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CDC Announces New Risk Levels for Ebola Exposure; Poll Shows Public Confidence in Federal Government to Control Ebola Spread; Quarantine Protocols of New Jersey and New York Challenged; Will Obama Hurt Democrats at the Polls?

Aired October 28, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, October 28th, 8:00 in the east. Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota and we begin with breaking news on the Ebola front. We've learned the Dallas nurse who became infected with Ebola treating Thomas Eric Duncan will be released this afternoon from Emory University Hospital in Atlanta. Amber Vinson, there she is, she was admitted October 15, and doctors say she is now free of the deadly disease.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Very good news. Meanwhile another nurse is back home today. Kaci Hickox is back in Maine after being released from that quarantine in the New Jersey hospital we showed you yesterday. She was released by Governor Chris Christie though he is sticking to his guns for his controversial quarantine position. This as the CDC issues more new guidelines outlining four different risk levels.

So we have full coverage this morning beginning with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Hi, Sanjay. So tell us about the risk levels and what's changed.

GUPTA: Well, this is getting a little bit more nuanced. It's not a one-sides-fits-all approach. The basic gist of it is they're categorizing people based on risk, based on how much intensive contact they had with someone who has Ebola. So high risk for example all the way down to no risk. And based on what your risk category is, it's going to more intensive in terms of your monitoring. If you're high risk you also may have some public activities restricted, some travel restricted. But I should point out no matter which category you fall into there's no mandatory quarantines as part of the CDC guidelines, and that's a point of distinction from what we've been hearing from some of the states.

CAMEROTA: And so Sanjay, we're putting up some graphics about just how to interpret all of these different risks. High risk means that you've had direct contact with the body fluids of someone who is infected, and low risk, it's very interesting. It doesn't mean you haven't been around somebody with Ebola. It means you haven't been around them when they're exhibiting symptoms. That's very important to clarify.

GUPTA: That's right. I think it's a fundamental point, Alisyn. We've talked about this before, but this idea that you're not transmitting the virus until you get sick. So even if you've been around somebody who has had Ebola but is not symptomatic at the time, you're considered low risk. And that's an important message to everyone else who worried about this in the United States in in terms of their own risk.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, thanks so much for explaining that. We'll talk more about it in the program. Great to see you.

GUPTA: You bet.

CUOMO: There are a lot of facets to the situation. There's no doubt the initial response to Ebola was bungled, but Americans still have confidence that the feds can prevent a large scale epidemic in the U.S., at least if you believe our new CNN/ORC poll. Let's get to White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski who joins us with the latest. There's a lot to be seen in the numbers here.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They do have some confidence, but in some areas. First of all, you see 54 percent of Americans think the federal government is doing a good job against Ebola. That is just over half, and the other half think the government is doing a poor job. But then you compare that to President Obama's approval rating. In this poll it's 45 percent, so you see substantially more people feel like the federal government is doing a good job against Ebola than think President Obama is doing a good job overall.

But you also see some big numbers in there, too. You mentioned one of them, more than 70 percent of people think that the federal government can stop an Ebola epidemic, and more than 70 percent think that, yes, the U.S. should be trying to stop the spread not only here in the U.S. but also in Africa, which the government is doing. So you see strong support there along the broad strokes of the government's goals.

When you see the numbers drop again, though, is when you look at the execution on a specific, more community-based scale, and you see 53 percent of people think that their own community health care services are prepared to deal with another Ebola patient. Chris?

CUOMO: Michelle, thank you very much for taking us through it.

Let's bring in Norman Siegel. He's a civil rights attorney. He's representing Kaci Hickox. She's the nurse released from quarantine in New Jersey. It's good to have you with us, counsel. She's become somewhat of a human flash point for what we do with quarantines. You've got Governor Chris Christie, a man who is not one to back down from situations looking at you. He's got you in his crosshairs. Take a listen to what he said about you on the "Today" show this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MATT LAUER, NBC HOST: Was she sent back to Maine because she no longer had a fever or symptoms or was she sent out to Maine because she went out and hired a talented lawyer like Norm Siegel and was threatening legal action against the state?

