Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Nurse in Maine Quarantined for Ebola may Leave Quarantine; Legal Ramifications of Quarantine Discussed; Iowa Senate Race: A 2016 Battleground?

Aired October 30, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Resisting quarantine, a Maine nurse fighting officials forcing her to self-quarantine at home. Police now stationed outside her home, as President Obama blasts the quarantines, saying they're based on fear, not fact.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And new details, what caused a NASA rocket's spectacular explosion seconds after takeoff. We sift through the clues as investigators dig for a cause. Are decades old engines to blame?

And a woman's viral video reaches fever pitch, capturing dozens of cat calls as she walks through the streets of New York. What it reveals about the true nature of street harassment and the threats that she's now getting.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY continues right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning, welcome back to NEW DAY this Thursday, October 30th, just after 8:00 in the morning. Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota here. And nurse Kaci Hickox says she is done being bullied in quarantine even as state officials in Maine seek a court order to keep her isolated at home until the end of a three-week isolation period.

CAMEROTA: Hickox says she has no symptoms and that she has tested negative twice for Ebola since returning from West Africa. She plans to take legal action to keep from being held up at home. Our coverage this begins with CNN's Jean Casarez in Kent, Maine. What's the latest there, Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. You know, this is a small town community. It is on the northern part of Maine, right next to the Canadian border. But all eyes this morning are focused on the house behind me because Kaci Hickox remains voluntarily quarantined in their house on her own accord, but she has said she's going to leave. And if she does that today, that means everybody may end up in court.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KACI HICKOX, QUARANTINE NURSE: It is not my intention to put anyone at risk in this community.

CASAREZ: Just steps away from the front porch Wednesday night, quarantined nurse, Kaci Hickox addressed reporters, thankful to be home but opposed to being forced to stay indoors. State officials are demanding Hickox abide by their 21-day quarantine.

HICKOX: We have been in negotiations all day with the state of Maine and tried to revolve this amicably, but they will not allow me to leave my house and have any interaction with the public, even though I am completely healthy and symptom free.

CASAREZ: Hickox was released Monday from isolation inside this tent in New Jersey after treating patients in West Africa, then allowed to return to her boyfriend's here in Fort Kent, Maine, state troopers standing guard outside.

STEVEN HYMAN, LAWYER FOR QUARANTINED NURSE: The governor is merely pandering to the fear that exists that supposedly she's contagious. She has a right to live her life.

CASAREZ: Hickox tested negative for Ebola twice, but that is not stopping state officials from seeking a court order to mandate quarantine for a full 21 days.

MARY MAYHEW, MAINE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We feel strongly about the protocol that we've established and we have grave concerns about the lack of leadership at the federal level.

CASAREZ: The state says Hickox is required to remain isolated at home until November 10th, but she says she's not planning on it.

HICKOX: And I have been told that the attorney general's intention is to file legal action against me. And if this does occur, then I will challenge those legal actions.

CASAREZ: Some residents in Fort Kent say they have nothing to fear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If it's only transferred by bodily fluids, I guess we don't have anything to worry about if we don't come into contact.

CASAREZ: But others are not so sure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She comes here and she does that, you know, I don't want to bring it home.

CASAREZ: On Wednesday, Hickox wouldn't say if she would defy the mandate by leaving the house.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: And the local police chief told me that at the local hospital here that some have actually canceled their day surgery appointments or their doctor's appointments at the hospital, believing she might go to work. But some residents say she's not contagious, she doesn't have Ebola, we want her to come out in the community. But, Chris, there are a lot of people here that just don't take well to this because they want to respect the state of Maine. If they determine under their state laws and public health laws that there should be that 21-day quarantine, you respect the state you live in, they say.

CUOMO: Jean, the question is, is it about facts or fear? And it's going to continue as a debate we're seeing at the highest level. The president, he is saying quarantine measures are about pandering, not practicality. Instead, the commander in chief says health care workers fighting Ebola abroad should be treated as heroes. Now, he's further distancing himself from other politicians who want workers quarantined as soon as they return home.

