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AQAP May Benefit from Yemen Battle; European Leaders Meet to Talk Terrorism; Shots Fired Near Biden's Delaware Home; Paris Terrorists Had Dark Past; Congressional Delegation in Cuba

Aired January 19, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Meanwhile, growing concerns that al Qaeda's branch in Yemen, which claimed responsible for the "Charlie Hebdo" attack, may benefit from all of this growing instability in Yemen. That country's prime minister now in hiding after coming under heavy, heavy fire as he left a meeting with Yemen's president at a Houti (ph) political group. Fighting between government forces and Houti Shiite rebels has been raging near Yemen's presidential palace, potentially giving AQAP an opportunity to make its move.

Let's get the very latest from senior international correspondent Nic Paton Walsh, the only western TV journalist there -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, that fighting is still ongoing now. Every once in a while you seem to hear the shelling stop, but then it picks up again around the presidential administration, the palace.

Let me tell you how this started. The president's people deeply concerned after the kidnap of their chief of staff, that more key officials could be abducted. The Houthis admitted they have, quote, "detained" the chief of staff to stop a new constitution being implemented.

They -- the president's people introduced a security plan around key buildings. That angered the Houthis. They wanted the roads unblocked, they say for the people. We don't know who shot first. That firing is still continuing now. It's turned into artillery duel around the Presidential Administration.

The prime minister attending a meeting where they were supposed to be discussing a ceasefire shot at as he left. His people blame the Houthis. The Houthis say, "We have nothing to do with that." One of their convoy, the Houthi convoy, also attacked as it left that same ceasefire, many sides blaming a third party here, unknown individuals.

A huge mess on the streets here, the fighting ongoing. And a state TV and a state news agency seem to be falling under Houthi hands, although the Houthis do deny this, too. That's Houthi Shia rebel movement, that swept into the capital months ago. Organized, disciplined. Predominantly Shia. Is causing many deep concerns here. We're lurching further toward wider conflict, and that conflict simply causes chaos. It makes it easier for al Qaeda, yes, to gain recruits in here, but also to find frightened Sunnis who see the Shia advance as something they should be scared of, who are willing to join sides, more or less on the same side of the fence as al Qaeda. That simply makes them stronger here -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Nick. Thank you very much for the reporting. Please be safe. There's a reason that you're one of the only western journalists in Yemen right now.

Alisyn, there are a lot of different fronts in this situation. Let's get to another one.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: There sure are. Let's go right now to Ivan Watson. He is live for us in Brussels with the latest there -- Ivan.

IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The top diplomats from Europe are gathering here, Alisyn, right now for a meeting. The top of their agenda is discussing terrorist threat in the wake of the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks and in the wake of a police raid here in Brussels last Thursday that ended up in a gun battle with suspects, two of whom were killed. They were part of an alleged plot to attack Belgium police.

We have since learned that a third suspect who was arrested in that house where the gun battle took place has been identified by his defense attorney as a 25-year-old Belgium citizen of Moroccan descent named Marwan Albali (ph). He's from here in Brussels. His defense attorney insists that his client is innocent of charges of participation in a terrorist organization. He insists that his client is a licensed security guard here, who was only going to the house where the police raid took place last Thursday to deliver some Nike sneakers to one of the suspects, who was later killed.

Marwan Albali (ph) then described jumping out of a window to escape the gun battle. He's currently being held in a prison. And four of his family members were briefly detained by police in a police raid at the time that he also was arrested, in another city. Those people have since been released.

Belgian authorities have also demanded the extradition of two more Belgian suspects who were arrested in France and another man who was arrested if Greece that they believe are also linked to this alleged jihadi plot -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Ivan. Thank you very much for bringing us the latest from Brussels.

I don't know about you, but my head is spinning with all these arrests, and all these different countries, everything going on seemingly at once. Why?

Let's try to figure it out. Let's bring in Christiane Amanpour, chief international correspondent; and Fran Townsend, CNN national security analyst.

Fran, I start with you. I'm not kidding. I mean, this is -- you know, let's just take a look at the numbers. Police raids and arrests across Europe just this weekend. OK. Two raids in Brussels on Sunday, no arrests made. But five Belgian nationals were charged after the raid Thursday in Verviers. Did I say that right?

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes.

CUOMO: Good. Three in custody, two released under strict conditions, whatever that means. Four arrests in Athens on Saturday, two arrests in Germany on Friday, nine suspects still detained in France. Belgium requesting the extradition of one of those that was arrested in Greece.

