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Obama Restores U.S.-Cuba Relations; Interview with Rep. Jim McGovern; U.S. Believes North Korea to be Behind Sony Hack

Aired December 18, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALAN GROSS, FREED BY CUBA: It was crucial to my survival, knowing that I was not forgotten.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: What will happen when things are relaxed on the Cuban government?

(CHANTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cuba's best days have not yet been seen.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Fifty years have shown isolation has not worked.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: It is disgraceful for a president who claims to treasure human rights and human freedom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sony should fight fire with fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All major movie chains are giving into fears.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, certainly the studio has bowed to the enemy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot think of another moment like this in modern movie history.

CHANCE: His approval ratings are still sky high, 85 percent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Russia's budget is squeezed and hurting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ruble losing almost half of its value to the U.S. dollar.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: Good morning, and welcome back to NEW DAY. I'm Chris Cuomo. We are in Little Havana, Miami, Florida. This is the home to thousands of Cuban exiles and immigrants, literally generations of people who had to flee their homeland; and now this is home. And there's powerful and mixed reaction to what President Obama just did.

It's certainly history, the announcement that the U.S. and Cuba will be normalizing ties and restoring diplomatic relations. The question is what will that mean for the Cuban people. And for this regime, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris, we'll get back to you in one second. There are a couple of other stories that we're following this morning. I'm Alisyn Camerota with Michaela Pereira here in New York City. We're tracking some other big headlines.

U.S. officials seem certain now that the North Koreans are behind that crippling cyberattack on Sony as the embattled movie studio pulls the release of the new film, "The Interview."

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Also we're watching Russia president, Vladimir Putin, as he addresses his nation amid a growing economic crisis.

We'll get to all of that. But first, back to Chris in Miami.

CUOMO: All right. So we know that it's been since 1961, OK, that things broke off between Cuba and the United States. And it's all been about isolation, trying to squeeze out that regime. And President Obama said yesterday it has not worked. He wants to try a different way. He wants to set up an embassy in Havana. President Obama even considering a visit to the island nation before leaving office.

It has brought a lot of mixed opinion here. People feeling that he's conceding to an oppressive regime. The good news without any dispute is that American Alan Gross was able to come home after five years. He was a humanitarian release by the Cuban government.

You can see here, his emotional ride home. He's on a U.S. government play there -- plane there he was with his wife. He was with some congressmen, and he was watching CNN. He heard the news of his own freedom on our show yesterday.

But not everybody on Capitol Hill wanted to be on that plane. They're not on board with this new approach to Cuba. Some top Republicans are vowing to overturn the president's actions. They're saying they will not fund an embassy there. They will not fund any diplomats there when they get back together, especially in January.

So let's get our coverage of this extraordinary, certainly historic announcement. Let's begin at the White House where it happened with Michelle Kosinski -- Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Chris. We're hearing the threats now from some in Congress not to fund a new U.S. embassy in Cuba, not to confirm a new ambassador there. It's not really clear how much success this would have. But it sure sounds like the start of another political firestorm.

A lot of this criticism coming from Hispanic lawmakers who felt left out of the discussion, some of whom may be running for president next round. But it's not all coming from Republicans. One senator said we can't expect Cuba to change just because the U.S. is making this effort. Another charged that we keep alienating our allies and coddling our

enemies. And one called it be absurd and disgraceful for a president who claims to treasure human rights and human freedoms.

The White House, though, emphatically says we can't keep doing the same thing for five decades, have it not work, but then expect a different result. And they call this plan a path that is more efficient toward those same goals and whether it will benefit both Americans and Cubans -- Chris.

CUOMO: Hi, Michelle, thank you very much. Look, that's the big question: who will this benefit? How real will the change be? For the people who matter most, which are the oppressed people in Cuba.

So let's go there right now. We have Patrick Oppmann. He is in Havana.

