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Nurse Placed in Quarantine after Returning From Africa; New York's and New Jersey's New Ebola Protocols Criticized; Another Washington School Shooting Victim has Died

Aired October 27, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back to NEW DAY. It's Monday, October 27, about 8:00 in the east. Chris Cuomo here joined by Alisyn Camerota. And a lot of news to tell you about. Another potential Ebola patient in New York City. No, not another health care who is returning, this is a kid, five-years-old. He is just back with his family from Guinea we believe. And he's now at a designated Ebola center and is being evaluated, not tested. Why not tested? Because they have to check to see his symptoms, see if he was near anyone who had Ebola in the first place before they take that step.

Now, this comes as concerns about the virus coming in more volume here in the United States as politicians push for mandatory quarantines.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: New Jersey is clarifying the strict quarantine process, which is under fire from a nurse, Kaci Hickox, who has been kept in isolation since arriving back from Sierra Leone. Hickox says she's not sick, she has no signs of Ebola, and she wants out of that tent. She's telling CNN that her basic human rights are being violated. And our coverage begins this hour with CNN's Elizabeth Cohen. You can't blame this nurse who feels that her human rights are being violated. She's not allowed to go home.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, she's not allowed to go home. She's not sick. She's tested negative for Ebola twice now. But the people, the folks who advocate for quarantines say they will protect the public. But the folks who criticize say, look, they could actually lead to more cases of Ebola.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: This morning the governors of New York and New Jersey offering clarification on their days-old policy of Ebola quarantining. Under the guidelines health care workers returning from treating Ebola patients in West Africa will remain quarantined for a mandatory 21 days. Residents of the state can stay inside their homes. In addition, those traveling from Ebola hot zones who haven't come into contact with Ebola patients will be actively monitored. For nurse Kaci Hickox, isolated for three days by the state of New Jersey, the new policy has been a nightmare. I spoke with Kaci on the phone.

KACI HICKOX, NURSE IN QUARANTINE: I don't think most people understand what it's like to be alone in a tent and you know that there is nothing is wrong with you and that decisions are being made that don't' make sense.

COHEN: Hickox, a resident of Maine, was quarantined inside this tent after she arrived at Newark Liberty International Airport from treating Ebola patients in Sierra Leone. She currently shows no symptoms of the virus and tested negative for Ebola twice.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: My first and foremost obligation is protect public health and safety of people of New Jersey.

COHEN: The mayor of New York City blasted the decision, which some say deters health care workers from taking part in the fight to detain Ebola abroad.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, (D) NEW YORK CITY: This hero coming back from the front having done the right thing was treated with disrespect.

COHEN: Hickox lawyers are fighting for her immediate release.

NORMAN SIEGEL, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: We believe that that policy infringes on the constitutional liberty interests.

COHEN: Currently officials are imposing these mandatory Ebola quarantine policies in three states, New York, New Jersey, and Illinois. The policy was abruptly implemented Friday, just one day after New York doctor Craig Spencer, who treated patients in Guinea, was diagnosed with Ebola.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO, (D) NEW YORK: Some people will say we're being too cautious. I'll take that criticism.

COHEN: A federal official says the CDC was surprised by the mandate but acknowledges state and local officials have the prerogative to set tighter policies.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: Now, critics of these quarantines say that they are too broad, unclear, and some say unnecessary because if you're not sick, you can't spread the disease.

CAMEROTA: We're going to debate all of that in a moment. Thanks so much for setting that up for us, Elizabeth.

CUOMO: Because then you go on the other side and they say the 21 days, you have to wait the full 21 before you really know if someone is sick. So now we have to deal with that factor as well.

But let's get back to Kaci Hickox. That's the nurse we're talking about. She's the one under mandatory quarantine in New Jersey. She's not a criminal. She wasn't ducking detection. She is a champion who went to do the one thing that gives us the best chance of keeping Ebola from the U.S., which is fighting it in Africa. She reached out to CNN this morning, telling us after an evaluation Sunday her infectious disease doctor did not recommend she get tested for Ebola again today. She's already gone public with harsh words for New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and the system that has her preparing legal papers in order to get out. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HICKOX: Once I got to the hospital, they of course tested my blood and confirmed that it was negative. And I know there have been reports of me having a fever in the airport, but I truly believe that it was an instrument error. So when I arrived in in the isolation unit, they took my temperature orally and it was completely normal.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Does it remain completely normal?

