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New Day

No Indictment in Michael Brown Shooting; Peaceful Protests Dissolve into Chaos

Aired November 25, 2014 - 6:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: As tear gas dropped near us, it's going to get very bad here.

BOB MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS COUNTY PROSECUTOR: They determined that no probable cause exists to file any charges against Officer Wilson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mayhem. People running around.

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: They're telling us to get to a safe area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Y'all should have seen this coming!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It spun out of control. Much worse than the worst night we ever had.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I look at our community torn apart.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This not just an issue for Ferguson, this is an issue for America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning. Welcome to NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, November 25th, 6:00 in the east. I'm Chris Cuomo in Ferguson, Missouri and the problems here are ongoing. A furious response to news that Officer Darren Wilson will not be charged in the fatal shooting of Michael Brown. We will show you what happened here and what questions remain -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Chris, we look forward to seeing all of that from the scene. I'm Alisyn Camerota in New York along with Michaela Pereira. We're following all of the reaction. The impact the grand jury decision is having and it's being felt across the country with marches and protests from coast to coast. So we'll have more on all of that in a moment.

But for now we want to go back to Chris, who has been in the thick of it all night -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Thank you. And by anybody's reckoning this was worse than was expected. And more importantly, apparently worse than authorities were ready for. If you take a look, storefronts were looted, burned, cars set on fire. Many of the flames are still burning right now.

All this, despite pleas from President Obama and more importantly, perhaps to the local community, Michael Brown's family to maintain peaceful protests, to be the change that they wanted to see, and yet, dozens arrested, rocks, bottles thrown at police and at bystanders, some of our own people getting hit in the field. Police responded with pepper spray, smoke canisters and a lot of tear gas. Many asking if police could have been better prepared, and that is a legitimate question, considering they dealt with similar unrest in August.

We're also learning this morning exactly what Darren Wilson told the grand jury, with the release of his testimony. Some of the details have rekindled anger in this community, where anger has been simmering since that fateful encounter on August 9. Take a look at what happened overnight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO (voice-over): Ferguson on fire after no indictment of Officer Darren Wilson. As many as a dozen buildings torched in the worst conflicts to date, as outrage ran through the streets.

Local authorities thought they were prepared, that tear gas would not be needed. They were wrong.

(on camera): Here come flash-bangs and canisters coming up at us.

(voice-over): Live on air...

(on camera): We're getting gas right now.

(voice-over): ... gas shot around reporters, forcing the crowds to flee. Further down the street...

(on camera): Tear gas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tear gas.

(voice-over): ... police firing more tear gas directly into the crowd. Officers trying to disburse the crowd, but there would be no control.

POLICE CHIEF JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY: I didn't see a lot of peaceful protests out there tonight. What I've seen tonight is probably much worse than the worst night we ever had in August.

CUOMO: All this because a grand jury refused to indict Officer Darren Wilson. Small groups of agitators ravaging Ferguson, looting businesses and setting fire to police cruisers. Tears streaming down the face of Michael Brown's mother after the decision was read.

MCCULLOCH: The grand jury deliberated over two days. They determined that no probable cause exists to file any charge against Officer Wilson and returned a no true Bill on each of the five indictments.

CUOMO: Brown's parents saying, quote, "We're profoundly disappointed that the killer of our child will not face the consequence of his actions."

Officer Darren Wilson's lawyers also releasing a statement: "Officer Wilson followed his training, followed the law."

Minutes after word of the grand jury decision, President Obama called for peace.

OBAMA: Hurting others or destroying property is not the answer.

CUOMO: Prosecutors released all evidence presented to the grand jury, 24 volumes of transcripts reviewed by the 12 grand jurors: seven men, nine women; nine White, three black.

Also for the first time, we see photos of Officer Wilson taken immediately after he fatally shot the unarmed black teen six times. More photos of the scene itself.

We now know Wilson testified that when he first saw Brown and his friend walking in the middle of the road on the morning of August 9, he yells quote, "Hey, guys, why don't you walk on the sidewalk?" That's when Wilson says Brown walked over and slammed the police cruiser door as Wilson tried to exit. Wilson testified the teen hit him in excess of ten times, landing two blows, causing minor bruising. These photos showing a swollen right cheek, scratches on the back of his neck.

