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Is Nurse Right to Resist Quarantine?; Interview with Rep. Tim Murphy; Terrorists May Have Survived Airstrikes; Russia Violating Other Countries' Airspace

Aired October 30, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: But I also want to talk to some of the doctors that were there, including Dr. Kent Brantly, I remember, and ask them specifically, drill down on this issue of what is it like when you get back? What's the rationale for quarantine? We talked about Dr. Craig Spencer.

Take a listen to Dr. Brantly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. KENT BRANTLY, RECOVERED FROM EBOLA: I think the important thing to remember is that people, even who have been exposed to Ebola, do not transmit the disease, they don't shed the virus until they're febrile and symptomatic.

I think Dr. Spencer was making -- I think ultimately, he did what was right. How he was feeling those two days, I don't -- I don't know that I can even put myself in his shoes. My situation was totally different.

GUPTA: I ask because I think it's one of those areas as a doctor myself that's a little bit gray, right? I mean, it's not a binary thing. You don't suddenly become infectious at a particular minute of a particular hour. But if someone was feeling sluggish after having done this work, this is the question people are asking. He's unlikely to have transmitted the virus, but just out of abundance of caution, this term that gets thrown around a lot, should he have just basically stayed away from people?

BRANTLY: Again, I'll say I think Dr. Spencer did the right thing. I think those who come after him will be even more cautious, because they've seen the response that happened when he was following those guidelines that were in place for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: I think that was really interesting, because he's sort of saying, "Look, the science doesn't support the fact that Dr. Spencer was going to get other people sick. But people are scared. Let's not completely dismiss those fears. Because that's a problem, as well."

So he said people are likely to be more cautious. But he didn't say that he supports quarantines. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this is exactly the conundrum that

Kaci Hickox, the nurse in Maine, is facing this morning. She doesn't want to be self-quarantined for 21 days inside the house. What do you make of it?

GUPTA: She's made that -- she's made that very, very clear. You know, I think that her parent organization, the Doctors Without Borders, say she doesn't need to be quarantined. The Centers for Disease Control doesn't say she doesn't need to be quarantined.

I want to show you an image, a picture that I took when I was at the White House yesterday I think sort of makes this interesting case. It's sort of a -- I don't know if we have the image. But it's a split -- split sort of dichotomy that you're seeing.

So on the left side you see these doctors who have just come back from West Africa. They're within the 21-day period. They are at the White House with the president of the United States. On the right, you have Kaci Hickox, who fits that same profile: came back within the last 21 days, does not have any symptoms. She's facing mandatory quarantine. That is what America looks like right now...

CAMEROTA: Wow.

GUPTA: ... when people think about how we're dealing with Ebola. It's unbelievable. You're at the White House with the president, mandatory quarantine. They fit the same profile.

CAMEROTA: Stark contrast there, and there are two different options for how to handle people. That's really telling.

GUPTA: Yes. And then the states, you know, different states, depending on what state you live in, you could be treated completely differently.

CAMEROTA: All right. Sanjay, thanks so much for all the information and your perspective. Always great to have you here.

GUPTA: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk more about this with Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Sanjay seems to have completely isolated the problem. We don't know what we're doing. So let's try to get some more now on what the direction forward is when it comes to an Ebola quarantine.

This Maine nurse refusing to abide by a state order to remain in isolation for 21 days has become somewhat of a flashpoint. Officials believe the law is on their side. They may well be right. And they think they can keep Kaci Hickox confined. L

So let's listen to the nurse's reaction to understand the state of play.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KACI HICKOX, QUARANTINED NURSE: We have been in negotiations all day with the state of Maine and tried to resolve this amicably. But they will not allow me to leave my house and have any interaction with the public, even though I am completely healthy and symptom-free.

I am frustrated by this fact, and I have been told that the attorney general's intention is to file legal action against me. And if this does occur, then I will challenge those legal actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. So that's the nurse.

Let's bring in Congressman Tim Murphy. He is the chairman of the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations. He is calling for a mandatory 21-day quarantine for any healthcare worker who treats Ebola patients and then returns to the U.S.