HICKOX: Yes, it has also been completely normal. I heard from my mother last night who called me concerned and said Governor Christie just said in an interview that you were quote, unquote, "obviously ill." And this is frustrating to me. First of all, I don't think he's a doctor, and, secondly, he's never laid eyes on me. And thirdly, I have been a symptomatic since I've been here. I feel physically completely strong and emotionally completely exhausted. I have not been communicated a clear plan. My quarantine order was written by the New Jersey health commissioner, and even to this day no one has told me what it means. This to me is just completely unacceptable.

CROWLEY: Do you understand the need of governors, be they from New Jersey or New York or Illinois to say we need to make sure that they're in isolation until we know they're past the danger zone? Do you understand that?

HICKOX: I completely don't understand it. You know, I think we have to be careful about letting politicians make medical and public health decisions. I understand that people feel like they have a risk. And I think we can have a conversation about what further measures might look like. But I think this is an extreme that is really unacceptable. And I feel like my basic human rights have been violated.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: All right, so let's figure out if this is extreme. Let's continue the conversation with Dr. Kent Sepkowitz, infectious disease specialist and deputy physician in chief at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. He's also a contributor for "The Daily Beast," and Mel Robbins, CNN analyst and legal analyst. Great to have both of you with me. So, doctor, does this woman need to be in the isolation tent for the next 21 days?

DR. KENT SEPKOWITZ, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: Certainly not. I think the court of public opinion is correct in this instance. Public health authorities would not have put her there. I think the real downstream danger of this is that actually we might need mandatory quarantine in a different scenario and it's going to be hard to get us back to having that be an acceptable --

CAMEROTA: In what scenario do we need mandatory quarantine?

SEPKOWITZ: Yes. There is a scenario where mandatory quarantine would be necessary, which is as follows. We know that you can have a false negative Ebola test if you have symptoms for up to three days. In other words, if she had fever and she was negative on day one, we would want to keep her with fever, which she did not have, we would keep her quarantined as a traveler for up to three days. So there might be a need for mandatory quarantine going forward. I think that this is going to make it very hard for mandatory quarantine to happen at all. She does not need it.

CAMEROTA: She has no fever, she no symptoms. So she feels she is just being punished because she went to West Africa to try to volunteer and help people.

MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR AND LEGAL ANALYST: She is correct, 100 percent correct. Now, look, we're talking about an issue, Alisyn, where it's public health concerns versus individual liberties. And the law is clear. In matters of stopping the spread of any kind of disease like this, particularly around border control, the federal government, the state governments have tremendous powers that are given to them to fight this kind of infection.

However, you still as a citizen of the United States and even as somebody visiting the United States, you have individual liberties. And what she's being robbed of is due process. They have put forward this quarantine, Alisyn, which in my opinion is absolutely ridiculous. It's a knee jerk reaction. Look, more people are going to die from the flu, probably thousands more people are going to die from the flu. And I don't see a quarantine or any kind of matter like this from stopping the spread of it.

CAMEROTA: Let me play for you what governors Cuomo and Christie have said in justifying why they decided to put some people into quarantine, including her. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

A. CUOMO: My practice has always been to err on the side of caution. The old expression is hope for the best but prepare for the worst, and that is exactly what we have done for four years in New York.

CHRISTIE: It's the government's job to protect the safety and health of our citizens. And so we've taken this action, and I absolutely have no second thoughts about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: See doctor, the problem is you can't always rely on people to self-quarantine. As we saw with the Dr. Nancy Snyderman case from NBC, she was supposed to be in quarantine in her home, but she went out driving around, was going to meet a friend at a restaurant. With Dr. Craig Spencer, he was self-monitoring but h everywhere going bowling and he was on the subway. So it makes people feel better if anyone with any possible exposure is kept in isolation for 21 days.