So the obvious question is this: is there any connection to this? Or is this just connecting the dots of paranoia of everybody getting after the problem before they become the next Paris?

TOWNSEND: Well, your head is spinning, Chris, because it's not entirely clear how related, if at all, these are.

There is some belief that the -- at least one of the individuals in Greece is related to the Belgian cell. The question is, are any of these related to what went on in Paris amid "Charlie Hebdo" investigations?

But I think what you're seeing is, right, we saw all these foreign fighters who went over into the Syria and Iraq war theater and came back. And this is a problem that is pervasive throughout Europe. Whether or not these guys are related, the foreign fighter threat in western Europe is pervasive. And I think you're going to continue to see these sorts of investigations.

The other problem is, of course, with the Schengen visas, these guys can travel in between European countries unobstructed, if you will.

CUOMO: Right.

TOWNSEND: And so that also is a challenge. The problem here is, while there's been large immigration in the euro zone, that has not applied where law enforcement and intelligence are concerned. And so there is not great sharing, up to now, of these threats across European countries.

CUOMO: All right. So we get the threat. We get everything that you just said, I think. But it's not new. Christiane, this isn't new, these things that they're dealing with here. But why this flurry of activity right now? Has this been going on and we've just not been covering it?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, we've been covering it. I think what we're witnessing and what we're covering is a mutating, constantly morphing threat. The serious threat after ISIS was one that the western intelligence and security community identified as the current big threat.

In other words, the blowback that Fran was just talking about. European Muslims, being recruited in any which way to go over to fight in Syria and Iraq for ISIS. And then not just coming back but being instructed to come back and attack their home countries. That's the ISIS model right now. And that's kind of what we saw and what the Belgians say. This is a Syria-related plot.

This also in the wake of the head of the MI-5, which is Britain's internal intelligence service, saying that over the last 20 months or so, they have thwarted, you know, dozens of plots related to Syria. So that's one thing.

Then you have al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, AQAP, popping up with the Kouachi brothers. And some are saying that perhaps European, western, other intelligence were so focused on the Syria/ISIS threat that briefly, or maybe not briefly, they took their eye off the al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula threat. So all of that is sort of coming at the same time.

And to build on what Fran said about Schengen and the free flow of people and passengers around certain European countries, I spoke to the head of the E.U. anti-terror unit, who said that what they really hope and what they plan to get is a PNR, which is what America got after 9/11, passenger name records. They need to have that, and they need -- they feel that the political will is there right now by the people to -- to allow that.

CUOMO: All right. So Fran, one, it seems like phone surveillance. We had a lot of fight about it here in the U.S., and we'll talk about that, but it seemed to have worked here. I want you to tell us why. I want you to explain what the Schengen thing is that we're talking about. And explain why Belgium is all of a sudden a terror threat, the relative to its population fact that it has more foreign fighters than any other European country per capita, as many as 450. Why Belgium? What are these Schengen things? You know, and what does that make? Let's hit (ph) the list.

TOWNSEND: So the Schengen visa, at the establishment of the Euro Zone, allowed, if you were either a valid -- a citizen or a valid visa holder, passport holder of any of those countries in the European Union, you could travel freely among -- among those countries...

CUOMO: Right.

TOWNSEND: ... without a visa. And so it sort of lowered the borders, if you will.

CUOMO: It's supposed to encourage commerce and get people flowing in and out. It was one of the fundamental reasons to have the E.U. But now it's become what?

TOWNSEND: That's right. Well, it's become a freedom of movement, if you will, of people. And the bad guys are taking advantage of that. And that's the real challenge for them.

And that wouldn't be so bad, Chris, if you had the same sort of free flow of intelligence information.

CUOMO: Yes, that's right.

TOWNSEND: And that's what -- that's exactly what Christiane was talking about. If you can get the PNR data, the passenger name recognition data, it will allow them to track more easily those persons of interest.

CUOMO: So the bad guys are moving around more quickly than the intelligence can follow?

TOWNSEND: That's exactly right.

CUOMO: What about Belgium? Why do they have so many fighters?

TOWNSEND: You know, it's interesting, Chris. It's not that they have the most fighters, sort of from a particular country. It's this, as a percentage...

CUOMO: Right.

TOWNSEND: ... of their population which is very concerning. It's not clear why. Look, you know, we've seen lots of immigration, illegal immigration, frankly, into the European Union from North Africa. There have been sort of pockets in Germany, in Italy. But Belgium is a real country of interest now, and it's not clear why they've all -- they've all congregated there.

