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New Day

ISIS Demands that Jordan Release Terrorist; Near-Brawl Inside St. Louis City Hall Meeting; New England Digs Out from Blizzard; Israel Issues Stern Warning to Hezbollah

Aired January 29, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Time is ticking down for two hostages captured by ISIS.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not sure that Jordan can go ahead without an insurance that they're going to get their pilot back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will never give up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're holding the world hostage by doing this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Israel says Hezbollah terrorists will pay the full price.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is Hezbollah attack IDF, and Israel has the right to defend itself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, Mr. Chairman, how about some order here, huh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just saw a sham of a process in there at his very own hearing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just started going off on me, pushing me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two or three other anti-police radicals rushed over and it escalated (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I am Darren Wilson" is what it says.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is unfortunate that the city has the kinds of divisions that it currently has.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, January 29th, 6:00 a.m. in the east, almost.

There's a new recording, audio. It is purportedly from Japanese hostage Kenji Goto, and it says the Jordanian government has until sunset today -- that's about three and a half hours from now -- to bring a convicted female terrorist to the Turkish border. If not, the terrorists say they will kill the other hostage, a Jordanian pilot, being held captive since last month. The fate of Goto remains unclear.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Efforts to free both captives going on for days, and it's hard to know if there's been any progress. But the clock is ticking: Will the Jordanians comply with the terror group's demands in the next three and a half hours?

Let's begin our coverage with CNN's Will Ripley. He is live in Tokyo for us. What's the latest, Will?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that with this deadline fast approaching, if this latest ISIS propaganda video is legit -- and the Japanese government is telling us they don't have any reason to doubt its credibility -- then there is perhaps a very dramatic scene that could be unfolding away from all of the cameras along the border.

On one side, ISIS ready to hand over the Japanese journalist, Kenji Goto, and on the other side, Sajida al-Rishawi, that Iraqi prisoner that Jordan has been holding for a decade.

Jordan didn't want to hand over al-Rishawi without getting a guarantee that their captured pilot, Mu'ath al-Kaseasbeh, would also be turned over and allowed to live. But this new ISIS video says that the pilot will be killed if this deal does not happen within the coming hours.

Of course, ISIS very unpredictable. They're known for setting deadlines, moving them, changing them, breaking the rules, lying, so we don't know what's going to happen. But we do know that, and the feeling here in Japan is that, if this prisoner exchange is going to happen and one or both of these men is going to get out alive, it could very likely be now is the time, or in the coming hours we're going to watch very closely, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Will. We know you will keep us posted on all the breaking news.

Let's bring in Daveed Gartenstein-Ross. He's a senior fellow with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. And Haras Rafiq. He's the managing editor of the Quilliam Foundation. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us.

Haras, I want to start with you. What do you think of the Jordanians' plan to try to negotiate with ISIS and get these hostages freed?

HARAS RAFIQ, QUILLIAM FOUNDATION: I think there's a lot of pressure from within the tribes, within Jordan, to actually try and get their fellow member, tribal member actually released. So I think I can understand why a lot of pressure has been put on why Jordan feels that they need to do something.

But I think in a way, that Jordan really has allowed ISIL to win this particular propaganda war. The very fact that Jordan are negotiating for the release of their prisoners by actually giving into some demands, shows that there's some legitimacy in ISIL's demands and some legitimacy in ISIL as a -- as an Islamic state almost. And also tells the world that it's OK for them to kidnap hostages, because certain countries will negotiate with them.

I think it's a sad day that Jordan as a country and Japan are actually negotiating with a terrorist entity.

CAMEROTA: Daveed, we've heard this sentiment before, that somehow, even if you negotiate with ISIS, it elevates them; it elevates their position and their demands. But really, what choice does Jordan have?

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, SENIOR FELLOW, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: That's an excellent question. What I would say about Jordan's choice here is that note that ISIS hasn't said that they'd release Kaseasbeh. That's what Jordan said they wanted in exchange for letting al-Rishawi, the convicted terrorist, go.

But ISIS has simply said that they would free Kenji Goto. They said that Kaseasbeh, the pilot, would be killed. But they never promised to release him. So there's not an agreement.

In terms of negotiation and whether negotiation itself is a problem, it is; and even more problematic is the fact that you have a patchwork of some countries that negotiate with terrorist organizations who kill hostages, and some countries who don't.

A principled stance would be if no governments did so, then you wouldn't have these tens of millions flowing to terrorist organizations. Some do, some don't, and the countries that don't negotiate are the ones whose citizens disproportionately get killed, while the ones who do negotiate are making these organizations stronger, while they sometimes get to free their citizens.