Wilson also says after a tussle over his gun, and two shots fired in the car, Brown takes off, Wilson pursuing him down the street yelling, "Get on the ground." The teen eventually stops, turns towards the officer with, quote, "an aggressive face." Officer Wilson says Brown then charges him. And when Brown was only eight to ten feet away, the officer fires two fatal shots, hitting him in the head.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Word of Officer Darren Wilson's testimony has only led to more and more questions here about whether the story makes sense. But bottom line, it seemed to make sense to the grand jury, because it was probably the most powerful piece of evidence they were presented with.

What we also know for sure is, in response, protests. They're getting so intense and so dangerous in Ferguson that firefighters who were trying to respond to the fires, had to flee, leaving their hoses behind.

Protests weren't just here. They flared up in cities across the country, including Los Angeles, Seattle, Chicago, Philadelphia and New York City.

Let's bring in Stephanie Elam. She's been in Ferguson all night.

Stephanie, first of all, are you OK? I know you got hit last night. I wasn't with you, but I was hearing it as we were doing our reporting. You're doing OK this morning?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes; no, we're fine. Other than being cold, we really can't complain, Chris. Thanks for asking. And while we were out there, the one thing was really, really clear about what we could see, is that there was really no one in control for a good part of what was happening here in Ferguson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CHANTING)

ELAM (voice-over): Peaceful protests erupting into chaos after the announcement of no indictment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you saying? That our lives are not equal? Our lives are not worthy of not even a day in court? That's what you just said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's another example of a miscarriage of justice.

ELAM: Angry protesters clashing with police, hurling bottles, rocks and bricks at officers and the media.

(on camera): People are throwing stuff at me right now. It's that kind of scene out here right now.

(voice-over): Protesters attacking police cars, shattering the window of this cruiser as cops run in with guns drawn to disburse them. But mayhem on the streets looking like a war zone.

(on camera): Oh! Whoa!

(voice-over): Gunshots ringing out throughout the night. Flames engulfing several police cars. Buildings ablaze, roaring out of control, some burning to the ground. Firefighters stretched thin with the number of fires erupting and moving out, fearing their own safety. Widespread looting, several businesses vandalized, including Ferguson Market and Liquor, where Brown had allegedly stolen cigars before his death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to get out of the street or you will be subject to arrest.

ELAM: Police in riot gear and armored trucks, firing tear gas and smoke bombs into crowds, refusing to disburse, forcing demonstrators to run.

Anger and frustration about the grand jury decision spreading across the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot! Hands up! Don't shoot!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot! Hands up! Don't shoot!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot! Hands up! Don't shoot!

ELAM: Protesters in Chicago facing off with police as they voiced their anger. In New York, massive crowds marching through Manhattan, reaching three

major bridges with one known arrest. Protesters in Times Square even throwing fake blood at New York Police Commissioner Bill Bratton.

Demonstrators gathering outside the White house, weaving together on the ground along Pennsylvania Avenue.

In Oakland, California, protesters shut down the expressway, lying down inside chalk outlines drawn on the streets.

A similar scene in Seattle, where demonstrators dropped to the ground.

The man who simmered tensions this summer urging restraint in the aftermath of chaos.

CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: We definitely have done something here that is going to impact our community for a long time. That's not how we create change. Change is created through our voice and not through destruction of our community.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM: Nevertheless, no matter how you break it down, a very disappointing, very upsetting end to this evening. A day that people had been waiting for for so long to find out what the fate of Darren Wilson would be.

And Chris, when you look at it, I really can't see any way you can find a winner in all this. It looks like everyone is losing something after how everything played out today.

CUOMO: That's tough to disagree with, and you know, hopefully, we have seen the worst of it. But you just can't know right now.

Let's discuss with some of the people who were playing roles here last night. We have Pastor Robert White. He's with the Peace of Mind Church of Happiness here in Ferguson. We also have Lizz Brown, a columnist with the "St. Louis American," the city's largest African- American newspaper.

Now Rev, it's good to see that you're safe this morning. I was here with you last time. You played a very important role in organizing protests, keeping it civil on the ground. Different situation last night. Very different. And you were surprised by it. How so?

