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New Day

ISIS Beheads American Hostage Peter Kassig; Video Emerges of MH-17 Crash; DEA Stages Surprise NFL Inspections; New Tapes Released in Ferguson Shooting

Aired November 17, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Hostage executed. A third American beheaded by ISIS as U.S. airstrikes in Syria continue. Victim's family grieves. Investigators search for clues in the latest video by the terror group. How close is the coalition to catching this mass killer?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We have new video showing Officer Darren Wilson for the first time just hours after killing unarmed teenager student, Michael Brown. How did he look?

Plus the audio tape from before and after the shooting that has Brown's parents furious.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Staying silent, over the weekend, Bill Cosby refusing to comment on sexual allegations. Several women have come forward accusing the comedian of abuse decades ago. Why these accusers speaking out now? Will his silence hurt him in the end?

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY, starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan and Michaela Pereira.

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to NEW DAY. It's Monday, November 17, 6 a.m. in the east. Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota here with news of a third American beheaded by ISIS. There's video of a masked man, blood at his feet, standing in the aftermath of the latest display of cowardice. Speaking in that same British accent we've heard before, the killer announces the terror group beheaded Peter Kassig.

CAMEROTA: The mysterious terrorist also taunts President Obama, threatening that ISIS is on the hunt to kill other U.S. citizens.

Let's get right to CNN's senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns at the White House. Good morning, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

In some ways, this is the worst video yet, coming from ISIS at a time when the U.S. says it is beginning to gain some ground against this group, some western analysts still trying to figure out what it all means.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOHNS (voice-over): This morning, U.S. officials left reeling over the new chilling video released by ISIS.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: This video that we've seen here is a tragic reminder of the savagery of ISIS.

JOHNS: In the nearly 15-minute production, the fifth western hostage, a native of Indiana, Peter Kassig, appears to be decapitated, his head left at the feet of a man now known as Jihadi John.

Kassig, who changed Abdul-Rahman Kassig after converting to Islam in captivity, has been held sense October 2013. The latest video also showing the beheadings of other men whom ISIS claims are Syrian government pilots.

The man in black speaking directly to President Obama, threatening the U.S., warning "We will slaughter your soldiers, and eventually, the Islamic state will begin to slaughter your people on your streets."

Hours after the gruesome video's release, President Obama said in a statement, "Abdul-Rahman was taken from us in an act of pure evil. Like Jim Foley and Steven Sotloff before him, his life and deeds stand in stark contrast to everything that ISIL represents."

Kassig, the former Army ranger turned humanitarian aid worker and medic, was in Syria, where he told CNN that he could make a difference.

ABDUL-RAHMAN KASSIG, HUMANITARIAN AID WORKER: There is this impression, this belief that there is no hope, you know. That's when it's more important than ever that we come in against all odds and try to do something.

JOHNS: Last month, the 26-year-old's parents released a video pleading for their son's life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let our son go.

JOHNS: In a statement, Kassig's family says they're heartbroken to learn that their son has lost his life as a result of his love for the Syrian people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are so very proud of you and the work you have done.

JOHNS: Another American murdered as two more terror attacks struck near Baghdad International Airport on Sunday. The attacks, ISIS says, designed to kill Americans at the exit.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: One explanation from U.S. officials is that ISIS may see this as an opportunity to try to regain some momentum after losing ground. The video was released on the same weekend the chairman of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff was visiting Iraq. Alisyn and Chris, back to you. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CO-HOST: All right. Thanks so much, Joe.

Let's bring in right now Daveed Gartenstein-Ross. He's the senior fellow with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. And Tom Fuentes. He's CNN's law enforcement analyst and former assistant director for the FBI. Gentleman, nice to see you this morning, though we have to talk about this horrible video.

Daveed, I want to start with you. There are some notable differences -- Joe laid out some of them -- between this video and others that ISIS have put out. What do you see when you watch this?

