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New Day

Two New York City Police Officers Killed; President Obama's Task Force on 21st Century Policing; Interview with Rudy Giuliani; Interview with Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger

Aired December 22, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A 13-year-old bringing the senselessness of all this into focus. These families have questions that of course will never be answered. But we are learning about the gunman. We know that he has extensive criminal record. He was arrested 19 times, spent two years in prison. And, Chris, he had admitted in the past to a judge to having mental health issues.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Obviously they went untreated, or insufficiently so. Alexandra, thank you for the reporting. And no matter what the gunman says about his motivations with respect to Michael Brown and Eric Garner, he also shot his girlfriend. And he is someone who should be quickly dismissed in this situation. However, the problems should not be.

Let's bring in former New York City police commissioner Ray Kelly. He's also president for risk management services for Cushman and Wakefield. And Charles Ramsey, he is police chief in Philadelphia and the co-chair of President Obama's taskforce 21st century policing. Thank you gentlemen, both of you, for joining us. Commissioner, I've relied on you heavily in the past to understand situations that are going on. Let's dismiss the guy that did this. He had no good reason to do it and he seems he had plenty of trouble. The reality, though, is we do have a problem here right now. And I want your take on why do you think things are the way they are right now?

RAY KELLY, FORMER NYPD COMMISSIONER: Well, a lot of reasons. Obviously the Garner case and the Michael Brown case have brought these issues to a fore. I think in this city we had a mayoral campaign that was based on some of these issues. It's sort of been kept out there for a while.

CUOMO: You've been outspoken about the mayor. Bratton, the current commissioner, came out and said he was antipolice policy, not antipolice. But the mayor has said things you feel should be focused on. For example, let's play the sound of the mayor talking about the culture of policing with respect to his own family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, (D) NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Shirley and I have had to talk to Dante for years about the dangers that he may face. Good young man, law abiding young man who never would think to do anything wrong, and yet because history still hangs over us, the dangers he may face, we've had to literally train him as families have all over this city for decades.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: This bothered you?

KELLY: The mayor said that during his campaign. There are certain things you keep inside and don't say publicly certainly when you're the mayor of all the people. So I think saying that at that time, yes, was inappropriate.

But, you know, it goes beyond the mayor. Obviously the Garner case and Brown case have focused the world's attention on issues involving race and the police.

CUOMO: You're never going to find justification for what happened to the officers. It was a senseless crime done by somebody who may have had no sense is. But the issues that the mayor is speaking to there, that there's a culture in the black community that they're afraid of what will happen when they come into contact with cops. That's not something to avoid either. Do you believe that that's a reality?

KELLY: I think it is a reality with some in the community. I think the police have worked hard to address that issue certainly in this city. We have a police department that police officer ranked is majority-minority. This is the most diverse city in the world. We have police officers born in 106 countries. That is incredible. No other police department in the world could come close to that. So these issues are complex. They shouldn't be handled with a bumper sticker. And we have to work together to address them.

CUOMO: For all talk about black and white, it's worth noting the officer who lost their lives were named Liu and Ramos.

KELLY: Yes, and they reflect the diversity of the department.

CUOMO: So chief, a lot of this comes down to leadership and the vacuum of or the appropriateness of leadership. The president now starting a taskforce to think about changes. You spoke to the president in the wake of this situation. What is his message and take on what has to happen?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CO-CHAIR, PRESIDENT OBAMA'S TASKFORCE ON 21ST CENTURY POLICING: Well, first of all let me start by saying the president began the conversation by again expressing his outrage at the senseless murders of two police officers in New York City. And once again reemphasized the need for the taskforce to move forward with its work to look at ways to build bridges between police and community. I agree with my good friend Ray Kelly. There are some people that certainly harbor very, very negative attitudes towards police. And we need to find a way to reach those people and try to do everything we can to close that gap. And the president is very serious about this. He gave us 90 days to come up with concrete recommendations which we will do.