REV. ROBERT WHITE, PEACE OF MIND CHURCH OF HAPPINESS, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: Well, the biggest surprise, Chris is that after all the planning from August to now, after all the conversations with lawmakers, I put it like one of the clergy persons said last night: we're mad as hell. We're mad, because we tried to put ourselves on the line to help protect our citizens.

But we were not involved in that conversation about the planning, that Captain Johnson and Chief Belmar and Governor Nixon talked about. They said that we're going to be safe. They said they were going to protect our buildings and protect our businesses, and yet, the city is up in flames; and particularly not on South Florissant Road, but on the West Florissant Roadside, where they're predominantly black-owned businesses.

CUOMO: How do you explain that, by the way? Why -- not to generalize, but it does seem that the community was going after its own with those black-owned businesses. Why do that?

WHITE: Well, Chris, you and I, we got tear-gassed. I was right behind you when the tear gas started. And that was over on South Florissant Road, where there was a huge concentration of officers. And the question was, you guys need to be over on West Florissant, where the crowds were a lot more raucous, rowdy and rioting and looting. Because they were allowed to do this without resistance.

CUOMO: Yes. And anger doesn't have a conscience, and once people are outraged and they were running, they're just going to go after whatever they see in front of them.

WHITE: Whatever was in the way; whatever was at arm's reach.

And so what happened was the clergymen and women that were on the line, trying to help protesters, we became targets. We heard Captain Johnson tell us, if you guys don't do what you tell us, then you're a threat to us.

CUOMO: Very different relationship with Captain Johnson last night than you've had in the past, true?

WHITE: Absolutely. Captain Johnson has a lot of explaining to do, because he didn't answer questions a lot. And what he showed us last night was an about-face of what we were used to from him.

CUOMO: He was treating you like the enemy you said to me before.

WHITE: I was literally told that if I took one more step to the left, he said, "Have that man arrested."

And I said, "Are you kidding me?"

He said, "Try me." A very different person than the guy that I've been in numerous meetings with, trying to create peace.

CUOMO: Well, there's no question tensions were very high.

Lizz, let's bring in -- you in here. The feeling on the ground was that they were not ready for what happened last night. There was a lot of anticipation that there would not be an indictment and, as a result, that there would be a lot of anger and hostility among people here. And yet, it didn't seem that they were ready to get out to the fires. It didn't seem that they were ready to move the crowds the way we might have hoped. Your take?

LIZZ BROWN, COLUMNIST, "ST. LOUIS AMERICAN": Well, it's just -- it's stunning, actually. And it's actually -- even though there wasn't an indictment of Darren Wilson last night, there was an indictment of law enforcement; there was an indictment of Governor Nixon. There was an indictment of Bob McCulloch. There was an indictment of Claire McCaskill, all political leadership.

It is stunning for -- to consider that the governor said, in a preemptive way, "I'm going to bring in the National Guard." Well, where were they last night?

CUOMO: Right.

BROWN: You know, where were they last night? This is an indictment of everybody who -- they all knew this was coming. It wasn't like Bob McCulloch found out last week that there was [SIC] going to be an indictment. He knew from jump that there was (sic) going to be an indictment. And so did every other person in law enforcement.

And the fact that they allowed buildings to burn. The fact that there were no National Guard, even though there was a big use of the National Guard before, there was no National Guard in Ferguson. How do you explain that? A building burned before. What, did you not anticipate that another building could burn? It's just -- it's just inexplicable, and it's awful.

CUOMO: It's -- your viewpoint is understandable. But there is some context that's necessary. The National Guard became a metaphor for being overly aggressive, and there were all of these calls for them to be kept back, for them to not be here. So hindsight is 20/20, but to say, you know, they should have been here and more active, there was a lot of criticism of the move, even in calling them up originally.

BROWN: Then why...

CUOMO: And so you have to -- yes, Lizz.

BROWN: Then why make the comment, why use the National Guard as a way to -- to try to tamp people's actions down? Either they're there or they're not. Either you're in it or you're not. You can't half-step the protection of a community. Can't half-step it; you're either in or out.

CUOMO: Reverend.