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, CNN ANCHOR: You used the word "talented," Matt, not me. And secondly, no, that had absolutely nothing to do with it. That's been the policy all along. If she never presented with any symptoms our policy would have been to send her back to Maine and to ask her to quarantine at home in Maine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Let's deal with the levity first. First, it's probably an honor to be insulted by someone at the level of Governor Christie. Do you represent Matt Lauer? Did he describe that way, a talented lawyer like that, do you have any relationship to him?

NORMAN SIEGEL, ATTORNEY FOR KACI HICKOX: No, I do not.

CUOMO: All right, that's good to know. Now, let's get to the heart of the matter. Your client, what we should care about most is how is she doing. Is she OK?

SIEGEL: Her spirits are relatively good. She is an incredible American. She's very bright, has an incredible smile. She has people skills. She has an important voice in this debate.

CUOMO: But is she sick?

SIEGEL: No.

CUOMO: Fever's gone?

SIEGEL: She never had the fever. One of the things people should recognize is that when they use this forehead scanner it's not reliable. Every time they gave her an oral thermometer from Friday through Sunday night when I was there, it's normal. So the policy that the governor of New Jersey adopted was based in my opinion on fear not on medical fact, and we have to focus on medical fact, not myths.

CUOMO: Is it his fault though when you look at what the basis was? If the screening which is set up from the feds how to test for the fever, if that's not accurate we should deal with that. But that's still going to be the basis people act on, right? That's the best judge we have as to whether or not there's a fever is the forehead scan.

SIEGEL: First, we shouldn't be using that scan. Second, historically in America, smallpox, tuberculosis, HIV/AIDS, the fear generated is very often faced on myth, and it's the government and leadership, the politicians who should be looking at the medical community to direct the policy. What happened last Friday, in my opinion, was some politicians decided to, for their own agenda, do something that when we grew up in Brooklyn we called it cockamamie. It just didn't make any sense. Hopefully they'll step back and begin to rethink it and look to the medical community for the leadership that's necessary.

CUOMO: No secret to you, I'm happy to disclose, my brother is one of the politicians the council is talking about, he's the governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo. And they have been forced, Christie not so willingly yet, to back off the position. They say that it is based, public record, on what they see as a continuing risk to public, as we see with the doctor who came back who is being treated right now in New York, that he was self-monitoring, and maybe he was out too much during a time when he shouldn't have been. There are legitimate questions raised. Those questions go away if the person is kept away from the rest of society. Isn't that erring on the side of caution or no?

SIEGEL: Well, no. I think it's easy to say I'm erring on the side of caution. What I want the governors and the president of the United States to do is to be correct and inform the public about what are the things you that they should be concerned about and what things they shouldn't be concerned about.

For example, in our case with Kaci, if it turns out her temperature is normal, she has no symptoms of the disease, there's no reason to be restricted. If there are symptoms then you deal with it differently. I'm not opposed to the fact that the government has the power to use quarantine. They just have to do it correctly, and so far they bungled it.

CUOMO: Look, there's no question, and you are far superior attorney than I ever was, there's no question about that, I'm no Matt Lauer but even I know that.

SIEGEL: Thank you.

CUOMO: Legally, the rationale is in place. The Supreme Court has been clear about it. I know you're not saying in is about the legal right. It's whether they have a right to do it the way they're doing it now, correct?

SIEGEL: In part. There should be a procedure, you should have a hearing. If someone is involuntarily committed --

CUOMO: Why a hearing in a situation like this?

SIEGEL: The government has the burden of proof to justify the infringement on your liberty interests because you're confining someone even for 21 days.

CUOMO: But the medical evidence will show once you're put into the quarantine. They maybe shouldn't have had her in the condition she was in the hospital. I felt for her just looking. If she had been in her own suite or if she had been allowed to be at home, and when they showed that she wasn't sick then it ends.

SIEGEL: I think that what happens, for someone who is involuntarily committed for mental health, in New York you have five days for hearing. So I'm not arguing you can't bring the person in if you have reasonable basis for bringing some person in, but you've got to set up a procedure where the person could have a hearing to dispute the government's allegation that you meet the criteria. And they have to look at the criteria and determine whether or not a quarantine is applicable across the board.

