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Kurdish Forces Regain Control Over ISIS in Iraq; White House Holding Counterterrorism Summit; What ISIS Really Wants; Ukrainian Forces Pulling Out of Key Town; Another Polar Plunge Coming; Huckabee Tops GOP 2016 Poll

Aired February 18, 2015 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ISIS fighters launching a major attack in northern Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Peshmerga troops have succeeded in pushing ISIS forces back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ISIS is, even under pressure, it's still a very resilient organization.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not going to win this war unless we identify the enemy.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I disagree with the Texas judge's ruling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This immigration matter is about presidential power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president says he's not conceding defeat on this issue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He filmed himself walking in Paris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kind of like felt like a walking target.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a new Europe. Described as a clash of civilizations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY, with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to your NEW DAY; it is Wednesday, February 18th, just about 6:00 in the East.

Breaking news out of Iraq this morning, ISIS fighters got so close do a major city in northern Iraq, Kurdish commanders say they couldn't launch air strikes. The good news is, though, that Kurdish forces repelled the new wave of attacks. The threat, though, very clear. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The assault from ISIS targeting Kurdish

villages, several Kurds reportedly killed, as well as many ISIS fighters. Let's get right to CNN's Ian Lee. He is live in Cairo for the very latest. What happened, Ian?

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, last night we saw a large-scale offensive by ISIS militants along this line of Peshmerga fighters that is on the Zab River. There were simultaneous attacks on several villages along that line. The fighting was so intense, there with a such close quarters that airstrikes could not target these ISIS militants without endangering the Peshmerga fighters, as well.

This battle lasted for roughly five hours. The two sides started to separate a bit, and that's when we saw airstrikes resume again. But this is a very long front, about roughly six -- over 600 miles. The Peshmerga are spread thin along this line. It's also very close to the northern Iraqi city of Erbil, a Kurdish city.

If the Peshmerga -- the ISIS militants would have broken through this line, they would have had a clear shot to going toward the city. Although the Peshmerga would have not allowed ISIS militants to capture that city.

But this comes as ISIS is trying to relieve pressure on Mosul. Peshmerga are strangling it on three different fronts. ISIS is probing their lines, looking for weaknesses to exploit.

And really to show you how, how intense this fighting was, we know that 40 ISIS fighters were killed in it. And several Peshmerga fighters were killed, as well. Although the Peshmerga have been fairly vague in the number of fatalities they had.

But what is most surprising is how it shaped up with their weapons. You have the Peshmerga, who are using small arms. They do not have heavy artillery. And then you have the ISIS fighters who have American equipment. They're going against them -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thanks for spelling all of that out this morning for us, Ian Lee. We'll check back in with you.

There's also new information this morning about the suspected gunman in the deadly shootings in Copenhagen, and there's emerging evidence that the Paris terror attacks last month were coordinated.

CNN's Nic Robertson following developments on both of those stories. We will get to him as soon as we can. He will be up for us in Copenhagen shortly.

CUOMO: So we see the problem everywhere. The question is what to do about it, and today brings day two of the White House summit on violent extremism. Day one got hung up on the basics: what to call the enemy and even whether there is a war going on?

CNN White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski joins us with the latest. Do we have that right? MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right,

Chris. And today we will hear from the president on this, on this question of how do you prevent the kind of violent extremism that we've seen in Europe lately. And they, by the way, call themselves Islamic, but the White House still isn't even using that word. They say they want to draw from international experience of fighting extremism of all kinds. And they say that those kinds of attackers are not in fact Islamic, but are simply terrorists.

So this summit today wants to look at community-based pilot programs in three different cities: L.A., Boston and Minneapolis. But they've only been in existence for about a year. So it will be interesting during the public sections of this summit to hear whether there are any concrete examples of these programs actually working, actually doing something. They're going to be looking at what works and what doesn't.

It was also interesting in a completely different setting to hear the attorney general, Eric Holder, tell reporters that the country is not at a time of war. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: We're not in a time of war, and I said this is an extreme example.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: OK, so he was making a comparison to World War II, when there was a formal declaration of war. But this raised some eyebrows, especially since the administration did agree a few months ago that yes, the U.S. is currently at war against ISIS -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Michelle, thank you very much.

Alisyn, over to you.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. Developing overnight, CBS News obtaining a photo of the rarely-seen leader of ISIS, al-Baghdadi. Here he is. It's the closest, most defined, well-defined photo that we have seen yet of him. This as a huge new in-depth cover story in the "Atlantic" explains in great detail what motivates ISIS and exactly how they accomplish that barbaric goals.