CUOMO: Christiane, final thought from you on what's next. What do we think here? Not in terms of where the next attack is. That would be absurd. But in terms of the trending of where we see cells and activity from which countries?

AMANPOUR: Well, I think all these countries that we've talked about remain really, really problematic. I mean, as I say, Andrew Parker, head of MI-5, suggested that even Britain is susceptible to what he called a mass casualty attack in the future and other countries in the west.

The security trend is to try to get this passenger name recognition, to try also to get more access to what Prime Minister Cameron has called for, the dark corners of the Internet.

So all of this, of course, does require a balancing of civilian and citizen privacy with the need for security. So it's also political. And plus, as you and Fran were talking about, why Belgium, why this and the other? There also has to be, by these countries, some kind of recognition that a lot of society is defunct, as well.

And that there is a lot of radicalization in jails and other such places. And that's something that governments are going to have to deal with, as well as the security issue.

CUOMO: Christiane Amanpour, Fran Townsend, thank you very much for the insight.

And remember, Alisyn, obviously, we're talking about something that's going on abroad, but the United States every bit as concerned about what's happening over in Europe, about what could be happening here.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. And something alarming going on here at home to tell you about, too. This morning, the FBI and the Secret Service are investigating a drive-by shooting near Vice President Biden's home in Delaware. Multiple gunshots fired from a speeding vehicle outside the Secret Service perimeter surrounding his property. Now, the Bidens were not inside at the time.

CNN's Michelle Kosinski is following the developments, live at the White House.

That must make them nervous, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, we're seeing security increase now outside the Bidens' home in Delaware. We're seeing the FBI, as well as the Secret Service and local law enforcement on this.

And we know that there were searches done outside the Bidens' home as well as other houses in the area. And police said that they found no evidence or damage from gunshots.

But what the Secret Service says was that Saturday night around 8:30 while the Bidens were out -- again, they were not home at the time -- a car drove up to the outside of the house, going fast. It didn't actually stop or slow down. Fired multiple shots and then sped away.

One of the agents even said that he had seen that car. A short time later, there were more gunshots reported in an area nearby.

But this happened outside of the security perimeter of the Bidens' home, so several hundred yards away, at least, from the residence. But that car was never found, so of course, the concern is there, and we're seeing the security stepped up now, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. So troubling. Thanks for the update, Michelle.

Let's go over to Michaela.

PEREIRA: We're learning more about the investigation into the Sony hack. By the time hackers broke into Sony Pictures' computer system, the NSA had already penetrated North Korea's secure computer network. According to "The New York Times," the spy agency implemented a top- secret program to track North Korean government hackers as far back as 2010. Now it's unclear whether the NSA had any advanced warning of the Sony pictures hack, but the White House blamed the breach based on North Korea, based on NSA data.

CUOMO: All right, it is Martin Luther King Day. I hope you know that. In less than an hour, a tribute to Martin Luther King will get underway. There will be a wreath laying ceremony taking place at the memorial in Washington, D.C. That's what we're showing you right now. It's getting just started, obviously. In about an hour, it will become a full ceremony there.

And that's not the only place. Cities like Boston and Memphis, they're going to have their own tributes. There are also protests expected against racism and police violence that will mark this occasion, as well. In the San Francisco Bay area, at least three people were reportedly detained in a largely peaceful, we're told, demonstration. Oprah Winfrey and her "Selma" co-stars marching in Alabama Sunday alongside hundreds of others.

CAMEROTA: Well, the Super Bowl XLIX matchup is set. And somehow the defending champion Seahawks found a way to get there. They were down by 12 points to the Packers with less than three minutes to go. And they scored a touchdown. They recovered an onside kick. And they scored again to actually take the lead before Green Bay then tied it up and sent the game into overtime.

Now in overtime, Russell Wilson threw a 35-yard touchdown pass to win it. Wow. That was a nail biter of a game.

No such drama for Tom Brady and the Patriots, who crushed the Colts, 45 to 7, in the ASC title game. So it will be the Seahawks-Patriots in Super Bowl XLIX February 1 in Arizona.

CUOMO: Russell Wilson, the young quarterback for the Seahawks...

PEREIRA: Yes.

CUOMO: ... crying after the game? He should have been.

If they hadn't won this game, he would have had so much stink on him. Because he played so poorly up until those last moments. But that's all that matters.

