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New Day

Ferguson Erupts after Grand Jury Ruling; Interview with Brown Family Attorney; Officer Wilson's Testimony

Aired November 25, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. We're following a lot of news, let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I join Michael's parents in asking anyone who protests this decision to do so peacefully.

PROTESTERS: Hands up, don't shoot! Hands up, don't shoot!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said if there was violence tonight, it would mar the memory of their child.

(CHANTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Y'all should have seen this coming!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were promised we would be protected. I don't see the National Guard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to get out of the street or you will be subject to arrest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we're going to survive at all, we're going to have to come together.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. I'm Chris Cuomo in Ferguson, Missouri, where the reaction was worse than anyone expected, certainly judging by what happened and continues this morning to go on. All in response to a grand jury's decision to clear Police Officer Darren Wilson in the Michael Brown shooting.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Alisyn Camerota in New York along with Michaela Pereira. That decision sparking demonstrations from coast to coast, so we'll have more on how the whole country is reacting this morning.

But first, we want to get back out to Chris, because Chris, you were in the thick of it last night. You were trying to report while these protests were basically exploding. Tell us your -- your experience.

CUOMO: Well, and parts of Ferguson are still smoldering this morning. It is not over. We hear reports at least a dozen buildings were torched. They may have been intentionally targeted. There was violence. All of this following that grand jury ruling. There was looting, more than expected. There was gunfire; authorities say 150 shots were fired. Notably, the police say none from them.

However, they were using their own tactics. They were shooting bean bag disruptors in there, flash bangs and a lot of tear gas. And it raises the question: where was the leadership? Little if any was seen on the streets. I'm talking about the clergy and citizens. I'm talking about elected leaders and the authorities being out there to try to keep the Ferguson sky from being just a complete reflection of rage.

There were dozens of arrests made, after pleas from President Obama and Michael Brown's family, to keep things peaceful and to be the change that we all want to see in communities like this.

Meantime, transcripts of Officer Wilson's grand jury testimony have been released. The entire record is out there, so people can look through and understand why this grand jury came to the conclusion that it did or at least tried to.

But thus far, it has done little to ease the tensions where feelings about the police shooting of an unarmed black teenager are still very, very raw.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO (voice-over): Ferguson on fire after no indictment of Officer Darren Wilson. As many as a dozen buildings torched in the worst conflicts to date, as outrage ran through the streets.

Local authorities thought they were prepared, that tear gas would not be needed. They were wrong.

(on camera): Here come flash-bangs and canisters coming right up at us.

(voice-over): Live on air...

(on camera): We're getting gassed right now.

(voice-over): ... gas shot around reporters, forcing the crowds to flee. Further down the street...

(on camera): Tear gas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tear gas.

(voice-over): ... police firing more tear gas directly into the crowd. Officers trying to disburse the crowd, but there would be no control.

POLICE CHIEF JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY: I didn't see a lot of peaceful protests out there tonight. What I've seen tonight is probably much worse than the worst night we ever had in August. CUOMO: All this because a grand jury refused to indict Officer Darren

Wilson. Small groups of agitators ravaging Ferguson, looting businesses and setting fire to police cruisers. Tears streaming down the face of Michael Brown's mother after the decision was read.

ROBERT MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS COUNTY PROSECUTOR: The grand jury deliberated over two days. They determined that no probable cause exists to file any charge against Officer Wilson and returned a "no true bill" on each of the five indictments.

CUOMO: Brown's parents saying, quote, "We're profoundly disappointed that the killer of our child will not face the consequence of his actions."

Officer Darren Wilson's lawyers also releasing a statement: "Officer Wilson followed his training, followed the law."

Minutes after word of the grand jury decision, President Obama called for peace.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hurting others or destroying property is not the answer.

CUOMO: Prosecutors released all evidence presented to the grand jury, 24 volumes of transcripts reviewed by the 12 grand jurors: seven men, nine women; nine white, three black.

Also for the first time, we see photos of Officer Wilson taken immediately after he fatally shot the unarmed black teen six times. More photos of the scene itself.

We now know Wilson testified that when he first saw Brown and his friend walking in the middle of the road on the morning of August 9, he yells quote, "Hey, guys, why don't you walk on the sidewalk?" That's when Wilson says Brown walked over and slammed the police cruiser door as Wilson tried to exit. Wilson testified the teen hit him in excess of ten times, landing two blows, causing minor bruising. These photos showing a swollen right cheek, scratches on the back of his neck.