And Patrick, it was very impressive. You had the leader of Cuba. You had the leader of the United States, both giving the same message at the same time about restoring negotiation. The reaction here, which is going on right now. There was a lot of bitterness, but where you were, there was joy, true?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There was joy, there was disbelief. And there was wonderment about what it all means for the Cuban in the street, who you know, we have to point out has to subsist, most of them, on less than $20 a month. A very tough life, Chris, as you can imagine.

But you know, when Cubans did see Raul Castro appear on their television screens and talk about the United States in a way that Fidel Castro, his brother, never did. He talked about his admiration, respect for President Obama; talked about the necessity of a path forward. Very important for Cuba, since the closest ally, Venezuela, their economy is tanking as oil prices drop. So you know, a lot of people said this is a necessary pivot for the Cuban economy.

It also raised a lot of questions about what is Fidel Castro's opinion of this? We haven't heard from him, in fact, in months. We haven't seen any new pictures of him. Will he weigh in, as he sometimes does, on this historic agreement? You know, our understanding is that he played no part in it. But Fidel Castro usually likes to wait a few days and write an editorial, weigh in, almost always very supportive of his brother.

But perhaps one more sign that it's Raul Castro, and not Fidel Castro who these days is running Cuba -- Chris.

CUOMO: Well Patrick, I know you've been digging down on this. What have you found out about Fidel? I mean, obviously, it may be Raul Castro, but it's only the last name that matters. And that's what really engenders the anger, certainly here. And also, what have you learned about Alan Gross and what his plans are?

OPPMANN: Well I'll start with your second question, because over the last few months, I've spent a lot of time with Judy Gross and Scott Gilbert (ph), Alan's attorney. And one thing they told me, on the condition that I wouldn't divulge it until he was released, that unbelievably enough, Alan Gross over these last months has talked to them about his desire, one day, not right away, he wants to spend time with his family and recover his health. But one day we're told he would like, we're told, to return to Cuba. He fell in love with the Cuban people, the Cuban culture, certainly not the Cuban government. But you know, he dreamed of seeing the world outside the prison cell. He spent five years.

So one day Alan Gross has told his family and his attorney that he would like to return to Cuba, see some of the people who became life- long friends, see places in Cuba he was never able to visit. And one Cuban official I talked to said that Alan Gross would be welcome, as long as he came as a friend -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Patrick, thank you very much. We'll be back with you in a little bit.

As you hear behind me right now, this is where people come in Little Havana to debate what's going on in their homeland. You know, this is home now, obviously. But there were so many forced to leave Cuba. And you're hearing it going on right now. People are angry here about what's happened.

Let's bring in somebody who represents the side of change, though, and believes this is a good idea. Congressman Jim McGovern, he's a Democrat from Massachusetts. He has been involved in the ongoing discussions to open relations between the U.S. and Cuba.

So Congressman, as I'm saying behind me right now, there are men and women who would disagree with you very, very heartily that what you've just done has rewarded an oppressive regime. And that the Castros will help no one but themselves. How do you respond?

REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Well, you know, the way I would respond to that is that I think what the president did yesterday was in the best interests of the Cuban people and in the best interests of the American people.

The one thing that we know for certain, Chris, is that for the last 50-plus years, this policy that we have had toward Cuba has been a miserable failure. It's a relic from the Cold War.

You know, I'm glad the president did what he did yesterday. I wish it happened decades ago. And I think for those who are concerned about human rights, I think the more engagement between the United States and Cuba, the more difficult it will be for the Cuban government to be repressive.

There are changes already going on in Cuba, in spite of the U.S. policy. And that's because of the involvement of the Europeans and the Canadians and everybody else around the world. The only people that have this policy of isolating the island is the United States. And that has changed, and I think that's a good thing.

CUOMO: Right. But you have the theoretical and the practical. The theoretical is you have dialogue, you introduce them to democracy, to capitalism, to commerce, and the people will respond.