PEREIRA: He redeemed himself.

OK. So we still have time. February 1 is a little bit of time, because we've got to make our -- we have to draw the lines here on NEW DAY.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: I know who you're going to go with.

PEREIRA: You already know which way I'm going.

CUOMO: I know. Well, you're going to have to go with your boy Berman.

PEREIRA: Bite your tongue.

CUOMO: Oh! He's not going to like that.

PEREIRA: Too bad.

CUOMO: He's sitting home in his little Patriots jammies right now, with Tom Brady hat.

CAMEROTA: Do they have footsies? Do they have the feet on? I hope so.

CUOMO: There you are.

PEREIRA: All right, Berman, love your other wife (ph).

CAMEROTA: Let us know who you are rooting for.

Meanwhile, the brothers who carried out the deadly "Charlie Hebdo" attack in France have a dark past. We're going to take a closer look at how these terrorists became radicalized.

CUOMO: And an historic moment coming later this week, when the U.S. and Cuban governments will meet face-to-face for diplomatic talks. Remember how long it has been. What's going to be on the agenda? We will take you to Havana for the very latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: We want to take a closer look at the two brothers, Cherif and Said Kouachi, who pulled off the massacre at "Charlie Hebdo" and how they got on that path of radicalization.

CNN's terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank, joins us to look into their past.

Paul, thanks so much for being here.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's look at their timeline. OK? From what we can tell, it starts in 2004 when they met, one of the brothers met this person. Who's this?

CRUICKSHANK: He's a young charismatic preacher in the 19th Arrondissement of Paris. He's running a study circle. The brothers start attending this study circle. They're radicalized by the U.S. invasion of Iraq. And Cherif very, very quickly radicalized. They really want to travel there. And this guy, Benyettou, who's trying to persuade young French people to go and join al Qaeda in Iraq.

CAMEROTA: And Cherif wants to do that, and he wants to go and fight against U.S. soldiers. But he's intercepted by the police and goes to prison in 2005. What happens when he gets to jail?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, in jail, he meets this guy, Jamaal Begal, who's a senior al Qaeda officer. This is a guy who was recruited in bin Laden's house in Afghanistan for a plot to attack the American embassy in Paris. That plot was going to go into operation after 9/11, though the French thwart it. This guy is put in jail. And he meets with Cherif in jail; starts mentoring Cherif and actually introduces Cherif in jail to this guy, Amedy Coulibaly, who's in jail for some robberies. And that's how this circle gets to know each other.

CAMEROTA: And of course, Coulibaly shows up, then at the kosher grocery store in the massacres in Paris.

OK. 2010, they're arrested. What was this for?

CRUICKSHANK: They're all out of jail by this point, and they all get involved in a plot to free an Algerian terrorist from jail, a guy who'd been involved in a plot in 1995 to bomb the Paris metro. But the police are listening in, and they bust these guys. CAMEROTA: OK. And they go to jail or they don't?

CRUICKSHANK: Some of them go to jail. Cherif actually, there's a control order that's put on him, and his passport is confiscated.

CAMEROTA: OK. But then, even though that happened in 2011, we believe that one of them was able go to Yemen?

CRUICKSHANK: That's the extraordinary thing. Cherif had his passport confiscated. But what does he do? He borrows his brother, Said's passport so that he can travel to Yemen, and he travels via Oman (ph). And that's the period when the U.S. Intelligence agencies believe he met with this guy, Anwar al-Awlaki, a key recruiter for al Qaeda in Yemen, a terrorist mastermind on plots like the underwear plot. They believe that Cherif got training, that al-Awlaki probably recruited him into this plot at that time, 2011.

CAMEROTA: So when you say recruited him into this plot at that time, was the plot just attack anybody who says anything against the Prophet Mohammed, or was it go after "Charlie Hebdo"?

CRUICKSHANK: We don't know, and al Qaeda in Yemen are making it sound like there was a specific target. But it might have been a general sort of thing: go back, launch attacks in Europe. We know Awlaki was absolutely obsessed, though, by these cartoons.

CAMEROTA: OK. So somehow between 2011 and 2015, when, of course, the "Charlie Hebdo" attack happened, these brothers just lay in wait?

CRUICKSHANK: That's right. Well, when they returned, the French snap on surveillance, because the Americans tip them off that one or two of them have attended a training camp in Yemen. But the brothers wait this surveillance out. They pretend not to be radical. That was a exactly what al-Awlaki told these recruits when they came back to Europe: camouflage your radicalism. It's when the French take off the surveillance in June 2014 that they start moving forward towards this plot.