Wilson also says after a tussle over his gun, and two shots fired in the car, Brown takes off, Wilson pursuing him down the street yelling, "Get on the ground." The teen eventually stops, turns towards the officer with, quote, "an aggressive face." Officer Wilson says Brown then charges him. And when Brown was only eight to ten feet away, the officer fires two fatal shots, hitting him in the head.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: And hearing that testimony from Darren Wilson as it started to be reported last night, certainly increased the tensions here; bubbling up in Ferguson, but not just here. One of the reasons the problem in Ferguson matters is because it's felt in communities nationwide. Protests broke out in cities across the country mostly peaceful. But there were isolated pockets of violence. Nothing like what we saw here. But one involved New York City police commissioner in that city.

We'll tell you about it. Let's bring in Stephanie Elam. She's been in Ferguson all night, but she has the story -- Stephanie.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, good morning. It's really hard to fathom that we are actually in a holiday week. But after you saw what was going on last night there does seem to be very little to be thankful for, for many people in Ferguson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CHANTING)

ELAM (voice-over): Peaceful protests erupting into chaos after the announcement of no indictment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you saying? That our lives are not equal? Our lives are not worthy of not even a day in court? That's what you just said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's another example of a miscarriage of justice.

ELAM: Angry protesters clashing with police, hurling bottles, rocks and bricks at officers and the media.

(on camera): People are throwing stuff at me right now. It's that kind of scene out here right now.

(voice-over): Protesters attacking police cars, shattering the window of this cruiser as cops run in with guns drawn to disburse them. But mayhem on the streets looking like a war zone.

(on camera): Oh! Whoa!

(voice-over): Gunshots ringing out throughout the night. Flames engulfing several police cars. Buildings ablaze, roaring out of control, some burning to the ground. Firefighters stretched thin with the number of fires erupting and moving out, fearing their own safety. Widespread looting, several businesses vandalized, including Ferguson Market and Liquor, where Brown had allegedly stolen cigars before his death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to get out of the street or you will be subject to arrest.

ELAM: Police in riot gear and armored trucks, firing tear gas and smoke bombs into crowds refusing to disburse, forcing demonstrators to run.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice, no peace!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice, no peace!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice, no peace!

ELAM: Anger and frustration about the grand jury decision spreading across the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot! Hands up! Don't shoot!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot! Hands up! Don't shoot!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't shoot! Hands up! Don't shoot!

ELAM: Protesters in Chicago facing off with police as they voiced their anger.

In New York, massive crowds marching through Manhattan, reaching three major bridges with one known arrest. Protesters in Times Square even throwing fake blood at New York Police Commissioner Bill Bratton.

Demonstrators gathering outside the White House, weaving together on the ground along Pennsylvania Avenue.

In Oakland, California, protesters shut down the expressway, lying down inside chalk outlines drawn on the streets.

A similar scene in Seattle, where demonstrators dropped to the ground.

The man who simmered tensions this summer urging restraint in the aftermath of chaos.

CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: We definitely have done something here that is going to impact our community for a long time. That's not how we create change. Change is created through our voice and not through destruction of our community.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM: And one man I spoke to on West Florissant last night in the middle of the unrest, Chris, saying to me that he was upset that Officer Wilson was not indicted on at least one count.

There were a lot of people hoping that just at least one count would come through, and that would have made them feel better about the fact that he would have at least gone to trial, and that's where the anger was stemming from -- Chris.

CUOMO: There's no question that it was complicated for the grand jury, because all of the counts had to do with him being culpable for killing him as a homicide. And that's not what they found. And obviously, the unrest is going to continue. We'll just have to hope we saw the worst.

And thank you for your reporting.

Let's bring in Benjamin Crump. He's an attorney for Michael Brown's familiarly.

Counsel, it's good to have you with us. After hearing the prosecutor last night, after hearing his explanation for what was presented and how, are you able to accept the grand jury's decision? BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN'S FAMILY: Well, I think

the system should be indicted. It's problematic when you only have one side. In America, Chris, we have a Constitution that says both sides get to be vetted. And with this secret grand jury proceeding, it was troubling, because you don't know how the evidence was presented: what tone, what dish (ph) and what emphasis was given to certain things.

So Michael Brown's family is left just hollow this morning. They are just heartbroken and overcome with emotion that there won't even be a trial against the person who killed their child.

