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New Day

Officer Wilson Breaks His Silence; How The Ferguson Community Heal?

Aired November 26, 2014 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Good to have you back with us here on NEW DAY. We'll have more on the Ferguson protests in just a moment. But let's give you a look at some of the other headlines making news today.

A man by the name of Sinan Matib, a senior ISIS leader has been killed by a coalition strike in Iraq. He is the highest-ranking casualty in the strikes that killed dozens of ISIS members on Tuesday.

Also two Minnesota men with links are facing conspiracy charges for allegedly providing material support to ISIS. Abdullah Youssef is in custody. The other man, Abdi Noor remains at large. It's thought he made his way to Syria.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: A massive storm is gearing up to slam the east coast affecting millions with holiday travel plans. It's expected to dump a dangerous mix of snow and rain from North Carolina all the way to Maine.

Airlines have already nixed hundreds of flights and delays are expected along I-95. AAA projects more than 40 million people will drive and 3.5 million people will fly this Thanksgiving holiday.

PEREIRA: A top contender to lead the Pentagon drops out of the running. Former undersecretary of defense, Michelle Flornoy has withdrawn her name from consideration due to family concerns. She had been seen as a possible choice to replace Chuck Hagel as defense secretary. Other candidates include Homeland Secretary Jeh Johnson and the current number two man at defense, Robert Work.

CAMEROTA: An alarming government report finds just 30 percent of Americans living with HIV actually have the virus in check. According to the CDC, the 2011 figures suggest some 840,000 people are not regularly taking drugs to suppress the virus, which puts others at risk of infection, the report says young people were least likely to have HIV under control.

PEREIRA: Same-sex marriage bans have been overturned in Arkansas and Mississippi, but both orders are on hold so the states can consider appeals. In Arkansas a federal judge ruled in favor of two same-sex couple, who successfully argued the ban was discriminatory and violated the constitution. A federal judge in Mississippi issued a similar ruling Tuesday writing, quote, "Things change, people change, times change."

CAMEROTA: Now for the craziest story of your morning -- do you hate air travel? Next time you feel like whining about it, think about these unlucky passengers. These passengers at Egarka Airport in Russia had to get off their plane and push it.

PEREIRA: I'm sorry, what?

CAMEROTA: They had to push it down the runway, after it got stuck in ice. This was in minus 61-degree temperatures, Michaela. The good news is the airline did give them free peanuts.

PEREIRA: That's funny. Put a little sand under the wheel. Wedge the cardboard. I have pulled too many vehicles out of snowbanks in my time.

CAMEROTA: Have you pushed your own plane?

PEREIRA: Never. I do not have my own plane. Nor have I been asked to pull a plane out of the snow. No more complaints is what you're saying about airline travel.

CAMEROTA: I would rather have a cramped seat than have to push the jet down the runway.

Meanwhile, Officer Darren Wilson is speaking out for the first time since being cleared by a grand jury. He said he had no choice but to shoot Michael Brown. Our legal panel will break down his comments down.

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Brown family came out with a statement last night, where they said, we are profoundly disappointed that the killer of our child will not face the consequences of his actions. What do you think when you hear that?

DARREN WILSON, FERGUSON POLICE OFFICER: I think those are grieving parents, who are mourning the loss of their son. Again, I'm sorry that their son lost his life. It wasn't the intention of that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounds like you don't think you were responsible.

WILSON: I did my job that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel any remorse?

WILSON: Everyone feels remorse when a life is lost.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: That was Officer Darren Wilson a day after learning he had been cleared by grand jury in the shooting death of Michael Brown. He says he feared for his life while he was in the car and that there was nothing he could have done differently.

The grand jury apparently believed him, as did the prosecutor, let's test why. Here to discuss are Paul Callan, CNN legal analyst, also a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor, as well Jeff Toobin, CNN legal analyst.

I got your intro all little messed up. They're too long and I'm tired of all the long intros, Jeffrey, a former federal prosecutor. Paul, former prosecutor as well, is the perfect guys for this segment.

Let's begin. Let's start with what the outside is here. Paul, do you believe that this grand jury went the way grand juries usually do in terms of how they're used by prosecutors?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, that's, there's a mixed answer to that question. On the federal side, you know, Jeff, I know has great familiarity with that, grand juries are handled a little bit differently than some of the states, all of the states handle their grand juries differently.

In New York, for instance, this case would be presented exactly the same way. New York County, every single cop shooting case, all evidence is presented.

A neutral charge is given to the jury and it's left totally up to the grand jury. In some other places it's handled differently. A more streamlined prosecution and cop cases might be handled differently.

CUOMO: Jeffrey, time and time again we hear prosecutors use this as a tool to get what they want. They shape and tone what is offered. If someone is subjecting themselves to a grand jury as a defendant that they are really hit with heavy questioning and we did not see that here. That's the criticism. Do you agree?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I agree with that criticism. I do think it was a very unusual process, especially for Missouri. It looked like special consideration was given to Officer Wilson as opposed to other homicide suspects.