CUOMO: How do you fix culture in 90 days? RAMSEY: I don't know if you fix culture in 90 days but you certainly

can have recommendations that need to be moved forward. So this is a period of time we can establish a framework for discussion, for dialogue, for action to move forward. Nothing is going to be fixed in 90 days. It could take a generation to fix some of the issues, social issues that face us in many of our communities. But you have to start somewhere. And it starts with a plan, it starts with a framework. And that's what the president is looking for.

CUOMO: Commissioner, you think that we've allowed tone to get away from us a little bit in these protests, that they've become too focused on animosity toward the police? We were talking about how the protests were odd in populations here in the city. I had a lot of young, white kids yelling at me "End white supremacy." Do you think tone got away from us a little here?

KELLY: Perhaps. I think if you allow people to take over bridges and roadways, it's only going to ultimately embolden them. Here you have 35,000 uniform officers. You don't have to make a lot of arrests. We can just prevent people from going on the bridge, from taking over roadways, or move them quickly. But I think there is an issue if you tolerate a lot of things, and of course that impacts on other people's lives, that it will embolden them to do more. and I think that's perhaps what happens when our police officers were assaulted on the bridge last week.

CUOMO: So it's not just about giving freedom of expression. You believe that the limits are required not to suppress but to safeguard?

KELLY: I think you have to consider everyone's rights in this regard. And I think you know, you don't have a right to totally inconvenience people, shut down a bridge in this, arguably the most important city in the world, for an hour, an hour-and-a-half. I think that's going a little bit too far.

CUOMO: Do you think the mayor can heal things in the city right now?

KELLY: I think we have to get together. I think we need perhaps an intermediary to do that. It's time for rhetoric to be toned down and have someone, perhaps a religious leader, come and work with both sides if you will.

CUOMO: What are two sides?

KELLY: Well, obviously the unions and the administration. We need them to get together. This city is complex, sensitive. I believe the police have transformed the city in the last two decades. This was the murder capital of the United States in 1990. Now last year we had had incredible low number of murders, the lowest in shootings, that sort of thing. And that has brought about a tremendous rebirth in terms of real estate and businesses in New York. We don't want that to slip back. So we have to get them together in some way, shape, or form to continue to help police the city. As I say, it's a complex environment here.

CUOMO: Chief Ramsey, Commissioner Kelly, thank you very much for your perspective on these things. We look forward to seeing the work of the task force yields, Chief, and we know you'll be a voice trying to move us in the right direction in the city.

KELLY: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Thank you, Chuck.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

CUOMO: A lot of news this morning, so let's get you to Christine Romans in for Michaela. She's got the top stories.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks so much. Let's look at some more of your headlines. North Korea vowing to escalate attacks on America all while denying responsibility for the hack on Sony. President Obama says he will punish the authoritarian regime. Pyongyang could even be added back onto the list of states that sponsor terrorism. Meantime a lawyer for Sony says the film that started the controversy will be released environment. The timing and the platform is unclear.

Pope Francis this morning with some harsh words for leaders of the Vatican bureaucracy. In his annual Christmas address he offered a blistering critique, saying many in the hierarchy view themselves as superior and have forgotten the spiritual guidance of god. The pontiff accused the leaders of gossiping and being indifferent of others rather than showing optimism and cheerfulness.

Florida State Jameis Winston has been cleared of sexual assault allegations by the University. A code of conduct hearing found insufficient evidence to satisfy the burden of proof. The woman making the allegation has five days to appeal. Her attorney says she feels duped and is convinced the university will never hold Winston accountable. The Heisman Trophy winning quarterback's advisers are not commenting.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Too many of those stories lately.

CUOMO: I called you Mic by the way.

ROMANS: I took that as a complement.

CUOMO: Sign of endearment.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much, Christine.

As much as we saw at Thanksgiving, a major storm could be set to disrupt millions of holiday travel later this week. Let's get right to meteorologist Jennifer Gray. She's keeping track of the latest forecast. How's it looking, Jennifer?