CUOMO: As much as this determination must hurt them, are they also hurt by how this community reacted to it after their calls for peace? After their calls for being the change that you want to see?

CRUMP: They are. They're overcome with emotion. They really want to try to have something positive come from the tragic death of their son. They want the legacy of the Michael Brown Law, where you have to have police all over America in all those cities you just mentioned, Chris, have to have video body cameras, so it will be transparent, and we won't have to see this scenario play out over and over again. We will know what happened when the police have interaction with citizens.

CUOMO: Is the family preparing to do anything today to help avoid a repeat of last night? Not that that's their responsibility, Counsel. They're grieving, and they have so many troubles of their own, obviously. But they have such tremendous sway in this community, and there's such a vacuum of leadership. That's why I ask.

CRUMP: It's a fair question, Chris. And they will have a press conference at 11 at St. Mark's Missionary Baptist Church right in the heart of Ferguson to ask for peace for the community. And try to talk about positive changes we can make, how we can change this system, where the local prosecutor is not sitting in judgment of the local police who they have a symbiotic relationship with, and it seems to be an inherent conflict of interest.

CUOMO: So the only problem with what you're saying, Counsel, is that a little bit, you're spreading that onto these 12 men and women who came to the decision. Because this was ultimately their reckoning, and you know the record was very thick; and we can all parse it now and see it.

CRUMP: I'm not doing that, Chris. Chris, I'm not doing that at all. Chris, I'm not doing that at all.

CUOMO: OK.

CRUMP: It is an indictment on the system. The jurors, they all come and they try to do what the prosecutors tell them. Historically, every lawyer in America would tell you, the grand jury by and large is going to do what the will of the prosecutor is. If he presents the evidence in such a way to get an indictment, he will get an indictment. If he presents the evidence in such a way not to get an indictment, he will not get an indictment.

That's why we're saying it should be an outside prosecutor. Nobody who works with the local prosecutor, saying it's an inherent conflict of interest, it has the hand of impropriety, especially in St. Louis.

CUOMO: Hearing him last night, did you pick up anything that made you feel that he was partial to Darren Wilson or that he didn't think this was a good case? Or -- anything that bothered you?

CRUMP: Michael Brown's family was very offended, not only by this process, but by some of the things that the prosecutor said last night. And they worry about how much of this was personal for him, versus being impartial and unbiased, and so that's a great concern for them, Chris.

CUOMO: Now what? That's the question. If the legal remedies on the criminal side are exhausted, unless the prosecutor decides to bring charges on his own, which does not seem likely at this point and there -- unless the federal authorities bring their own, is a civil remedy in the offer for the family? Do we think there will be something there? A wrongful death suit, perhaps?

CRUMP: That's certainly something that they are going to consider. But they really wanted the killer of their child to be held accountable, and they're going to try to focus on positive change like the Michael Brown Law.

And they want the people who are supporting them, not just to make noise, they want to make a difference. They want the legacy of their child to affect the 14-year-old kid in Louisiana who was killed by the police, the 28-year-old gentleman in New York who the police admitted they accidentally killed. He did nothing wrong. The African-American woman in California, who was police abused out there.

They want the police to be held accountable to treat us like Americans, too, so we can get equal justice. This system always allows police to hurt and kill our children. And nothing happens. And we got to change that dynamic.

CUOMO: And that's not going to happen in a grand jury, obviously. That's lot of need for community policing improvements and leadership in this community to help the people who need to be protected by the police, to have that relationship.

I'm going to ask you something, Counsel. They knew, the family knew there was going to be no indictment before the rest of us did. What was that like for them?

CRUMP: It was -- it was emotional. It was devastating. We had just prayed. And Attorney Gray was with Michael and I was with Leslie, his mother. And we prayed, and she really had faith that he was going to at least get charged with something, one of the lesser included, so they would at least have a trial.

So she was just devastated. Overcome with emotion, Chris, as only a mother could. And it was just hard. The parents were just devastated that there won't even be a trial where they won't even get a chance to have the killer of their child held accountable. And that's what so frustrating for them and everybody in Ferguson. And so, they are just hollow right now. They're empty this morning.

And with that, they're trying to find some resolution to say let's try to make a difference. Let's don't make noise. Let's try to use our voice to make real change for Michael Brown and the unknown Michael Browns.

CUOMO: Well, Counsel, thank you for joining us, and please extend our feelings to the family ,that they can deal with this as best they can right now and find a way to move forward and have something good come out of this for them and the rest of this community.

