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Interview with Commerce Secretary Penny Pritzker; Vladimir Putin Speaks on Russian Economy; The Role of the Vatican in the U.S.- Cuba Thaw

Aired December 18, 2014 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So here's what we know. It has been 55 years of a strict trade and travel embargo. But now, there's some hope for access to Cuban markets and American companies are chomping at the bit to expand into the Caribbean country.

Now, in light of the new diplomatic relationship between the U.S. and Cuba, we've heard from Marriott International, one of the largest hotel chains, Carnival Cruise Lines. They're saying they love the idea of opening hotels in Cuba, expanding the kind of relationship, the corporate relationship. And let's be honest, they just see a lot of opportunities to make money there.

So what could this mean and for whom? Because remember the goal of this, according to President Obama, was to help the people who need it most -- those who are oppressed by a repressive regime in Cuba. So what's going to happen?

Let's bring in U.S. Secretary of Commerce, Penny Pritzker. Secretary, thank you very much for joining us. The situation certainly has a potential plus-minus on it. So you tell me: make the case for why this will be good for the people who matter most and not just for American corporate pockets.

PENNY PRITZKER, U.S. SECRETRY OF COMMERCE: You know, first of all, let's think about this. This is the most profound policy change as it relates to Cuba in my lifetime. And what the president is saying is openness and engagement is a better approach than isolation. And we know that commercial engagement has the opportunity to change lives.

If you think about what's -- the president's actions will allow in terms of travel. There will be 12 different groups that will have the opportunity to travel: families, religious groups, education groups, academics, journalists. So this is about more openness. Also, telecommunications. I don't know if you're aware, but only 5 percent of the Cuban people have access to the Internet. And only two million of the 11.4 million Cuban people have a cell phone.

So there's going to be greater opportunity through telecommunications, the opening of the telecommunication sector, which is being encouraged by the Cuban government for greater connectivity. Really, really important. And for the agriculture sector, there's going to be an opportunity for greater sales.

CUOMO: The question is -- who gets the opportunity, right, Secretary? Because there's no question it's an historic move by the president. But is it a good historic move or a bad historic move? That's where you get all the tension, especially where we are right now. Because the feeling is you are rewarding the same regime that kicked out a generation of people and stole everything that was theirs.

So the question is how do you ensure that these moves wind up creating opportunity, telecommunications, ability to communicate with the outside world, and to have more freedoms for the right people?

PRITZKER: You know, what we have to remember is, first of all, yes, this is a good decision. And it's -- what the president is allowing here is to empower the Cuban people, to give them more opportunity, for connectivity, more opportunity to be entrepreneurs. And his view is -- and the administration's view and I wholly endorse this -- is that engagement is what matters and what can be helpful.

I talked to many business leaders yesterday who are very enthusiastic about this. But they recognize, right now, we still have an embargo. And they're saying what can we do on the humanitarian side to be supportive and to help the Cuban people?

CUOMO: So, Secretary, one of the things that you'll be looking at very carefully is how you secure capital there, right? And I know it sounds like it's in the weeds, but it isn't. It's easy for Carnival Cruise Lines; they go there, they get a port of entry, they're in, they're out. It's OK.

But if people want to do business with Cuba, what guarantee do you have that their money is safe there? You know, that there's an infrastructure that respects commerce, that respects property rights? Because there isn't one right now.

PRITZKER: Well, I think you have to recognize this is the beginning of a process. We're not -- we're not -- we're not able, under our current laws, to just open business with Cuba. What we're able to do is in specific sectors have greater engagement. And what the president is encouraging more openness and his feeling is, and I totally agree with this, which is, by giving greater telecommunications opportunities to the individuals in Cuba, that will begin to evolve change. And what's exciting about that is the Cuban government is supportive of that.

And so this is a process; this is not just opening up. Banking laws and things like that, those will have to change over time. But that's not where we're at in the process. We're still subject to an embargo.

CUOMO: Absolutely understood. And, look, the good headline from the day is you have Alan Gross is certainly home, some political prisoners have been freed, and there is hope. We'll have to see how it manifests as change, but hope is a good place to start. Agreed on that.

Let's go from a situation where some are arguing you've done too much to one where you could argue you haven't done enough in the U.S. government. And that's with the Sony situation. Where's the U.S. government on this? You have a huge corporate interest that's being bullied by hackers and a complete capitulation to demands that compromises the First Amendment. Where were you guys in defending this company, finding out what's happening, and keeping them safe for their own enterprise?

PRITZKER: You know, obviously the national security team has been engaged in this. Let's just think about, though. what's happened. We've had a cyber security breach. This is an area where the Commerce Department has been involved historically by helping to develop the cyber security framework. Let's remember what's happened here. Someone has broken the law and stolen property from Sony. What I think the government has been doing is working with Sony to ensure people's safety and make sure there isn't some sort of threat to individuals.

