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Ferguson Calmer: Protesters Clash with Police; Officer Wilson Speaks Out for First Time; Officer Wilson's Lawyers Open Up about Case; Storm Prompting Messy Holiday Commute

Aired November 26, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Officer Wilson's account looms large here, certainly fuelled some of the emotions for those who took to the streets. We're told 44 arrests overnight. Now more than 100 in day two -- two days, actually.

Another police cruiser was torched, city hall vandalized, another night of a city divided.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO (voice-over): More police in riot gear. More National Guard out in the open. But still, more attempts to tear Ferguson apart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up, don't shoot!

CUOMO: A police car set ablaze by a small group of agitators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone refusing, you will be subject to arrest.

CUOMO: Police using more aggressive tactics, making arrests sooner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's the arrest.

CUOMO: Tear gas necessary again, hanging in the air, as the scent of the moment.

CAPTAIN RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI HIGHWAY PATROL: There are those that are stuck on violence that embed themselves with the peaceful protesters.

CUOMO: But all who hit the streets are outraged. What fuels their continued disobedience is obvious.

President Obama says it's not just made up that communities of color don't always believe they're being treated fairly.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's rooted in realities that have existed in this country for a long time.

CUOMO: Then came the next flashpoint, Officer Wilson saying the incident had nothing to do with race in an ABC News exclusive. GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: If Michael Brown were white, this

would have gone down in exactly the same way?

OFFICER DARREN WILSON, SHOT MICHAEL BROWN: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: No question?

WILSON: No question.

CUOMO: The officer says on that fateful morning on August 9, he saw black teenager Michael Brown and his friend walking in the middle of the street.

WILSON: I said, "Hey, come here for a minute."

And that's when he turned and said, "What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) are you going to do about it?" and slammed my door shut on me.

CUOMO: Wilson says the teen hit him in excess of ten times, causing minor bruising and that there was a tussle over his gun.

WILSON: He's going to get this gun away from me. Something's going to happen, and I'm going to be dead. So I pull it the third time, and it finally goes off.

CUOMO: Wilson admits Brown runs away, but says it was his duty to give chase.

WILSON: My job isn't to just sit and wait, you know. I have to see where this guy goes.

CUOMO: Perhaps the most important point: the officer says Brown turned and charged toward him.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Some of the eyewitnesses have said when at that moment he turned around, he turned around and put his hands up.

WILSON: That would be uncorrect [SIC] -- incorrect.

STEPHANOPOULOS: No way?

WILSON: No way.

CUOMO: Dorian Johnson, Brown's friend and witness to the shooting, says he knows exactly what he saw.

DORIAN JOHNSON, BROWN'S FRIEND: I definitely saw my friend stop and put his hands up, being compliant after being fired upon, after already being struck with a bullet wound from Officer Darren Wilson's gun.

CUOMO: Wilson says there was not anything he could have done differently to prevent killing the 18-year-old.

WILSON: He kind of starts leaning forward like he's going to tackle me. And I look down my barrel of my gun and I fired. And what I saw was his head, and that's where it went.

CUOMO: After the verdict, Brown's parents say they're profoundly disappointed.

MICHAEL BROWN SR., MICHAEL BROWN'S FATHER: I feel like they just killed him again.

CUOMO: The officer's response.

WILSON: I think those are grieving parents. They're mourning the loss of their son. I'm sorry for their son's loss of life. It wasn't the intention of that day. It's what occurred that day.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Something you think that will always haunt you?

WILSON: I don't think it's a haunting. It's always going to be something that happened.

CUOMO: The officer's response offers small consolation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Demonstrations are spreading now well beyond Ferguson. Thousands of people in New York, L.A., Chicago, Washington, Boston, Baltimore, and so many more cities, making their presence known as their voices heard again overnight.

Let's bring in Stephanie Elam, who's been in Ferguson all night. What we saw in Ferguson, a little bit of a step towards less intensity, around the rest of the country seem to be ramping up, Steph.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Chris. What we saw here is showing that what happened here in small-town Ferguson may have been about Mike Brown. But its ripple effect is going throughout the country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM (voice-over): Sirens ring out in Ferguson, Missouri, demonstrators facing off with police for the second night in a row. Tensions coming to a boil, as protesters overturn and set fire to a police cruiser after a day of relatively peaceful protests. Police and National Guard responding with a heavier hand than the night before, arresting 44 protesters, using hoses and pepper spray, to disburse the crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will get justice by any means necessary.