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, SENIOR FELLOW, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: I think the first major difference is that you don't see the beheading on camera. One reason for this may be that Kassig did something to disrupt the cinematic setting that ISIS wanted to obtain. They subjected James Foley to mock beheadings prior to his execution, in part because you only have one take to get the beheading right, and in this case, Kassig may have disrupted the take, which is why they don't actually show the beheading on camera.

CAMEROTA: And Tom, you also don't see Kassig making any statement. We had seen those coerced statements before from the hostages. Not in this one. It is possible that Peter Kassig did something or refused to make a statement, or said something that went off script from what ISIS wanted. How do you -- what do you make of it?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, that's true, Alisyn. It could be that he was not as docile and cooperative as they would have liked. Also, he might have made statements that "I've converted to Islam. I'm an aid worker. I'm helping," which is the very thing they don't want. They don't want westerners coming in there and doing good things. They want to portray all westerners as deserving of death and a horrific death at that.

CAMEROTA: Daveed, this one also, I believe, gives a locator. It somehow is printed or stamped with a town in Syria. That's different. And that seems as though why would ISIS play its hand that way?

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Dabiq, Syria, is what they named their online English language magazine after. It's called Dabiq, as well. This comes from Islamic prophecy related to the end times.

What ISIS has portrayed themselves as, from the very outset, is something that's fulfilling prophecy, coming and restoring the glory of Islam as they understand it. And that's why they declared the caliphate. I mean, one of their major rationales is that they fulfill the requirements to bring back and unify the Ummah or worldwide body of believers.

CAMEROTA: Tom, IS there anything in this video that would help investigators find this person?

FUENTES: Well, if you see the whole video, there might be. And it appears that they were in more of a hurry, I guess, when they executed him and did the killings. So it could indicate they may have a worry about being outside in the open air too long, doing too much with all of their people in black robes because of fear of being spotted by American aircraft or Syrian aircraft or a drone or other things. So it is possible that they're a little bit worried about the possibility of being found as to their location.

CAMEROTA: Daveed, CNN has made a decision only to use those two still pictures that we are showing from the video, not to show any of the video, because it is so disgusting and so barbaric. And there's always a debate in the media, Daveed, about whether or not talking about these videos is important to inform viewers about how barbaric ISIS is, or whether or not it plays into ISIS's hands, because it helps them disseminate their vile propaganda. Where do you fall on that?

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: I think that's an important debate, and I think that there are strong arguments on both sides. What they all say is that this is an extraordinarily barbaric group. Its barbarity, at some point, is coming to come back to hurt it, the way that its predecessor, al Qaeda in Iraq, engaged in such excesses that it ended up provoking a major backlash against it.

ISIS has already killed over 10,000 people, and that's probably a very conservative estimate.

One thing I'd say, and it's worth contextualizing, is not just the video itself, but also the fact that the video comes in the context of a lot of setbacks for ISIS. It's gained no new ground since October the 14th. It's lost ground, such as the Beijing oil refinery. Its campaign has really stalled out, and it hasn't even been able to take Kobani, which was protected, you know, not very well when ISIS made an advance. It's gone from a symbol of ISIS being unstoppable to being a symbol of how ISIS really has been stopped.

CAMEROTA: That's excellent context. And it's so important to keep repeating those sorts of things.

Tom, how do you think the media should handle it when ISIS puts out another one of these videos?

FUENTES: Well, the problem, Alisyn, is that, yes, it does help ISIS. It helps their recruiting and their propaganda and, you know, their efforts to appear invincible.

On the other hand, we have serious policy discussions that need to occur in this country and with the alleged allies to determine what extent do we have to go to, to eliminate them? How bad are they? And if we don't know how bad or if people aren't informed that this is what they do and this is what's happening in that region, then how are we going to make an informed decision about future troop deployments or airstrike deployments or other actions in the region?

CAMEROTA: Well, you're right. That is exactly the debate that goes on inside the media and obviously with policy makers, as well. Daveed Gartenstein-Ross and Tom Fuentes, thanks so much for talking about this this morning.