CUOMO: Right. Counterpoints -- one, I don't love the example of mental health, because as we know, this involuntary commitment thing doesn't work well. Those hearings are very tough. The burden of proof is on people to prove someone is --

SIEGEL: At least there is a hearing.

CUOMO: There is a process. But I don't love that example because we have so many problems with mental health, but point taken. Your problem with this argument is the 21-day period, that you don't know where, in those 21 days you may wind up becoming symptomatic. That's why you have to be held that long. If you have a procedure in place for any time short of that period, you may be creating risk.

SIEGEL: Well, from what I understand, I'm not a medical expert, but hypothetically if it on the 11th day you get the fever, the first 10 days that you are interacting with people, you're not putting them in harm's way, and that's what has to be articulated. The federal government and the state needs to do an incredible public education campaign so we, the people, understand what's real and what's not real. That's not happening today. And my client, Kaci, needs to be heard with regard to what her perspective is, and the health community needs to be listened to. The politicians should not be directing this issue.

CUOMO: So what's the action? You're going to sue?

SIEGEL: We're talking to her at 10:30 this morning. We have the option to go to the court of law, but we also have the option to participate in the court of public opinion to try to persuade health people across America that the way they were going last week is the wrong way. Maybe to go towards the way the CDC is going, but we have to even improve the CDC guidelines because they're not, in my opinion, clear enough.

CUOMO: As you know, we're happy to have the dialogue on NEW DAY, we're happy to test the points. Counsel, thanks for being with us.

SIEGEL: Good luck, thank you.

CUOMO: Thank you, to your client especially, and please extend the invitation to her as well.

SIEGEL: I will. Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Michaela, over to you.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris, 11 minutes past the hour. Here is a look at your headlines. We are now learning more about those final moments leading up to the deadly Washington high school shooting. The county sheriff says Jaylen Fryberg sent text messages to get his victims to sit at the same lunch table in the cafeteria. We're also learning that Fryberg sent a picture of himself with a gun to his ex-girlfriend shortly before the attack. Ahead we're going to speak with the superintendent of a Marysville school district and the local police chief. That will happen later this hour.

A federal judge has ruled the man who jumped the fence at the White House last week is not competent to stand trial. Dominic Adesanya was dragged screaming from the courtroom Monday after ranting at the judge. He was caught on camera punching, kicking two Secret Service dogs who eventually took him down. He will remain in custody for more psychiatric evaluation and treatment until his court appearance in December.

Police are using a new device to try and locate accused cop killer Eric Frein. The Ohio department of transportation donated a balloon of sorts with a camera inside. It will allow authorities to get pictures similar to the ones they get from a chopper but obviously at a lower cost and it allows for better views. The search for Frein remains focused in the eastern Pennsylvania woods. He has been on the run now for some 44 days.

A security breach involving a world leader causing all sorts of concern. Dean Farley prompted a massive security alert Monday in England when he bumped into British Prime Minister David Cameron. Farley for his part says he was going for a daily run, didn't even know who he literally ran into until police arrested him. Cameron was quickly driven from the scene following that encounter. Officials in England now say they are now examining their security procedures. There has been a fair amount of controversy and criticism leveled at those procedures if they could allow something even if that was an accident for that to happen.

CAMEROTA: Does his daily run involve running through traffic like that? It seems suspicious that's his jogging route.

CUOMO: Nothing unique about that, but nothing controversial about the security procedures if they fail. Can't let somebody of any kind of caliber get anywhere close to somebody you're protecting, not in today's day and age.

So another type dangerous situation I guess you could call it, the campaign battles, they are heating up with the midterm elections just a week away. What surprising new strategy are Democrats deploying to keep control of the Senate? We'll tell you about it when our panel weighs in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

Midterm elections just a week away, contain your enthusiasm.

CAMEROTA: I have heard that.

CUOMO: Democrats are looking to retain control of the Senate. They seem to think distancing themselves from the president is the best strategy to do that. Is that good idea? Bad idea? Sad commentary? Does it make a difference?

