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Senate Releases Report on CIA Interrogation Techniques; Release of CIA Interrogation Techniques Report Analyzed; Interview with Reggie Love

Aired December 10, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Ineffective and brutal, that's what a Senate report concludes about the CIA's torture tactics after 9/11. The gruesome findings reveal disturbing methods of interrogation. Did the spy agency go rogue? The debate over the political implications heats up.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: President Obama gets personal about race issues relations in the United States. We'll talk with the president's former personal aide. Is the president doing enough in the aftermath of the Michael Brown and Eric Garner cases? Will this be President Obama's legacy?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Angelina Jolie talks about waging her battle with breast cancer while making her own movie and how she's trying to make the world a better place.

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan and Michaela Pereira.

CAMEROTA: It stopped raining for a minute.

CUOMO: Yes, and only a minute. Good morning, welcome back to NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, December 10th, just after 8:00 in the east. Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota here and it is only a matter of time before terrorists strike. Those are not my words. Those are the words of top U.S. officials worried about the release of the CIA torture report.

CAMEROTA: This as more questions surface about how the agency got their methods approved and why agents used the brutal tactics when they were reportedly not effective. Let's get right to senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta. What do we know, Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn. President Obama is standing by the release of this torture report, saying mistakes were made. But former top CIA officials are only beginning to speak out, and they are defending their actions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ACOSTA: It was stinging criticism for the CIA from a sitting president. In an interview with Telemundo, President Obama said the agency was wrong to use harsh interrogation techniques on terror detainees after the 9/11 attacks that amounted to torture.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think in the midst of a national trauma and uncertainty as to whether these attacks were going to repeat themselves, what's clear is that the CIA set up something very fast without a lot of forethought to what the ramifications might be.

ACOSTA: The president was responding to Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Dianne Feinstein's damning report on CIA interrogations that said detainees were waterboarded, kept in dungeon conditions, while others naked, hooded and dragged while being slapped and punched. The report said the agency misled the Bush administration about the program and that no CIA officer up to and including CIA directors briefed the president on the tactics before April, 2006. In response to the report, CIA director John Brennan said the brutal tactics did produce intelligence that helped thwart attack plans, capture terrorists, and save lives. Feinstein told CNN that's wrong.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN, (D) CALIFORNIA: An examination of the records going back to the beginning of the program indicates that this is simply not true.

ACOSTA: But three former CIA directors say their program helped lead to the killing of Usama bin Laden. In an op-ed in the "Wall Street Journal" George Tenet, Michael Hayden, and Porter Goss insisted they suspected bin Laden was planning to blow up New York City with a nuclear weapon, adding it felt like the classic ticking time bomb scenario every single day. Many top Republicans accuse Feinstein of unleashing a political attack.

SEN. JOHN THUNE, (R) SOUTH DAKOTA: It is very clear this appears simply to be an attempt to rewrite history by the Democrats to bash the Bush administration.

ACOSTA: But one GOP senator, John McCain, a former prisoner of war, defended the report, saying torture does not work.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: And the president was careful not to call these harsh interrogation tactics crimes and so far the Justice Department has given no indication it plans to prosecute any former CIA officials for what happened. Asked whether the president still stands by his claim the harsh tactics amounted to torture, White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said yes. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: This debate continues about those tactics. Jim Acosta, thanks so much. And on the heels of the CIA torture report federal officials are warning law enforcement agencies nationwide to be on alert for a terrorist response. CNN's justice correspondent Pamela Brown is following that part of the story. She is live for us in Washington. Good morning, Pamela.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Alisyn. That's right, the FBI and DHS sent out a joint bulletin warning agencies across the country that terrorists may want to exploit the findings in this torture memo as propaganda, use it as a recruiting tool. The bulletin also warns that it could spark online reaction and eventually influence homegrown violent extremists.

The big concern in talking to law enforcement sources is that even though the memo is unlikely to lead to violence in the near term, it could eventually enflame extremists as it circulates on social media and picks up steam.

Also, director of the FBI James Comey met with reporters yesterday in a roundtable session and he echoed that sentiment, saying the concern in the FBI is whether this memo will generate any activity overseas or from homegrown violent extremists. Important to point out, though, that so far, according to sources, there's no new intelligence indicating any threats associated with the torture memo. Alisyn and Chris?

CAMEROTA: OK, Pamela, thanks so much for the update. Chris?

CUOMO: Now much of the debate here is falling along political lines, so let's test both sides, shall we? We have CNN political commentator and Republican strategist, Ana Navarro, and Democratic Strategist and writer for TheNewYorker.com, Richard Socarides. It's good to have you both here, so let's get after it. I'll start with you, Socarides. You Democrats, why are you doing this? This is not new. People have known about this. You stopped the program yourselves or you at least give yourselves credit for it. Why come out with this report right now and compromise national security?

