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New Day

U.S. to Name North Korea as Sony Hackers; Obama Ducks Lame Duck Status

Aired December 19, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clearly, I believe this came from North Korea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're considering a range of options about how to respond.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The hackers stole computer credentials from a Sony system administrator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time for us to respond to this in a very strong way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The policy of engagement with the Cuban people will overtime help open things up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once again, President Obama has decided to do something absolutely without precedent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Dow Jones soaring, 421 points.

DEBORAH FEYERICK,CNN CORRESPONDENT: What will be the effect on oil prices on global economies?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The best one-day gain in more than three years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to NEW DAY. It is Friday, December 19th, just before 6:00 in the East, Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota here.

There's a lot of new information about the cyber-terror attack on Sony Pictures. The evidence is in and it points right at North Korea. The U.S. government is expected to publicly blame the reclusive regime as early as today.

But that's going to be the easy part. The big question is, what will the U.S. do about it because so far the silence has been deafening?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, CNN learning that investigators have evidence that hackers stole the credentials of a system administrator, getting access to the studio's computer system, meaning it was not an inside job. The losses for Sony go far beyond canceling the release of that

controversial film. This could be the costliest cyberattack against a company in U.S. history.

We have all of the angles covered for you. Let's begin with senior Washington correspondent Joe Johns at the White House. What do we know, Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

The White House and the U.S. is waiting for investigators at the FBI and the Justice Department to wrap up their investigation as the administration tries to deal from -- with the fallout from Sony's decision to essentially pull that film.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): The Obama administration is ready to point the finger at North Korea for the unprecedented Sony hack, a move that could come as early as this morning.

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We're considering a range of options about how to respond.

JOHNS: Among the possible options, more sanctions. The administration insisting the response will be strong.

JEN PSAKI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: I can assure you the United States government is not blinking. We're not backing down. We're not in a crouching or fear position here.

JOHNS: Sources tell CNN there is evidence the hackers stole computer credentials from a Sony system administrator to get access to the company's computer system.

The White House says it did not pressure Sony to pull "The Interview," the controversial comedy which depicts the assassination of North Korean dictator, Kim Jong-un.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take him out.

SETH ROGEN, ACTOR: For coffee?

JAMES FRANCO, ACTOR: Dinner?

ROGEN: For kimchee?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We believe that that kind of artistic expression is worthy of protection and is not something that should be subjected to intimidation just because you happen to disagree with the views.

JOHNS: U.S. officials are also considering exactly how to characterize the hack, which some are calling an act of terrorism. COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), FORMER AIR FORCE INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: I

see it as cyberterrorism and cyber-extortion. I think what they're doing is basically economic warfare, and they have found a way that is disproportionate to the physical power that North Korea possesses to actually affect economics, a particular company, in this case Sony.

JOHNS: Pressure is also coming from lawmakers, who want to see the White House deliver a forceful response.

REP. ED ROYCE (R-CA), FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: It's time for us to respond to this, in a very strong way and show the rest of the international community that we're not going to allow this to happen without us imposing a cost on a regime that does it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: A presidential news conference scheduled for today, Mr. Obama is sure to get questions about the Sony hack before he leaves the White House for the holidays -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Joe, it's a complicated situation, but we have been waiting to see what the U.S. will do. And now we'll at least get an answer to that part.

The question looms: if Pyongyang is involved in this, and it is confronted, how will it respond? For that let's go to Kyung Lah live on the ground in Seoul, South Korea -- Kyung.

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, we don't know, but that's what makes North Korea extremely unpredictable and extremely dangerous. But if previous hacks of South Korea are any clue, here's what we're anticipating.

Now South Korea has been the victim, a number of companies here have been the victim of attacks from North Korea. Cyber attacks, that is. And what we've heard again and again from the regime: deny, deny, deny.

But underneath that veneer of denials, what cyber-intelligence experts here in South Korea say is happening is North Korea has been building their capabilities for cyber-warfare. They're sending out more of these agents around the world. They are becoming better. They're becoming smarter. We heard one cyber-intelligence expert tell us today that he considers them one of the top five threats globally, as a country, as far as launching hack attacks.

So certainly, we are anticipating that they're going to deny it, regardless of what Washington says, but they're going to be continue to be building their army -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Kyung, well, proof of confidence, check. Proof of intentions, check. What we have to see now is what will be the response from the U.S.? And then what happens next?