SEPKOWITZ: Right. I understand that entirely. I think, though, there's a need for us to get the message across about what does constitute true risks and what does not. And I think that the governors have a lot to worry about, and I don't envy their job at all. But I think by moving us away from a scientific, evidence-based approach to these decisions and toward, well, everyone is nervous, let's try to make them less nervous, I think that's a big mistake. It's giving in to, I think, unjustified panic.

ROBBINS: I 100 percent agree. And look, there's alternatives here. You could take anybody that's coming back that has had direct contact, been working with Ebola patients.

CAMEROTA: Like Kaci Hickox.

ROBBINS: Yes, exactly. And you could put her in quarantine for a day. You could give her a specific caseworker from the CDC. You could give her self-monitoring protocols.

CAMEROTA: There's longer gestation period than just a day.

ROBBINS: Part of what the doctor is saying, and I completely agree with this, is that it feeds into irrational panic on the part of the public. And for governors to come out and say, hey. we're just going to be super cautious here when the truth of the matter is there's a 21 day incubation period, the only people that contracted this here in the United States have had direct contact, typically caring for patients, and all of them except for Mr. Duncan have been cured have been cured of Ebola.

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, let me read for you what Kaci Hickox's experience is. She wrote a letter and it was published in Dallas this weekend. Let me just tell you what she's going through in isolation. She says, this is when she first came in Newark International Airport. "I was tired, hungry, and confused. But I tried to remain calm. My temperature was taken using a forehead scanner and it read a temperature of 98. I was feeling physically healthy but emotionally exhausted. Three hours passed. No one seemed to be in charge. No one would tell me what was going on or what would happen to me. Eight police cars escorted me to the University Hospital in Newark, were there. Sirens blared, lights flashed. Again, I wondered what I had done wrong." Does she have any legal case or recourse?

ROBBINS: She has hired an attorney. She does not have any legal recourse in terms of getting some sort of damages. I think her only recourse is to say I don't have any due process here. There's been no hearing. There's no chance for me to appeal this. There's no court system to go to. And that's part of the problem. You create these kneejerk policies based on public fear and you don't provide the corresponding protection for an individual that's now in lockdown.

CAMEROTA: Maybe she can be sent home to Maine in an ambulance today.

ROBBINS: With eight cars escorting her.

CAMEROTA: And sirens blaring. Mel Robbins, Kent Sepkowitz, thanks so much for coming in with the information. We appreciate it.

Let's go over to Michaela with more news.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks so much. Great conversation there.

Here are headlines now. The final U.S. marines and British troops have officially ended combat operations in Afghanistan. They transferred camps Leatherneck and Bastion to Afghan control. The American and British flags were lowered for the last time marking that military milestone.

Residents in the eastern part of Hawaii are on alert this morning, high alert in fact, as flowing lava races towards some of the towns there. Officials in the Puna region of the Big Island say lava from the Kilauea volcano is moving about 15 yards per hour. Residents are preparing to evacuate. That lava flow began back in June but only picked up speed in the last few days. We'll keep watching that for us.

An Ohio man held captive in North Korea for five months received a warm welcome home at church services Sunday. Jeffrey Fowle was spotted shaking hands at congregation, addressing the crowd there in the church in Ohio. He said it felt good to be free and prayed for quick return of two other Americans still being held in North Korea, Matthew Miller and Kenneth Bae.

And in case you needed another reason to love chocolate, a new study from "Nature and Neuroscience" suggests a natural compound found in cocoa can reverse memory loss. The study found it can improve connectivity in part of the brain that works with memory. But naturally researchers warn the compound exists only in minuscule amounts, so overeating chocolate to help your memory is probably not the wisest.

CUOMO: Oddly, I do not remember the last part of what she said. And I don't remember to eat more chocolate, especially with the weekend coming up. I got a little pregame going this weekend in my town.

PEREIRA: Did you say the weekend coming up? It's like five days away. I'm not trying to --

CAMEROTA: Halloween lover.

CUOMO: Don't kill the dream.

CAMEROTA: He's excited for Halloween.

CUOMO: We got it going this past weekend. What's your favorite one, by the way?

PEREIRA: Which one, Halloween costume or candy?