ELAM: This as anger over the grand jury's decision spreads across the country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we want?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice! UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When do we want it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now!

ELAM: Demonstrators flooding the streets yesterday in about 170 cities nationwide: blocking bridges, tunnels, and major highways from coast to coast.

Thousands of protesters snake their way through the streets of New York City, jamming traffic, holding signs and chanting loudly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice, no peace!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice, no peace!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice, no peace!

ELAM: Across the country in downtown Los Angeles, protesters rallied, knocking down fences and blocking the 101 Freeway with roadblocks and debris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we want a revolution?

ELAM: In Oakland, protests took a more violent turn, news helicopters capturing footage of vandals smashing windows, looting local businesses and lighting bonfires.

In Minneapolis, a moment of rage as a car plows through a group of demonstrator, running over a protestor's leg.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was honking and getting mad that people wouldn't move. And then, he just plowed through.

ELAM: According to authorities, the woman was taken to the hospital and is being treated for very minor injuries. The incident currently under investigation.

In Cincinnati, 15 demonstrators arrested after scaling concrete barriers and briefly shutting down Interstate 75.

Denver police also responding to protesters trying to move on to their interstate, using smoke bombs and pepper spray to deter the demonstrators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said mace, pull out the mace. Mace everybody.

ELAM: From Atlanta to Boston, the nation's capital, protesters taking to the streets and making their voices heard as authorities attempt to contain a growing sense of outrage across the country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ELAM: And back here in Ferguson, Chris, 44 people arrested last night during the protests and demonstrations, but I've got to tell you, standing out here and watching the end of the night, it was a much easier, much calmer transition as the protesters clear the way and the streets open back up -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Steph, stay as warm as you can. We'll check in with you later on. Appreciate the reporting as always. We are joined now by Officer Darren Wilson's attorneys, James Towey and Neil Bruntrager, also the general counsel for the St. Louis Police Officers Association. Gentlemen, thank you being out with us this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Morning, Chris. Appreciate it.

CUOMO: So let's go through some of the high points of what's going on here. OK?

Going into the grand jury, we know that there was confidence on your end that there would not be an indictment. Help us understand why. You both know, you were a prosecutor before. You're very comfortable with the system. It's such a low bar. You're putting your person in there. We know officers often go before a grand jury in these situations. You know that he's supposed to be completely attacked by prosecutors. Why the confidence? Let's start with you, Jim, that there would be no indictment?

JIM TOWEY, ATTORNEY FOR DARREN WILSON: I think because Darren told his version of the events on August 9 and on August 10 before any of the information was out there from any other witness. And so he has maintained that version of what happened with him that morning with Michael Brown. And when you have the confidence that you know you did everything you possibly could to do your job correctly, you have that confidence going forward.

CUOMO: Part of your answer goes to the speculation that he waited until he knew what was out there before he told his story. You're saying that's not true?

TOWEY: Absolutely incorrect.

CUOMO: OK. So now, you were a prosecutor. You know what happens. When I read the testimony and others do, it does not look like the prosecutor's office went after Darren Wilson's story.

Now some say, well that's because maybe they believed him, but in my experience, it doesn't matter when they believe a witness or not. They go after him. Do you believe there was an unusual acceptance of Darren Wilson's story in this grand jury?

NEIL BRUNTRAGER, ATTORNEY FOR DARREN WILSON: No, and if you look at all of the transcripts and all of the interviews, I think they handled it exactly the same way...

CUOMO: As they had done.

BRUNTRAGER: ... they did with everybody else. It was a -- it was a constant treatment. And again, I think that there were a lot of instances where they could have really drilled down on a lot of witnesses. And I think basically they let people tell their story. And then they put that in front of the grand jury.