The problem is that hasn't happened. The U.S. has isolated them, but many other countries have not. There have been a lot of corporate interests that have gone in and out of there. A lot of chances for the regime to loosen its grip, but they've only tightened it. You could argue that they still hold people as political prisoners for no reason. They still give no freedoms to their people.

MCGOVERN: Right, look I'm not here to defend the Cuban government's human rights record. But to say that there have been no changes in Cuba is just wrong.

There is more political space there today than there was in the 1970s and the 1960s. That, again, has nothing to do with us. It has more to do with the fact that the Soviet Union collapsed and other countries, you know, became engaged. There's more free enterprise going on in Cuba out of necessity. Because the economy there is in shambles.

So there are things that are going on. There are positive things that are going on. Yes, we need to focus on the human rights record. But we have no say in that right now, because we have isolated that country. We've had an economic embargo that the cardinal of -- in Cuba has said has hurt the average Cuban citizen. We haven't hurt the government. We've hurt regular people, and that's not the policy of the United States.

Our policy, quite frankly, I think has been petty. And we've been isolated from the rest of the world. I think what the president did yesterday, I think has raised our image, especially in Latin America, and I think it's going to result in more and more change. He did the right thing and I'm -- I praise him for his courage and for his guts. And I know, you know, he's taken some heat. But he did the right thing.

CUOMO: Well, I want to get your take on two different aspects of this dynamic. One was a force for making it happen, the Vatican, and what role the Vatican played and the pope, in your understanding. And then, on the opposite side, what are you going to do with your brothers and sisters in D.C. when the ruling majority that's coming in says they won't fund an embassy there, they won't fund a diplomatic mission there? So comment on those two aspects, please.

MCGOVERN: Well, first of all, I praise the Vatican. I praise Pope Francis for his involvement in trying to encourage both countries to -- to move toward the announcement that was made yesterday.

I think -- and the Vatican, by the way, has long been pushing for better relations between our two countries. As you remember, Pope John Paul II delivered a mass in Cuba which I happened to have the privilege to be at.

In terms of my colleagues who are saying they're not going to fund an embassy and going to try to disrupt all this, how silly. We're the greatest country in the world, and if for some reason, they're afraid to engage a country like Cuba? The bottom line is, we need to go forward. We need to behave like a

grown-up and try to influence Cuba in a positive way. Having an embassy, having the ability to talk directly to the Cuban government, why would that be a bad thing? I mean, all these years we've had no access to the Cuban government. What the president is saying, we ought to be at the table and talk to them directly. I think that can only have positive implications.

And look, you know, Marco Rubio, who's running for president and others are going to do what they're going to do. But quite frankly, I think they look petty. And I think what they're doing is counterproductive and not in the best interests of the Cuban people on the island. The Cuban people, the average Cuban citizen on the island is welcoming what happened yesterday.

CUOMO: Well, but you also had -- look, I mean, this is a complex issue. You have a lot of people on the ground there who are fighting for reform and change -- and it's literally a life-and-death fight for them -- who feel this was the wrong move. But there's a lot who feel that there is a hope to it, as well. The problem is you're going to have to see how it plays out.

Congressman, I appreciate you joining us. This is a big fight going forward. It's certainly not done just because the president said it should be so. So that fight we'll be watching very carefully. Thank you for joining us on NEW DAY.

MCGOVERN: I appreciate -- I appreciate it, thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Alisyn, back to you in New York. Maybe I'll bring you back a Cuban coffee if I can get it to travel. We'll see.

CAMEROTA: I want some garlic chicken from Versailles behind you. I love the restaurant where you are. It's so -- it's so great. Michaela and I...

CUOMO: It's breakfast time now. So we're having those guava pastillitos. This is a little Cuban coffee action right here. I'm off the coffee, but I'm not off Cuban coffee.

CAMEROTA: You are rubbing it in, my friend.

CUOMO: We just said we love the Cuban coffee.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. Thanks so much.