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Thank.

CAMEROTA: And Chris, as I get back to you, we just don't want to forget about Peter Kassig in all of this. He was a really special person. And we'll talk about that throughout the morning, too.

CUOMO: He was. He represented everything that is different between someone who wants to do the right thing and people like those who took his life. And that's probably why they wanted to hide as much as they could from the true nature of his identity.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: It's a good discussion, Alisyn. Thanks for having it.

In other news, MH-17 back in the headlines. Video surfacing of the actual crash in Ukraine. It supposedly shows the moments right after Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 was brought down.

Today marks four months since that horror, and too much still remains in those Ukrainian fields. A bright spot is that truckloads of debris are finally being removed. But the question of who is to blame still hangs in the air there and at the G-20 summit. That's where Russian President Putin left early after getting a chilly reception over Russia's interference in Ukraine.

Phil Black is following the latest developments from Donetsk. And of course, that's the area. That's where the airplane is, and that's where the fighting seems to be kicking up again, Phil.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Chris. Let start with those pictures of the airplane first, though. You've stood in that location. I have, too, trying to imagine the strength of the impact, the inferno that must have taken place there. Well, these picture really convey that very powerfully, indeed.

That operation, that recovery operation is actually working at that exact site, collecting that main section of the fuselage: the wings, the engines. It's so late in coming, but it's important that it's happening now, because winter is almost here. Snow is going to be blanketing that countryside very soon, indeed. And crucially, as they move that wreckage, they're still finding human remains. And that's important because nine of the victims of that disaster are still yet to be accounted for. So that is so important for the loved ones, the families of those nine people.

The reason why that whole recovery operation has been delayed is that ongoing conflict, which continues, despite a cease-fire being signed back in September. The battle lines haven't really moved. The territory hasn't changed. But the artillery, the rockets, they continue to fly backwards and forth.

And we can hear it here from central Donetsk, heavy weapons being used. It's almost a constant thud in the near distance.

But the major concern is what happens next, amid these reports, these assessments that there has been a major influx of Russian troops and weaponry here into this separatist territory. That's what the Ukrainian government thinks. It's what NATO thinks. It's what European observers believe they have seen on the ground. Russia, the separatists here, deny all of this, but the concern is, from the Ukrainian government's side, that a new major offensive is about to begin -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Yes. What happens next is the question. Phil Black, thank you so much.

Back at home here, the DEA is keeping a very close eye on the NFL. Federal drug enforcement agents paid a surprise visit to at least two NFL teams following Sunday's games, questioning trainers and doctors. This is part of an investigation into allegations of illegal prescription drug use.

CNN's Evan Perez is life in Washington. What do we know, Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Three NFL teams ran into surprise inspections by the Drug Enforcement Administration after their road games on Sunday. The agents were conducting interviews with team trainers and staff about handling of prescription drugs, such as painkillers.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers say their staff met with federal agents at the Baltimore airport after beating Washington. The San Francisco 49ers tell CNN that the team personnel met with the DEA at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey. And the Seattle Seahawks told the local media that they also got a surprise inspection after their game in Kansas City.

Now, a Justice Department official says that the inspections are part of an ongoing administrative investigation into potential violations of the Controlled Substances Act. The investigation follows allegations made in a federal class-action lawsuit that was filed by NFL -- former NFL players. The retired players claimed that NFL trainers routinely handed out prescription drugs, including powerful pain killers. Federal law does not allow trainers to handle such prescription drugs.

Alisyn, an NFL spokesman says that "Our teams cooperated with the DEA today. And we have no information that indicate irregularities were found."

CAMEROTA: All right. Evan Perez, thanks so much for that update. Keep us posted.

PEREZ: Sure.

CAMEROTA: All right. There's other news this morning. Let's go over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: It seems like we're talking about a lot of hackings lately, isn't it? Well, that tops our headlines right now. The State Department has been hacked, becoming the fourth government agency to be breached in the last few weeks. Officials say only unclassified e- mail systems were affected. They are not saying if it may have been the work of a foreign government.

