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Military on Alert after CIA Torture Report Released; Interview with David Remes, Lawyer for 18 Guantanomo Bay Detainees; NYC Protesters Submit List of Demands

Aired December 10, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The president was responding to Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Dianne Feinstein's damning report on CIA interrogations that said detainees were waterboarded, kept in dungeon conditions, while others were naked, hooded and dragged, while being slapped and punched.

The report said the agency misled the Bush administration about the program and that no CIA officer, up to and including CIA directors, briefed the president on the tactics before April 2006. In response to the report, CIA Director John Brennan said the brutal tactics "did produce intelligence that helped thwart attack plans, capture terrorists and save lives."

Feinstein told CNN that's wrong.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA), HOUSE INTELLIGENCE CHAIRWOMAN: An examination of the records going back to the beginning of the program indicates that this is simply not true.

ACOSTA: But three former CIA directors say their program helped lead to the killing of Osama bin Laden. In an op-ed in the "Wall Street Journal," George Tenet, Michael Hayden and Porter Goss insisted they suspected bin Laden was planning to blow up New York City with a nuclear weapon, adding, "It felt like the classic 'ticking time bomb' scenario -- every single day."

Many top Republicans accuse Feinstein of unleashing a political attack.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: It's very clear this appears to be simply an attempt to rewrite history by the Democrats; to bash the Bush administration.

ACOSTA: But one GOP senator, John McCain, a former prisoner of war, defended the report, saying torture does not work.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Now the president was careful not to label these harsh interrogation tactics crimes. And so far, the Justice Department has given no indication that it's going to prosecute former CIA officials for what happened. And asked whether or not the president still stands by his claim that these interrogation tactics amounted to torture, a top White House official said yes -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Jim. That gets into the issue of the legal clearance that was given. And there are two versions of that, as well. So there's more to sort out. Thank you for the reporting. Alisyn, over to you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris. Our next guest represents 18 Guantanamo Bay detainees and has heard their stories about how they were treated in detention. David Remes joins us now from Washington.

Mr. Remes, thanks for being here.

DAVID REMES, LAWYER REPRESENTING 18 GUANTANOM BAY DETAINEES: Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: What have your clients told you about their experience during CIA interrogations?

REMES: I have one client, Abu Salam al-Hila (ph), who experienced exactly what the report talks about. He was put in a secret CIA prison, stripped, put in a lightless room, bombarded with loud music, taken into interrogation, where strobe lights were shown in his -- in his eyes. Chained to the wall so he couldn't sleep. Everything is documented in his case. And in the case of other clients that I have.

CAMEROTA: There are other things that are documented in that particular detainee's case. And I want to read these, because this is apparently the information that he had, that he knew, that they could have gotten out of him. This is according to a 2008 Department of Defense assessment.

They say that your client, he had foreknowledge of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. He also had foreknowledge of the 2000 attack on the USS Cole. He also had knowledge of a meeting that involved al Qaeda members planning other attacks.

Now, if they could have gotten information out of him before these things -- obviously, he was detained after these things happened. But since he was in the know, and since he did have knowledge, even of future attacks, they believed, because of this al Qaeda meeting, couldn't you make the argument that whatever they did to him, if they kept him awake for 180 hours, it would have been worth it to spare people's lives?

REMES: You're assuming that what the government says he did is true. This is like an indictment. The defense has not made its case and can't make its case, because most of the information that's relevant is kept classified.

CAMEROTA: Look, I'm assuming what they say is true, because you're assuming what your client says is true. You are taking your client's position and I'm -- I can only go by what the Department of Defense tells us, and on face value it seems as though that client was connected enough that he might have had some sort of life-saving information. And many people would say that, if they could have gotten that out of him before an attack, that it would have been worth it.

REMES: I don't except the premise. The government has not introduced evidence or provided any support for its claims. I just think on the face of it you're looking at what the government said and not what happened. This is the problem. They can make the accusations; we cannot respond to the accusations.

But I think the important thing here is the report itself. The report is too little, too late. It conceals more than it reveals. It doesn't follow the chain of responsibility up the command. Congress didn't act when it could have acted to prevent torture, and now the report itself comes out five years after there were really strong calls for accountability.

It's really -- it's really focusing direction, as all of these broadcasts show, on the fact that we did bad things and what the bad things were. Well, we knew we did bad things. We knew what they were. But that's what people focus on, rather than the lack of accountability and responsibility.