CAMEROTA: But Daveed and Haras, I just want to push back on that and challenge you for a moment, because you're making it sound as though ISIS are rational actors.

Haras, they kidnap people because they're probably just cold-blooded opportunists. When they see someone that they can kidnap, they kidnap that person. And they don't think about the foreign policy. They kidnapped three U.S. citizens and killed them, even though we don't negotiate with hostages -- I mean, we don't negotiate with terrorists. So I mean, it seems as though we're giving them too much credit for their thinking process -- Haras.

RAFIQ: I think you're absolutely right in so much that they will kidnap people, irrespective of who they are; and then what they will do is utilize that particular captive to get the maximum P.R., propaganda or in some cases money or demands met.

And I think that we have to be very, very careful that we actually don't give them more credit. You're right.

However, we are in a situation that, by negotiating with them, as Daveed said, we're giving them some credibility; and unless all the coalition decides to stick together and take a collective stance, we're always going to see ISIL coming up on the media, coming up through the Internet and actually getting inches in media print and air time on -- like today.

But the other thing, we've got very, very -- one of the things we don't actually also know is that we don't actually even know if the Jordanian prisoner is actually alive. There have been some Twitter prominent ISIS supporters of the last few days that have actually been saying that he's been killed already. So I think there's a lot of confusion. I think that there's a lot of P.R. that ISIL are getting from this whole incident. And we've got to be very careful on how we handle it.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, look, you've raised a great point about whether or not we should be covering this in the media. It's hard not to cover when someone's life is at stake. Daveed, what is the answer?

GARTENSTEIN-ROSS: Well, I think that the media coverage of ISIS does, in fact, help ISIS, by and large. And here's the major thing I think media needs to think about. Obviously, covering something like this, it's hard not to do; and it's very much newsworthy.

But ISIS is a lot weaker than a lot of media reports let on. A good example is in Libya. There were multiple reports -- the BBC, for example, reported this -- that ISIS had actually taken over the city of Derna (ph), which is completely untrue. But they were able to sucker a number of stations, a number of major outlets into reporting this, because they were able to tweet out video of a parade of ISIS supporters, as well as a flag on a government building. That didn't actually prove that took over Derna (ph). It's become very clear since then that they have not.

But often we buy into their propaganda. And I think one thing that helps them is the perception that they're winning, which they've done a very good job of getting media to report.

I think what would be helpful for media is to contextualize, also, their loses and ways that ISIS is actually weak and losing. Because that will help to deflate their momentum, which they really do rely on.

CAMEROTA: Daveed, Haras, you've given us a lot to think about. We are having these conversations. It's great to talk to you about it, as well. Thanks so much.

Let's go over to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn. Breaking overnight, chaos erupting inside St. Louis City Hall last night. That melee breaking out during a packed meeting about a civilian review board to monitor police. Things turned ugly. Sara Sidner joins us now with the latest developments on that meeting -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, if there's ever any indication of just how high tensions remain in the St. Louis area between police and some members of the public, nearly six months now since the police shooting death of Michael Brown, what happened at city hall overnight gives you a good look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ROORDA, ST. LOUIS POLICE UNION BUSINESS MANAGER: First of all, you do not tell me my function.

SIDNER (voice-over): Chaos unfolding last night between citizens and police at a public meeting in St. Louis, Missouri. The meeting, over a bill intended to improve relations between the community and police. Yet the meeting achieved anything but.

One city police officer, Curtis Burgdorf, at the podium expressing his disapproval for the new bill to establish a civilian oversight board over police work. Seconds later, the room erupts into shouts, profanity and a shoving match.

Protesters blame police union business manager Jeff Roorda, who openly displayed an "I am Darren Wilson" wristband, igniting tensions. Then he and a woman ended up in a confrontation. It's unclear from the video who started it. Roorda says protestors shouted police down, and he stood up to object.

ROORDA: I tried to exit. She continued to do that. Two or three other anti-police radicals rushed over, and then things deescalated or escalated from there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't push a woman, though?

ROORDA: No.

SIDNER: Cachet Currie says she is no radical, but a citizen, and Roorda shoved her.

CACHET CURRIE, ST. LOUIS CITIZEN: I was actually just getting up to leave, and I guess Jeff Roorda and Terry Kennedy were having words, and Roorda just jumped out, pushed me over. He tried to get to Kennedy, I'm like wait a second, don't push me.

SIDNER: The sponsor of the bill, Alderman Antonio French, tweeted, "We saw once again tonight how fractured our city remains. We have a lot of work to do."