Let's discuss this and more with our political panel: Ms. Ana Navarro, CNN political commentator and Republican strategist, and Mr. Van Jones, CNN political contributor.

I was going to start with the poll, but you know what? I'll hold on it and ask the obvious question to you, Van -- why are you running away from the president? How can that be a good strategy? What kind of Democrats are you? You're Democants.

(LAUGHTER)

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, most of the elections are being held in deep red state territory being run on places where Romney did very, very well.

Situation like that, there's really no reason to bring in the president of the United States. They want to talk about Obama. We should be talking about minimum wage and they are. They're talking about Obama, we're talking about student loans. They talk about Obama, we talk about reproductive rights for women.

That's appropriate thing to do, period, for the party certainly in deep red states.

CAMEROTA: Why not use the president, Van, to talk about some of those things?

JONES: Because he's not popular in the places. Where is he popular, he's on the radio and he's doing things where he is popular.

Listen, this is politics. This is math. If the president's going to help your numbers, you use him. If he's not, you don't use him. That's pure politics.

CUOMO: All right. So, let's look at the poll.

Ana, your team wants this to be a referendum on all things Obama, but, you know, put up the poll there. Your congressional vote this year will send a message of, dot dot dot. Look at those numbers -- not sending a message at all, 54 percent. This isn't a referendum. Now what?

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There is no doubt and I live in a purple state and I can tell you that Van is wrong. Right now, President Obama is popular in Van's household and maybe in his own house old. But other than that, it's not just deep red states. I live in Florida, a purple state.

New Hampshire, the senator there said in a debate on CNN, no, he doesn't need to come here.

You've got places like Iowa. These are purple states. These are places where there are Democrat incumbents that Obama is just not welcome in. He is an albatross around their neck.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Why, sorry I had to interrupt, I'm just curious, though, that why when the economy is doing better, gas prices have plummeted, his signature policy Obamacare after the disastrous rollout, is doing better. Why is he so radioactive?

NAVARRO: You know, I think part of it is a narrative. Part of it is because when your own partisans start running away from you, when you have a candidate in Kentucky who will stutter on TV, look like deer caught in the headlights and not even be able to say she voted for him, then, you know, he becomes that much more toxic because people are following the narrative.

But I think there's also a lot of distress right now and dissatisfaction with his leadership style when it comes to some of these crises like ISIS, like Ebola and what his leadership style is, and people are in a bad mood out there.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Yes, the question is, why? The question is why, though, Ana?

Let me get you in here, Van, but I want to tee it up with a poll. The way things are going in the country today, very somewhat angry, very somewhat scared -- 68 percent and 60 percent. The numbers are so scary, they won't put them on the screen. Here they are.

Very scary numbers, Van. And the question to you is, who is making it so scary out there -- reality or your friends, the Republicans?

JONES: Well, first of all, I think it's both, but let me take a quick step back. We're acting like no president in the sixth year of his term has ever struggled in the midterms. In fact, that is the norm. What you're seeing is the norm.

The only time you saw a reversal on that was Bill Clinton after the Republicans overreached on the whole impeachment, Lewinsky things. This is normal. It's normal when you have the table set mostly in red states to have this.

Now, that's the past. The present, look, it is scary out there. You do have Ebola. You do have ISIS, you do have economic recovery that has not had enough jobs baked into it. So, people are dissatisfied.

But the Republicans made the situation worse by not standing with this president even in the middle of foreign policy crises, even in the middle of a potential global pandemic and when you have an obstruction economy, not an Obama economy, he hasn't been able to pass a bill to help the economy. You have an obstruction economy, sometimes people take it out on the president.

But it's divided government. Both parties are responsible. And unfortunately, it's usually holding the president responsible at this point in his career.

CAMEROTA: Ana, you mentioned leadership and Ebola. We want to play for you something that Governor Chris Christie just said this morning in response to people questioning his leadership with putting that nurse into an isolation tent. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: When they're in direct contact with people actively with the Ebola virus, asking them to quarantine at home for 21 days, unless they're symptomatic, I don't think is draconian and I think Dr. Fauci is responding unfortunately as are many people from the CDC, in a really hyperbolic way because they've been wrong before and they're incrementally taking steps towards the policy that we put in effect in New Jersey and now, six other states put into effect and the joint chiefs of staff had put in effect.