On the flip side, where the government has been active is to engage with companies, writ large, in terms of developing the types of cyber security protections that are necessary to protect their intellectual property, to protect their assets. And so the government has been active in two very different ways and very important ways.

CUOMO: Well, Secretary, I'm just pointing it out because it seems like there's certainly more that needs to be done when you have a major Hollywood organization say it's not going to release a movie because of a fear of reprisal. It's something that's very new to the American people and they're expecting government to step up.

But Secretary Pritzker, thank you very much for explaining two situations to us this morning.

PRITZKER: Thank you.

CUOMO: Mick, there's a lot of news this morning. Let's get back to you in New York.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Certainly there is. Thanks so much, Chris. Great coverage there.

Let's look at those headlines. The search is on right now for the leaders responsible for the Pakistani school massacre. Pakistani military and intelligence officials have traveled to Afghanistan, Wednesday, looking for Afghan-based elements of the Pakistani Taliban who they believe carried out that deadly attack. At least 148 people were killed in the siege, among them 132 children.

Back here at home, hundreds of protesters back on the streets of New York in response to grand jury decisions in the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner. Dozens of protesters also staging a week-long die-in at the Staten Island mall. All of this as New York officials say they're trying to negotiate a settlement with Eric Garner's family. They filed a $75 million civil rights claim over his death.

Federal officials have filed murder charges in connection with that deadly meningitis outbreak back in 2012. The Justice Department says 14 people have been arrested, including two people who have been charged with 25 acts of second-degree murder. 64 people died in the outbreak, which was linked to steroid injections from a Massachusetts pharmacy. Officials say the steroids weren't sterilized and expired ingredients were used.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Meanwhile, Russian President Vladimir Putin tries to ease fears about his economy's freefall. We will talk to a member of the Russian State Duma about Putin's three- hour press conference and whether Putin can survive.

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CAMEROTA: Moments ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin wrapped up a three-plus hour press conference in which he made a surprising comment, saying his decision whether to run for reelection will depend on the country's economic situation.

Right now, the economy is in a downward spiral, but he assured Russians it will bounce back.

Let's bring in Ilya Ponomarev. He's a Russian opposition politician who's a member of the State Duma. That's Russia's legislative body.

Mr. Ponomarev, nice to see you again.

ILYA PONOMAREV, MEMBER OF RUSSIAN STATE DUMA: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Just to give viewers a context of who you are, you have never been in lockstep with Putin nor have you been in lockstep with the Duma, the legislative body on which you sit. In fact, you were the only State Duma member in March to vote against the annexation of Crimea. Since that time, your bank accounts have been frozen and you have been virtually exiled. So what is it like to watch what's happening in Russia and the economic crisis now for you?

PONOMAREV: I really feel sorry for my country and especially there are a lot of people whom I am working with and who we're working with during reset policies that were implemented by Russia and the United States and the reorganization of the economy that was introduced by Medvedev. All of those people right now sits here in Silicon Valley or in Boston or New York. They virtually, all of them, left Russia and that's -- really feels me sorry.

CAMEROTA: Like we said, President Putin just wrapped up a three-plus hour press conference. He made some headlines, particularly talking about the economy. He says that Russian growth is inevitable so people don't need to worry so much. He finished on a very cheery note. He said we will get through this period. It's not easy, of course, but we'll strengthen our position in the world economy. The most important thing is to ensure social prosperity of people despite the cuts in the budget and we can do that. We absolutely can.

What do you think of his optimism?

PONOMAREV: I totally share his optimism. For sure, we will do all of that. But I am afraid we will be doing this without him. CAMEROTA: What do you mean?

PONOMAREV: I mean that, with the current policy that has been implemented, the economy would not bounce back under his leadership. And people were very much hoping that he would give at least some answers how he would overcome the economic crisis of today. Who is responsible for the downfall of the ruble? Does he feel sorry for what was have been done and for the policies that actually led to this economic crisis? Because it's all artificial. It was not supposed to happen just beginning of this year.

And he felt like no, I am OK. I'm not at fault. None of my people are at fault. Central bank and the government is doing OK. All my people, you know, are doing the right things. And it would have happened even without Crimea, even without invasion in Ukraine. That's just a general logic of confrontation of the West with Russia.

CAMEROTA: And yet, Putin's public opinion poll numbers continue to be remarkably high. Here is a poll taken by the Associated Press. This was just earlier this month, so already when the economy was slipping, 81 percent of Russians believe in Putin. And that is compared to 2012 when it was just 58 percent. How do you explain his tremendous poll numbers despite this crisis?