CUOMO: Even that, Neil, is somewhat unusual in a grand jury. Do you think that there is a fair measure of criticism here? -- Look, your guy got cleared, so that part of it is over for you -- that this prosecutor's office was a little hands-off with this grand jury?

TOWEY: No. No, I can't say that, Chris.

CUOMO: Why not?

TOWEY: Because they put everything in front of the grand jury. I can't condemn someone for giving too much information. And they did everything, Chris.

CUOMO: Is that how you did grand juries, Neil?

BRUNTRAGER: Yes. Actually, I had a term in the grand jury, and that's what we did.

CUOMO: You dumped everything or you sculpted it towards your theory of why you had a case?

BRUNTRAGER: No. We tried to get as much information in front of a grand jury as we could, but we were efficient in how we did that.

This is an unusual case. So not every case are you going to do this; not every case do you need to do this. But this isn't every case, Chris. This is a different case.

TOWEY: More importantly, this was a seasoned grand jury.

CUOMO: What does that mean?

TOWEY: They were coming towards the end of their term. So they had heard many, many cases. So they're in a position where they can evaluate how they're being treated with this specific case. And grand jurors have the ability to ask any question they choose to ask.

CUOMO: You think the prosecutor wanted to make this case? He didn't charge himself, but do you think they were acting in a way like we want this case? Like they usually do?

BRUNTRAGER: No, but I don't think that they were doing the opposite, either. I think they were in a very difficult spot.

So let me say it this way, there are two ways you could have gone here. One was to a preliminary hearing, which would have been impossible.

CUOMO: Why? BRUNTRAGER: Because it would have taken weeks in order to present

this to a judge for a decision.

CUOMO: It would have been open.

BRUNTRAGER: It would have been. But then you only have one person making this decision. And you as the prosecutor would have had to file a complaint. So someone would have had to come in and aver and swear that these believe these facts to be true. So you start with a complaint.

If they don't believe that, that's a problem to start with. And you and I both know that we take oaths as lawyers. As a prosecutor you take an oath. I can't sign an averment, I can't put my signature, if I don't believe it.

CUOMO: But when you have obvious dispute about what happened, OK, unless everyone who says this guy didn't charge, didn't have his hands up, didn't need to be shot, is in-credible, you have two versions of what happened. That's enough for probable cause.

BRUNTRAGER: Now you're saying if one person says, "I've got conflict," it must be this. You had 12 people in that room. Nine of them had to agree to true bill. You presented this evidence to 12 people, drawn from the community at large. How do we condemn that? And we have to say, look, that makes good sense. Now it's unusual, but what's usual about this case?

CUOMO: Well, unfortunately, it's a little too usual. We see, you know, situations where cops get on the wrong side of who they're dealing with, and it winds up being outcry too often. And that's really a big reason we're seeing the outgrowth of this. It's not just about Darren Wilson and Michael Brown. It's what they represent. I think everybody will agree on that.

Let's look at the story specifically here. And just to your last point, nobody's faulting the grand jurors. This is about whether it should have been there and how it was conducted here. The story itself. We see the pictures. He does not look badly injured. Yet, he says he fears if he took one more blow, he may pass out or die. That was his reasonable belief. Something you would expect to be tested, no?

TOWEY: Well, here, we've talked about this already. You've been hit in the face. I've been hit in the face. You know what it feels like. This is a police officer sitting in his police car. And he's being attacked by Michael Brown. I don't know that you can second-guess how hard he was hit or how he felt about that.

CUOMO: If you look at his face? That's all I'm saying.

BRUNTRAGER: Yes, but you're looking at the face a couple of hours after the incident. The next day it looks very different.

So again -- again, the injuries are what the injuries are. His testimony was that he hit his hard enough that he thought he might lose consciousness. And here's the other thing: Don't overlook the claustrophobia of that car and don't overlook the struggle on the weapon. It's a package, and it's happening so quickly. Everything is happening together. The blows to the face, the grabbing of the weapon. All of that is happening in a very, very narrow spot.

He said, "I had to do my duty," which involved getting out and chasing the -- let's call him the assailant at that point, because the officer says he's been hit.