CAMEROTA: So Mr. Remes, what are you calling for today?

REMES: Well, if I were to have my requests honored, there would be prosecution. There would be prosecutions all the way up the chain to Vice President Cheney and President Bush himself for the crimes that they authorized. And also lower down officials for the crimes they sanctioned and committed. I think accountability is the key here.

CAMEROTA: Here's what President Obama said yesterday on Telemundo about the CIA And people trying to do their jobs. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's important for us not to paint a broad brush about all the incredible dedicated professionals in our intelligence community. But I think it is also important for us to face up to the fact that when countries are threatened, oftentimes they act rashly in ways that, in retrospect, were wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Now that President Obama is saying that there were clearly wrongs done here, do you think that there will ever be prosecutions?

REMES: No, I don't think so. America rarely holds its officials responsible. In fact the maximum responsibility that's placed is publicity about what people did.

If this report had come out in 2009, when President Obama was suggesting that officials be held responsible, it might have had an impact. But the CIA was allowed to slow-road it for five years, and now it's really an historical document more than an action document. CAMEROTA: Mr. Remes, are you comfortable that, if your clients were

released from Guantanamo, that they would go back to the battle?

REMES: I don't believe that they were in the battle in the first place. There's the premise again. The government has not shown that. I have 19 clients. I've had two dozen over the years. These men have been in Guantanamo for 13 years. The world has changed; they have changed. We've really moved on from 9/11. This -- this report is really stuck in the past. It's an anachronism.

CAMEROTA: Do you believe that we will now see Guantanamo close?

REMES: I do not. I don't, because Congress will not allow President Obama to bring the detainees into the United States. There will be detainees that we can't transfer, because we can't find countries to take them. And detainees that we won't transfer, because the government thinks that they're too dangerous to release. Where do they go? Not to the United States. They stay at Guantanamo.

CAMEROTA: David Remes, thanks so much for joining us on NEW DAY. It's great to get your perspective.

REMES: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Michaela for some other headlines.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: and we start with some live pictures of a wonderful ceremony happening right now, Malala Yousafzai is being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize this morning for advocating for the right to an education for young girls. We're showing a live look at the ceremony under way in Oslo, Norway.

Malala is the youngest Nobel laureate. Of course, you remember, she survived a near fatal attack by the Taliban back in 2002. Sitting by her side, also being honored -- they will share the prize -- Kailash Satyarthi. He gave up his career as an electrical engineer to campaign against child labor. So wonderful to see that ceremony going on. A special day for both of them and for the fight for children's rights around the globe.

New rules developed by a safety task force call for commercial planes to be tracked every 15 minutes. This measure is being implemented, of course, in the wake of the disappearance of Malaysia Flight 370. It calls for the tracking of planes, no matter where they are, even over water or remote areas. Airlines with planes that are not equipped with the proper tracking equipment have been given a one-year deadline to install it.

Another black eye for the IRS. An inspector-general's report found that the agency paid at least $6 billion in child tax credits in 2013 to people who were not eligible. Those payments went to families who either mistakenly claimed the tax credit or put in for the wrong amount, along of course, with taxpayers who committed fraud. The $1,000 per child tax credit is one of the nation's biggest tax breaks for working families. OK. This story is kind of amazing. They don't cover contractions in

the preflight instructions, but a Southwest Airlines crew was ready when a passenger went into labor just after takeoff Tuesday. The crew, along with the help of a doctor and nurse who happened to be on board, delivered the newborn. That plane was headed from San Francisco to Phoenix, a short flight, thankfully. It was diverted to Los Angeles, though, and it was met by paramedics, who boarded the plane and took the mother and child to a local hospital. Both are said to be doing just fine. But it does bring up an interesting question.

CUOMO: Yes.

PEREIRA: Location of birth?

CAMEROTA: Ah.

PEREIRA: What do you put on the birth certificate?

CAMEROTA: Thirty-thousand feet.

PEREIRA: Flight 632, SWA? Right?

You have to start your air miles program early, though. Nice and early.

CAMEROTA: Frequent baby flyer. I like that. Thank you, Michaela.

Well, they've been protesting in New York ever since the Eric Garner grand jury decision. So what are their demands, exactly? We will talk to the protest organizers about what they hope to accomplish.