WHITE: We were told that the National Guard was specifically going to be used to protect businesses so that the police -- the local police can police. If the National Guard is sitting at command center and not out in the streets, they could have been on West Florissant Avenue and protected those black-owned businesses...

BROWN: Absolutely.

WHITE: ... rather than being post-active. They could have been out there and protected those buildings the way that the buildings were protected in South Florissant.

CUOMO: So do you think that this was just a failure to anticipate it, Reverend? Do you think that this was intentional? Why would it be?

WHITE: Well, first of all, as a leader in this community, we don't condone violence. We don't condone any of the actions that the people have done. But what we have to look at is all of us as leaders have failed. We failed to plan properly and be prepared, as you said, on both sides of the fence. Because if those conversations would have allowed us to be a part of it, then maybe we could have helped Captain Belmar and Chief Belmar and all of those other folks involved on letting them know what we were hearing on the streets.

CUOMO: Well, you're touching on something that is painfully apparent here, Lizz, and let me come back to you for this, the final part of the conversation. The need for leadership. It is horrible what has happened to destruction of property. Thank God there weren't more people hurt last night. People keep likening this to the L.A. riot. It was nothing like that last night. There were 100 people killed, hundreds more injured. Thank God we didn't have that last night, and hopefully, we've seen the worst of it. We don't know.

But it's going to be easier to rebuild buildings than to rebuild what you need most in this community, which is the relationship between elected officials, your police, and the community they're supposed to be serving. And the question is when do you think that begins, Lizz?

BROWN; I don't know when it begins. Because the challenge to the beginning of a heal [SIC] is the acknowledgement of the harm or the injury that has occurred.

And when you listen to the words of Bob McCulloch last night, there was no true acknowledgement of the crime that was committed against Michael Brown. There was no acknowledgement or understanding of what that felt like, what that feels like to the African-American community. That an unarmed African-American teenager, walking away with his hands up, was gunned down, and the guy who did it will not face trial. And he will not face trial, because the fix was in with the grand jury.

If you don't understand what that says, what that means to the community, how can healing ever begin?

CUOMO: Right. Lizz, I understand your perspective. We've discussed this many times. But also, you have to have faith in the system. The grand jury had it; they deliberated. We don't know what their vote was. But we do know that they didn't find a true Bill.

Saying that the fix is in -- certainly, the prosecutor is not going to apologize for a crime when the grand jury just said there was no probable cause to believe that a crime was committed.

BROWN: Well, Chris...

CUOMO: The questions remain, and so does the doubt. Look, Lizz, we'll continue this conversation.

BROWN: OK.

CUOMO: But I want to move through the news events of the morning.

BROWN: OK.

CUOMO: And I'll have you back on. You know that. Because it's a very important conversation.

BROWN: Please. I know. Thank you.

CUOMO: Lizz, thank you very much.

Rev, look, you've been good to me. You protected me here. Your leadership is needed. I'll see you back out there. Hopefully, both of us don't have much to do.

WHITE: Absolutely. Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Thank you, sir.

Alisyn, back to you in New York.

CAMEROTA: Chris, we do want to stay with you for a little while, because we want to hear what the scene was like there last night. And we know that you were in the middle of it and have been for many hours, so just take us through it. Describe what you found when you landed there in Ferguson.

CUOMO: All right. Now, you had something where, let's just be honest, there was a lot of feeling there wasn't going to be an indictment. Why? Well, just because of everything we were hearing. And certainly on the ground, people seemed expectant of disappointment, OK?

But then once you're actually disappointed, everything changes. There were a lot of people, there's a lot of hostility and the image of what they fear and they are angry about is now in their face. It's the police officers. And they had better restraint than I saw last time. They seemed to be more organized. But what happened was, they said they wouldn't need tear gas, that they had done training and they were -- had other tactics and methods and the National Guard to help the property. So we weren't as equipped and neither were the protesters to deal with what the nature of push-back would be.

All of a sudden, as the line, the phalanx of officers starts to get tested, tear gas just comes raining down, flash-bangs, noise-making disruptive devices to disburse a crowd just come raining down. Gunfire starts to come out in volleys toward the officers. And then it was literally, you know, the most over-used word in a riot situation: chaos.