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, we're already starting to see the rain in the southeast, and that is just going to continue as the week goes on. It's going to impact the mid-Atlantic, also the northeast. Some areas will wake up to a white Christmas, but the majority of this storm will be rain. Already seeing it in the southeast. As we go through tomorrow possibility of severe weather anywhere from south Louisiana all the way over to Florida panhandle.

And look at rain all the way from Chicago down into central Florida, even a couple of showers in the northeast. Snow possible right around the Great Lakes. And then as we go through Christmas Eve, still a couple of flurries anywhere from Oklahoma all the way up to portions of Illinois. We'll see rain across much of the east coast. We could see a little bit of a mixture across the Great Lakes as well.

Christmas Day doesn't look so bad. But a lot of people traveling Tuesday and Wednesday, that's when we're going to see a lot of trouble. We are going to see incredible amounts of rain across the southeast, could see anywhere from six to eight inches right around the panhandle. Guys, we're also going to be looking at 30 miles per hour winds across the mid-Atlantic and the northeast by tomorrow and Wednesday.

CAMEROTA: All right, we'll keep an eye on that, Jennifer. Thanks so much.

So the massive hack at Sony making it painfully clear how vulnerable companies and individuals are to cyber-attacks. So why has a cyber- security bill stalled in Congress? We'll speak to one of the sponsors of that bill.

CUOMO: And New York City is in mourning today as a deranged killer guns down two police officers. Is it right to blame the current mayor and his rhetoric for a senseless act? We have former mayor Rudy Giuliani. He's here and he has his take on the situation for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: North Korea issuing new threats and promising attacks against the United States after being blamed for the massive Sony hack. The U.S. considering putting North Korea back on the list of state sponsors of terrorism. Listen to what President Obama told Candy Crowley on "STATE OF THE UNION."

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't think it was an act of war, I think it was an act of cyber vandalism that was very costly, very expensive. We take it very seriously. We will respond proportionately.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, what will the administration do to protect against another cyber attack? Joining us now is Congressman Dutch Ruppersberger, he's a Democrat from Maryland and a ranking member of the House Select Committee on Intelligence. Good morning, Congressman.

REP. C.A. "DUTCH" RUPPERSBERGER, (D) MARYLAND: Good morning. CAMEROTA: You have been warning Congress and anyone who will listen

for a couple of years about the danger of a coming cyber attack. Were people not taking you seriously?

RUPPERSBERGER: Well, Chairman Mike Rogers and I have been focussing on cyber attacks for quite some time. I'm very concerned about not only weapons of mass destruction, but also cyber attacks, one of the most serious issues facing our country and world down the road. Right now, as an example, we are being attacked by countries like China and other countries where we have had over $2 billion stolen from our country, trade secrets, that type of thing. But what's happened with North Korea is entirely different, and this kind of cyber attack is called a destructive attack, an attack where you come in and you shut down systems, and it's very, very serious and we have to deal with this.

The public needs to understand that these cyber attacks are going to be warfare of the future and we have to do whatever we can, working with our intelligence community and our military, to protect us from these attacks and work with our allies to protect them also.

CAMEROTA: Now, just last week, as we understand it, Congress finally passed four different pieces of bills about cyber security, but as I understand it, none of them were yours. Does this legislation go far enough?

RUPPERSBERGER: Yes, well we're working with the Homeland Security Committee, Congressman McCaul and Congressman - - the Democratic Congressman Bennie and we are trying or attempting to do is to put together with them and also our Judiciary Committee and other committees and a bill that will allow the information sharing of cyber attacks. Let me explain what I mean.

When attacks are coming in, our Intelligence Committee sees these attacks. But based on the current law right now, the Intelligence Committee can't share the information until these companies, like a Target or like other companies, that these attacks are coming. It's like being a weather forecaster, having Sandy come up the East coast, and you can't warn anybody. So, Chairman Rogers and I, along with our committees, put together a bill called a Information Sharing Bill. It passed the House, which is unusual for this House to have a bipartisan bill passed, but the bill was passed and it went to the Senate and it didn't pass in the Senate. We have to make sure that we get the administration, that we get the Senate, and the House again to reintroduce a bill on information sharing so that we can protect our country from these attacks.