That doesn't mean that the ultimate result of the process was wrong. I think based on the evidence I've seen that the result was defensible. But I do think this process was not appropriate under the circumstances and contributed to the outraged reaction.

CALLAN: I disagree with Jeff. I disagree strongly with Jeff on that I think the prosecutor selected -- I think that the prosecutor selected a very, very good way to handle this. Because what he essentially said was, I'm going to give all of the evidence to the grand jury.

And I'm going to remain totally neutral in my presentation and let them decide. And we know of course going back, looking at the evidence now, that the evidence that had the most problems, i.e. that didn't have corroboration with the physical evidence.

Were a lot of the versions that the Brown family was most supportive of, and a lot of prosecutors would have looked at that and said, I'm not even going to put it in front of the grand jury because I can't support it with the physical evidence.

CALLAN: Instead bending over backwards to be fair to the browns, he said I'm going to give it all to the grand jury. If they decide to accept that testimony, so be it. So what could be fairer than giving all evidence to the grand jury?

CUOMO: So you're saying that the prosecutor didn't feel strongly enough to charge, but ethically, he felt it was OK, to go ahead and give it to a grand jury anyway, but just kind of stay hands off and -- give it all to the grand jury?

TOOBIN: Well for example, here in New York, I know Robert Morgenthal, one of the longest-sitting DAs in the nation, we tell the cop to strap a gun on and be our protector and if he kills somebody and he is charged with possibly having abused his authority.

Then the citizens of a New York County should be making the decision as to whether he's charged or not charged. It's law enforcement shouldn't be involved, the D.A. shouldn't be involved, I kind of think that's a good idea.

CALLAN: Jeffrey, let me ask you this, you say the outcome was defensible. The grand jury was treated somewhat like a trial jury, it seems, they were given all of it. You decide whether or not there's something here that needs to be punished.

Essentially that's what it feels like. You don't think there was probable cause here for all the talk about forensic evidence, that you had two very distinct versions that were credible of what might have happened?

TOOBIN: There was way you could have presented probable cause, the way I was taught to be a prosecutor, is that you don't go to the grand jury and say, well, if I can get probable cause, we should go to a trial jury. The appropriate way to be a prosecutor, I think, is you only seek and obtain an indictment from the grand jury.

If you think can you get a trial jury to the point of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, sure can you get an indictment without probable cause, but it's irresponsible to proceed if you don't think there is evidence that would convince a jury.

Here, yes, there could have been probable cause found by a grand jury. But I don't think there was any way a trial jury would have found this Officer Wilson guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So I don't think the case should have proceeded beyond this stage.

CUOMO: Paul Callan, when you hear the officer's account of what happened at the car, why he feared he may be knocked unconscious or killed by another blow. Do you find that to be a believable account, a reasonable feeling?

CALLAN: Well, yes. I find it to be very, very believable. I think that the unfortunate thing is, African-Americans are, they have problems in a lot of communities in the relationship with the police.

Other minorities do Hispanic people do, sometimes, because there's a legitimate gripe here. I think the focus on Michael Brown as the poster child of this problem, when we first saw the case, witnesses say he had his hands up.

He was unarmed. He was shot by a white police officer. It looked like a blatantly racist killing and we all kind of fell into thinking this has got to be a legitimate case. Then as it developed, you get to the point there was, it started out with a strong-arm robbery by Michael Brown in a convenience store.

He's in a tussle with a cop at the very least. He's reaching into the cruiser. Trying maybe to get the cop's gun, the gun discharges twice. It becomes a very, very different incident.

I find the officer's story to be compelling and believable and in his interview he came across sort of as being not a threatening kind of guy, but sort of mild-manner and somebody who wouldn't lose his temper.

I think the grand jury must have seen that in deciding they were going to give him the benefit of the doubt and not charge him in this case.

CUOMO: Jeffrey, what's the one thing that you point to that you feel explains why this was a situation that the grand jury chose not to indict?

TOOBIN: Let me give you two, Chris. The evidence of Michael Brown's blood and DNA within the car that shows he was reaching inside the car, which is certainly an aggressive act in any circumstances.

And the other thing was, the addition of several new witnesses who had not been interviewed by the news media, who said they saw Michael Brown charging at Officer Wilson at the time of the shooting.

I think those two pieces of evidence would have made a criminal conviction of Officer Wilson impossible.

CALLAN: Chris, when I was a prosecutor, one of the things we used to say to the jury was, physical evidence has no bias, physical evidence has no memory problems, and physical evidence doesn't lie and the physical evidence seems to support the officer's story and not the story of the independent eye witnesses.