Let's bring in the author of that piece, Graeme Wood. He's a contributing editor for "The Atlantic."

Graeme, thanks for being here.

GRAEME WOOD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC": Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: This is such a comprehensive and compelling piece. I think it's 38 pages long, and it describes ISIS in a way that, certainly, I have never read before. How did you get all this information on ISIS? WOOD: I asked. That's really all it takes. There are questions you

can ask ISIS and its supporters that it will not answer, such as where is your next attack going to be, but if you ask them about Islam, about what they believe, they believe it's their sacred duty to tell you.

CAMEROTA: OK. Let's start with some of the categories that you defense into. One of them is their doctrine. Fascinating. You write -- let me read it for you -- "The reality is, is that the Islamic state is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe, but the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent, even learned interpretations of Islam."

That's fascinating, Graeme, because where is it in the Koran to burn someone alive in a cage? It seems that their tactics are not from the Koran.

WOOD: Yes, there's a very good argument to be made, and it should be made among Muslims about whether their interpretations are correct.

But the question of whether they emerge from the traditions of Islam -- that is from the texts of Muslims and the practices of people who have called themselves Muslims over the last 1,300 years -- is really not open to doubt. The way that they speak to each other, the way that they justify what they do, it all emerges from discussion within traditions of Islam about what is proper to do.

Now, the burning of the Jordanian pilot, this is a really exceptional act, and it was one of the things that they had to reach particularly far and many would say into very tendentious reasoning to justify. But when they did that, they certainly did go into the history of early Islam and into their interpretations of Islam to come up with that.

CAMEROTA: So what basis do they have? What basis are they using that you burn a nonbeliever? Where -- how far back do you go where you find that this could even be justified?

WOOD: Well, if you watch the video itself, which I don't recommend, you will see that in the moment of the man's being burned alive, there's actually a freeze-frame, and a quote comes up from Ibn Taymiyyah, and it essentially says that you can do mutilation, which is usually completely unacceptable, within the norms of war in Islam, if by doing that you're calling others to -- to Islam or if, by doing that, you are causing -- causing attackers to cease attacking.

So they go directly into early scholarship of Islam. And actually, in the last issue of their magazine, called Dabiq, they have a very long discussion of whether you can do something like burning a man alive, which is as I say, normally strictly prohibited within Islam, if it is an act of retribution for burning alive. That is, can you have tit- for-tat? They say yes, you can.

CAMEROTA: You also looked at their recruiting methods, which have been wildly successful thus far. How do they do it?

WOOD: Well, I spoke to recruiters who are outside the Islamic State. There is this class of people who have lost their passports. They have been confiscated by the British and Australian governments, because they're suspected of bringing people in from the outside. And what their role is, is to teach people, to teach people the doctrine of the Islamic State and to call them to Islam in the form that the Islamic State preaches it.

And these people, they have YouTube channels. They have Facebook pages. They have very active Twitter accounts. All of these things are existing to tell people what they believe Islam is and, eventually, to call them to an obligation to move to the Islamic State.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the apocalypse. You have on earth how important the apocalypse is to their ideology. You write, "Much of what the group does looks nonsensical, except in light of a sincere, carefully considered commitment to returning civilization to a 7th Century legal environment and ultimately to bringing about the apocalypse."

What does that mean?

WOOD: Well, if we -- again, if we look at their propaganda, if we look at their videos, it is laced with references to the apocalypse. It's completely filled with rhetoric and allusion to apocalyptic -- apocalyptic literature within Islam.

CAMEROTA: And what does that mean? That there will be an annihilation on earth and then everyone meets their maker? I mean, is that what they're talking about?

WOOD: It's actually a very specific thing. So they believe that there will be a meeting between the armies of what they call Rome, which is widely believed to just mean crusaders or western armies and the armies of Islam. And they believe that will happen in a particular city in Syria called Dabiq.

And after that, after the victory of the armies of Islam there, they will continue to conquer, until eventually there's a showdown in Jerusalem. And then at that point Jesus, who is regarded as a prophet within Islam, will return, will lead the armies of Islam to victory. And after that, there is a very specific choreography that happens that could last thousands of years. But it's part of what, of what ISIS believes it is bringing about by its actions now.

CAMEROTA: So in the meantime before the apocalypse, they're interested in this caliphate. What did you learn about that, in terms of their geographics, what they're looking for geographically?

WOOD: So their view of what a caliphate is, is a piece of territory in which a caliph can apply Islamic law. And a caliph is a person who fulfills particular criteria.