Kyung, thank you very much -- Alisyn. CAMEROTA: All right, Chris. Let's get some perspective from Tom

Fuentes. He's a CNN law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director. And Sue Mi Terry. She's a senior White House official and former CIA analyst for the director of intelligence. She's now a senior research scholar at Columbia University's Weatherhead East Asia Institute.

Great to have both of you with us this morning.

Sue, let me start with you. It seems plausible that North Korea is behind this hacking and these threats, but what really is our evidence?

SUE MI TERRY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL: I'm sure there's a preponderance of evidence if the government is coming out, and I think a senior government official said 99 percent show that this is North Korea.

What that means is they have the signals intelligence. That says they have intercepts with regional officials talking about this, saying that they probably did it. They have human intelligence corroborating this. But of course, they can't tell us how they found out. But I'm pretty much positive that, if the intelligence community is in agreement on this, that it is North Korea.

CAMEROTA: And yet, Tom, we have heard that sophisticated hackers can make it seem as though someone else did it, as though the hack originated from a different computer system. So can you be certain?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, that's true, Alisyn. And it makes it more difficult to be certain.

But the reason they're more sure in this case is because it's very similar in methodology to other hacks that did come from North Korea, especially into the South Korean systems that Kyung just mentioned. So they have that aspect.

But they're not going to reveal every way that they've been able to determine this. Because much of the investigative technique in this area is classified, you know, when the FBI goes in and looks at computer penetrations.

CAMEROTA: Well, we are wondering about that. Sue, you worked at the White House. Will they release actual concrete evidence so the public can see it?

TERRY: I highly doubt that. That would go to sources and methods, and we don't want North Koreans and everybody else to find out exactly how we found out it was North Korea.

PERINO: So Tom, today it's a movie studio. What's to say that tomorrow it's not a nuclear power plant or it's not the electrical grid or it's not the NYPD? Is this -- do you fear that this is just a test run? Or this is just the tip of the iceberg?

FUENTES: Actually no. And the reason is because we've had these test runs going after 20 years against our systems. You know, we were dealing with this. I was having meetings, attending meetings within the FBI as far back as 1994 dealing with the topic of information warfare, which would -- which means an attempt by one country to attack the computer networks of another country to bring it to its knees.

The problem is the U.S. is the most vulnerable of any country in the world, because we rely on our computers the most. If somebody hacked into your building right now, and shut down the water pumping system, you'd have to evacuate because you wouldn't be able to flush the toilet. So everybody in the U.S. is actually more vulnerable because of our sophistication. A country like North Korea is less vulnerable from that standpoint, because they're already primitive.

CAMEROTA: So given that, what should the U.S. do about this? How does it send a message and how does it prevent this, Sue?

TERRY: Options are quite limited. North Korea is one of the most difficult problems that the U.S. has been dealt with. And that's why we've been dealing with this problem for 20 years.

But there are a number of things we can do. For example, I think we could put North Korea back on the state sponsors of terrorism list that we took North Korea off in the last year of the Bush administration.

CAMEROTA: And what does that accomplish?

TERRY: Well, it's more symbolic than anything else. But further squeezing Pyongyang. We can also pass House Resolution 1771 that's in the Senate floor right now, that imposes additional sanctions on North Korea.

But again it's really hard to combat the North Korean problem in general. Because -- and this is why we say it's one of the most difficult foreign policy challenges that we face.

CAMEROTA: Tom, I hear a lot of people online saying that the U.S. should retaliate by hacking North Korea. Is that the answer?

FUENTES: You know, Alisyn, there's going to be much in the way of response by the U.S. that we are never going to know. So I think, as Chris mentioned earlier, the silence being deafening, prepare to stay deaf, because I think all of the measures that will be taken, and are being probably taken right at this moment, we're not going to know.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but what do we get, Sue, from a retaliatory hack attack? Is that the right answer? Does that send the message loudest?

TERRY: No. No. And I don't think that's what the U.S. government is going to do. So I'm sure they're trying to figure out right now how to respond exactly. But -- there's what are we going to attack exactly? North Korea is one of the most unwired country in the world. So I don't think that's going to work.

CAMEROTA: Tom, last, what about Kyung Lah was talking about, this shadowy group of hackers, this Bureau 121? What do we know?

FUENTES: Well, we know that they have it, and we know they have probably a couple thousand people that they've trained with that. And, you know, this almost meets the exact definition of asymmetrical warfare. That you have a country that can't reliably launch a missile, even as close as Japan, much less reach the United States.