CAMEROTA: But, let's use - -

RUPPERSBERGER: Again, the North Korea - Sure.

CAMEROTA: Well, Congressman, let's just use the example of what happened to Sony. How would that legislation have changed anything?

RUPPERSBERGER" Well, what it does, it gives information that the intelligence community sees this information coming in, these attacks coming in and it works with the companies. Sony is an example, it cannot handle what's happening right now. They've totally had their systems knocked out and they had information stolen. All of their personal information, their emails - -

CAMEROTA: Sure, but did the intelligence community see this one coming? I mean, was this something that the intelligence community could have alerted Sony to?

RUPPERSBERGER: It depends on individual cases, but in most situations the Intelligence Committee can see these attacks that are coming and work with them to stop them, and that's what we have to do. But there's another issue here, too. North Korea, this is the first major destructive attack that we've had. Not stealing, but this is destructive attack. And just think what could happen down the future if North Korea wanted to knock out a grid system, an energy system, knock out air traffic control.

These are very serious issues that we have to deal with, but we need the legislation to move forward in order to protect our country and that's not happening. We have worked in our legislation with the HLU, we have listened to people about privacy issues, and our bill is a bill that deals with privacy. You know, I happen to be an attorney. We follow the Constitution, but we also need to protect our country and we have to move forward.

The debate has been there, it's passed the House by close to 300 votes. We have to get the White House and the Senate to work with us to pass legislation so we can protect us to make sure we don't have other Sonys. Then you have North Korea, a different issue. We have got to stand up and they have to hold them accountable for what they've done to let North Korea and other countries know, you attack the United States of America, you're going to pay for it.

CAMEROTA: And Congressman, what does that mean hold them accountable? What action would you like to see against North Korea?

RUPPERSBERGER: Well, first thing, what you have to - - it has to be a measured account. I mean, it's based on what they did to us, we have to show them that there are going to be consequences. Whether they're sanctions, whatever we do, and I can't really talk about the offensive right now. But we're going to have to do something to hold them accountable. You cannot attack the United States of America and just let it go.

This is a destructive attack, the first one we've had from another country, and we have to be very strong and yet measure the attack and what we're going to do. And the rhetoric that they're threatening, they're going to attack the White House, they're going to attack the Pentagon. That's typical North Korea, their propaganda. But, you know, we do have to measure this response, but we have to make sure the world knows don't attack the United States of America.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Dutch Ruppersberger, thanks so much for joining us this morning on NEW DAY.

RUPPERSBERGER: Okay.

CAMEROTA: Nice to see you.

RUPPERSBERGER: Sure.

CAMEROTA: Let's go back to Chris.

RUPPERSBERGER: Sure.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. Two New York police department officers gunned down, an act for which there is no justification. Now, critics say politicians may be to blame, at least in part. One of these critics, a big name politician himself, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani. He is here for his perspective on what needed to happen with the current mayor that didn't.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: Time now for the five things to know for your NEW DAY. Number one, New York City police on heightened alert after the execution style shooting death of two of its officers. The family of one of the slain officers is calling for calm.

The president is weighing action against North Korea following the Sony hack attack. The regime denying any involvement and then promising new, worse attacks against America.

French police have arrested the man they say drove his car into pedestrians Sunday in the city of Dijon. At least 12 people were injured. Witnesses say the suspect was yelling "God is great" in Arabic as he mowed down his victims.

Border patrol officers have taken a Canadian man into custody after they say he waived a gun towards them. It happened on a bridge that links Canada and Detroit. The gun turned out to be a replica.

And today the FAA and industry experts will unveil a long-awaited safety campaign, it will give drone users information they need to operate safely and responsibly following a series of near misses with commercial planes.