Congressman, thank you for joining us this morning to test the situation. Do you have the legal right? Federal? No. But state? Yes. Is it right to do? That's the question. Why is this the right thing to do when science tells you it is unnecessary?

REP. TIM MURPHY (R), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, let's look at what we know and what we don't know. A person who has not been exposed to someone with Ebola, there's virtually no chance you're going to get it. A person who has been exposed to a patient with Ebola increases that risk. Many have gotten sick; many have died. And in several cases, not quite clear of the exact route of that.

Now, it doesn't mean that a person who is totally asymptomatic has no chance whatsoever of transmitting something.

And what has happened here in the last few weeks is the CDC has sent out guidelines that they had to walk back on. Some are confusing, regarding exposure risks, the kind of equipment you should be wearing. They said that any hospital could handle this. And still we have a situation where there's no cure; there's no vaccine.

And so what governors have responded to is -- says look, this is still ambiguous; there's mixed messages coming out of Washington, how to handle this. So their first goal is to make sure they protect the health of residents of their state.

CUOMO: Right.

MURPHY: The other part of this is we're still not ready. Hospitals around the United States, very few, less than a handful, have the ability to treat Ebola patients, and it can overwhelm other hospitals at this point. We also don't have mechanisms to transport Ebola patients through air, et cetera. So because those things are still existing, this issue is still evolving.

CUOMO: Leadership hasn't been great on it. That's -- that's probably clear. Why aren't you focusing on your second issue? That one matters. Are hospitals ready? Is there enough oversight? Are you doing the right precautionary measures, testing it, vetting it? I think that's real. I think that's helpful.

But when you're dealing with a quarantine, isn't it just pandering, that people are afraid; there was political opportunity here to exploit that fear? And now you're dealing with something, even though no one in the medical field believes that it's worthwhile. Because while you are exposed to Ebola patients and therefore at risk, that's true. But you're dealing about when people are a risk to others.

And even Ms. Hickox, she can't get anybody sick like that Mr. Duncan, may he rest in peace. Those people who were in the house with him when he was sick as hell, none of them got sick.

MURPHY: Well, what we have to make sure is we're also not dealing with this emotionally. And that's a great question you're asking, Chris. What I believe is the first thing you do while we're still learning, and while we still don't have the facilities, you start with a stronger perimeter of defense. Then you make case-by-case rulings on this as it goes through.

Are we reaching that level? Perhaps, where people can make that determination.

Now by quarantine, you don't have someone sealed in a plastic bubble and with no contact whatsoever. You can do also a lot of monitoring and some levels of isolations. But you also look at hospitals at this point. They are not -- they do not want the doctors and nurses who have recently been in Africa treating -- coming back and treating patients at their hospitals right away. So they're doing other kind of job restrictions to go with this, too.

But again, let's look at these now on a case by case basis. Are we ready, are regions ready, are states ready? And let's focus on making sure we follow in an area where there still is a great deal of uncertainty.

CUOMO: So why don't you just leave the quarantine issue alone? You know, why is that the headline this morning? I brought you on here to talk about what you want for a 21-day mandatory quarantine. Why not ignore that, seeing how it's not a practical problem in our society right now, but preparedness is?

And certainly, given the relative lack of commitment that we and other countries have shown to West Africa, we will see more cases here, because we're not stopping it where it is emanating from.

MURPHY: Well you're asking several things here. First of all, we have a strong commitment to help Africa. Right now, it's all...

CUOMO: We need more, though, Congressman. You know we need a lot more.

MURPHY: Absolutely. And I -- and I believe we're all committed to do that. We should be sending lots of supplies, do everything we can. Because that's where it has to be contained.

But this virus, you only break the chain of its movement by having some levels of isolation.

I'm not focusing only on the quarantine. I sent the president nine different recommendations. Some of those are already taking place. We still have a long way to go. We're speeding up vaccine research. We are moving forward in trying to identify more hospitals. We're moving forward, but not there yet with transport mechanisms.

But in the meantime, I think one should move with an abundance of safety. Like the military is doing that, too. Let's be careful as we move forward. You can always walk it back, but you can't rebuild these things once it has spread.

This is not any kind of personal or emotional attack on anybody at all. This is saying, our first issue is here is do no harm. Protect public health. Let's review each case. That is something the CDC is also recommending, as well. But in case before when they said the personal protective gear was fine. That turned out not to be true.