CAMEROTA: Al-Baghdadi is their caliph, yes? WOOD: They believe that he perfectly fulfills these criteria. That

is: he is a Muslim man. He is from the tribe of Quraysh, which is the tribe of the prophet; and he's fulfilling Islamic law. They believe that if you're -- if you fulfill these criteria, then it's incumbent on Muslims to give allegiance to him.

CAMEROTA: Where -- what's your takeaway from this? I mean, after spending so much time researching ISIS, are they a force to be incredibly feared or are they a rag-tag band of vandals that we -- that the coalition will extinguish somehow?

WOOD: I don't know if they'll be extinguished. I think it would be very difficult to do that. What they are is a group with an ideology. They're a group that can be understood and can be studied. And it matters what they actually think, because this is the mode of their propaganda. It's how they attract people. And it's what they value.

So the most thing -- most important thing, I would say, from this investigation is that we can study them. We can know our enemy. And our enemy is actually very eager to tell us about itself.

CAMEROTA: Well, you have do that incredibly well in such a compelling way. Everyone can read it in "The Atlantic" this month. Graeme Wood, thanks so much for coming on.

WOOD: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Chris.

CUOMO: Breaking news in eastern Ukraine. There's supposed to be a ceasefire in effect. But word now that some pro-government forces are pulling out of a strategic city after clashes with rebels. CNN senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh joins us on the phone with the very latest.

Nick, what do we know?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Chris, we are hearing now from the Ukrainian government, the admission that they have withdrawn 18 percent of their troops from the strategic city of Debaltseve in an orderly fashion.

Now that comes after yesterday. That's after making it clear that they had a substantial hold on that town.

Why has this happened? Well, this was going to be the key flash-point town for violence here, both sides sought it as a symbol of their military prowess. Clearly, the separatists have prevailed in this, and we are seeing (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at times and often quite bedraggled-looking Ukrainian forces coming out.

It matters because this is happening on day four of a ceasefire. It doesn't feel like a ceasefire when we hear the shelling and the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is still here to the east where we stand -- to the west of where we stand in Debaltseve. The question now is what happens next? Does this demarcate the final

borders of separatist-held territory here? Or, as some of fighters I speak to on the separatist side, do they continue to take more territory? It's clear diplomacy hasn't stopped the exchange (ph) in who controls what territory here. The question is, does this (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that we saw signed over the weekend slow down the violence or are we going to, after Debaltseve falls, see yet another escalation?

Back to you.

CAMEROTA: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you for scrambling your report for us. Stay safe. We'll check back in.

Eleven point four million, that's how many Americans have signed up for private health insurance in 2015 through Obamacare exchanges. The White House says the number beat their own projections for the year. While the open enrollment period officially ended Sunday, People who had trouble because of technical glitches or long wait times now have until February 22 to sign up.

CUOMO: Remember the civil rights probe into the shooting death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri? Well, we are told it is reportedly winding down. Attorney General Eric Holder says the results of the investigation, as well as a broader investigation into the Ferguson Police Department itself will be revealed before he steps down. Now, that is expected in just the next few weeks.

CAMEROTA: New developments this morning in an apparent road rage case that ended in murder. Investigators now say Tammy Meyers went looking for the man who had confronted her. Meyers was gunned down in front of her home last week. Police say Meyers returned home from the initial confrontation, picked up her son, who had a gun and went looking for the driver. The manhunt for the suspect who killed Myers has not yet -- the man, I should say, that police are looking for has not yet been apprehended or identified.

CUOMO: A little confusing but very...

CAMEROTA: Terrible.

CUOMO: Well, obviously, because of the end. But also, it's like how these situations build on themselves, right? He did something to her that seemed wrong. She went back home. Her son had a gun. Now you have two people who are angry, you know, son very motivated to help the mother. They go back out.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: She winds up dead.

CAMEROTA: Look, I mean, road rage incidents are real. Everybody has experienced it, at least mildly. You have to figure out a way to deescalate that.

CUOMO: Usually assume they're spontaneous, though. Like, "I'm mad at you for what you just did," and it happens here, and we move on. Not always. Not always.

We'll stay on that story for you.

Another story that we have to stay on, because it's all around us, is the dangerous cold in the northeast. Take a look at this. It led to a frantic rescue in New Jersey. What we're looking at here, a 14- year-old trapped on the frozen waters of this bay, climbed onto a pipe, slipped off. Luckily rescued, treated for hypothermia. Horrible situation.