This just the last confrontation, following months of unrest in the wake of the death of Michael Brown and the acquittal of the Ferguson police officer, Darren Wilson, who shot him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: And the question remains: you know, if they can't even talk, if police, and the citizens and protesters can't even have a conversation about something like a bill, what can be achieved in the future -- Michaela.

PEREIRA: Yes. That's the big question. We're going to put some of those questions to Jeff Roorda. We're going to speak with him live here on NEW DAY. He is part of the St. Louis Police Officers Union involved in that melee last night. We'll get his take on what happened and where St. Louis and Ferguson go from here.

CUOMO: There's also breaking news this morning in the hunt for missing Malaysian Airlines Flight 370. Haven't forgot than one, have you?

Malaysian officials have declared the loss of the plane an accident and say all 239 passengers and crew on board are presumed dead. We are not exactly sure why the airlines is saying this or saying it now. There is still no evidence into what caused the crash. But officials do say the search will continue.

CAMEROTA: New this morning, President Obama taking on Republicans over those forced spending cuts, otherwise known as sequestration. The president planning to announce today that his budget will reverse those mandatory cuts and instead focus on making middle-class paychecks go further and beefing up defense funding. The cuts had been in the budget since 2014, but Pentagon warns they threaten the nation's military preparedness.

PEREIRA: The number of measles cases in California has grown now to 79. Fifty-two of those cases are linked to the outbreak at Disneyland. A high school in Palm Springs now is telling nearly 70 non-vaccinated kids to stay home, because they're worried that another student may have contracted the virus and could cause it to spread among those kids that are not vaccinated. In Arizona officials are monitoring 1,000 people who may have been exposed to the measles outbreak.

Crazy to think that it was essentially eliminated.

CUOMO: Yes. Why was it eliminated? Because of the vaccine. I vaccine -- I vaccinate my kids. Do you vaccinate the kids?

CAMEROTA: I do. But I believe that it is a complicated discussion, because there are occasional vaccine injuries that happen which give parents pause, and it should give parents pause.

PEREIRA: Occasional.

CAMEROTA: Occasional, of course. But those do give parents pause. They want to be as educated as possible. And sometimes even kids who are vaccinated come down with the sickness, measles or something else. So you need booster shots. Sometimes the vaccines don't work. It's more complicated than we sometimes realize.

PEREIRA: We might even need booster shots. We would have gotten them as children.

CUOMO; It may be complicated. But the analysis of whether or not the vaccines improve your chances of healthfulness are not complicated. We've had Sanjay on a couple times about this. You can't get science to align with the idea of maybe you don't need vaccines.

CAMEROTA: No. Vaccines have changed our world. Vaccines have saved lives. Vaccines in general are a good thing. But you can't just -- I understand why parents don't just want to take it. They want to be more educated. They want a little bit more information about all that.

PEREIRA: But it's important to get factual information and be well- educated. Because there's a lot of false information.

CAMEROTA: Indeed. All true. We'd love to hear your thoughts on that. you can find us all on Twitter.

CUOMO: We'll start on this: Vaccinate your kids. Discuss.

All right. So the blizzard has passed. But the situation is far from over. There's still three feet of snow on the ground in some places. You've got thousands without power. There are big challenges to getting back to normal. And if there weren't enough trouble already, more is coming. Not one, but two storms on the way.

CNN meteorologist Jennifer Gray has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're clearing a path.

JENNIFER GRAY, CNN METEOROLOGIST: This morning, millions of New England residents buried by an historic blizzard...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is -- this is brutal.

GRAY: ... picked up a shovel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This blizzard is one of the largest we've ever seen. That's going to take some time to remove that snow.

GRAY: From Long Island to Maine, residents up to their waist, some up to their neck in snow. Some parts of Massachusetts receiving a record-breaking three feet of snowfall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The bedding has icicles on it.

GRAY: In Marshfield, the south of Boston, residents returned to their coastline homes, destroyed during the violent winds and high tide.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's surreal. I can't believe this. We had Christmas in here.

GRAY: A 50-foot section of the seawall washed away. Officials fear it could happen again.

KARYN POLITO, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: The storm came in, you know, very powerful one. The next one could be even stronger. So we've got to figure out what the right solution is.

GRAY: Meanwhile, the disastrous clean-up effort continues to band the community together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're very capable young men if you need our help.

GRAY: In New Hampshire firefighters and Cub Scouts go door to door... UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I tried to shovel, but I've got a walker.

GRAY: ...clearing driveways for the elderly.

CHRISTIAN WALKER, NEW HAMPSHIRE CUB SCOUT: Please, we're just helping the community and the elders, since they couldn't shovel their driveways.