Let's go CNN's White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski joining us live with more. Michelle, they're telling the president you need to lead more, you need to lead more. Then he leads and they don't like where he's leading them.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's been twice in two days now we heard the president speak on Ebola. This last time he was flanked by Ebola survivor Kent Brantly, those who treated nurse Nina Pham, health care workers who are about to go to Africa and battle this disease there, and some who are just returning, including some who are still within that 21-day monitoring period.

We've heard the White House use strong words over the last couple of days, but they will not openly criticize the states or now the Pentagon for going above and beyond the CDC guidelines, the guidelines that the White House says are the ones that are based in science and fact. The president said these health care workers who are returning need to be treated like American heroes and that it's because of them that Ebola will ultimately be stopped.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's because we don't run and hide when there's a problem, because we don't react to our fears, but instead we respond with common sense and skill and courage. That's the best of our history. Not fear, not hysteria, not misinformation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: And the White House has been asked repeatedly, don't you disagree with what the states and Pentagon are doing? And doesn't this show a lack of overall coordination? The White House says no. They say states have the authority to do what they need to do to keep their people safe. They said in the case of the Pentagon, these are thousands of people who will be coming back from the hot zone even though they will not be treating patients. The White House says it's more efficient to quarantine them all in one place. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Michelle Kosinski, thanks so much for that background.

So this morning, as you've heard, Maine nurse Kaci Hickox is vowing to defy a state order to remain quarantined at home. She says she has tested negative for Ebola twice since returning from West Africa. Listen to Hickox vowing to fight all efforts to keep her in isolation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HICKOX: We have been in negotiations all day with the state of Maine and tried to revolve this amicably, but they will not allow me to leave my house and have interaction with the public even though I am completely healthy and symptom free. I am frustrated by this fact, and I have been told that the attorney general's intention is to file legal action against me. And if this does occur, then I will challenge those legal actions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us to discuss all this is Kaci Hickox's attorney Norman Siegel and CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent Sanjay Gupta. Gentlemen, great to have you here. What is Kaci's plan today?

NORMAN SIEGEL, ATTORNEY, NURSE QUARANTINED IN MAINE: First, I want to say in the opening, there is no court order yet. And so saying she's defying the order is not accurate. She could walk out today, and maybe she will walk down the road with her boyfriend. And if they try to arrest her, that would be illegal. If they get the court order, under Maine law, we have three day, so probably next Wednesday because Tuesday is a holiday, and we intend to fly up to Maine to challenge it.

CAMEROTA: To challenge it.

SIEGEL: We have three days to challenge it.

CAMEROTA: Is she planning to go to work today?

SIEGEL: Well, at 8:30 this morning we're having a conference call to discuss her options and what the consequences would be, so at this point I could just tell you last night she came out of her house. And the question was, would they arrest her last night. They did not. I think that would make sense. I would hope the government officials in Maine have a reasonable, open mind about what's going on and let's not have any exacerbations of the tensions that already exist.

CAMEROTA: Because there are state troopers around her house.

SIEGEL: Troopers yesterday, but they say they're there for her safety and security. I don't believe that. But at this point the worst thing would be is she steps out in the next hour and they try to put handcuffs on her. I sincerely hope that never occurs. If we're going to have a disagreement, let's have the disagreement in a court of law, not out on the streets of Maine.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, before I bring you in, I want to read the governor of Maine's statement about all of this. He has said "This individual," meaning Kaci Hickox, "has stated publicly she will not abide by the protocols. We are exploring all of our options for protecting the health and well-being of the health care worker, anyone who comes into contact with her, the Fort Kent community, and all of Maine." He says he's protecting the public health. What's your response, Mr. Siegel?