CRUMP: Thank you very much, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Alisyn, let's get back to you in New York.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. We'll tell you what's coming up, because we're going to break down the never-before-heard testimony from Darren Wilson before the grand jury. These are the words that may have cleared him.

Plus, former New York mayor, Rudy Giuliani, has been outspoken about his views on the Ferguson protests and how police have responded. He's said some controversial things. He'll join us, live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY. We're here in Ferguson, Missouri.

Since August 9, people have wanted to hear what Darren Wilson had to say about what happened with his encounter with Michael Brown. Well now, we know. His testimony and pictures of him after the shooting were revealed after the grand jury's vote.

Ana Cabrera has more for us on that, and look, this is what it came down to for the grand jury. This is what we wanted to hear about. And now we can.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We got a lot of detail from Officer Wilson in that testimony. He still hasn't been seen. He still hasn't been heard from in public, even after that grand jury decision was announced.

Clearly, he knows that he's not welcome by many people in the community that he once served, and he's lived his life, in large part, in hiding these past few months, since that fatal day in August. But we do have a much clearer picture about his side of the story, through his eyes, as he told the grand jurors.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCCULLOCH: They determined that no probable cause exists to file any charge against Officer Wilson. CABRERA (voice-over): A bombshell announcement with big implications:

no indictment against 28-year-old Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson.

MCCULLOCH: The physical and scientific evidence examined by the grand jury, combined with the witness statements supported and substantiated by that physical evidence tells the accurate and tragic story of what happened.

CABRERA: Overnight, the prosecutor releasing the contents of the entire case, including these photos of a bruised Wilson, indicating a struggle with the unarmed teen. Silent since the August 9 incident, we're now hearing from Wilson in his own words, through his testimony, about the day he fatally shot Michael Brown.

He says Brown assaulted him while he was still inside his vehicle. And that he had never used his weapon before. He said, quote, "I felt that another of those punches in my face could knock me out or worse. I've already taken two to the face, and I didn't think I would. The third one could be fatal if he hit me right."

Wilson has been in hiding for the last three months.

With anger and frustration erupting across the region following the decision not to indict, Wilson's lawyer releasing a statement, saying in part, "Law enforcement personnel must frequently make split-second and difficult decisions. Officer Wilson followed his training and followed the law."

Sources tell CNN the four-year veteran of the Ferguson Police Department, who's been out on paid administrative leave, now has plans to resign.

Through the controversy, Wilson managed to keep his personal life private, even his recent marriage to a fellow Ferguson police officer. A St. Louis County marriage license says the two wed on October 24 in Oakland, Missouri, some 15 miles south of Ferguson. The couple reportedly share a home in St. Louis. This is his second marriage, her first. But what the future holds for them, is unclear.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: And getting back to the testimony, think it's really important to point out that Officer Wilson again detailed quite a bit about what happened outside the vehicle and was adamant in multiple parts of his testimony that Michael Brown he said was running towards him, was charging him as he was continuing to fire his gun. Of course, has been maybe the lynchpin in all of the controversy over this case.

Chris, everybody still has a lot of questions for Officer Darren Wilson, even though we now know his testimony. We have reached out as an organization to him and his attorneys multiple times throughout the past couple of months, and he's declined to offer any comments or any statements. We'll have to see if that changes now moving forward, given this latest announcement. CUOMO: He's going to do an interview, and it will be important for

him and for the people who want to scrutinize his story that it is tested. That wasn't done at the grand jury. It could have been, but it wasn't done.

So Ana, thank you very much for the reporting.

And certainly, this is going to be the cornerstone of their decision as we learn more and more about the grand jury, Alisyn. They got to hear it directly from the officer involved. And obviously, it had great sway on them.

CAMEROTA: And Chris, we do want to talk more about that testimony right now. So for more on Darren Wilson's never-before-heard testimony before the grand jury, we want to bring in Paul Callan, CNN's legal analyst and criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor; and Jeffrey Toobin, CNN senior legal analyst and former prosecutor. Gentlemen, great to have you here.

Such compelling testimony. It is more than an inch thick to go through from Darren Wilson. So let me read to you and play for our viewers some excerpts from this.

This is about the altercation at the police car where Darren Wilson said that Michael Brown was able to land a couple of punches on his face. Here is what he said to the grand jury: "I felt that another of those punches in my face could knock me out or worse. I've already taken two to the face. And I didn't think I would. The third one could be fatal if he hit me right."