GRAY: And in Boston, where snow surpassed two feet...

CHRIS LAUDANI (PH), LOCAL BOSTON BARTENDER: There was still snow in the streets. You couldn't see the lines in the road.

GRAY: One local bartender trekked several blocks during the snowstorm to clear the permanent finish line for the annual Boston Marathon, a symbolic act proving Bostonians will once again persevere.

LAUDANI: It's very special to me and the city. I didn't think it deserved to be covered under, you know, all that snow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: That is symbolic: Boston strong.

CUOMO: That is Boston strong in action. They are tough people.

PEREIRA: They're tough people all over New England. I was impressed by their resilience.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: You know, Boston has a lot happen to it. Not the biggest place. Not even a million people there in Boston, but they come together, they're like ten times that strength.

PEREIRA: They're great.

CAMEROTA: All right. Well, one of our top stories, Israel sending a warning to Hezbollah after an attack by a militant group left two Israeli soldiers dead. Could this new round of violence lead to full- scale war? A spokesman for Israel's military joins us live.

CUOMO: Plus, did you know that there have been more than 50 online threats against flights since mid-January? Planes have been diverted, passengers evacuated? We're going to tell you what's going on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Israel issuing a stern warning to Hezbollah, vowing the militants will, quote, "pay the full price" for an attack that left two Israeli soldiers dead. This latest round of fighting raising fears of an escalation to another all-out war.

Let's get to CNN's Atika Shubert. She is live on the Israel/Lebanon border. What's happening, Atika? ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this certainly the worst tick of violence we've said since 2006. But having said that, it's more than 24 hours after the incident, and all is quiet. We can still hear the whine of drones in the sky keeping a watch over the border. That's Lebanon, just over that hill right over there. But so far, as I said, it has not escalated. Remember that.

And many people believe that this was in retaliation for an Israeli strike on a Hezbollah target a few weeks ago. Killing six peek, including an Iranian general and the son of a Hezbollah commander. In response, it seems that Hezbollah carried out this rocket attack on an Israeli military vehicle, killing two Israeli soldiers.

But it happened in the Shebaa Farms area, which is just a few kilometers from here, and that area is a disputed area right between Lebanon and Israel. The fact that it was in specifically that area, may indicate that Hezbollah did not want to expand this any further into, for example, the Golan Heights area.

And so as a result now, the feeling is things seem to be coming down. In fact, Israel's defense minister, Moshe Ya'alon, said that they're getting indications from the U.N. peace-keepers that Hezbollah does not want to escalate this any further.

CUOMO: All right. Atika, thank you very much.

Let's bring in the spokesman for the Israeli Defense Forces, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Lerner.

Colonel, thank you for joining us. What can you tell us about the latest on the situation on the border and what Israel has done in response to these attacks so far?

LT. COL. PETER LERNER, SPOKESMAN, ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES: Well, good morning, I can say happily that this morning seems to be maintaining a sense of calm, I would say, it's tense, but calm nevertheless, we are currently maintaining defensive positions along the border. We have enough forces to do so.

I think the key about everything that has happened over the last 24 hours, and indeed this attack against our troops and on the civilian unmarked vehicles, on a civilian road where people travel freely. They could have actually hit anybody traveling that road, but unfortunately, they only hit -- or fortunately, they only hit military vehicles, and we've just completed one funeral. And we have a second funeral today.

So looking forward, I would perhaps point out our need to be responsible, rational and level-headed in order to maintain and I would say prolong this situation.

CUOMO: Colonel, let's take a quick look forward and then a look back. Looking forward, is it true that Israeli has heard from Hezbollah, and the message is that they do not wish for any more escalation?

LERNER: Well, we have open channels, of course, with UNIFIL, and we've been discussing with them throughout the last 24 hours the circumstances and developments. And we have worked together with them, and we are working together with them to maintain and restore security and stability in the region.

We did not want yesterday's attack to happen. But we need to be prepared for any potential development that could actually happen, yes.

CUOMO: All right. So there is some promise that there won't be further escalation based on that communication. That's good news to have.

Looking back as to why this happened and what the provocations are on both sides, let's listen to what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said about his willingness to retaliate for the bombing and how he contextualized it. Let's take a look, all right?

"I suggest that all those who are challenging us on our northern border look at what happened in Gaza. Hamas suffered the most serious blow since it was founded this past summer, and the IDF is prepared to act on every front."

That's obviously referring to July of last year. Israel bombed the Gaza Strip after the abduction of three teens in the West Bank. We all remember that, of course. It does seem like an aggressive, provocative statement that we're going to come after you for what you did. Does that help not to escalate? Why is that the necessary response?