CUOMO: True. True.

MURPHY: And just because -- so I say we have a lot of intensive work to do in this. We should not let up in any way. And let's review this as it has to do with the spread of a disease.

CUOMO: Worried about the chilling effect that you're going to have on people who would have volunteered and now won't, because they don't want to be subject to a quarantine?

MURPHY: Well, look, programs like Samaritan's Purse have had this program in place for a while where you restrict the movements for 21 days afterward.

When I talk to hospitals they say they don't want that doctor or nurse coming back on board to their medical staff for full active duties for 21 days.

The issue with regard to getting enough doctors and nurses into Ebola countries is hard enough in itself. And we need to get more people there and encourage them. But we also have to make sure that this other issue, and doctors and nurses understand this that I talk to. They say, "Look, we don't want to increase risks to the community. Let's be cautious. Let's have an abundance of caution. Let's move on this. But let's not make this an emotional issue that we're being unfair to someone. That's not it at all.

We also have to be fair to the citizens of the United States in making sure we're very careful with this. Review each person carefully, individually. See what kind of exposure they've had. Let's not make blanket statements and says all should be allowed until some symptoms appear. Or, quite frankly, I'm also not saying no one should be allowed. But we should have caution as we proceed.

CUOMO: Congressman Tim Murphy. You know, given the controversy, the job is to test the position. Thank you for allowing us to do that on NEW DAY.

MURPHY: Thank you.

CUOMO: Mick, over to you.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris. Thanks so much. Ten minutes past the hour, here's a look at your headlines.

Rebel leaders say more than half of Kobani is now under the control of ISIS extremists, even though hundreds of Kurdish fighters have been sent in to defend the town. U.S.-led air strikes apparently -- seemingly, rather, unable to drive ISIS militants out. Complete control of Kobani would give the terrorists a key strategic corridor along that Syria/Turkey border.

A government official in Sri Lanka does not believe that researchers -- or searchers, rather, will find any survivors following a mudslide burying a tea plantation in the central part of that nation. Monsoon rains caused yesterday's disaster. It destroyed 120 homes on that tea plantation. Officials believe about 100 people were killed. But villagers say the number of the dead could, in actuality, be twice as high. We'll keep an eye on that for you.

This morning, investigators from NASA and the firm Orbital Sciences are assessing the damage after this -- the unmanned rocket exploded seconds after launch Tuesday night in Virginia. Officials right now are urging the public to stay away from any rocket debris. Workers are being kept from the blast site as well. The $200 million rocket and spacecraft was carrying some 5,000 pounds of food, supplies, and science experiments and equipment to the International Space Station.

Here's another discovery to tell you about. This is kind of cool. Imagine stumbling upon this, a Colombian mammoth skull and tusks uncovered in Idaho. Experts say a rare entire skeleton could very well be buried there below the surface. They're hoping it might even be intact.

It was discovered earlier this month by a fossil hunter, partially excavated meticulously by college students at Idaho State University. Talk about field experience: And get this: experts believe this mammoth is between 70,000 and 120,000 years old.

The hope is next year, they can bring some high-tech tools in to get a better idea of what's underneath the surface. This could be really quite a discovery.

CAMEROTA: Wow. That is cool.

PEREIRA: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Thanks Michaela.

CAMEROTA: All right. Is a terrorist attack imminent in the U.S.? High-profile terrorists targeted by U.S. airstrikes in Syria have survived the assault. Now, why homeland security officials are concerned that they could be plotting against America.

CUOMO: Plus, Russian aggression not seen since the Cold War. Dozens of military aircraft flying out of bounds throughout Europe and putting NATO on high alert. What is Vladimir Putin up to?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Here's the question this morning: What went wrong with the first wave of U.S. airstrikes in Syria? Remember 47 Tomahawk missiles were used. They were supposed to take out two dangerous Khorasan terrorists with a grudge against the U.S.

Now CNN has learned from intelligence sources the men, likely still alive and could be plotting an attack on the U.S. right now.

Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, is here with more details.