Now Jeffrey, that actually does not necessarily square with the photos that we see afterwards of Darren Wilson where there's no skin broken. There's not much bruising. There is a little bit on his right cheek, but he thought that these were life-threatening punches. How does the grand jury make sense of that?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the injuries, as you point out, appear to be extremely minor, barely visible at all. And as we know, Mike Brown was a 6'4", 300-pound man. You would think if he was punching someone in the face...

CAMEROTA: To kill him.

TOOBIN: The injuries would be considerably worse.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: He's also a big man, too; 6'4", 210, Officer Wilson.

TOOBIN: Exactly. Wilson is big, as well. What is incriminating to Mike Brown is the DNA evidence and the blood inside the car. There is evidence that Michael Brown was -- had his hand at least inside the car.

But again, that was not where the shooting took place. This is really the story, in many respects, of two confrontations. The one at the car, which does seem to be initiated by Mike Brown. But then the one at the -- where the shooting took place, which is 150 feet away. There, the question is, did Michael Brown keep coming in a way that required Officer Wilson to shoot him?

CAMEROTA: We have a quote from the testimony about that exact moment, as well. Let me read it to you. This is about why he decided to fire the fatal shots.

He says, "Michael Brown was just coming straight at me. Like he was going to run right through me. And when he gets about eight to ten feet away, all I see is his head. And that's when I shot."

Now, Paul, eight to ten feet away is what Darren Wilson says. The prosecutor says that the first shots were fired 150 feet from the police cruiser.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I'm not surprised that you see disparities like this all the time in witness testimony. And I think what started in the car is heavily interrelated to what happened outside the car.

Because remember, in self-defense cases, it's all about what the officer perceived as the threat. And here's what the officer has said. He has said this individual who was wanted in a robbery charge had punched him several times in the car, clearly creating a danger that he was going to get the cop's gun. The gun discharges twice in the car.

So the cop's perception is "This is a 300-pound guy who's tried to kill me in the car. I get out of the car, and at some point in time he's running toward me, and he's as close as eight feet." What's going to happen when Mike Brown is on top of the cop? The cop is thinking, "He's going to get my gun and kill me." That's his self- defense claim, which obviously, the grand jury bought.

PEREIRA: Well, and it's interesting, because we have to point out, there's -- the grand jury doesn't cross-examine the officer. He is giving this testimony sort of unmitigated (ph).

TOOBIN: They have a right to ask questions of him.

PEREIRA: I think they asked one or two.

I want to ask you about a part of the testimony, very interesting. Officer Wilson calls the area where Michael Brown was shot a hostile environment. We can pull this up.

"There's a lot of gangs that reside or associate with that area. There's a lot of violence in that area. There's a lot of gun activity, drug activity. It's not a very well-liked community. That community doesn't like the police."

Now, interesting, because there will be community advocates that point out, look, that community of Ferguson is 70 percent black. There are 50 officers that are white on the Ferguson Police Department, and there are three that are black. Well, that speaks to some people now in the aftermath of the need for more representation and different style of community policing.

TOOBIN: "Well-liked" is a fascinating phrase in the context -- in the context of that.

You know, the job of the police is to protect the community, not to be an occupying force. And that statement is -- is a sort of perfect summary of why a community policing is a good idea. Why people with some connection to a community should be the ones patrolling it.

But if we can just go back to the specifics of the -- of the shooting. You know, the question I have, and you know, I have -- can't say I have completely digested all of the testimony.

PEREIRA: There's a lot to digest.

TOOBIN: And also, there are new witnesses, including African-American witnesses, who back up Officer Wilson's story that there was Michael Brown coming forward towards -- towards Officer Wilson.

But the question I have is couldn't it have been possible to retreat and delay a confrontation for a while? Rather -- and wait for back- up, rather than shoot?

PEREIRA: One would argue that he was in the position of power. He's an officer. He has a vehicle. He has a gun. He has a badge, which means the law on his side. This was arguably -- and this is what some of the people in the community are saying, this was an unarmed teenager.

Yet the testimony shows that the grand jury seemed to believe that there -- that he perceived that there -- he was threatened.

TOOBIN: The cops have a difficult job. There is no doubt about it. And if Michael Brown was coming at Officer Wilson, as really the evidence really does seem to indicate that, that is obviously the key evidence in the jury finding no indictment. I'm just thinking perhaps there was a better way to handle this.