But if you can train a couple thousand, you know, top-level hackers like this, then they can cripple sophisticated countries that rely more extensively on its computer systems, as I mentioned, like the United States.

CAMEROTA: Sue, is there anything that Congress can do to prevent a hack attack?

TERRY: I'm not sure what the Congress can do. But...

CAMEROTA: Would more legislation help? Would more cyber security help?

TERRY: Tighten cyber security, I guess, in general, but I'm not sure of the specific things that Congress can take. I think what they should do is pass a resolution and sanctions against North Korea.

CAMEROTA: Got it. Sue Mi Terry, Tom Fuentes, thanks so much for all the information. Great to talk to you.

Let's get over to Michaela. There's other news.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Certainly, there is. Thanks, Alisyn. Here's your headlines right now.

Breaking overnight, another horrifying tragedy in Australia. Eight children were found stabbed to death in a home in Cairns along the northeast coast. These children were between the ages of 18 months and 15 years old.

Police say a 34-year-old woman was also wounded. She is believed to be the mother of seven of the children. No suspects have been identified at this time. We'll stay on that story.

The White House is not ruling out the possibility of Cuban president Raul Castro making a visit to Washington, despite the island's nation -- island nation's record of human rights violations.

In the meantime, we've also learned the name of the spy who was released with Alan Gross. Sources tell CNN he has been identified as Rolando Sarraff Trujillo, a Cuban national who helped lead the U.S. to a network of Cuban agents and other spies in the United States.

Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev spoke briefly during his first court appearance in a year and a half, acknowledging the judge on procedural issues. During the brief hearing, the judge heard another push from the defense to move the trial out of Boston. The judge did not issue a ruling on that yet. Meanwhile, outside the courthouse, emotions ran high. A survivor you

see here, confronting Tsarnaev supporters, showing them his prosthetic leg that he has to use after losing a limb in the attack. The trial is scheduled to begin early next year.

Stephen Colbert bidding farewell to his Colbert Nation, signing off from his final show on Comedy Central last night after nine years on the air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, OUTGOING HOST, COMEDY CENTRAL'S "THE COLBERT REPORT": The truthiness is all of those incredible things people say I did -- running for president, saving the Olympics, Colbert super PAC, treadmill in space, the rally to restore sanity and/or fear and/or Cat Stevens' career -- none of that -- none of that was really me. You, the nation, did all of that. I just got paid for it. Thanks.

GRAPHIC: Mostly in Bud Light Lime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Light Lime, curious choice. Curious choice, Bud Light Lime.

Colbert also led a sing-along to the popular hit, "We'll Meet Again." Look at some of the faces in that crowd...

CUOMO: Franco!

PEREIRA: ... celebrities, journalists, including our very own Christiane Amanpour, singing -- look at that -- a robust song from her. I love that.

Colbert will replace David Letterman as host of "The Late Show" next fall. Cookie Monster.

CAMEROTA: Look at Cookie Monster!

PEREIRA: Fantastic, Arianna.

CAMEROTA: My gosh.

PEREIRA: Quite a crowd gathering. Some as if they were doing it against their will.

CUOMO: The power of Colbert. He got Franco out there.

PEREIRA: I know.

CUOMO: Part of the Sony hack situation there, they said he wasn't doing any media.

PEREIRA: Well, that show.

CUOMO: Oprah-esque in its grandeur.

PEREIRA: That's great. It will be interesting to see what Stephen Colbert's personality is.

CAMEROTA: Very curious.

PEREIRA: We'll talk about that a little later. Who is the man behind this character we've seen on Comedy Central?

CUOMO: And does he go full Colbert?

CAMEROTA: Who?

PEREIRA: Right.

CAMEROTA: Interesting.

CUOMO: He's from Canada. Probably get the inside scoop.

PEREIRA: I don't think he is.

CUOMO: He's from Ca-NA-da.

CAMEROTA: I don't either.

CUOMO: I'm trying to build -- trying to build a little intrigue.

PEREIRA: He had Cuban coffee yesterday.

CUOMO: That's true. It's still in my system. So I'll get back to reality.

President Obama has a very tough reality in front of him. Right? This is supposed to be a lame-duck session, but he doesn't seem to know that. He's fighting back against a do-nothing Congress by making some major -- could argue -- historic moves and just in recent weeks. So what's next on the agenda?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: President Obama does not seem to get what "lame duck" means. He's like the AFLAC goose, making all kinds of moves, especially since the mid-term election beat-down.