The State Department has shut down its public websites while working to upgrade security. We'll update you on this.

A surgeon diagnosed in Sierra Leone is in extremely critical condition. He is being described as perhaps the sickest person yet to be treated in the U.S. Dr. Martin Salia is in an isolation unit at Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha. Doctors are said to be using several treatment options.

Meanwhile, the Centers for Disease Control and prevention just announced airport screenings will begin for travelers flying to the U.S. from Mali, which is now reporting at least three Ebola cases.

This morning, we're learn that two of the four people killed in a DuPont gas leak southeast of Houston, they were brothers. "The Houston Chronicle" reports Gilbert Tisnado grabbed a gas mask to try and save his younger brother Robert. At one point, relatives say he removed his mask, tried to place it on his brother, but the toxic chemical methyl mercaptan overcame both of them.

Pope Frances will be coming to America, the Vatican confirming that he'll visit Philadelphia next September for the world meetings of families. It would be the pontiff's first scheduled trip to the U.S. since he became pope. Frances has also expressed interest in visiting Washington and New York next fall. But of course, details of his trip have not yet been finalized.

Bono recovering from a nasty spill in New York's Central Park. The U- 2 front man injured his arm after falling off his bicycle. In fact, he's going to have to have surgery. We understand the band -- he and the band have already cancelled a number of scheduled appearances, including a week-long stint as the "Tonight Show" band.

This accident comes right on the heels of another frightening incident for the rock star we told you about, when his private jet lost a rear hatch last week as he was flying from Dublin to Berlin. No one was injured in that incident.

CAMEROTA: He's not experiencing good luck at the moment.

PEREIRA: Yes. I'd just sit in a Barcalounger for maybe a week or so and relax.

CAMEROTA: Sit it out.

PEREIRA: Sit it out.

CAMEROTA: I like that idea.

CUOMO: We wish him a speedy recovery. It sounds bad if he needs surgery.

CAMEROTA: Yes, we do.

All right. Just-released tapes in the shooting death of Michael Brown could provoke more unrest in Ferguson, the victim's family claiming the footage contradicts that police's side of the story. So we have the latest details for you.

CUOMO: And I really can't believe we're asking this, but is there a question of another government shutdown? It's real. Republicans are threatening one if President Obama doesn't back down on immigration. We with have the likely ways forward and backward, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Just-released tapes from the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, could add even more fuel to the fire. Michael Brown's family is seething with anger. They say the footage conflicts with what police say transpired the day their son was shot and killed by Officer Darren Wilson.

For the latest developments, let's go live to Stephanie Elam. She is in Ferguson, Missouri. What is the latest, Stephanie?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

When you take a listen to the audio from these police recordings, it gives another clue about what Darren Wilson, according to one alleged source, has said actually happened August 9. Take a listen yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM (voice-over): These are the first images of Officer Darren Wilson, in the white tee-shirt, captured just hours after Michael Brown was killed on August 9. It is unclear in the video if Wilson was suffering from any injuries, but police have said that Wilson sustained bruises and had a swollen face after his alleged struggle with Brown.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN'S FAMILY: From the beginning, Dorian Johnson, who was with Michael Brown Jr., said the officer wasn't hurt, that he saw.

ELAM: The surveillance obtained by the "St. Louis Post-Dispatch" shows Wilson leaving the police station after the shooting for the hospital. Later the video shows him returning, according to the paper. "The St. Louis Post-Dispatch" also obtained police audio, publishing a timeline of events that day, beginning with the theft.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, we've taken a stealing in progress from 9101 West Florissant.

ELAM: Nineteen seconds later dispatch issues a description of a suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's with another male. He's got a red Cardinals hat, white tee-shirt, yellow socks and khaki shorts. He's walking up (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

ELAM: Minutes later, Officer Wilson offers assistance.