LERNER: Well, here's the reality that is developing over recent years, and specifically, if you look just look at the last year, what's happened in Syria with ISIS and al Qaeda-affiliated organizations on our border, immediately looking towards us.

And just recently, just two days ago, we had two rockets that were launched from the Syrian Golan Heights, at our skiing resort, Mount Hebron (ph), where we had to evacuate 1,000 people. So the reality of instability on our border, which is a constant threat against the people of Israel, is of key concern to us. And that is why we need to be prepared. We need to be able to act. We need to operate.

I heard yesterday the State Department spokesperson, Jen Psaki, acknowledge Israel's right to self-defense, and that is indeed what we are doing here.

CUOMO: Right.

LERNER: You have to prevent these people like ISIS, like al Qaeda, Hezbollah backed by Iran from establishing another front with us on the Syrian Golan Heights.

CUOMO: But, you know, Jen Psaki wound up opening her own can of worms about the hypocrisy of the United States, in terms of negotiating with terrorists. That's a story for a different segment of the show.

But how it relates here is that Hezbollah says that last week, Israel launched an attack against a convoy, killed an Iranian Revolutionary Guard leader, six Hezbollah members, and that they did what they did in retaliation for what you did. So is that fair in this situation? Is the situation that Israel precipitated by its attack?

LERNER: So here's what we know. Hezbollah, a terrorist organization armed to the teeth by its Iranian patron, with hundreds of thousands of rockets all for one purpose: to attack Israel. They are intending and trying, together under the guidance and instruction of this Iranian patron, to position themselves in another front against Israel on our concern. We need to be able to safeguard the people of Israel. It's our right. It's our responsibility. And the IDF is charged with that task.

The reality that has developed since then and everything we've been doing since then is to contain the violence. We need to maintain our defensive capabilities in order to prevent a negative further escalation.

CUOMO: Colonel Lerner, thank you very much for the latest. We'll check back with you if the situation develops further. Appreciate it.

Michaela, over to you.

PEREIRA: All right, Chris. Let's get some context with Peter Beinart. He's here to explain the disputed Golan Heights territories. A CNN political commentator and a contributing editor to Atlantic Media and a senior fellow at the New America Foundation.

This area here is a disputed area. Very little agreement on the borders at all.

PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. The Golan Heights was taken by Israel in the 1967 war. Israel controls it. But Syria claims that it's still rightfully theirs, and the international community has not accepted Israel's control of it.

PEREIRA: Bordered by so many nations here and obviously a key location.

BEINART: right, because it's very high ground. So whoever controls it has an advantage over the people below. That's one of the reasons that Israel has been reluctant to relinquish it.

PEREIRA: Now the soldiers that were killed were killed up here near the border with Lebanon, is Shebaa Farms, correct?

BEINART: Right. So this is another area a little bit north of the Golan Heights. Israel also controls it. What makes this area different is that it's both claimed by both Lebanon and by Syria. So this is actually a three-way dispute about who controls this territory.

PEREIRA: Here's the question, though. With all of the dispute and for years, this is not a new situation about the borders being disputed. Why now this conflict? Why now is this heating up? BEINART: I think it's because a couple of weeks ago Israel took a

shot at a Hezbollah convoy that it claims was planning a terrorist attack. Israel tends to take the preemptive actions against what they think are terrorist attacks that are coming. They ended up killing some fairly high-ranking people, including the son of the former Hezbollah military leader.

At that point it really became pretty inevitable that Hezbollah would respond. They did respond. But the fact that they responded against an Israeli military convoy and not civilians has led some to believe that Hezbollah doesn't actually want this to turn into a full-scale war.

PEREIRA: So what is the chance. Do you think this is going to be settling in for a long-term fight or no?

BEINART: Well, the Israel defense minister said today that they had gotten an indirect communication from Hezbollah, that Hezbollah does not want an escalation. So right now it seems like there's a chance of averting this from becoming a full-blown conflict.

PEREIRA: All right. We'll watch it with you, Peter Beinart. Thank you so much -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Mick. An important situation. We will stay on it. You're right. So when we come back after the break, you have more than 50 threats online against commercial aircraft in less than two weeks. Passengers have been forced to evacuate. The airlines are taking them very -- they're taking them very seriously. The question is why? What's behind the trend? We'll tell you.

CAMEROTA: And the Aaron Hernandez trial gets under way this morning. Three days before his former team plays in the Super Bowl. So forget deflate-gate. Will Patriots coach Bill Belichick and team owner Bob Kraft be called to testify in a murder trial?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)