CUOMO: To figure out who is "they," by the way, is the first group to come around. And we have a list of 2016 presidential candidates. We're kind of keeping it loosely, but it's a little bit more clear this morning. One Republican confirms he's in. Who is it? Why? We're going to tell you. John King, actually, "Inside Politics."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. It's been a week since the Eric Garner grand jury decision, but the protests continue. We know the motivation, or at least we should. We now know what change is demanded.

Let's bring in this morning Michael Skolnik. He's the political director for Russell Simmons. He's also on the board of advisers for the Gathering for Justice. We also have Carmen Perez, the executive director of the Gathering for Justice. And Cherrell Brown, national organizer for Equal Justice USA. Carmen and Cherrell are also involved in Justice League NYC. It's a task force of social and criminal justice advocates.

And the reason I'm going through all the introductions -- thank you for being here -- is because this is more than just disparate groups. Now we're seeing organization around principles. Fair point? MICHAEL SKOLNIK, BOARD OF ADVISORS, GATHERING FOR JUSTICE: Absolutely fair point. I mean, Carmen and Cherrell have been the main organizers of bringing us together. So they have done an incredible job of organizing folks around this city. And folks around the country have come to New York to support this movement.

CUOMO: Now, one thing that has been whispered when we were covering the big early protests in New York, so big, people saying, "Ah, it's just the Occupy people. They're back; this is what they do." Is that true?

CARMEN PEREZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GATHERING FOR JUSTICE: No, it's not. I mean, there are people from Occupy that are a part of this movement. And we are organizers and we've come together to make an impact.

CUOMO: OK. Cherrell, what is an international day of action? That's what you're calling for today. What is that?

CHERRELL BROWN, NATIONAL ORGANIZER, EQUAL JUSTICE USA: Well, our international day of action looks, for context, today is International Human Rights Day. This is a global call that black and brown lives matter, not just here in the U.S. but abroad. This is a show of solidarity with the students in Mexico. This is a show of solidarity with the black and brown lives over in London, in the Middle East, in Africa and just a call this is not only just an American problem, but an international problem; and it needs an international scope.

CUOMO: All right. And the list of demands, I don't like calling it that. But you know, in the graphic that came out, it is framed that way. What do you want to see change? I don't like this dialogue of "What do you want? What are the demands?" It makes it seem so hostile and adversarial. But really, this is about change for everybody. And what are those changes?

SKOLNIK: Well, I think, you know, the first and foremost thing is we have to look at how we prosecute these cases. And there should be a special prosecutor for any time a police officer is involved in excessive force or any deadly force or killing of an unarmed civilian.

CUOMO: Why?

SKOLNIK: Because if you look at state -- local county prosecutors, they work with police every single day.

CUOMO: Every day.

SKOLNIK: Right? They're their team. They need them in the courtroom. They need them to make arrests. So they're a partner team. So it's very difficult. It's almost a conflict of interest to prosecute their own.

CUOMO: But they say the only people who brought cops to justice are these same prosecutors. That's how they put it. They say, "Basically, you're saying I can't do my job. You're saying I can't be fair." Do you think that's the reality? Do we have to take it case by case?

SKOLNIK: Since Amadou Diallo was killed in New York City, 179 people have been killed by police officers in this city. Only two have been indicted in this city in the past 15 years. So I would push back that they have not done their job, and 27 percent of them, Chris, are unarmed.

CUOMO: Well, you're making an assumption. It's like, if I had done that, it would be, "Oh, boy, this guy really got away with something." We're talking about police officers. Use of force is part of the job. Overwhelmingly, people they wind up using force on will wind up being criminal people. So it's a little bit of a misleading statistic, no?

SKOLNIK: Not necessarily, because we're seeing things like Eric Garner, seeing things on tape. We're actually seeing the death happen, and they're not getting -- not even getting to trial. Forget even getting charged with a crime. Not even getting to trial. So we're only asking for an indictment. We're not asking for a guilty verdict.

CUOMO: Right. You know, this comes down to people, right. Because you have grand jury, just people like you, people like me. They're given the evidence; they make a decision. You don't like the decision. Do you think that it was intentional, that they were trying to hide from the truth here? How do you explain why, in Ferguson and here, you had groups of regular folks who see the stuff and say, "I don't see it"?