TOWEY: Simply it's not for an arrest purpose. It's just to keep eyes on him. Remember, he's been on his radio, and he's asked for back-up, which he anticipates will there be in 30 to 40 seconds.

CUOMO: Does he say that he never shot until the kid turned and started running toward him? He didn't fire any? Because we must have talked to ten people who said he exited that vehicle firing soon thereafter. Maybe he didn't hit him, but he was firing. The forensics show that he didn't fire except for the bullets when he was coming back toward him.

TOWEY: Correct.

BRUNTRAGER: Right. They did.

And again, you have to look at a number of things. You have to look at shell casings, there's all sorts of things that support that argument in terms of how it happened and what happened.

So again, look at -- when you're firing a weapon, obviously, you're moving, and those will bounce. But there are cones on the ground that show where those shell casings were, which support his argument that he was standing in one place.

And the blood trail shows how far he went out and that he was coming back towards the officer.

CUOMO: You get to the big question about whether or not he was charging and where Wilson's head was in terms of what he thought was a reasonable fear in that community. Those are also things that are going to remain in dispute.

The reason I'm asking you the question this way is not because I want to put Officer Wilson on trial. It's that the validity of the story of the account is only as good as it's standing up to scrutiny. And that's something if you could have seen Darren Wilson tested, going through it point by point. It doesn't have to be theatrical. It doesn't have to be belligerent. But it has to be believable. And that's something I think is still missing here.

BRUNTRAGER: And you and I know -- you and I both know, Chris, that when you look at a witness's statement, you look at the times they make the statement. You look at how many times they make the statement. You overlay those statements and you look for consistencies and inconsistencies, right? Isn't that what we do?

And in this instance, he was tested on the 9th, the day of the shooting; he was interviewed. They took notes. The 10th, they recorded that interview. That's available online. He went and spoke to the feds. He went and spoke to the grand jury. Every time they've asked him to come forward, he's come forward. And every time he has said exactly the same thing. And that's because it's the truth.

And he was tested. When he was interviewed by the feds, let me tell you, you've been there. You know what that's like. That wasn't a pleasant conversation. That wasn't, "Hey, Darren, how are you today?"

CUOMO: And it stood up and the grand jury agreed.

BRUNTRAGER: Absolutely.

CUOMO: That's the end of the day for that part of the process. Not the end for the people who heard about the decision -- Jim.

Neil, we're very close to Thanksgiving. It's going to be a tough one for a lot of folks, but hopefully, you remember your blessings. And thanks for being with us.

BRUNTRAGER: Thank you very much.

TOWEY: Thanks for having us.

CUOMO: Appreciate it.

Let's get back to you, Alisyn and Mick.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris. We'll go back to you in a second, but we have another top story to tell everyone about. Because there's a monster storm, and it's ready to belt the East Coast just as millions of people gear up for Thanksgiving and the busiest travel day of the year. Forty million travelers, Michaela, are expected to hit the road. Almost four million are going to get on airplanes, so what can they all expect?

Let's get right out to meteorologist Indra Petersons.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: A mess, I'm betting.

CAMEROTA: Well, she's smiling, which is a good sign. She's at New York's LaGuardia Airport. How is it looking, Indra?

INDRA PETERSONS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm going to continue to smile as long as I look behind me and I see that the board says on time, on time, on time, arrived, arrived, arrived. This is the story for now. We know this is going to be changing. and quickly. It's sort of like a race against the clock, hour by hour, because right now it is raining in towards the northeast. But that is going to be switching as the temperatures expected to cool by the hour. Just a few hours away, this is all going to change.

Thirty million people today in the northeast have winter weather advisories. So we know, everything is going to be switching.

Let's talk about who's going to be affected. Major airport hubs, D.C., New York City, Philly, Boston, all of these hubs today are going to be seeing that rain quickly shift over to snow in just a few hours.

As far as the timing, OK if you're out towards New York City, you've got like a couple of hours; expected to see the temperatures drop into the 30s about 10 or 11 a.m. If you're farther north, you have, like, a couple more hours, maybe about 1 p.m. before we start to get more of that wintry mix. As you go throughout the day, of course, the temperatures will cool even further. So that's what it looks like. Best chances first half of the day for air travel.