CUOMO: Candy.

PEREIRA: M&M's, peanut, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Delicious Twix.

CUOMO: New mentality, can't go with nuts. It's right up there with Ebola in terms of what parents fear. Twix, that's strong, cookie and caramel. Sometimes I feel like a nut, sometimes I don't. I'll go with Almond Joy.

CAMEROTA: All right, getting back to one of our top stories, he was a popular freshman and a homecoming prince with a bright future. So what prompted him to open fire inside a Washington state high school, killing two of his classmates injuring three more?

CUOMO: The key is to know why so we can see signs in others before this happens again hopefully. Now, to help with that we're going to speak live with one of the victim's friends who is obviously hurting very much right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: School is closed for the entire week. And when students return, it's not clear if they'll ever eat in the cafeteria again where the shooting took place. No shooting makes sense, but this is more perplexing because the shooter targeted his friends and cousins.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON (voice-over): Breaking overnight, a second victim, Gia Soriano, died as a result of her injuries suffered during Friday shooting at this Washington high school. Her family devastated, releasing this statement.

DR. JOANNE ROBERTS, PROVIDENCE REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: Gia is our beautiful daughter. And words cannot express how much we will miss her.

SIMON: This just hours after hundreds packing the bleachers of the Marysville Pilchuck gymnasium, an emotional tribal song to mourn for a grieving community trying to heal.

TONY HATCH, RELATIVE TO NATE HATCH: The family is hurting really bad right now, looking for answers, answers that might not exist for us.

SIMON: Many still asking why the popular teen would want to target his best friends and his own a family. It was Friday morning when freshman Jaylen Fryberg entered the cafeteria, walked up to a table where two cousins were sitting with friends and opened fire with a .40 caliber handgun.

JORDAN LUTON, WITNESS: He came up from behind and fired about six bullets into the backs of them.

SIMON: Three others remain hospitalized in intensive care. Shaylee Chuckulnaskit, and cousins Nate Hatch and Andrew Fryberg. The first victim now identified as Zoe Galasso remembered as a beautiful soul who always had a smile on her face.

KAYANNA ANDREWS, FRIEND OF SLAIN STUDENT: She was so beautiful, and she was just so funny and amazing, and we all loved her so much.

SIMON: Teacher Megan Silberberger now being held as a hero. Witnesses say the first year social studies teacher ran towards gunfire and confronted the shooter.

ERIC CERVANTES, WITNESS: She grabbed his arm, hand on hand. It happened like in seconds.

SIMON: Moments later, Fryberg is dead of an apparent suicide. Exactly why this all happened is still unclear. "The New York Daily News" reporting that students say Jaylen targeted the group after he was spurned by a love interest who chose one of his cousins over him.

A friend of Zoe Galasso telling CNN that the victim was dating Andrew Fryberg, the shooter's cousin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're great friends. There's no explanation, like he snapped for whatever reason.

SIMON: Recently elected homecoming prince, Fryberg was a well-liked student. But on Twitter, he had a darker personality.

"I know it seems like I'm sweating it off but I'm not. And I never will be able to."

And one day before the attack, "It won't last. It will never last."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: All right. We need to know why this happened, and how to heal and how to help others.

And let's do that with Corey Williams, a family friend of Zoe Galasso, the first victim in the shooting.

We also have Nik Baumgart. He's the pastor at the Grove Church in Marysville, Washington.

Gentlemen, thank you for joining us this morning. I wish it were under very, very different circumstances.

Overnight, we have learned about Gia Soriano, she lost her life as a result of what happened here and our condolences to you and her loved ones in the community.

Corey, how are you this morning?

COREY WILLIAMS, FAMILY FRIEND OF SHOOTING VICTIM: I'm doing fine. I'm just really feeling the weight of the entire circumstances that are going on, especially on behalf of my friend and their family.

CUOMO: Pastor, for all of the flowers behind you, each one represents a gesture and also one person who's very confused and hurt about how this could ever happen. What are you telling your congregants?