Let's talk about the timing of all this, because it may seem like it happened suddenly. But there were signs over the last year and a half of improving relations with Cuba and that the release of Alan Gross could be in the works.

Most of the behind-the-scenes work was facilitated by the Canadians and the pope. And this culminated with the first presidential conversation between the U.S. and Cuba since the Eisenhower administration.

Chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto has more for us from Washington. Give us back story, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, this is a remarkable piece of diplomacy conducted in secret over more than year and a half in multiple countries, principally as you say, Canada and in the Vatican. And it had everything, including a Cold War spy swap, until it was revealed to the world yesterday, and Alan Gross finally came home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALAN GROSS, POLITICAL PRISONER RELEASED BY CUBA: So far it's the best Hanukah that I'll be celebrating for a long time.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Alan Gross's emotional return to the U.S. became a reality only after more than 18 months of secret contacts and shuttle diplomacy.

GROSS: To President Obama and the NSC staff, thank you.

SCIUTTO: The president first authorized high-level contacts in the spring of last year. First meeting between U.S. And Cuban officials followed in June in Canada, which would host the majority of meetings between the two sides to follow. Also playing a key role, the Vatican.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to thank his holiness, Pope Francis.

SCIUTTO: Pope Francis, the first head of the Catholic Church from Latin America -- pressed Obama in a face-to-face meeting in March to renew talks with Cuba. And raised the issue again in a letter this fall.

And it was at the Vatican in October this year where details of Gross's release and the new U.S. trade policy with Cuba were hashed out between the U.S. and Cuban delegations.

Culmination coming on Tuesday, when President Obama spoke to Cuban president, Raul Castro, in a call that lasted about an hour. The first communication at the presidential level since the Cuban revolution more than 50 years ago.

On Wednesday, a year and a half after negotiations first began, Gross was able to embrace his wife, Judy, who flew to Havana to take him home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How was the trip back?

SCIUTTO: Judy Gross was joined by a team of congressmen.

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: On the airplane back as we crossed into U.S. air space, you saw him give a big hurrah.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: We were flying there and watching some of the news on the airplane and I said, "You know, Alan, you're free." And he got up and he threw his arms around me and hugged me. SCIUTTO: And a phone call from the president to congratulate him on

his freedom.

OBAMA: I spoke to him on his flight. He said he was willing to interrupt his corned beef sandwich to talk to me. Needless to say, he was thrilled.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: U.S. officials say this will now move relatively quickly. They want to open and reopen, I should say, the embassy in Cuba as quickly as possible. And some trade is going to be able to start right away, things dealing with home construction, particularly telecom equipment that will get the Internet up and running in Cuba.

And I'll tell you, Alisyn and Michaela, I went to Cuba in 2011 in one of the early exchange trips under the Obama administration. And under that -- those early relaxation of the embargo, some food trade was already allowed. I went to an exposition there. You had all of these American food companies in there ready to sell their wares. That was three, more, almost four years ago. You can imagine the influx of American companies as these trade restrictions are relaxed even more.

CAMEROTA: Jim, it's so fascinating to hear how the whole deal came together. Thanks so much.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right. There's other news. Let's talk about headlines.

PEREIRA: Let's give you a look. It's 15 minutes past the hour now.

Breaking overnight, one person was killed and many others were injured. A car slammed into several pedestrians outside a California church. The group of people was exiting a church in Redondo Beach where a Christmas performance had just ended. Officials say the suspect ran a red light, drove through that crowd of people before hitting another driver head-on. The driver was arrested on suspicion of felony DUI and vehicular manslaughter.

The manhunt intensifies for the leaders responsible for that horrifying school attack in Pakistan. Pakistani military intelligence officials traveling to Afghanistan Wednesday, looking for Afghan-based elements of the Pakistani Taliban that they believe carried out that heinous attack.

Pakistani officials also reaching out to the Afghan government for assistance in tracking down those militants. At least 148 people were killed in the siege, among them, 132 children.