So let's discuss the ramifications and repercussions of his actions, some historic. We have CNN political analyst and editor in chief of "The Daily Beast," Mr. John Avlon; and CNN political commentator and Republican consultant, Margaret Hoover.

Margaret Hoover, I allow you to make the case for President Obama's audacity here recently: historic-making move in China, you know, with the trade deal. Another historic move here with Cuba. Going after it on immigration himself. How impressed are you by these moves?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. That's what you call a tree falling in the forest. As you know, I'm not a huge fan.

Look, what we know is that presidents in their last two years, especially when it's a lame duck Congress, when that Congress begins, actually basically have the authority to act unilaterally on foreign policy, and that's about it. I mean, what President Bush did in the last two years of his administration was really focus heavily on Iraq, because the surge had been implemented; and he was working very hard to make sure that he left office with Iraq in a more stable situation, but he didn't take all of what he did, actually, with the surge...

CUOMO: Mission accomplished, I remember it well.

HOOVER: Well, actually, that was after that, lest I remind you of the chronology. And nobody is defending that any more. Don't worry: We won't go there this morning.

But in this case, it's quite interesting, because the president hasn't even allowed the new Congress to come into Washington yet. So he didn't even give peace a chance. He's just gone straight to the border, straight to immigration, straight to all of these pieces which he's going to call legacy pieces and, you know, made it quite difficult or suggested that he's not interested in giving it a go when the new Congress comes in.

CAMEROTA: John, should he have given Congress a chance?

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I'm all for giving peace a chance, but I also think that you can't be naive. And the president, what he's looking at is a different style of a lame duck. This is a liberated lame duck.

You know, sometimes the president has talked to aides about going full Bullworth. He's going to go, he's going to take charge. He's going to say and do what he means. And you're seeing that. He's not, you know, simply marking time here. He's playing for the legacy; he's swinging for the fences. Cuba, a bold move, overturning what ten presidents have done, that status quo. Immigration action and climate change.

And I think part of what it is is that he's not -- determined he's not going to be Lucy and the football. Mitch McConnell saying he wants to work together, that's great. But let's not put too much hope in the prospect of Republicans work. He's going to take action, have them react to him.

CUOMO: So you saw my AFLAC reference and you upped me, with Bullworth and Lucy and the football.

AVLON: That's what happens.

CUOMO: Strong. The word you left out of the analysis, however, Margaret, was Latinos. This move with Cuba, right, that's going to have implications for the Latino community. This move on immigration, implications for the Latino community. You could say there's a big plus-minus there.

HOOVER: Immigration, yes. But remember, Cubans are not the majority population of Hispanics in this country.

CUOMO: True, but influential. HOOVER: Influential, yes, but also normally not aligned with -- going to be aligned with this policy. I mean, the majority...

CUOMO: That's why I'm saying plus-minus. I gave you an opening there.

HOOVER: I understand what you're saying there. You're saying this is going to ameliorate the benefits...

CUOMO: One on side, but it could exacerbate the other.

AVLON: That's actually not the case, though.

HOOVER: The next generation of humans, actually, are not necessarily in favor of the same policies that the predecessors...

AVLON: And that's what's significant. President Obama won Cubans in South Florida last cycle in 2012 narrowly, but he did. So there's a big generational divide in that community. And that's one of the reasons I think he feels he can make this calculation without screwing Democrats in Florida going forward.

CAMEROTA: Margaret, one of the interesting things that President Obama is doing, some would say tricky, is passing this whole slew of presidential memoranda. It's basically the same as an executive order, but it's a different name, and it circumvents Congress. He has passed more of these presidential memos than any of his predecessors. So what's going -- what is he trying to do with these?

HOOVER: This is really -- this is the hallmark of a president who hasn't been able to pass landmark legislation with Congress or even work functionally with Congress. They fall back on the powers of the executive branch.

And what's fascinating is the president has several times compared his record of executive orders to his predecessor's and said, "You call me the person who's having executive overreach. But I've had less executive orders than George W. Bush or than any president before me."

But then when you look at, really, the difference between a presidential memoranda and executive order, functionally they're the same. There are subtle differences, but functionally, they're the same thing. They're almost interchangeable and he's had far more than anyone else.