NIK BAUMGART, PASTOR, THE GROVE CHURCH: That it's day by day, and it's moment by moment. Whether it's grief that's expressed or grief you don't feel right away. That we're going to get through this together. It's OK, however you feel. We're going to navigate this day by day. CUOMO: And it's not about the event. I know the media often gets

caught up in the details. It's about the people who are involved and not just the shooter.

Corey, tell us about Zoe.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm really familiar with the parents. Didn't get a great opportunity to be close to Zoe. But knowing the parents, it's a clear representation of the type of person Zoe is. The outpouring that's happened simply in the short amount of time really speaks to the type of people that they were in the community and -- which is why we are doing everything we can both spiritually and tangibly for the family.

CUOMO: Why, the most important question -- why most frightening thing to consider. It takes you closer to what happened. What are they coming up with? Why their daughter?

WILLIAMS: I know there's a lot of tears. I had a chance to spend some time with the family, and it's a thick feeling there. It's just sad. And there is a lot of just holding and crying together. I don't know if they've really reached the why question yet.

CUOMO: They're just trying to hold it together. That's very understandable.

Pastor, when these happen -- and they happen too often -- we see a pretty distinct formula. This kid was troubled, maybe mentally ill. He was ignored, he was an outcast, supposed to get treatment.

He was getting it and didn't take it seriously. He didn't take his meds, he was increasingly angry. Everybody thought something might happen and he had access to weapons and then we have the tragic event.

This situation seems to check almost none of those boxes.

BAUMGART: I think it's a mystery that we sit here and get into the why and what. I'm sure as people continue to dig, they're going to come up with theories and ideas and thoughts.

You know, I don't know where he was at as far as processing life. I don't know what stories come out of this that become clear that the heartache was so heavy or burden he bear was so terrible. I don't know.

You know, we're all different as individuals. It's hard to see how everybody processes everything all the time. I don't think that it's a stereotype or way to sort of put a person in a box. I don't think we can do that at this time.

CUOMO: From what you're hearing, was this kid's reputation consistent with what we've been reporting that he was seen as a good kid, seen as somebody who had things going for him?

BAUMGART: Yes. I mean, you have a guy who's part of the tribe, was young leader in his tribe. I mean, that was pretty evident from people that did know him and did recognize that this guy has gifts and talents to be a real leader. I think that's a pretty incredible thing to have said. As well as students he played football with and mingled around and the friendships that he had.

I think that's part of the shock of the situation is on one hand, with some of those stereotypes, you could say we could see this coming. With this here, this is one of those you go, this is a kid who we're not sure exactly what he was processing. That's tough about the whole thing.

CUOMO: We know other kids hit by him in this are still struggling. Couples are stable, one in serious condition. So, we have to keep prayers and thoughts going for them. We'll monitor the situation going forward, of course.

But, Corey, you set up a Go Fund Me page for Zoe's family. Obviously, a lot of what they're dealing with, you know, can never be dealt with financial, it's all emotional. There's no price to pay to get past that.

But what is the need right now that people should know about?

WILLIAMS: I don't even know if the family can wrap their mind around what their needs are. I just know that so many of us in the peer group and around the community were looking for a way to really help in a way that could be present. And so, if you couldn't be there to wrap your arms around them and hold them, that was the only other thing a lot of people were looking to do.

And so, I know they will be experiencing things much long after the cameras are gone. They really, really need some support to make sure they can see it through.

CUOMO: Corey, I think that is a point that really will bear repeating in the days, weeks, months ahead.

Corey Williams, Pastor Nik Baumgart, thank you for joining us.

As somebody who's experienced too many of these from the outside, it only begins when the media part ends. They're going to need you people there for them much more in days ahead. I know you will. It's a tight community.

Let us know what we can do. Thank you for joining us on NEW DAY.

BAUMGART: Thank you.

CUOMO: There's another headline we've been following this morning. A very developing story. A 5-year-old boy in New York City is being monitored for symptoms of Ebola. He is not being tested yet. He's evaluated, find out if he was near anybody with Ebola, watching his symptoms. We'll tell you more as we hear about it.

But on top of this is the fight about quarantines, fear of what happens when somebody has the virus is parking different decisions. Which are right, which are wrong? We'll discuss it. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)