I mean, we're all wrong and they're right, Matt? We're trying to be careful here. This is common sense, and the members of the American public believe it is common sense, and we're not moving an inch. Our policy hasn't changed and our policy will not change.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, Ana, are federal officials, is the president more to blame here for the muddled response or is it state officials? I mean, you heard what Chris Christie said. He's not changing an inch for his policy.

NAVARRO: You have a Governor Christie and a Governor Cuomo who have one duty and one job -- that's to keep their citizens safe. And I think the government agencies, the national agencies were very slow to act and to really develop and implement and share with the states some national guidelines on how to deal with quarantine, on how to deal with Ebola.

There were no national guidelines. We've been hearing that from the nurses, for example, that there were no national protocols on how to put on and take off the hazmats.

So, yes, they've been very slow on that, which means that states have had to be taking their own decisions, making their own decisions on how to deal with the issues. And I think when they saw one doctor who had maybe been out too much, they reacted quite strongly with somebody that hadn't.

CUOMO: You know what, though, Ana? I got to tell you -- I think that when you look at the policies, they smell a little bit of political opportunism, both on behalf of the governor of New York, my brother, and Chris Christie, the governor of New Jersey.

But the question is, why was that opportunity available, Van? You know, why wasn't the fed more aggressive? Is it fair to use Ebola as an example of the lack of the White House getting in front of where it needs to be?

JONES: Well, first of all, we have to be clear -- the CDC in our country does not run every hospital in the United States. First of all, they did have guidance and the guidance has improved as they've gone forward. This is the first time we've had something like this hit our health care system. You have to make adjustments. That's important.

Can I just say a couple things about these governors? I am very disappointed in both of them. The real response is to lean forward into this and say, I'm the governor of New York. I want 100 or 500 or 1,000 health care workers to volunteer. We'll send the health care workers to stop Ebola in West Africa.

The problem now is that these governors have gone the other direction. They are punishing heroes. They are punishing American heroes who go over to stop Ebola there. The only way we're going to win is beat it there.

These governors should be standing with the health care workers, actually inviting more saying if it you go, I'm going to stand next to you when you come home and make sure that you're well.

But we need more leadership to invite more health care workers to go and both governors have gone the wrong way on this. I'm disappointed.

CAMEROTA: That sounds good, Van, but of course they have public safety to worry about it. And public --

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: And that is the way you get to public safety, the way you get to public safety we beat it over there.

And right now, you have doctors who refuse to go because they're afraid that our leaders, our governors are going to attack them when they get home and that is dangerous for the world.

It is dangerous for New York. It is dangerous for New Jersey. It is absolutely the wrong way to go, and I'm disappointed. They are making America less safe, not more safe with these stunts.

NAVARRO: Van, that sounds all very nice and pretty. But, you know --

JONES: It's not nice and pretty. That's a fact. That's facts.

NAVARRO: There is a public safety aspect here and you know, if they did a good job of self-quarantining and we felt safe then, I think we'd be OK with it, all of us. When that didn't happen, I think it raised concerns.

So, I think -- I think the health care worker community that's coming back, has got to work in cooperation with the state and national government agencies --

JONES: I agree with that.

NAVARRO: -- on how to self-quarantine and what the standards should be and they have to work together, not against each other.

JONES: I agree with that. CAMEROTA: All right. We'll leave it there, Van Jones, Ana Navarro, thanks for the debate.

It looks like the fed and state are trying to get on the same page today at least.

CUOMO: We'll see.

The truth is you've got to do both. You have to fight it over there or you'll have more cases here, and you have to take care of the situation as it lies on the ground here. You have to do both. You can't just do one.

CAMEROTA: Another important story today, more heartache as new details emerge on the deadly school shooting at a Washington state high school. So, we're going to get the latest from the school superintendent and local police chief.

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