that we've learned more about.

And Ebola hits New York City, but is the Big Apple prepared to contain the virus? Governor Andrew Cuomo will join us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Welcome back to NEW DAY. New York City is dealing with its first Ebola patient. Dr. Craig Spencer, a volunteer for Doctors Without Borders, has tested positive. He returned from Guinea last week; he was treating Ebola patients there. Spencer is now in isolation at Bellevue Hospital.

But what kind of care is he receiving? And are the public and the doctors and nurses safe today? Let's ask New York's governor, Andrew Cuomo.

Governor, thanks so much for being with us.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NEW YORK: My pleasure. Thank you for having me, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: We know you have a bit of delay there from Albany. So we will make the best of that.