SIEGEL: I think that that is not accurate. I think it is a statement based on myths about the disease and also about fear of the disease. There's absolutely no justification for the state of Maine to quarantine Kaci. She doesn't have the symptoms. And the medical community continues to tell us that as long as she doesn't have the symptoms, she's not at risk with being contagious to the people of Maine. So Mr. Governor, with due respect, you're wrong.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, how do we end this standoff?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm sure a lot of people out there watching who say if Kaci just stays home, the standoff ends. Obviously, that's not something she wants to do, nor is it something her organization, Doctors without Borders, recommends.

I looked at their guidance. I think this is really interesting because they've been doing this longer than anybody else. There is some nearly 40 years now of data, and they say that quarantine is not recommended nor is it warranted. They're very clear on this. And now you start to see evidence here in the United States even. Dr. Spencer was out on subways and the bowling alley and restaurant. None of those people got sick.

CAMEROTA: But it made New Yorkers nervous.

GUPTA: If the question is, does it make people nervous, it's a fair question, but it's a different question than is it going to make people sick. And I think we just need to be really clear on what we're trying to protect. We're trying to protect people from being scared or nervous, then we should say that and that's a legitimate discussion I think. But they're not sick.

SIEGEL: And the courts say if there's a decision based merely on fear, it's illegal. So if that's what they're admitting, and we understand the dynamic if you look at the history of communicable diseases in America, the answer is that you don't respond to fear. You have to follow the constitution and the law. We're a nation and the rule of law, and to the governor in Maine, make sure you follow the constitution.

CAMEROTA: Social media is abuzz with this topic, as you know, and people are on both sides of the fence. Let me read you some of the tweets that have been sent in to CNN. The first one is in favor of Kaci Hickox. This is from Beth, who say "Nurses don't kill people. Pathogens kill people, #Ebola." Lots of people believe that she is not contagious, she's not showing any signs."

But then there's this other strain that you hear a lot from people. This comes from Becky York. "Stay quarantined! Read a book. Do laundry. Enjoy life. And oh, yes, stop whining."

Mr. Siegel, there is a refrain out there which says 21 days, that's a little sacrifice to keep the public, to quell the public's anxiety. SIEGEL: It's a larger issue. It's the issue of liberty in America.

The constitution said the government can't deprive you without due process of law. The state of Maine is not doing that. And to the American public, I say I understand the fear, but we're a nation of people who have a history that we try to make reasonable decisions and we don't want to infringe on someone's liberty just even for a minute, let alone for 21 days.

GUPTA: The interesting thing is the slippery slope argument always comes up. You do have a situation where doctors at Emory, for example, have taken care of four patients successfully. All those patients have done well, out of the hospital. Should that health team now be quarantined? Because they essentially would fit the same profile as Kaci Hickox now. Are you going to quarantine the doctors at Emory? Are you going to quarantine the doctor's at NIH including Dr. Fauci who helped to take care of nurse Nina Pham? Are you going to quarantine the doctors in Nebraska?

SIEGEL: I'll give you an example. We go to court next week according to this protocol Kaci can't even come to court because it will be in the public.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but of course, the flip side of that argument is that the patients who cared for Thomas Duncan in Dallas did, the health care workers did become infected, and that Dr. Craig Spencer, who was traveling around New York, did -- at first was showing no symptom, then did develop symptoms and did in fact contract Ebola. So there's always an example of either side.

GUPTA: Just to be clear, no one is arguing that someone who is sick can't transmit the virus. Mr. Duncan was sick at the time. The question you're really trying to answer is did then those nurses then transmit the virus to somebody else, because Kaci Hickox is like the nurse, right, not like Mr. Duncan. Those nurses as far as we know did not transmit the virus to anybody else.

SIEGEL: He got it right.

CAMEROTA: My point is that many people feel 21 days is not that big of a sacrifice to quell the anxiety.

SIEGEL: But then that's sacrificing ourselves to medical ignorance. These governors want to be tough guys, but they're pandering in a political sense. And we've got to get away from pandering for fear, for political reasons. Let the medical community direct this kind of debate. The politicians should stay out of it. If you want to quarantine anyone, quarantine the politicians.