We're always updating the five things to know, so go to NEWDAYCNN.com for the latest. Alisyn, Chris?

CAMEROTA: Okay, Christine. Well, as New York City mourns the deaths of two police officers killed in the line of duty on Saturday, the city's mayor, Bill de Blasio, facing criticism for a perceived lack of support for the police department. Union leaders criticizing the mayor for his response to the protests over the Eric Garner grand jury decision. Many say that de Blasio sided with the protestors rather than the police. So, let's bring in for his perspective the former mayor of New York City, Rudy Giuliani.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Mayor, great to see you.

GIULIANI: Good morning. CAMEROTA: Wow, that image of the police officers literally turning their backs - -

GIULIANI: Can't imagine that.

CAMEROTA: - - on the mayor.

GIULIANI: Can't imagine having been mayor eight years and been to about 24 of those, I lost 25 police officers before September 11. And then seeing Mayor Bloomberg, it's very hard to comprehend that, except you have to understand police officers. I have four uncles who were police officers and I ran the police department. And first of all, let's separate ourselves from the comment that the blood of these police officers on the mayor's hands. That's not true.

CAMEROTA: So you disagree with the union leader.

GIULIANI: I do. I love Pat Lynch.

CAMEROTA: It was Pat Lynch --

GIULIANI: I think Pat is a wonderful leader, I think he's a great guy. Coming out of there, tremendous emotion, you have to understand it. These men and women are like brothers and sisters. This is like losing your brother, so I think he overstated it. And the idea that the mayor should resign, I don't agree with that, and I don't think the police officers should have turned their back.

Now, had I been one of those police officers at that very moment, I'm not sure I wouldn't have turned my back, but I don't think they should have. But I do think the mayor has some accountability here. He's been participating in this hate speech against police officers for the last two or three months.

CAMEROTA: Like what? What sort of hate speech has he said other than talking about his own son's experience?

GIULIANI: Well, first of all, he's allowed rallies to take place in which people are yelling and screaming "Kill the police, kill the police, get the police." Police officers have been attacked. Police officers have been attacked with an ax. There's been no significant action taken.

He's also allowed protesting that I had stopped in this city and Ray Kelly and Mike Bloomberg continued. You don't get to take streets of New York City. When did that ever happen? You take the FDR drive, you take the Brooklyn Bridge? I went to court and stopped people from doing that, and I'm going to tell you why. Because ambulances rush through the streets of this city and somebody can die of a heart attack because some idiot is yelling "kill the police." And I won those cases in court and we never allowed protests like that. Now, you start letting that get out of control and the police start getting an impression of you that you're agreeing with them, when they're yelling "kill the police, kill the police, kill the police."

CUOMO: Some people were saying that. We were both out there. I was in the thick of those protests and they were saying worse things than that, too about the police, about the media, about a lot of people. But that wasn't the main part. The main part were protests asking for change, asking for reforms of policies, and don't you want to be careful about silencing that because it's a legitimate grievance?

GIULIANI: You don't want to silence it, but it doesn't have the right to take over the city, it doesn't have the right to cost a person their life because an ambulance can't get through, doesn't have the right to take over the Brooklyn Bridge so a man can't get home from work. You can protest in an appropriate place and in an appropriate manner. That's perfect first amendment law. That's why protest has a place, you know, across the street from the president rather than right next to the president. They get to make their point, but they don't get to take over the city. And when you see the protestors taking over the city, then all of a sudden the police get the impression that you're supporting them, not him There's no question he was supporting the protestors and not the police. Then the strange comment about his son, that he tells his son to be careful of the police.

CAMEROTA: Well, his son is biracial. I mean, it sounds as though --

GIULIANI: Well, then his son has a nine times greater chance of being killed by another black than a police officer. So what he should be talking to him about is hey, take care of yourself in the street, son, because your chance of being killed by a police officer is miniscule. Your chance of being killed by another black is monumental. They mayor- -

CUOMO: You know what's behind his statement, though, Mr. Mayor.