CAMEROTA: So in June 2014, the French backed off a little bit on the surveillance, thinking that things had settled down. Do we know today why a week and a half ago they went -- they did this plot on that day?

CRUICKSHANK: We don't know why it was specifically on that day. I mean, it might have been because there was that weekly editorial meeting. they might have had some intelligence about it, so they could kill the maximum number of editorial staff. But it appears that it was after the French stopped watching them closely that they're able to move forward with this plot.

CAMEROTA: So given this timeline, from 2004 to 2015, what's remarkable to you about the brother's past?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, it's a long trajectory, isn't it? My goodness, it's 11 years. But that's not entirely unusual, because these guys are true believers, and they have this deeply religious ingrained ideology, this world view, that the U.S., France, is at war with Islam. This guy, Cherif, believed that in 2004 and 2005. He believed he needs to fight back. He needs to be a soldier. They picked their time.

CAMEROTA: And is there anything that could have happened along this line to have intercepted? Once they were on that path in 2004 and met that radical imam, then even prison didn't stop them. In fact, it seems as though prison only sort of helped cultivate that feeling more?

CRUICKSHANK: Absolutely. I mean, prison was where they found some contacts. They came across this key al Qaeda figure, recruiter. And we're often seeing that in jails in Europe, where there's a lot of prison radicalization. People sometimes in jail not because they're radical, but for petty crime, coming across hardened al Qaeda terrorists and being recruited into the cause. Big, big problem in France. The French prime minister now talking about isolating some of these extremists in French jails to stop this problem from persisting.

CAMEROTA: That would be helpful.

Paul Cruickshank, thanks so much for looking into the timeline for us.

And keep it here tonight, because CNN will take an in-depth look at the battle against terrorism with two primetime special reports. At 9 p.m. Eastern, have "Inside the Paris Attacks" for you. And then at 9:30 Eastern, Chris and I will bring you "The War within Islam." That's an in-depth look at violent extremism and how to stop it -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn. So how about this story? The U.S. and Cuba are set to embark on a few future together. Both governments just days away from a face-to-face meeting. We will be live on the ground with the very latest.

PEREIRA: And President Obama is set to propose tax relief for the middle class. The price tag, though, is steep. The bigger question is, can he get this plan through a Republican-controlled Congress? We'll discuss that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to your NEW DAY. What is happening in Cuba is history, people. That's what it is. Now, will it be remembered as a good or bad shift, that's a separate question. But here's the deal for now.

For the first time in decades, literally since the '60s, an assistant secretary of state, Roberta Jacobson, is going to be dispatched by the president of the United States to commence diplomatic talks with Cuba. A small delegation of congressmen are already in Cuba ahead of this week's talks, but let's get right there to Cuba. CNN's Karl Penhaul following the historic developments.

Karl, it's great to have you there in Havana. What do you know?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris. Remember, it was Dwight Eisenhower in one of the last acts of his presidency who broke off diplomatic relations with Cuba back in 1961. Then, under JFK, don't forget relations between the two nations became so bad they threatened to push the entire world to the brink of nuclear war. That was the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Now, of course, President Barack Obama deciding the cold war is over, and that is why Jacobson is coming into town on a three-day visit this week. Her headline day is going to be Thursday. That's when she's going to be meeting Cuban counterparts. And her job: to discuss how to restore diplomatic ties after such a long time. These are likely to be baby steps at first. One of the first tasks at hand is probably simply how to open a U.S. embassy down here in Havana, discussing perhaps can we put more staff down here to do the job?

Then that will open the way in coming days and weeks to talk about trade and commerce. And we already know that the State Department is carrying out a review to see if it can remove Cuba from the list of state sponsors of terrorism.

Of course, there can be obstacles on this road, and that is because it is Congress who will decide if they are able at some stage to lift a half-century-old embargo against Cuba -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Ken [SIC]. We also know that there is a congressional delegation there. Senator Leahy of now Alan Gross fame, you know, getting that man home there, we remember the picture of him on the plane where he was watching NEW DAY, but that's not why we liked the picture. It was just great.

(LAUGHTER)

That's not why I liked it. But all of this politics winds up becoming about the people, the obvious human rights problems that go on in that country seemingly without any answer. How do the people feel there, Karl, about what this means? Do they think it'll be good for them?