Also here at home, a manhunt in Texas for a gunman who shot a television meteorologist. Police say Patrick Crawford, a meteorologist for KCEN, in Waco, was in his car, in his station's parking lot when the suspect approached them. We're told the two got into some sort of an argument, and Crawford was shot multiple times. He was taken to the hospital, where he underwent emergency surgery. He is said to be in stable condition this morning.

Well, it's almost time to say good night to the "Colbert Report," Stephen Colbert taping his final show tonight after ten seasons. The faux conservative comedian had some pretty memorable moments on the air through the years, including when he announced his bid for the White House, even becoming the focus of a Senate campaign. Colbert begins his new gig as the host of "Late Night" on CBS in September. Letterman's last show coming up in the spring.

CAMEROTA: We'll miss him. I won't miss being made fun of by him. But we'll miss him. That's great.

All right. Well, you can strike the movie called "The Interview" off your holiday movie list. Sony canceling the Christmas release after hackers threatened to attack theaters. What could be the wider ramifications of all of this? We will ask our legal panel -- Chris.

CUOMO: And look, a big issue between the U.S. and Cuba that still needs to be addressed, is a trade embargo. What the president has just done cannot remove that legislation. It existed as a policy since the '60s, but it was made a law in the '90s, and is there any chance of that happening? We'll take you through what stands in the way.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: We have new information coming into CNN as officials prepare to announce that North Korea is behind the Sony attack that brought the company to its knees. We're learning the U.S. is now worried about a new cycle of provocation, including the possibility of a nuclear or missile test by North Korea.

All of this coming as Sony decided to pull the plug on the release of the new movie called "The Interview" after hackers threatened movie theaters that were planning to screen it.

For more on all of these developments, let's bring back chief national correspondent, Jim Sciutto from Washington; CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin; and CNN political commentator and former presidential candidate Newt Gingrich. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

Jim, I want to start with you. Tell us your new reporting.

SCIUTTO: Well, it's incredible. It was only a few weeks ago, we had the release of all the American detainees in North Korea. You'll remember that moment, reporting it here on NEW DAY. And thoughts then as what did this mean, new outreach from North Korea. Perhaps, you know, a calmer period in U.S./North Korean relations.

Now you have this very aggressive, unprecedented, in fact, North Korean hacking attack on a major U.S. company. The U.S. about to identify North Korea today as behind that attack and announce measures it's going to take in response. So the concern is that that restarts this cycle of provocation between the U.S. and North Korea. It is so familiar. And the U.S. officials have been on pin and

needles about a missile test and a possibility of a nuclear test. They thought they had bought some time, with the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un invited to Moscow by Russia in May of next year, giving North Korea that kind of international attention it likes, makes it feel like it's a world power, it gets respect, et cetera.

Now you're back in this tit-for-tat kind of situation here, and concerns are very high, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Newt, what should the U.S. response be?

NEWT GINGRICH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think we have to take steps that cost the North Koreans a substantial amount in either money or prestige or something else.

You can't allow the precedent of a foreign hacking operation to blackmail an American company, to cripple it, to cost it enormous amounts of loss of prestige and of loss of money. If that stands as a precedent, then next year do the Iranians get to do it? The following year, Putin and the Russians get to do it?

This is the first time we've seen this kind of hacking for the purpose of intimidating and forcing change. And I think we have to develop a policy response that's very strong and that dissuades anyone else from thinking this is doable.

CAMEROTA: Newt, let me read the tweet that you sent out when Sony announced yesterday that it was pulling the plug on this movie. You said, "No one should kid themselves. With the Sony collapse, America has lost its first cyberwar. This is a very, very dangerous precedent."

That's dramatic.

GINGRICH: Well, it's true. And I think people need to understand that.