CUOMO: Paul Callan, Jeffrey Toobin, there was a lot of skepticism about what happened. I was presenting it to you. Thank you for the thoughtful replies. Appreciate it as always.

All the negativity that we hear and see and feel in Ferguson has taken a toll on the community. That's for sure. What will allow healing? How does the community change and come together?

That has to happen at some point. We have a pastor from Ferguson. He is making that part of his job. And he'll talk about how he hopes to do it. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: For all the anger, the frustration, the protests and the grieving in Ferguson will must come a time to heal, hopefully sooner rather than later. With so much hostility remaining, especially racial tension how does this community get to where it needs to be?

We have somebody who is working on that very hard. He is Pastor Robert White is with the Peace of Mind Church of Happiness here in Ferguson and he's with me once again. Good to see you, Pastor.

Saw a little bit of a change last night but that's a quantitative change, not a qualitative change. The anger and desperation is real but most importantly the sense you get young and old of it will never be better. It will never be better. You hear that. You feel it in different ways. What do you do with that?

PASTOR ROBERT WHITE, PEACE OF MIND, CHURCH OF HAPPINESS: First thing we try to do, what we've been doing since August is we're starting with those who are listening, because with any conversation you have to be able to speak your mind as well as listen.

We brought in experts from all over the world who have volunteered their time to come in and counsel these youth, counsel these families who have gone through this and what we have to do is to have the dialogue of accountability, for those who have been testing on us.

Governor Nixon said in August, this is a test and it seemed like last night and the night before it's continued to be a test on the citizens of this community.

CUOMO: It's a test on both sides, right? How do you think your leaders have stood up to the test in terms of how they're presenting themselves to this community as people who want to make it better?

WHITE: Well, we talked with that off camera, I mean, I didn't wake up to be considered a leader for this cause and so we're learning on the run, and I'm willing to be held accountable for the mistakes that I have made.

But the true thing is, what is the spirit of what we're trying to do. If we all are here trying to preserve life, trying to have a better life for the citizens, the taxpayers of this community, all taxpayers, young, old, black, white, Christian, Jew, none religious, we all have to work together in that spirit of un unity.

CUOMO: Don't you think you should see your elected here at night? It's kind of dangerous but not that dangerous and it may be less dangerous if they were talking to the crowd, giving speeches, why not?

WHITE: Every life matters. I agree with you, Chris, we need to call upon those elected officials, we also need to call on those greater leaders of those bigger churches, of those businesses, to come out here and let the people see your face, let them see your support.

I t shouldn't just be the grassroots leaders, folks who didn't ask for this. The ones who were chosen, the ones expected to out here. We all need to be out here working together.

CUOMO: You got a big us/them problem here right now and you got two steps to it. First is the "us" and let's deal with the black us.

WHITE: Absolutely.

CUOMO: You will keep hearing you got to get your communities in order, if there weren't so many exchanges with the police, you wouldn't have these problems. To the extent that is true at all, what do you do with that? Nobody wants to be blamed for a problem that they believe is unfair to begin with.

WHITE: Dr. Edward Hainey, who was my mentor coming up. He taught me, if it is to be, it is to be by me. If we find fault that we are responsible for, let's not look outside. So what we're doing in these schools with clergy we're going into the schools and high schools and talking to the students about being accountable for self.

Let's make sure we're educated, let's make sure we're informed and let's make sure we're doing our part to keep the peace. Once we do that internally we can do that with the forces affecting what we're trying to do, but it has to happen simultaneously. If we're working on the inside, the outside forces have to be accountable.

CUOMO: Tomorrow is Thanksgiving, and it is going to be a hard one. What is the message at this time when we're supposed to count our blessings, when what's going on right now in Ferguson is counting the ways that people believe there will be mystery.

WHITE: We have to be thankful for the preservation of life. Unfortunately the Brown family are not going to be thankful that I have a feeling I will be.

It is not going to be here, but what we can be thankful for is America affords us the opportunity to have a conversation, to have a discussion and to try to do better. So we can't change what happened yesterday. We can't even change what happened early on today.

What we can do is be thankful for the opportunity for a brighter tomorrow. The sun is coming up. It's a beautiful sky outside. Let's try to maintain that beauty throughout the day so when night falls, we're not bombarded with tear gas, violence, riots and looting, but we're bombarded with what this country was built on and that's opportunity.

CUOMO: We call the show NEW DAY for a reason, it comes with the promise that things are going to be better and that there is always hope and you know that we are here to help.

WHITE: Thanks.

CUOMO: Pastor, I wish you the best of Thanksgiving if I don't see you but I have a feeling I will.

WHITE: Same to you as well. CUOMO: For the first time we're hearing at the other man at the center of this, Officer Wilson, speaking about what happened from his own perspective.

Protests erupting for a second night in Ferguson, the day after businesses, cars, and a sense of community were burned to the ground. We're going to speak with an attorney for Michael Brown's family about what happens next.

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