And there was no angry horde attacking them, and frankly, the police were not becoming an army, attacking themselves. I didn't see any violent altercations where we were. But the tear gas was completely debilitating to people. And it continued again and again, wave after wave throughout the night. And it created a very hostile situation, guys.

CAMEROTA: Did it seem like an over-reaction on the part of law enforcement to you or no?

CUOMO: You know, that -- it's a hard judgment, Mick. Because it's easy for me to say, did I like being tear-gassed? No. Did I and all the people around me wish it hadn't happened? Yes. But people weren't getting out of the street.

Now, there did seem to be a little bit of a misunderstanding. Even in talking with the Rev before, they weren't allowed to be on the street protesting. They were allowed to be on the sidewalks. People didn't seem to get that, and they seemed to be very confused with why they were telling them to move. They were saying, "We have the right to assemble."

And the cops were saying, "Yes, but not here."

So the question becomes, you know, well, what are they supposed to do? They were firing bean bags into the crowd, these things that hurt if they hit you, but to scare -- to get you away without -- the least violence necessary. You know, did they have to do that? Well, what's the alternative? Did they need to use the tear gas? Well, what's the alternative? That was the problem last night.

And then it just kept spiraling with the fires, and the first responders couldn't get to them.

But the good news is -- and that's going to be a really stretched term right now -- I didn't see people getting hurt the way I feared they would. When it started to happen, Alisyn and Mick, I thought there was going to be a lot of bloodshed here.

PEREIRA: I am really pleased to hear that. As you said, it's going to be an interesting definition of good news, but the fact that there weren't lives lost and people weren't severely injured, that is something that we have to at least acknowledge.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely.

PEREIRA: That is one positive.

CAMEROTA: All right, Chris. We're going to be going back to you throughout the show. And then we have this bombshell: We're hearing for the first time Officer Darren Wilson's account of the fatal Michael Brown shooting. We have his grand jury testimony. It is now public. So we will read to you why Wilson says he had no choice but to shoot the unarmed teenager. That's next.

PEREIRA: And was there a deciding factor that kept the grand jury from indicting Wilson? We'll put that question to our legal experts, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: The big question is why didn't the grand jury indict? There's a lot of testimony to go through, but it does seem that the factor that was the biggest for them was the testimony of Darren Wilson. We have Ana Cabrera here. We hadn't heard from him before, but we know he testified, and it seemed he did in great detail, and we know what he said.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We still have not seen Officer Darren Wilson or even heard from him in person, even after the grand jury came back with the no indictment. He has been living a life in large part in secrecy ever since that fatal day, and clearly, he's not really welcome by many people in his community that he had served before all of this.

But we are hearing his side of the story, through his eyes, as he told the grand jurors.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCCULLOCH: They determined that no probable cause exist to file any charge against Officer Wilson.

CABRERA (voice-over): A bombshell announcement with big implications: no indictment against 28-year-old Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson.

MCCULLOCH: The physical and scientific evidence examined by the grand jury, combined with the witness statements supported and substantiated by that physical evidence tells the accurate and tragic story of what happened.

CABRERA: Overnight, the prosecutor releasing the contents of the entire case, including these photos of a bruised Wilson, indicating a struggle with the unarmed teen. Silent since the August 9 incident, we are now hearing from Wilson in his own words, through his testimony, about the day he fatally shot Michael Brown.

He says Brown assaulted him while he was still inside his vehicle. And that he had never used his weapon before. He said, quote, "I felt that another of those punches in my face could knock me out or worse. I have already taken two to the face, and I didn't think I would. The third one could be fatal if he hit me right."

Wilson has been in hiding for the last three months.

With anger and frustration erupting across the region following the decision not to indict, Wilson's lawyer releasing a statement, saying in part, "Law enforcement personnel must frequently make split-second and difficult decisions. Officer Wilson followed his training and followed the law."

Sources tell CNN the four-year veteran of the Ferguson Police Department, who's been out on paid administrative leave, now has plans to resign.

Through the controversy, Wilson managed to keep his personal life private, even his recent marriage to a fellow Ferguson police officer. A St. Louis County marriage license says the two wed on October 24 in Oakland, Missouri, some 15 miles south of Ferguson. The couple reportedly share a home in St. Louis. This is his second marriage, her first. But what the future holds for them, is unclear.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: And going back to the testimony, I think it's also really important to point out that during that testimony, Officer Wilson said multiple times he was adamant that Michael Brown was running toward him and continued to come toward him as he fired those shots outside the vehicle, which of course, has been the biggest point of controversy in this case.