RICHARD SOCARIDES, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think because the American people deserve the truth, and this is the first comprehensive, complete report on what actually happened. And the only way we can move beyond this as a country is to know the full truth. Truth is an American value and I think it's very important that we know what happened so that we can move beyond this and make sure it never happens again.

CUOMO: Why didn't you interview anyone from the CIA involved in this practice?

SOCARIDES: Well, you know, I think that's a little bit of a smoke screen. Before I was in government, I was a trial lawyer, and we know that documentary proof, written proof, contemporaneous memos are often better proof than talking to the person after the fact. And the committee review of the 6 million pages of memos and contemporaneous accounts of what happened, so they have better than interviews with people trying to cover up what happened now. They had documents, reports of what actually happened while it was happening. And they also had access to testimony. It's not like no one ever had the opportunity to make the case on the other side, so I think that's a little bit of a smoke screen.

CUOMO: They're making it right now. I think you're blowing smoke at my smoke screen, Socarides. Ana, let me ask you. You say you shouldn't have released this report. Why?

ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Because it increases the risks and increases the threats to Americans all around the world because we are in the midst of one of the most volatile times I think that any of us can remember where we're seeing Americans being taken hostage and Americans being beheaded. There's just so much volatility around the world right now. Take a look anywhere around the world, because it poked our allies who helped us in some of this, where some of the venues were, it puts them in a difficult position.

And you know, I agree with everything that Richard has said, not the evidentiary documentary part because they are spooks, they don't put things in writing. This is not like a legal case and I think it is very important if you're going to put something of this magnitude out that you do try to get at least the perception of both sides and this looks very one-sided, which is very out of character for Dianne Feinstein and the Intel committee, because I have always been a fan of how bipartisan she has always led this committee, how well she's worked with Saxby Chambliss, the Republican who is the ranking member.

And I agree with, yes, Americans are all about the truth, yes, we cannot do this again, should not do this again. This is not a good thing for our history. But is this the right time for this soul- searching, for this hand-wringing? If it puts one American life at greater risk, the answer for me and I think for many other Americans is no.

CUOMO: That's a tough test. You have to ask whether you'd ever stop anything if that's the test, one more American life at risk.

Let me ask you this, Ana, here's the problem that you've created now on the other side. The CIA almost categorically denies everything in this report, OK? Now that's a problem, because you may wind up having the people that you need to be trusted on some level, whatever their reputation, coming out and either lying, spinning, or somehow misrepresenting in a way that may hurt their reputation perhaps in a way that's going to be tough to fix.

NAVARRO: It is. It's a very difficult position right now, because you've got a report that says one thing. You've got people that we're supposed to trust and that are the ones that briefed the nation, briefed the Congress, briefed the Senate saying another thing. You've got people who were there saying things that are completely different. So it's very hard to discern what the truth is.

CUOMO: And you hear that side --

NAVARRO: There are things that happen, Chris, that are not the way things are supposed to be done by Americans.

CUOMO: Right. NAVARRO: But you know, this doesn't -- I think what else it tells you

is that we don't take everything that's in this report as, you know, god's truth.

CUOMO: Right, but here's the problem is that if any of it is true, this idea of what torture is and that this is OK -- we had this lawyer on this morning, Alisyn was interviewing him, and she kept saying here is your definition of torture, someone under color of authority, government, whatever, and it's serious physical injury, serious mental injury. He said, yes, I don't think it rises to the level of it. It rings so intellectually dishonest that how are these found to be legal and OK when they obviously meet any definition of what is torture?

SOCARIDES: Well, I think that's the whole point, right, that the central facts of this report are not in dispute. There may be some small arguments on the motion, but this was a very dark period in American history. I mean, it was a dark period first and foremost because we were attacked. And I think we need to have sympathy and compassion for the people who had to make these decisions.

CUOMO: But should you leave that to the politicians? I don't know about that. Politicians at the time, because now you're coming forward and saying we didn't know anything. We didn't know anything. This was all deceptive and secret. Why would the CIA conduct vicious torture and things like that kind of like at their own whimsy?

SOCARIDES: Well, I think the report is clear that they were confused, that it was a difficult moment in American history. We had just been attacked and they didn't know quite what to do. They weren't prepared.

CUOMO: You don't think someone authorized it?

SOCARIDES: Well, I think that, yes, the people in charge authorized it, sure. I think that's clear. I think that's clear in the report. I do want to address the other point that Ana raises. I think that it is very dangerous to say that the issuance of the report puts Americans at risk. Americans are at risk on account of torture because of the actual incidents of tortures. Our enemies knew what we were doing. Our allies knew what we were doing. The only people left in the dark before this report came out were the American public.