CAMEROTA: And in fact at 8:30 this morning you said that a development will be made when your conference call with your client. What are you going to recommend to her?

SIEGEL: As soon as you let me off this set --

CAMEROTA: What are you going to tell her to do today? SIEGEL: Lawyers like myself, we don't tell our clients what to do. We discuss the options. It's the client's decision. And you have to do that because it's her life. All I can be is, I learned when I was in Mississippi in the 60s, I am the technician. I am not the decision maker.

CAMEROTA: Well, Norman Siegel, thanks so much for taking time for us.

SIEGEL: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We will look forward to hearing what happens after the conference call.

SIEGEL: Follow his advice.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay -- we always do. We always do. Listen to Sanjay's advice. Thanks so much.

Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: And we'll let him get to his client.

All right. Alisyn, thanks so much for that.

Here's a look at your headlines. Quarter past the hour here.

An investigation is under way this morning to try and determine exactly what caused this catastrophic explosion of an unmanned NASA rocket. Investigators with the space agency and from Orbital Sciences, the company that built the rocket, they are assessing the damage and trying to figure out what went wrong. That rocket was carrying some 5,000 pounds of food, supplies, equipment and science experiments to the International Space Station.

There seems to have been a big uptick in the number of Russian aircraft flying into European air space in recent days. It's raising red flags for NATO officials. The planes flying under the guise of military maneuvers under is sections of the Baltic Sea, North Sea, and the Black Sea. NATO officials tell CNN the action could be a prelude to Russian air exercises.

It would appear that plus size crash dummies save lives. The company Humanetics now making test dummies to reflect America's thicker waistline. Studies show obese drivers are 78 percent more likely to die in a vehicle crash. So these new test dummies are modeled after someone weighing 270 pounds. While the current ones are based on someone weighing just 167 pounds.

Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, publicly acknowledging this morning that he is gay. He made the announcement in an essay in the new issue of "Bloomberg Business Week". The 53-year-old executive said he had tried to keep his life private, but apparently, was holding him back. Cook went on to write that if people know the head of Apple is gay, maybe it will inspire others not to be scored.

I want to quote one thing from his open letter. Quote, "We pave the sunlit path toward justice together, brick by brick. This is my brick."

CAMEROTA: That's nice.

PEREIRA: Is that nicely put?

CAMEROTA: Yes. The truth will set you free. That is really nice.

CUOMO: Even nicer when it's not necessary.

PEREIRA: Well, but steps like this get us going in that direction.

CAMEROTA: Yes, that's a good point. That's healthy news.

CUOMO: That's the whole point.

CAMEROTA: Good point.

Meanwhile, politicians stumping, gearing up for midterm elections. And at this point, key races remain up for grabs. We'll have a live report from the swing state of Iowa, coming right up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

Just five days until midterm elections and, you know, usually, at this point, we know what's going to happen. But this time, the balance of power are up for grabs. At this critical time, politicians with political aspirations are coming out, hoping they can do something to swing in and get momentum. Will it work?

Let's bring in chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash. She is in the presidential swing state of Iowa for us this morning.

Heavy metaphorical value, Dana Bash. What are you seeing out there?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Four hundred and fifty-nine days, Chris, that is the number of days until the tentative date for the Iowa caucuses. Very, very far away, but as you said, just five days from that, there is a very tight Senate race, so everyone who might want to be president is flooding the state.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): Hillary Clinton in the Hawkeye State to help get out the vote for the Democratic Senate candidate.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: You will never worry where Bruce Braley stands. He's a fighter for Iowa.

BASH: It's Clinton's second Iowa visit in two months, extensively to help others, but the probable presidential candidate has her own work to do in this first caucus state since in 2008, she came in third.

CLINTON: You test your candidates. You actually force them to be the best they can be. BASH: Iowa's tight Senate race allows White House hopefuls and there

are a lot of them to get here early and often.

JONI ERNST (R), IOWA SENATE CANDIDATE: How are you?