Barbara, I don't think we're overstating. I mean, that was the big headline out of that. That that's why it was done. And now, how did they get it so wrong?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

Well, I got to tell you, our own Pamela Brown and myself all day yesterday being told the same thing by administration officials. They now are working on the belief that both men survived the attack.

Here's what they don't know. Were they never there to begin with? Or did the Tomahawk missiles just miss them and they are alive, possibly injured somewhere?

Two men, two names to remember: Muhsin al-Fadhli, the leader of Khorasan group, and David Drugeon, a French jihadist with them. Why is this so important if both these men are still alive? The Khorasan group are really, in reality a bunch of al Qaeda operatives from Pakistan. They want to attack the United States.

Drugeon in particular has expertise in bomb-making. He can run jihadists in and out of Syria, back to Europe, back to the United States. And what the Khorasan group wants to do is build those bombs that can get past possibly airport screening. Bombs with no metal content. That is the big worry; that's why this is such a problem. The Khorasan group still, the U.S. says, poses an imminent threat to the U.S. -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Barbara, thanks so much.

We want to talk more about that, plus this warning from NATO to Russia to stop flying into the air space of other countries. Over a 24-hour period, ending just yesterday, NATO nations documented at least 19 instances of Russian planes flying in European skies, and multiple countries had to scramble jets to respond. NATO says this year alone, intercepts of Russian aircraft are up more than 300 percent. So what is Moscow up to?

Let's bring in General Mark Hertling. He's a CNN military analyst and a retired Army former commanding general for Europe and the 7th Army.

General, great to see you.

GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's start with Barbara Starr's reporting. What is happening with these Khorasan leaders?

HERTLING: Well, I think in the first strike in Syria, we may have or we may not have had the best of intelligence. And again, it's something we've talked about several times.

You have to have confirming intelligence for overhead platforms. You have to have someone on the ground. And sometimes, truthfully, people move right before a strike, and it takes a little bit of a while for the missile to get there. So I think, you know, as the Pentagon is conducting the post analysis of this event, they're finding some things that they might not have had a perfect targeting execution.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but of course, leaving people alive to survive and fight another day...

HERTLING: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... is even more troubling than had the U.S. not tried to hit them to begin with.

HERTLING: It is indeed. And one of the things that you have to consider, too, is even had we struck against the leaders of the Khorasan organization, the organization is still going to be somewhat intact. Even though they don't have the leaders we found fighting al Qaeda, they replaced their leaders very quickly. And there still is the threat of these nonmetallic bomb systems.

So I think we're continuing to fight this effort. And, you know, as we've said so many times before, this is going to be a long war.

CAMEROTA: OK. We want to move on to what Russia is doing this week. There have been 19 instances of Russian aircraft flying over European air space just this week alone. What is happening there?

HERTLING: Well, what I say is those 19 incidents were just yesterday, Wednesday. They've -- NATO has observed over 100 scrambles against Russian incursions into NATO territory. There have been several NATO jets flying, U.K., Norway, Denmark, several others that have intercepted bombers, fighters, tankers, all sorts of Russian airplanes.

And the things that they're doing are just things that good nations don't do. They're turning off their transponders while in flight. They're not filing flight planes. Those are all the things that are very concerning, Alisyn, and it's things that the allied air command in Ramstein, Germany, is monitoring that closely. This is something that a good nation doesn't do.

CAMEROTA: So -- right. So what is Putin up to? What's the end game here?

HERTLING: Well, yes, and can't just take -- by the way, what's Putin up to, is I think he's doing a couple things. You know, I think it was Winston Churchill said Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

We're not sure exactly what he's trying to do, but in fact, he's attempting to intimidate the west. He doesn't like the sanctions. We can't just take these air incursions all by themselves, too. We've seen ground incursions in some of the Baltic states. Estonia, Latvia have reported that. We've seen the Swedish sub incident, which we really don't know what occurred there. Hackers at the White House, is that Russian influence or not?

And not trying to drum up concern about Russia writ large, but I think this is Mr. Putin saying, "Hey, we've suffered some economic sanctions." For his own public consumption, he's saying, "We're still powerful." That's a very important part in whatever he does. But it's also saying to the west, "Hey, we're still standing up against you."