CUOMO: They say they want to be in the dark. They're killing me on Twitter saying why are you talking about this? We want to be safe in our beds. There is that famous expression Barbara Starr reminded me of, we sleep safely in our beds because there are men who are ready to do violence to those who would harm us.

SOCARIDES: We all want to be safe, but we want to be safe and have it consistent with our values, American values. And Americans don't torture. It is against American law, it is against international law, it's against everything we stand for. Ask John McCain.

CUOMO: They said they had legal approval. That's our last point. Ana, so what do we do now? If you're going to have it accepted that this wasn't legal, it shouldn't have been done, it was wrong, that's going to take away, it's going to vitiate, as they say in law, color of authority, and now you're exposed to prosecution. Is that supposed to be the next step? Should we follow through?

NAVARRO: I think prosecuting anybody over this would be really a mistake. Number one, we don't know as we pointed out before what is true and what is not. There is a great difference of opinion.

CUOMO: That's why you have a trial.

NAVARRO: Yes, but you know, for what purpose? I think that there is already -- I think there's already a sense of purpose in the American people and the American government and elected officials that this should not have happened and that this should not ever happen again.

When John McCain makes that argument to me, it has enormous power. It was a very powerful speech he gave yesterday because he's lived it, and this is something that John McCain does not talk about easily, his experiences in Vietnam. I know him very well. So when he digs that far in personally, it really is moving and powerful. Now, that it happened, we know it happened.

CUOMO: Right.

NAVARRO: That it shouldn't have happened, we know it shouldn't have happened. It should never again happen. Do we need to release it. Do we need to litigate it on TV? Do we need to litigate in a court of law? I don't see the purpose. I think it would be much more costly than what we would get out of it.

CUOMO: We're always trying to be better here, we're always trying to air what's going on, that's the American way. But the question is what impact will it have? We're going to have to see now. Ana Navarro, Richard Socarides, thank you very much for both sides of this. Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Great conversation, Chris, thanks so much. Let's look at your headlines right now 12 minutes past the hour. New this morning, we have just learned this -- the Ebola fighters are "Time's" person of the year. Among those featured on the cover you'll likely recognize in there the current Ebola survivor Dr. Kent Brantly. The caregivers were selected over other influential newsmakers including the Ferguson protesters and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

An apology from MIT economics professor Jonathan Gruber for what he calls his glib and insulting comments about Obamacare and the intelligence of American voters. Gruber, who was influential in shaping the Affordable Care Act, was grilled at a House oversight committee hearing on Tuesday. He came under fire last month when video surfaced of him suggesting that Democrats purposefully misled Americans to get that law passed.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is set to present a revamped personal conduct policy for the league at a meeting of team owners today. Goodell's been widely criticized for the NFL's handling of the Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson cases. The NFL Players Association says it has no input in the new policy and blasted Goodell for making unilateral changes to the personal conduct rules without the union's participation.

We've got to show you this. The owner of this home in Escondido, California, says this morning started out with a bang. Imagine the fright you would have had. His wife apparently thought it was an earthquake, but no, it was a BMW SUV crashing through the roof of their home and then landing on the roof of their pathfinder. Police arrived shortly after. No word on the condition of the SUV driver. Local media reports say the driver is missing.

CAMEROTA: Mysterious. All right we'll stay on that. Thanks so much.

Protesters in the streets demanding justice for Michael Brown and Eric Garner. The president says he wants to see more progress. What does that mean? Former Obama aide Reggie Love is going to join us with insight into the president's thinking.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Folks who say there's not a lot of improvement, I don't think we're living in the '50s and remember what it was like to be black or Hispanic and interacting with the police then. They don't -- they don't even remember what it was like 20 years ago. There has been improvement. The question is, what more do we need to do?

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CAMEROTA: That was President Obama speaking to Univision about race relations in America, in wake of the Eric Garner and Michael Brown grand jury decisions. Protesters have been taking to the streets for days. And the president has called those demonstrations necessary, but what else will he do?

Reggie Love is a former special assistant and personal aide to President Obama, and the author of upcoming book, "Power Forward: My Presidential Education."

Reggie, great to see but

REGGIE LOVE, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: Alisyn, good morning. How are you doing? Thanks for having me on.

CAMEROTA: I'm doing well. Thanks for being here.

You were President Obama's body man. What does that mean?

LOVE: It's a term that really comes about during the campaign in which you're the person who is responsible for trying to make sure the trains run on time, make sure that the candidate or the president is eating three meals a day, and making sure that he doesn't have to worry about all those small things that are important to making the day run. CAMEROTA: That's interesting. I mean, given that pretty intimate

role that you had with the president, give us a window into his thinking currently in the aftermath of the Eric Garner and Michael Brown decisions.

Where do you think the president is on race relations?