OFFICER DARREN WILSON, SHOT MICHAEL BROWN: Twenty-one to 25 or 22, you guys need me?

ELAM: The paper says shortly after, Officer Wilson stops Brown and his friend Dorian Johnson for walking in the middle of the street. Officer Wilson calls for backup.

WILSON: Twenty-one. Put me on Canfield with two. And send me other car.

ELAM: According to the paper's timeline, Brown's fatal encounter with Wilson took less than two minutes. At 12:07, this call came in, with someone apparently screaming in the background.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Frank 25.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get us several more units over here. There's going to be a problem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM: And as the grand jury decision looms about whether or not Darren Wilson will be indicted, people here in Ferguson are on edge. I've had multiple conversations with people who live here, many afraid to go on camera, because they don't any blowback. But they just hope that there aren't the massive protests that have been rumored to happen here. And if there are protests, that they're not violent, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. Everyone is hoping that. Stephanie Elam, thanks so much for that report.

Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right. So what is any of this new information going to mean legally? Let's bring in CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and attorney and radio personality Mo Ivory. What moves do you hear? First, let's deal with the video. You know, CNN reporting had knocked down the idea of there being any significant injury, orbital fracture. There are a lot of rumors coming out early on. But what do you take when you look at it?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't take a lot from the video, because it's sort of that grainy black-and-white video.

CUOMO: Can't see much.

CALLAN: But the other thing I think is even more important. We don't know what Wilson said about his own injuries.

CUOMO: That's right.

CALLAN: These things are based on what other police officers said, and they may have exaggerated it to try to help their fellow cop. What I'd like to know is what did he say about his injuries. That's the only thing that would be relevant. And of course, you have independent medical records that will verify it one way or the other.

CUOMO: Sending him to the hospital. You need to know whose decision that was or whether or not that's just routine?

CALLAN: I don't think so, because that's a routine. It's a shooting incident. He probably did get a scratch or a bruise, which was one of the descriptions. And certainly, you'd send an officer to the hospital.

CUOMO: By everybody's account, Mo, they were fighting at the car. I mean, we know that. But when you see the video, anything stand out to you?

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY/RADIO PERSONALITY: Well, what stands out to me most, and I would agree that, legally, we would need to hear from Officer Wilson, but what stands out to me is, first of all, Officer Wilson's size. We haven't had much of his size. And, you know, he's a very large man. So for me, it sort of just put into perspective a little bit about this, you know, always calling Michael Brown a quiet giant but never sort of referring to actually Officer Wilson was his same size or bigger. So I really wonder about the threat in Officer Wilson's mind at the time. That's just something that stuck out to me. Whether that can be used legally or not, I'm not sure, but it stuck out to me.

Also the time. Two hours before he went to the hospital, with a lawyer at that, makes me question why, at no point, was there an incident report done? We still don't have a comprehensive...

CUOMO: Right.

IVORY: ... incident report from Darren Wilson.

CUOMO: Yes.

IVORY: And it just is a little troubling to me that for two hours they sat there and discussed a plan, and then they took him to the hospital with a lawyer. And then he returned back to the police station for an additional two hours, at which no time an incident report was done.

CALLAN: Well, of course, there's no evidence that anybody was discussing a plan. I mean, maybe that happened, Mo, but...

IVORY: Paul, Paul, for four hours...

CALLAN: ... there's no evidence that a plan was being discussed.

IVORY: ... nobody decided to write an incident report?

CUOMO: Here's the thing. Mo, you said that before. Others have said it. I checked with Ferguson police officers. I checked with St. Louis police officers. I checked with members who are in the authority structure of the police. They say that this is not a normal incident. When you have something like this, the reporting requirements of filing a report are different. That very often when there's a potential union issue, the filing requirements are different. So Paul, couldn't it just be that this is a different situation, and there was no intent not to report; it's just how this situation went?

CALLAN: That may be. And it also may be an officer who is so upset and so frazzled he can't file the report.