CAMEROTA: You have spent a lot of time in that region, and you have contacts still in that region. I know you speak to the leaders of countries around there. What is their feeling about what Putin is doing and how NATO should respond?

HERTLING: Yes. In fact, I'm going to Ukraine in a couple of weeks. And what you see when you talk to the leadership in Georgia and Poland and Estonia, in Ukraine, they keep telling me, "See? We told you so when you were over here."

And we knew this. And I think any leader, any military leader, any diplomatic leader has to -- has to treat Russian with a great -- Russia with a great deal of kid gloves, because they do strange things sometimes. And you have to look at it from the appeal of their culture.

They have been intimidated by the west. They have been intimidated by many of their former Warsaw pact countries joining NATO. And I think that's all part of the equation.

So you just not only have to look at it from what the NATO interest is and what the European interest is, but also what the Russian interest is. And these sanctions against Russia are incredibly damaging to them. And I think this is an attempt of Putin to push back on those.

CAMEROTA: OK. We only have a few more seconds. So then what is the answer, if not sanctions?

HERTLING: Well, I think we continue to do what we're doing. We continue to send up responses and jets when they interfere in NATO air space. We continue with the sanctions. We keep a close look on what's going on in Ukraine. Ukraine had their elections earlier this week, and we continue to try and help the new government there to undergo their procedures toward a representative form of government. And we don't allow Russia to intimidate. That's the key. We do not allow them to intimidate the west.

CAMEROTA: OK. Great to get your insight, General Mark Hertling. Great to see you.

HERTLING: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's go to Chris.

CUOMO: Sit down and shut up. There's very few times that is deemed OK to say. Was this one of them?

When New Jersey Governor Chris Christie took on a protester, he certainly wound up giving the guy more attention than he ever imagined he'd get. A window into the intensity in the ongoing campaigns, mid- terms just five days away. John King, host of CNN's "INSIDE POLITICS," joins us with why so many races are still up for grabs.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Here's a look at your headlines at 27 minutes past the hour.

Nurse Kaci Hickox says she is completely healthy with no sign or symptoms of Ebola and will challenge any legal action by the state of Maine to keep her holed up at home until the end of a three-week quarantine. Hickox says she's tested negative for Ebola twice since her return from treating infected patients in West Africa.

State officials in Maine, meanwhile, are trying for a court order to enforce her isolation.

We are seeing more pictures of North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un. Remember, he was out of the public eye for weeks with very little explanation. South Korean intelligence says he had a painful ankle cyst removed. A couple of reportedly recent photos show him overseeing a flight drill, however, still using a cane.

An update now, Brittany Maynard, the 29-year-old with terminal brain cancer, is saying now that time -- that now is not the time to die. In an emotional video released to CNN, she says November 1, the initial date she set to end her life, is too soon. She says there's too much joy in her life right now. But a decision will come soon, because she is getting sicker by the day.

Maynard is choosing to die by taking medication under Oregon's Death with Dignity Act.

I just had to revel in this for one second. Look at that joy on that man's face. The San Francisco Giants are World Series champs, beating the Kansas City Royals 3-2 in a decisive seventh game. The third championship in the past five years. You could barely see for all the champagne. Left-hander Mad Bum, or Madison Bumgarner tossing five scoreless innings in relief to pick up the win, his third of the series. He was also named World Series MVP.

CUOMO: May be the best pitcher in World Series history. Mad Bum.

PEREIRA: Mad -- look, he probably got teased as a kid. Right? Who doesn't get teased for their name or their hair, whatever?

CUOMO: Not no more. PEREIRA: No more.

CUOMO: I'll tell you what. Game seven made it much more interesting, and that's exactly where we are with the mid-term elections. It's actually a legit segue. There's so many races that are so close.

Let's bring in John King to get "Inside Politics" on NEW DAY. He's in Manchester, New Hampshire, this morning. That could also be a surprise situation.

Let's see with what may or may not be a surprise but certainly a metaphor for how intense the elections are, John. Your man, Governor Chris Christie, in New Jersey. Let's play what happened when he was confronted with a protester about something that he cares a lot about: Hurricane Sandy relief. He does not like getting criticized about it, and that's exactly what happened. Take a look.