Here you had a foreign dictatorship make the decision to intervene on American soil, to punish an American company, to raise threats of physical violence. Remember what finally stopped the movie was movie theaters were afraid that there were going to be bombs or other threats. And the threats were being made.

Now are we prepared to relax and allow foreign dictatorships to intimidate us in our own country and force us to change behavior? Unless we have a very strong response, we have lost this war. And that should be a serious concern for the Congress and the president and require us to really rethink what is our policy on these kinds -- this is not a cyber-stealing of something. This is a deliberate coercive effort to change behavior by the threat both of cyber- involvement and the threat of physical violence in theaters.

CAMEROTA: Jim, hold your thought for one second, because I want to bring in Jeffrey. Do you see this as a cyber-war that we just lost? JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's a huge deal. I think not as

many people took it as seriously as they should have in the beginning, because it was a Seth Rogen movie. Everybody thought it was kind of a joke. Think about the implications of this.

Here you have a foreign dictator saying, "We don't like a movie," and the movie disappears. What happens when they don't like a newspaper article? What happens when they don't like a book that's being published? What happens if they don't like what's on cable news? This is a real disaster.

And you know, I don't know that the movie theaters made the wrong decision, but there was a cost to their cowardice. There was a cost. Because now the message has been sent that the United States can be intimidated by these sorts of threats. And that only encourages more of them.

CAMEROTA: Jim, what did you want to add?

SCIUTTO: I would say that, you know, there's a political diplomatic cost, and there's an immediate business cost. Here you have North Korea that has cost a major American movie studio tens of millions of dollars.

You know, we talk about cyberattacks, and, you know, they come from China every day, multiple times a day. And oftentimes, the business cost of these attacks are sort of theoretical, down the line, hard to quantify. Here you have it very directly.

One cyberattack from North Korea shuts down a move that costs, you know, a few tens of millions of dollars and sets a precedent that North Korea can exact a financial cost, a dollar cost very directly on the U.S. economy, in addition to striking fear in Americans. Talking about going to a movie on Christmas day with your kids. You know, the fact that they could do both those things? Pretty remarkable.

TOOBIN: Well, I just wanted to make the point also. Let's also talk about the cowardice of the American entertainment companies who are not standing by Sony. Where is Disney? Where is Warner Brothers, also owned by the same company that owns CNN?

CAMEROTA: You think they should have spoken out?

TOOBIN: They should have -- when the -- there was a death threat against Salman Rushdie for "The Satanic Verses," all the publishers came together and said, "We are going to publish his book, because we care about this." The cowardice of these American media companies is appalling.

CAMEROTA: I just want to end on something that Jim just raised. Do all roads lead back to China here? Is China involved?

GINGRICH: No. They may be involved, but it's irrelevant. This is a North Korean effort done by the North Koreans. They have a very robust cyber program. And it's important to remember: individual companies cannot stand up

against a foreign dictatorship. I agree that they might have shown more courage. But the truth is, for the last couple of weeks, this has been coming. The U.S. government has done nothing to protect them. It has done nothing to communicate to North Korea.

And it's pretty shameful that it took the collapse yesterday of the will of American theaters to run the risk, frankly, of their people being killed, which is what was happening. And the U.S. government finally today may be about to name North Korea. This is a pathetic failure by the U.S. government and requires a much more robust policy.

This is a war. This is an act of war, and we should be clear about what's involved here.

CAMEROTA: Newt Gingrich, Jim Sciutto, Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much for all of your perspective. Let's go back to Michaela.

PEREIRA: All right, thanks so much, Alisyn.

Ahead, U.S. businesses eager to move in, now that Cuba and the U.S. are talking again, but when will travel and trade resume to Cuba? Good questions for commerce secretary Penny Pritzker. We'll ask her ahead.

Also, Russia President Vladimir Putin trying to put his people at ease over the struggling economy during a lively and lengthy press conference that has just ended, almost three and a bit hours along. Made some surprising comments about the future of his presidency. We'll take a look, ahead.

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