I know, for instance, in New York, the union, the police union gets involved right away.

CUOMO: Right.

CALLAN: And a lawyer gets involved.

There were reports early on in this case that the St. Louis Police Department had taken over the investigation.

CUOMO: Right.

CALLAN: And that maybe, for that reason, he didn't file the report. Ultimately, I don't know. He may look very bad for having delayed filing the report. But certainly, whether you did your paperwork on a timely basis or not is not what this case is going to fall or rise on.

CUOMO: Mo, I want to ask you about the timeline again. First, important to note. This is not a leak, OK? This information...

IVORY: Right.

CUOMO: ... came out from "The St. Louis Dispatch" as a function of their sunshine laws. You know, they're asking for things, demanding they be made public. That's how it got out. So it's not a leak.

When you talk about the duration here, two minutes is actually a long time when we're dealing with violent activity and, you know, horrible situations like this. It could be a lifetime for the victim involved and maybe the shooter, as well. What do you take from it?

IVORY: Well, when I started to hear the audio, you know, I felt that -- the first thing I thought was that Officer Wilson wasn't really even involved in this incident at all at first. There was a dispatch. There were other officers that were on the way. And he sort of got involved after saying like, "Umm, do you need my help?"

And then after that we don't hear anything. He goes, and at first when he comes into contact with Dorian and with Michael Brown, he was not even aware that those were the two. He had not heard the description.

So I really -- this only goes back to what we sort of already knew: that that robbery at the market had nothing to do with him stopping Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson. Those other officers were the ones that were on the way to the scene. So I don't really think that the audio does anything, but the time line in terms of the minutes tells me that this was a very quick thing that happened; it was reaction. Adrenaline was pumping. I mean, that's what that kind of tells me.

CUOMO: Right. Also, you don't...

IVORY: But it doesn't say anything different about the description that he heard on the audio.

CUOMO: Right. You had mixed information also on this early on, that the officer did know. That he didn't know. The audio seems to make it pretty clear he knew about the robbery. Whether or not he identified these two kids. He doesn't -- he doesn't point that out in his own description. And frankly, from most of the accounts we've heard, he doesn't approach them asking them about the robbery.

CALLAN: No. And I think people have to remember, and the audio confirms this, although we're trying to put together scraps of information and form a cogent explanation as to what went down.

But what's clear is noontime he's on a radio call for a sick baby. When he comes back from that radio call -- and there have been things about the robbery going on over the radio, kind of as he's getting out of his cruiser, which maybe he hears in the background.

But then there were two incidents. The first, he stops the two men, Dorian Johnson and Michael Brown, because they're walking down the middle of the street. Clearly, Mo is right. There's no robbery involved in that. He doesn't know anything about it.

But then something clicks. He looks, probably in his rearview mirror, and Michael Brown, he's got the -- you know, he's got Swisher cigars in his hand, and he was dressed the same way. And it may be that now he says, "These are the guys in the robbery." And all of a sudden, he backs the car up. And that's when the incident starts. That's how I put it all together and think the thing went down.

IVORY: Sure. I agree with that. Paul, I agree with that. I think that he did, at the point at which he backed up, realize this may be the two that I'm hearing about.

CALLAN: Right.

IVORY: But to me, that doesn't change anything in the case. Because this has been the conjecture, that he realized it was them and then he pulled Michael Brown into the car. It really doesn't change the main question, which is did he use excessive force once they -- once Michael Brown was, you know, they were face-to-face?

CUOMO: Look, the biggest problem we're dealing with right now in this situation is the anticipation of the outcome. This grand jury has to take its time, but they have to come to a conclusion. It has to be made public. And then the community has to deal with it, one way or the other.

Mo Ivory, Paul Callan, thank you very much. We'll continue to discuss it -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Chris. The president is facing a potentially serious backlash over his immigration plan. His Republican critics say they are ready to shut down the government. Will they really do it? We've got our experts here to debate that. Stick around.

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