LOVE: You know, that's a great question. I think this country, it's a great country, and if you saw his last interview on BET, I think he made some really great points about how far the country has gone in the last 50 years. I can't speak exactly for the president, but I know, you know, the university that I went to, Duke, they just celebrated their 50th anniversary, having their first African-American class on campus.

You know, you have all sorts of really impressive things that are happening showing race relations are improving, but to his larger message I think it's -- there's still a lot more work to be done, and a lot more improvements to be had.

CAMEROTA: We do have a clip of the president on BET, as you were just mentioning. This is him talking about his commitment to resolving some of these issues.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I'm going to stay on this. Not only am I going to stay on it, by virtue of this staying in the news because of some of these protests, hopefully the entire society says let's finally try to make some real progress on this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Now, when he says let's make some real progress on this, in that answer he was referring to police officers being more accountable and being better trained. Do you think that that's the solution to what we're seeing in all of the demonstrations? Is it just about helping to better train law enforcement?

LOVE: I think the training is a huge portion of it. People -- our law enforcement do a great job protecting the American people in so many different scenarios all across the country, but I do think that from the incidents that you've seen, there needs to be a better, there needs to be a better practice of being able to contain people without using lethal force.

I think part of the other problem is that, you know, I think when people think that the only way for them to feel safe as a law enforcement officer is by using heavy amounts of force with unarmed citizens I think it's problematic and part of that has to do with, you know, experiences, what they see on the news, what they see on television.

You know, it's hard as an African-American male myself, who is 6'5", who's 230 pounds, you know, it's tough for someone to look at me and not to feel like they have a certain amount of fear or in some cases maybe even hate, if they were approaching someone my size and stature, and they have no background, no knowledge of who I am, when they're having that first interaction.

So, I think a lot of it is what is in the hearts and minds of our law enforcement and of the American people, being able to give people the benefit of the doubt, and not needing to use lethal amounts of force when having those initial interactions.

CAMEROTA: Reggie, did you just say you're 6'5"?

LOVE: Six-four and three quarters.

CAMEROTA: Wow! No wonder you're the president's body man. That's -- that's impressive.

The president in that interview sort of revealed something also about himself, and he said that he remembers being a teenager, and he remembers being 17 and 18 and his experiences. Did he ever talk to you about that?

LOVE: Yes. We would kid a little bit because I would say to him, I said, look, I grew up in the South, and I've had a lot of interactions with people, and they say, you know, you're a black man. I said look, you grew up in Hawaii and your mom's white. He was like, yes, but when people see me, they see a black man, they don't see anything else -- which I think is -- which is a very fair point.

And, you know, his experiences are probably pretty similar to what other people who were African-American, who were growing up in that same time period.

CAMEROTA: Well, Reggie Love, it's great to get your insight. The book again is "Power Forward: My Presidential Education", best of luck with it. Thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

LOVE: Alisyn, thank you for having me. Have a great day.

CAMEROTA: You, too.

So, let us know what you think about President Obama's handling of this issue. You can go to Facebook.com/NewDay. You can find us all individually on Twitter as well.

Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. It has mutated. There is no vaccine and we're not sure you can completely avoid it.

It's much scarier than if I said we have news about the flu, right? Well, things are different this year. So, we're bringing in Dr. Sanjay Gupta because he has new information for you if you want it, straight ahead.

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PEREIRA: All right. Here we go with the five things to know for your NEW DAY.

At number one: new questions being raised this morning about the CIA's torture tactics after 9/11, lies the agency reportedly told about them and why the practice continued when it wasn't working.

Lawmakers avoiding a government shutdown agreeing to a $1.1 trillion spending bill that will keep most of the federal government operational through September of next year.

Malala Yousafzai awarded the Nobel Peace Prize this morning for advocating for the right to an education for young girls. She shares the prize with Kailash Satyarthi who campaigns against child labor.

Powerful nor'easter slamming millions from New York to New England, with torrential rain and snow expected. The storm is expected to linger, in fact, for a couple more days. Central New York state could see up to 10 inches of snow tomorrow.

NASA's Orion spacecraft back on solid ground. The USS Anchorage delivered the 11-foot tall capsule to Naval base San Diego Monday night. The next Orion launch also unmanned four years away.

We do update those five things to know. So, be sure to visit NewdayCNN.com for the latest.

Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Mick.

We've got the fever here in New York City, royal fever. The duke and duchess of Cambridge, William and Kate, wrapping up their whirlwind Big Apple trip with this glamorous fundraiser at the Met for their alma mater, the University of St. Andrews.

Kate looked radiant Tuesday night, five months pregnant, but still went with a fetching hemline and tasteful pleats in a gown we have seen before and that's OK.

But their day started with a somber visit to the 9/11 Memorial and they were very thoughtful there and left a note.

Let's bring Max Foster. He's been with them every step of the way.

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I love your fashion tips on this one. It's fantastic.

CAMEROTA: I know. Fashion police.