We have reached out to Officer Wilson, CNN as an organization has reached out multiple times to Officer Wilson and his attorneys, Chris, to try to get an interview with him or to get a statement from Officer Wilson himself, and he still continues to decline to have any further comment at this point.

CUOMO: Well, he's going to do an interview. We know that. And he's going to get his story out. But it is interesting now that his story in front of that grand jury is probably the most powerful thing they saw. And it's going to raise a lot of questions. As people hear little bits of it, they're asking already.

Ana, thank you very much for being on that and being with us here in Ferguson.

I want to get back to you, Alisyn. And all night long we were hearing about his story and what people felt needed to be questioned about it. And the irony is the grand jury is the prosecutor's show, but Darren Wilson probably didn't get cross-examined the way he would have at a trial. So really, the grand jury got to hear his version in a very pure form.

CAMEROTA: Reading through that testimony, Chris, is so fascinating. It's about this thick, so we've been combing it this morning, and we'll bring most of that to our viewers.

But joining us now is CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney, Mark O'Mara. Mark represented George Zimmerman after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Mark, thanks so much for being here.

The grand jury had five options, everything from first-degree murder all the way to involuntary manslaughter. They chose to indict on nothing. What does that tell you?

O'MARA: Well, it tells me they focused on the question of whether or not Darren Wilson acted in self-defense or perceived that he had reasonable fear of Mike Brown. Because once you do that, then there's no crime potential possible, and that's, I think, what they found.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about that, because what if Darren Wilson was just scared? He was scared in a way that NYPD officers might not have been scared. But Darren Wilson that day was scared. In fact, in his testimony he describes seeing the face of a demon in Michael Brown. That's -- is that good enough justification, if one person is scared?

O'MARA: No, being scared is not good enough. It has to be reasonable fear based upon the circumstances and not just afraid, but afraid of great bodily injury or death, according to you. And that's a very difficult standard.

He presented his testimony in a way that, I think, helped the grand jury find it. The demon, the 5-year-old against the Hulk Hogan. That presentation of evidence tells the grand jury, "I'm more scared than you've ever been." And that sort of helps or informs the grand jury's decision.

PEREIRA: Through the benefit of hindsight, Mark, now looking back on this, was it the right move to push this to the grand jury?

O'MARA: It had to go to the grand jury, because McCulloch one way or the other could not make a decision alone. He would have been just excoriated for anything he had done. The idea of bringing in the community and letting the community, grand jury look at the case -- excuse me -- decide it in a way that makes at least a possibility that it can be believed by the other community members, is probably the best way.

PEREIRA: But can we talk about that? We're talking the scene play out where Chris and our reporters are on the ground. And it makes us wonder -- Alisyn and I have been having this conversation all morning -- about the decision to release this decision as night fell. Mark, it seems all of that so-called planning and preparation was kind of tossed out the window.

O'MARA: They said that they were planning for this for two and a half months, what to do and how to do it and how to involve the community and how to minimize damage and anger.

If you and I decided the worst hour to pick to release this decision, it would have been at 9 or 10 p.m. at night. The worst time possible. Do do it at 2:30 when they first got it or wait until this morning at 8 p.m. Wait until you have at least the ability of some daylight.

CAMEROTA: Right. Chris, we want to go back out to you on the scene. Have they explained why they chose 9 p.m. to release this?

CUOMO: Yes. You know, I heard Mark making that point last night. It does seem somewhat counterintuitive. But they have a good answer. Their answer is, "When we did it later at night, we were assured that stores were empty and closed, that the schools were out, that people would basically be home. And we felt that we were limiting the amount of people who'd be exposed on the streets as innocents.

And I think that's something that you want to weigh in as also.

Mark, I also think it's important for you to understand, and going through what Wilson's story is, he says two big important things. One is, his reasonable fear came from two moments: one, that he thought if he got punched another time, he may pass out or die. OK. That would be one thing that would be heavily cross-examined.