If you're hitting the roads, it's all about I-95. You go east of it, you're most likely going to be seeing rain. You go west of it, heavy amounts of snowfall. I mean, over a foot of snow can be seen out there. So this is going to get really tricky. It's going to take a lot of people on the road, off-guard. They're going to be driving in rain, and then quickly it's all going to change.

So this is what we're going to be looking at. Everything looks pretty bad in the northeast. But at least it kicks out of here by tomorrow. So the Thanksgiving Day parade, it looks good. The balloons should be flying.

But it does feel like deja vu from last year. We're standing right at an airport talking about delays, and here we go again, guys.

CAMEROTA: Well, at least it's short-lived, so thanks so much for alerting us. Indra, we'll check back with you, as well.

PEREIRA: As long as you can get to your destination, everything should go OK.

CAMEROTA: And get stuck, that's good.

PEREIRA: We can't speak to the drama of the family table, but that's another story.

All right. Ahead, Officer Darren Wilson has broken his silence. Does his story add up? We're going to break down his account of what he says happened when he shot and killed Michael Brown.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: You never even shot your gun before, and now a man is dead.

WILSON: Uh-huh. After the supervisor got there, I gave him the brief rundown of what had happened.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you tell him?

WILSON: I told him I had to shoot somebody. And he asked me why, and said, well, he had grabbed my gun and he had charged me; and he was going to kill me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you killed him first? WILSON: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Breaking his silence in an interview with ABC News, police Officer Darren Wilson said he was just doing his job when he shot and killed Michael Brown. Does his story add up?

Joining us to discuss that are HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson and private investigator and former police officer, Vincent Hill, also the author of "Playbook to a Murder."

Gentlemen, great to have you here.

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Alisyn.

Good morning, Michaela.

The interview with Darren Wilson was fascinating, the first time that we hear him in his actual own words, own voice. He was asked by George Stephanopoulos, what could he have done -- what could have happened differently that day to change the chain of events that led to the tragic killing. And here's his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILSON: If he would have gotten on the sidewalk, when -- and followed Dorian Johnson to the sidewalk, I probably never would have noticed the cigarillos. I would have gone and gotten on, continued my day; he would have continued his.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joey, it's hypothetical. It's impossible to know. But he isn't talking about what he could have done differently. He's saying that if Michael Brown would have just moved to the sidewalk, maybe none of this would ever have happened.

JACKSON: He is. That's what he's saying, Alisyn. A couple of things to keep in mind.

The first thing is, that he's an interested witness as a matter of law. What does that mean? It means that when you're an interested witness, you're interested in the outcome of the case. Therefore, obviously you look at his story through skepticism.

And when I say that, that's what the concern is concerning cross- examination. That's why you want to press the story, ask questions about the injuries, the extent of the injuries, the nature of them. How did it have you fear for your life? Why did you take the steps you did? Under what circumstances? He has to prove two things: one, that he was in imminent fear for his life and, two, that he acted reasonably under the circumstances.

CAMEROTA: But not anymore. JACKSON: That's what his narrative is doing. Well, still, because there's a federal investigation ongoing, too, and that's significant. And so he certainly has to stay to that narrative.

PEREIRA: Vincent, what's the practicality of that? As a police officer you also know the realities of calling someone over, making a stop. You can't -- you probably at any given time, as an officer, have situations arise every second that you can let somebody keep walking or you pull them over.

VINCENT HILL, FORMER POLICE OFFICER: Right. And one thing you have to remember, is officers have a split second to make a decision that could affect not only their lives, but the lives of someone else. And you know, I'm not there to take. I'm not here to take sides for Officer Wilson. But, you know, like Joey said, that he believed he was in imminent danger of his life. And that's one thing that I think is the million-dollar question.

CAMEROTA: I mean, here's the thing, Joey. Is that it feels as though something escalated. Somebody was spoiling for a fight that day. Darren Wilson says he believes that from the jump, Michael Brown was spoiling for a fight, that he was pushing the car back. He was punching him. But the witnesses say that it was Darren Wilson who was being aggressive.