AVLON: Look, I think folks really, really, really want, they're so invested in the imperial presidency metaphor, that they're going to go hunting around for anything that backs it up. Look, the exec...

CAMEROTA: But he did pass the presidential memos.

AVLON: Yes, but the -- the presidential memorandum is sort of a junior version of executive order. You've got to go apples to apples.

And second of all, I think it is a -- it is a presidential action with the force of law. So it's absolutely worth factoring in. And he's had, I think, more than anyone since Carter on this -- on this topic. And if the trend continues, it will be Truman.

So it is an interesting facet and factor. Justice Elena Kagan, when she was in the Clinton White House, talked about how presidents could use this more effectively, and President Clinton did.

But I do think there's a -- as we look to try and get perspective on the historic record, you've got to acknowledge, first of all, less executive actions than any of his predecessors but more presidential memoranda.

CUOMO: Seems like you're playing a little...

HOOVER: You go to far -- far -- I want to be careful, but you do go to great lengths to defend President Obama in some cases. I think this might be one of those cases.

CUOMO: That was very circumspect of you. I thought you were going to smack him. With the hand.

HOOVER: Trying to be generous with my husband this morning.

CUOMO: So let's go forward. What do you think he will do going forward? Will we see more of these? And if so, what areas?

HOOVER: I think there's no reason to suggest he would slow down. And frankly, it sounds like it's pedal to the metal. I mean, he's got two years to continue putting memoranda up.

CUOMO: Like what?

CAMEROTA: What subject?

HOOVER: The thing about these is that they can be quite trivial, as well. I mean, you can simply rename the national security staff with a presidential memoranda or an executive order.

CUOMO: He looks legacy -- he looks legacy-driven, though.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: So like what? What do you think, John?

AVLON: First of all, let's talk about the areas where I think he still can get something done with Congress, but I think it's going to be trade. It's going to be possibly infrastructure investment and maybe corporate tax reform. That's the limited area. Because those -- that's really in Republicans' interest, as well, philosophically and practically.

Beyond that, almost anything he is going to look to do will require probably executive action or be in the realm of foreign policy. The big obvious thing that we're going to have to deal with as a nation next year is ISIS. That's going to be all foreign policy, military policy. And he's going to have to find a way to work with some extent with John McCain as chairman of the foreign services. CAMEROTA: But isn't everybody on the same page with ISIS, fighting

ISIS? Isn't that one where Congress and the president could come on...

CUOMO: They haven't even declared war yet. They don't have a vote on.

HOOVER: The strategy -- there's a real difference in strategy and there's a real difference in how to execute a war against -- a war against ISIS. So while, certainly, we all agree that they're the bad guys? We don't agree about how to -- how to go about it.

CAMEROTA: Margaret, John, thanks so much, have a great weekend.

Let us know what you think about this. You can tweet us, @NewDay, or go to Facebook.com/NewDay. We'd love to hear your thoughts. We'll share them later.

CUOMO: Boko Haram, they haven't been in the headlines lately, but man, they've been active. Another mass kidnapping, murders, fears rising over what could come next. The question is, is anything being done to stop this terror group?

Plus, U.S. officials now believe North Korea is, in fact, behind this massive cyber attack on Sony. So what is North Korea's secretive Bureau 121? This hand-picked pampered elite cyberwarfare terror cell? We have information ahead for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Good to have you back with us on NEW DAY. I'm going to turn now to Boko Haram's latest campaign of violence and terror. That group overtook a Nigerian village this past week by killing dozens of men, kidnapping 185 women and children. Nima ElBagir has done some extensive reporting, fantastic reporting here on CNN. She joins us now from London with the very latest -- Emma.

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Morning, Michaela. Well, it is so difficult to get detailed information out of this region. We are building a picture of an extensive series of attacks.

The first attack was in Chibok itself, the site of that abduction of at least 300 women and girls back in April of this year. From there they moved on to Kondstory (ph), and that's where they hit again and abducted 185 women and girls there.

Speaking to Nigerian authorities, there is no sense that they even have a trail to follow. There really is no sense for the Nigerians, as they start to look towards Christmas, that they feel that there is any sense of push-back, any support from their government from their armed forces. Many of those we've been speaking to, Michaela, say that they feel even more helpless than they have ever before with these new attacks.

PEREIRA: The previous attack took out communications. That's why it took so long for this latest attack to be made public and for authorities to know of it. Nima Elbagir in London, thanks so much for that.

Here's some more of your headlines now.