BASH: Florida Republican Marco Rubio spent the day with GOP Senate candidate Joni Ernst.

REP. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Hi, how are you? I'm Marco --

BASH: (INAUDIBLE) in the flesh with Iowa voters at multiple stops.

RUBIO: How Iowa goes is how the Senate will go. The Senate majority may very well be decided here in Iowa this year.

BASH: Rubio was an early supporter of Ernst for Senate.

But the bonus for him and others to come and meet local leaders is undeniable.

(on camera): This is the third time I believe you've been here to Iowa --

RUBIO: Third or fourth. We've been here a few times.

BASH (voice-over): Any Republican even considering running for president has made a point of propping up in the Hawkeye State this election year. Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Chris Christie, Mike Huckabee, Ted Cruz, Paul Ryan, Bobby Jindal, Rand Paul have all come multiple times in 2014 alone.

RUBIO: I'm glad to be here.

BASH: Sometimes, testing the waters can be treacherous like when a voter asked Rubio not about his own presidential prospects but Mitt Romney's.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can we convince Mitt to Run?

RUBIO: Oh, I don't know. You have to ask him.

BASH: It's a lot less chaotic on the Democratic side. Unlike 2008, when Barack Obama trounced Hillary Clinton in Iowa, she doesn't have much competition here for now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now, the latest controversy for this race is that the Republican candidate skipped a meeting with "The Des Moines Register" editorial board and Democrats have been pouncing on her. Hillary Clinton did very aggressively, Chris, yesterday saying that when you're in Iowa, you have to be willing to answer the tough questions. You can be sure we're going to remind her of that maybe this time next year.

CUOMO: Right, if she's in the race of course. Dana, I love that graphic where you had all the would-be candidates

popping up as square crows in the corn field. And it raises an interesting question: Do you think they are helping right now coming in or are they reminders of the establishment?

BASH: That's a great question.

No, I don't think they're hurting because at this point in time, it's about getting out the base and if you are an aware Republican, then you actually want to meet these candidates because you want to get ready for the next time around.

So, I don't think it's hurting Joni Ernst, the Republican Senate candidate and it certainly isn't hurting them, which is why they're here all the time, because that's the name of the game. Every one of these voters, never mind leaders, voters, they expect in Iowa to meet, to feel, to touch the people that they would potentially want to put in the White House. And so, the earlier these candidates can get in here, the better.

CUOMO: Are you getting any sense of why we have so many races that are so close this year? If you think about it, you would think that the Democrats would be getting completely spanked and there's certainly much to our disadvantage of the Republicans, but why so many races so close?

BASH: Disgust. I mean, that's honestly the best word to describe it. People are so fed up with Washington that they don't think anybody can really make much of a difference, which is why there are such tight races in about ten states.

What we have seen anecdotally here in Iowa, Kansas, New Hampshire, all across the country where we've traveled is that the people who can genuinely say that they are not of Washington and of the parties in Washington and the partisan problems there, they are doing the best because voters are so fed up.

And again, we hear this anecdotally, but just talking to Democratic and Republican sources, they are finding this with their data as well. that's why the candidates are saying we're not here, we're not of Washington, we are here, for example, here of Iowa, Joni Ernst, I've never been to Washington, Bruce Braley, the Democrat, is a member of Congress. That is what they're pushing more than anything and that's the reason why.

CUOMO: You know, I was watching the video of this event the other day and this lady screamed out, "I don't want to hear what's wrong with her. What's right with you?" And I do think that toxicity is there. It's so negative.

But we'll have to see how the votes go because just because they're angry, doesn't mean people get voted out. So, let's see.

Dana Bash, thank you for being out there and bringing us the reporting as only you can.

BASH: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK. Chris, Israel and the United States, are they allies or are they on the outs. Today, the delegation from Jerusalem visits the White House to try to figure that out.

Plus, what are women supposed to do about the relentless cat calls they face on the street? We will debate this very hot topic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)