PONOMAREV: People do not believe in Putin. People believe in certain policies that are being implemented right now. People believe that we indeed is at war with the west, that America is trying to crush Russia, that America is trying to crush Ukraine and that we are protecting our brother Ukrainians from America's aggression. That's what our TV is telling Russians and that's why they support Putin, who is the commander-in-chief and who is leading the resistance to the Western aggression.

But time will pass and it will be not so long time, and then people will say OK, so maybe we were mistaken, maybe it was the wrong message, maybe the guy who is propagating the message is actually trying to cheat us.

CAMEROTA: So, very quickly, Mr. Ponomarev, yes or no -- do you think Putin survives this?

PONOMAREV: Of course not. It just will take him a year and a half, two years, and then he would be gone.

CAMEROTA: Ilya Ponomarev, nice to see you again. Thank you for sharing your personal thoughts on this.

PONOMAREV: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's go back to Chris in Miami.

CUOMO: What an interesting discussion you just had, Alisyn. Thank you very much for that.

So the situation here, you have a stalemate that had lasted 50 years. Right now the sudden and certainly historic thaw between the U.S. and Cuba. A big player here -- we're all talking about President Obama -- what about Pope Francis? He and the Vatican played a very big part. Much of what just happened in Cuba and the U.S. started in Rome. We'll tell about it.

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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to thank His Holiness Pope Francis, whose moral example shows us the importance of pursing the world as it should be rather than simply settling for the world as it is.

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CUOMO: President Obama's eloquent words, thinking Il Papa, Pope Francis, for the pivotal role he and the Vatican played in brokering this historic new agreement between the U.S. and Cuba. It does turn out that the Pope was a chief advocate for renewing diplomatic ties between Washington and Havana.

Let's get some insight now from Rome. We have CNN Vatican correspondent, Delia Gallagher. Delia, we understand that the Pope wrote a handwritten letter. But it is important to say that the Vatican -- explain to us what the Vatican has been doing, long before Pope Francis, to bring about the day that we have today.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: yes, it's an important point, Chris. Pope Francis rightly deserves credit for his role in this but it wouldn't have been possible without a long and patient history of Vatican diplomacy. The Vatican has never broken ties in more than 70 years with Cuba. And if you remember, back in 1998, it was Pope John Paul II who really made history by being the first Pope to go and talk to Fidel Castro. At that time, Pope Francis was a delegate there in Cuba as a priest, and he subsequently wrote a book about those dialogues. So obviously his interests and his study of the problem began some time ago.

Chris, I do want to mention to you that the Pope, just a few hours ago, was speaking to a small group of ambassadors here at the Vatican. He did reference the events of yesterday and, in fact, pointed to just what we were talking about, about the role of diplomacy. He said, "And today we are all happy because yesterday we saw two nations who were estranged for so many years take a step to bring them together. This was achieved by ambassadors, by diplomacy."

So I think the Pope himself obviously deflecting a little bit of the attention from his letters and from his work, and onto the diplomacy. Chris?

CUOMO: Right. You do have, Delia, what is historic. But you then also have to deal with what is the reality. You know, the Pope's statement about this situation -- we'll just put it up for you here. "The Holy Father wishes to express his warm congratulations for the historic decision taken by the governments of the United States of America and Cuba to establish diplomatic relations with the aim of overcoming, in the interests of the citizens of both countries, the difficulties which have marked their recent history. "

Here's the problem, Delia. Yes, you want freedom, you want peace, you want understanding, but you have a regime in place that is repressive. And it will be interesting -- what is the Vatican's perspective on what the government should be doing? Yes, it's good to be open to Cuba, but what does the Vatican and the Pope say about what the Cuban regime should change for its own people?

GALLGHER: Well, here's the delicate point, Chris, which is the Vatican line has always been, we are not here to decide one political regime over another. What we are here to say is that the dialogue must always be maintained. That's Pope Francis' line, but it's been the Vatican diplomatic line for the entire time they've had diplomatic relations. They believe that it's better to keep the line of communications open. The chances of a regime change, at that point, are obviously better than if you're not talking at all.

So that's where they would stop and say this is what we wanted to achieve, that the line of communications are open. Obviously it's up to individual countries -- they are sovereign nations -- to decide for themselves, and the people to be able to decide their own political story. Chris?

CUOMO: Well, Delia, I'll tell you, it is fitting that that is the perspective of the Vatican and the Pope, obviously fueled so much by faith because there are many who really, really don't trust the proposition that the regime there will change there no matter what it is offered in exchange.

Delia Gallagher, thank you so much for the perspective from Rome. And it's such an interesting dynamic: the United States, Cuba, the Vatican all moving together. The question is what will happen now? We're going to give you more coverage from here and from Cuba and from everywhere that matters on this story. Stay with us.

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