PEREZ: I believe it's biased. I definitely believe there's a bias in the system. And so those that are making it to become part of the jury, aren't necessarily the people that represent our communities. And so we want to see a change in that.

CUOMO: What do you want to see?

PEREZ: We want to see a change in -- we want our people to be part of that jury process. But oftentimes we have to go to work. We're not able. We get screened rather quickly, and we're not part of the actual...

CUOMO: Who is "we," by the way?

PEREZ: The people that are affected by these policies. That's who we are. We are impacted by these issues, and that's why we're out on the streets.

CUOMO: Now you'll hear people from the white community and the Asian community say, "Hey, we get it, too, by the way," and probably in raw numbers, they get it more. Right? Because you're dealing with percentages of population. So do you want to be careful about being exclusionary?

PEREZ: I think we're being very inclusive in the work that we're doing. I mean, if you look at Justice League, we're a group of young diverse people. We're from all different cultures, all different nations, and so we're being very inclusive.

But -- but this impacts black and Latino communities more, and that's what we're seeing, is that Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Oscar Grant, Troy Davi -- all -- these are black men that are being killed here in America. And we want to see that stop.

CUOMO: The...

BROWN: I also want to add black men and women. There is power in naming anti-black sentiments what they are, right? Police violence, police brutality, anti-black police violence isn't just anecdotal, right? It's not just a story. It's systemic and institutional. And we have to recognize that.

CUOMO: And easy to say, tough to do. Right? Because the first risk is you wind up demonizing all the people who keep us safe. So you want to wind up figuring out, well, who exactly is your problem? And, you know, throwing out words: "institutional," "systemic." But what do you mean? Like do you think that the cops are just set up to abuse these populations or do you think it's something else?

BROWN: I think that some of the policies that are in place are antiquated. I do think some of the policies in place are racist and classist. You know, we've heard Bratton come out and talk about seeing that there's a problem. But he's holding steadfast, right, to policies that don't work. Policies that are responsible for the death of Eric Garner. Policies like the broken windows policy that I believe do disproportionately affect poor communities and specifically black poor communities.

CUOMO: Low crime isn't enough. It's low crime at what price?

Let me ask you one other question, as we develop -- because this is an evolving conversation. Like that's the real problem. What do you do when there's no more crisis? Why are we covering it right now? Well, we're in crisis. What happens when there is no crisis? Hopefully, you know, the media stands up. You know you can always come here.

Let me ask you this, though. Out in Berkeley, these are not protests; they were riots. There were a lot of riots. There's a difference, OK. When the goal of the organization and the movement is violence, that's not a protest. That's not what our law protects. What do you think about the people who are doing that. What is your message to them?

SKOLNIK: We would never, ever, ever condone any sort of violence.

CUOMO: But you know what happens. When you say, "We want this or else," people start filling in what "or else" means.

SKOLNIK: Some people.

CUOMO: right.

SKOLNIK: Ninety-nine percent of those who are in the streets across this country have been peaceful. We actually commend the mayor of the city and the police commissioner for allowing these protests to happen and sort of stand back a little bit. And we've been in the streets every single night, and we will be on the streets every night until these demands are met.

But we are peaceful. But we are also -- you know, angry does not mean violent. Let us -- let us remember that. Just because we're angry does not mean we are violent. And the folks in Berkeley. You're right to some extent, Chris, but you're also wrong to some extent.

There are some folks have been violent. But the majority of them have not been violent.

CUOMO: That's absolutely true.

SKOLNIK: And same thing in Ferguson, yes, there are folks who burned some buildings and folks who burned some cars, but 99 percent of those young folks who were on the streets for 100 plus days were exercising their First Amendment rights.

BROWN: And I want to get into the practice of not just having all these conversations central around pathologizing the response to trauma and the response to oppression, right? The conversation needs to be centered around pathologizing white supremacy and why an officer can kill black and brown people and get away with it in this country, right?

CUOMO: If you want to say that excessive force is wrong and violence is wrong, then you do not want to be the problem that you're trying to expose.

BROWN: So what's happening, what's happening a lot, what I see, especially in Ferguson, is it's almost as if I hit you, but the cameras only come on when you hit me back, right? And that's largely what's been down -- happening down in Ferguson.