As multiple deaths have been blamed on this deep freeze, that's why you worry about kids or anybody in this situation.

Let's get to meteorologist Chad Myers. It's not just about the numbers, Chad. These conditions cause problems on the roads, for our homes and pipes, and obviously, personal safety.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You've met a lot of black ice on the roadway today, even in Atlanta. Down to 23. I was driving, and I'm looking at it all over the place, going, "Wow," you know. You want to go straight right over the top of it. You start turning or something like that, there's black ice everywhere. Look at the wind chill factors from Chicago back to Minneapolis. Cold air here. It's cold in New York. Feels like 19, feels like 10 in Washington, D.C., but it feels cold all the way down to Orlando. I mean, this cold front is all the way down into Florida. And it's not changing.

This is the next three days. Here's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and there's Friday of next week. And the cold is in the East, and it doesn't go away. Now it warms up slightly in New York City for Saturday into Sunday.

But there's also a chance of some ice coming in on Sunday night. Buffalo, you'd never get above 10 for the next three days. And look at the lows: New York City, down to 4. Boston, 4. New York City on Saturday, 9 and then the warm-up on Sunday to 27. Talking about the cold air in the Midwest. Chicago, it just feels unbearable out there. And all the way down to the deep south, Orlando, tomorrow morning all the way down to 34. For Friday morning, 30. They'll be covering up all the plants. Look at Atlanta. We don't get that cold here, 14 degrees. There will be record lows set all across the country on Friday morning.

Guys, back to you.

CUOMO: My feelings that it's wrong to blame Chad for the weather...

CAMEROTA: Are over?

CUOMO: They're wavering, because I find it more convenient to focus my anger on a person.

CAMEROTA: I understand. And there's Chad.

MYERS: It's weather rage.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: That's it (ph).

CAMEROTA: Chad, thank you so much.

All right, a federal judge halting the president's executive action on immigration. But President Obama says he's ready for a legal fight. So which side will prevail?

CUOMO: And boy, this is a provocative question. Anti-Semitism, is it on the rise in France? This man you're looking at, he put it to the test. We'll show you what he did and, even worse, the results on the video.

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CUOMO: Big news in politics, big news in immigration. A Texas judge says, "Not so fast" to President Obama when it comes to immigration reform. The president wanted some reforms that were supposed to take effect today. This judge has said no. They are now on hold.

CAMEROTA: This as new poll numbers show a shift for Republicans in the 2016 presidential hunt.

Here to break down all these figures and subjects for us, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Paul Begala and Republican strategist and CNN political commentator, Kevin Madden. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Kevin, let's start with what this federal judge is saying about the president's executive action on immigration. Is this a -- how big a setback is this for President Obama do you think?

MADDEN: Well, I think it's a setback for the issue of immigration, mostly. It is an affirmation by -- for many Republicans of what they've always argued and what President Obama before making the executive action argued, as well, which is that he does not have the authority to take this action.

So I think legislatively, this puts us in the place of we're back right where we started.

I think as a Republican, one of my big worries is that, while this is -- maybe come as welcome news for many folks up on Capitol Hill who are fighting with the president on this, I do worry that this is one of those issues now that we continue to define ourselves by what we're against, instead of what we're for.

And as we head into 2016, we have to do a better job of defining ourselves by what we're for, what a modernized immigration system would look like and how it would serve our economy and serve our national security interests.

CUOMO: Kevin, why isn't this ruling making the Republicans back off on the threats to close down parts of homeland security?

MADDEN: Well, that's a -- that's a much larger fight that's taking place up on Capitol Hill.

MADDEN: There's a lot more texture to it, but...

CUOMO: It goes specifically to your point about tactic.

MADDEN: I think this ruling will actually -- actually help broker a deal. Now that-- now that many folks up on Capitol Hill see that the issue is actually not going to go forward as the president planned, and instead, they have to come back to the bargaining table and figure out how they're going to fund DHS.

CAMEROTA: Paul, let me show you a new poll, a new CNN poll that shows how the American public thinks the president is handling illegal immigration. Forty percent approve of the way President Obama is handling it; 59 percent disapprove. What do you make of that?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's entirely consistent, first of all, with what Kevin said, I hate to admit, but with where our CNN poll was in November.

Here's the thing. In the main, people support the president's position, which is we should set priorities in deporting people. We should focus our attention on deporting gang-bangers and not grandmothers. But they don't like him doing it by executive order. I don't think they want the courts in the middle of it either. They want Congress to fix this problem.