And so in that situation, how does a police officer deescalate it? Let us play for you what Darren Wilson said about how it was his duty to then chase Michael Brown, he says. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILSON: My job isn't to just sit and wait. You know, I have to see where this guy goes. My goal wasn't to arrest him. My goal was to maintain a visual on him.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you felt it was your duty to give chase?

WILSON: Yes, it was. I mean, that's what we're trained to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joey, hold on, before I bring you in, I want to ask you. Is it his duty to give chase? Or could he have done something different?

HILL: Well, I think if he believes there was a crime that was being committed or something to that nature...

CAMEROTA: Well, he was punched.

HILL: Right.

CAMEROTA: So after he was punched, is it his duty to give chase?

HILL: Right, I would say yes. But you know, again, you know, he could call for back-up. There are a few things he maybe could have done prior to.

CAMEROTA: He did call for back-up, he says.

HILL: Right, right. And, you know, again maybe he could have given chase, you know. Again you have to look at, you know, did he believe he was in imminent danger, you know, based on sides, based on the surroundings, you know, things of that nature. He probably took it into account.

PEREIRA: Let's speak to that for a second, Vincent. Because I think that's a very real thing that a lot of people are struggling with. And I believe that it's a fair point.

Officer Wilson, 6'4", 210. Michael Brown, 18 years old. He was near 300 pounds, 6'4", as well. But the officer is in a position of power. He has a gun. At that point he didn't know if the officer was -- or that the young man was armed or not. But this notion of fear. He talks about Michael Brown coming at him like he was a demon. He's afraid for his life, Officer Wilson says.

The training we are told about from an officer is that you are trained to not see that fear. Help us understand that you're real people, you feel fear, but your training is supposed to sort of kick in and usurp all of that.

HILL: Right. And like you said, Michaela, police are real people. And, you know, again, when you're facing someone that outweighs you by 100 pounds, you know, I think all the training in the world would, you know, go out the window at that point and the actual fear would kick in.

You know, certain officers handle certain situations a lot differently. You know, me in that situation, I can't honestly say what I would do. I would have probably used less than lethal force, given the opportunity. But again, you know, we have to look at what Officer Wilson felt was his level.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Joey, let me play for you the one question that Darren Wilson was asked that the entire community wanted to hear and that was whether or not he feels any remorse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you feel any remorse?

WILSON: Everyone feels remorse when a life is lost. Like I told you before, I never wanted to take anybody's life. You know, that's not the good part of the job. That's the bad part of the job. So yes, there is remorse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He says he wouldn't have done anything differently that day, but yes, there is remorse. Do you think that goes far enough for the community? JACKSON: The reality is, is that what I think people wanted to see, Alisyn, is they wanted to see his story tested. And to the extent that you have a grand jury, remember what the standard is, very low. And I think the community, as a result of that, wanted to see that aired in a court of law where you have an adversarial process. That adversarial process means you answer my question.

In a grand jury remember this: the questions are asked in a grand jury, but you don't get the same scrutiny as you would when there's a defense attorney who's examining everything you're saying, the credibility of what you're saying, the reliability of what you're saying, the justifications for your actions, the lack of justifications for your actions, and after that had there been potentially, you know, an acquittal or something else, that's another matter. But not even to bring it forward, I think that's the concern and the question.

PEREIRA: And the question -- another one of the questions is are there going to be changes to police policy, police procedures going forward? We know Michael Brown's parents spoke this morning. Michael Brown's mother spoke this morning and said that she wants changes and reform, at least so that there's a measure of change for other future situations.

JACKSON: And we know, Michaela, there's apparently a 15-member commission that's been appointed by the governor. They will be examining that very issue in terms of protocols and policies and things that need to happen. And the federal government also is evaluating Ferguson and seeing about the community, any past practices, to see moving forward what can be changed so that things like this could be avoided.

PEREIRA: Joey Jackson, Vincent Hill, our thanks to you both.

HILL: Glad to be here (ph).

PEREIRA: Thanks, gentlemen.

CAMEROTA: Even in the face of anger, people in Ferguson are hoping that their community can overcome the racial tension that's gripped the city since the summer. How does the healing process begin? We will talk to a pastor there who has some ideas.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)