I was there early on when a lot of the protests were simply people just wanting to express their moral outrage and kind of also come together to mourn. And cops showed up in riot gear and shields. So you are telling me, before you say any words, that you already think that I'm going to be violent. That is provocation, right?

CUOMO: It's a problematic dynamic. We've all seen it play out. Hopefully, we start moving towards the progress part of this conversation. That's why we're here.

Cherrell, Carmen, Michael, thank you very much.

PEREZ: Thank you for having me.

CUOMO: Keep the conversation going, being safe.

SKOLNIK: Thank you.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. Congress says it has a deal to keep the government running, so what exactly is in this giant bill they want to pass? John King has the answers, "Inside Politics."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Let's give you a look at your headlines now.

Security is heightened at U.S. military bases and diplomatic posts around the nation, around the world, rather, following the release of the Senate's bombshell CIA torture report. The agency is accused of sexually abusing detainees in dark rooms, beating them and forcing them to go without sleep for days. The president, in reaction, slamming these tactics.

Meantime, the head of the CIA remains unapologetic, claiming the enhanced interrogations helped thwart terror attacks.

Protests from coast to coast over the police killings of unarmed black men in New York. Law enforcement officials are promising to rebuild trust. That, however, did not stop demonstrators from jamming Grand Central Station to reenact the chokehold death of Eric Garner. In Berkeley, protesters marching through downtown, halting traffic on a state freeway. A plan to take -- overtake, rather, a city council meeting was dashed when the mayor canceled the meeting.

Heavy rain book-ending the nation today. Folks in the east getting drenched as a nor'easter promises to hang out for a few more days. It has already dumped about three inches of rain on the New York's airports. And on the West Coast, folks there, you can expect some heavy rains, up to five inches in some places, and along with that, some potentially damaging winds.

Let me tell you about this miracle at sea. Imagine this: 67-year-old fisherman Ron Ingraham found alive 12 days after his boat went missing in the Pacific Ocean. Search crews covered about 12,000 miles looking for him when that first mayday call came in. They couldn't find him, and eventually, the search was called off.

On Tuesday, though, another mayday call came. This time they found him, 65 miles off Honolulu. They found him. Ingraham was weak. He was hungry, clearly dehydrated, but very much alive. He is currently aboard a Coast Guard cutter and headed to terra firma.

CAMEROTA: Wow.

PEREIRA: Twelve days.

CAMEROTA: After they had called off one of the searches. That's incredible.

CUOMO: Amazing.

PEREIRA: Sixty-seven.

CUOMO: I just heard you say that, and I was like, "Where is terra firma?" Oh, wait, I get it.

All right, let's get "Inside Politics" on NEW DAY with John King -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Your brain is still a little detached after that tough Angelina Jolie interview. You'll get...

CUOMO: Don't hate me. Don't hate. Appreciate.

KING: That's total appreciation. That was jealousy. That was envy. That was not hate. Trust me, my friend.

Good morning, Alisyn, Michaela and Chris. Good morning to you.

Let's go "Inside Politics" this morning, a very, very busy time. It's supposed to be sleepy December in Washington, but it's not. With me this morning to share their reporting and their insights, Nia Malika Henderson of the "Washington Post" and CNN's Peter Hamby.

We should apologize to the American people. Only in Washington can you have something called a cromnibus. That is a continuing resolution. That's how we fund the government these days. We don't pass budgets any more. We do continuing resolutions. And an omnibus spending act, and you put them together, and you get what they're calling in that building behind me the cromnibus.

They have a deal. Democrats and Republicans actually negotiated. They actually say there was give and take on both sides. That word compromise. The question is: can Tea Party forces gum this up and will the government shut down? This morning, it looks like no. Maybe they'll gum it up for a day or two but the government will stay open.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, "THE WASHINGTON POST: Yes, there were a lot of questions, the Tea Party; also questions about whether Nancy Pelosi would get behind this. She has said that she probably will be able to, she hops that she'll be able to. So it looks like all those fights that we were so used to on the eleventh hour and delaying our Christmas and holiday plans, it looks like, so far, they're able to avoid it. We'll have to see what happens over the next few days (ph).

KING: Remember -- hang on, just one second -- remember the Democrats still run the Senate. That will change in January, but for the next couple of weeks, the Democrats still run the Senate. So in these negotiations, the Republicans said they needed a couple of things to give their support.