And so I think the president is doing all he can with the power that he has. He'll win this court case. I mean, I'm not -- I would never hire me as...

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: How do you know he's going to win the court case? How do you know that? How do you know he's going to win the court case?

BEGALA: Because, Mr. Fordham Law, I went to the University of Texas School of Law. Because it's clear -- seriously, he's got precedent. Five presidents have done this.

All he's doing, he is supposed to faithfully execute the law. As executing the law he's saying, "I'm telling my law-enforcement people to make these priorities. Focus on people who are a real threat, not on people who are no threat." Beyond that, this is immigration. The states are not supposed to have a role in immigration. That's a uniquely federal thing.

Anyway, he's going to win the case. But the problem is, even if he wins the case, people don't want the president to act unilaterally. They want the Congress to fix this permanently. And I think they're right about that, frankly.

CUOMO: It's about the how, not just the what. You know the tactics. Gentlemen, let's look at the Republican field for 2016. CNN has a new poll in terms of who leads. Interesting, Kevin, here, Mike Huckabee is at the top of this poll with 16 percent. Jeb Bush has dropped to second at 14 percent. Then you see Scott Walker, followed by Rand Paul. Ben Carson, Chris Christie after that. What do you think of Mike Huckabee being the leader?

MADDEN: Well, look, he's at the top of a poll where -- that has a bunch of people all jumbled together. I think the poll overall says that the Republican race right now is wide open. It really is anybody's game.

These national polls mean a lot less to me if I'm working on one of these campaigns than some of the state polls. And but, you know, Mike Huckabee, he's very well-known by Republican voters nationwide. He's very well-liked. But he's also very well-liked and well-known in the critical early state of Iowa. So he's going to have an opportunity to really shape this race early on.

CUOMO: Let's -- Paul, let's just put up some of these Democrat numbers here. Which candidate represents the future? If they can't get them up, I'll read them to you.

Clinton, she gives you your 50 percent right there, but Warren and Christie, 46 and 43 percent. Do you think that -- I don't know what that poll is. But the -- in terms of who represents the future, Paul, do you think that's a little bit of a sticking point for Hillary, that yes, she'd be the first woman? That is huge, can't underestimate it. But been around a long time. People like change I remember hearing from you guys.

BEGALA: And yet, more than anyone else we tested, more than anybody, more than Marco Rubio, who I think was, like, in diapers when Hillary became first lady. Hillary is seen as the future. I think that's what's astonishing.

She's been one of the most famous women in the world for over 20 years and yet, the majority of voters, the only candidate in either party, who the majority of the voters say, "Well that's the future there." And I think you're right. It's because she would be the first one. I know this, not because of law school, because I had the placemat of all the presidents. My kids, it's like white guy, white guy, white guy. There's Obama, and no women.

CUOMO: I didn't know there were placemats.

BEGALA: My old friend Karl Rove was on this attack on Hillary, calling her old and stale. And somewhere Karl is crying in his coffee this morning, because that thing has really failed.

CAMEROTA: If only we had the placemat in our preparation for the presidential quiz show. That I don't know if you gentlemen saw but...

BEGALA: That's what you need.

CAMEROTA: ... I was one of the victors, just mentioning for sake of accuracy.

BEGALA: Very impressive, Alisyn. Very impressive.

CAMEROTA: Thank you, thank you. I really had to carry Jake Tapper.

MADDEN: That was great, Alisyn. Congratulations.

CAMEROTA: It was a little embarrassing. Chris is still smarting from this.

CUOMO: It was one of the worst experiences of my life. I don't know how else to put it, Kev.

BEGALA: Well, maybe they have a bib, too. Maybe they have a bib, Chris.

MADDEN: I had my money on John Berman. You know?

CAMEROTA: They had a strong showing.

CUOMO: They were hard to show -- the two guys, they're both so smart. But they -- I thought it was going to be about was this person president. I was going to be like you know, was Grover Cleveland president?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

CUOMO: Who knew?

CAMEROTA: Paul Begala, Kevin Madden, thanks so much. Nice to see you guys.

MADDEN: Great to be with you.

CAMEROTA: Well, nearly a year after Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 disappeared, how many pieces of the plane have been recovered? We'll take you inside the search.

CUOMO: All right. We've had a major event in the "American Sniper" murder trial. The prosecution has rested its case. Was that surprisingly quick? Was it convincing? Now a big piece of evidence that you're seeing right in front of you: the jury got to hear Eddie Ray Routh's questioning of his own sanity. What did he say? How will it play? We'll tell you ahead.

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