Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

ISIS Attacks Peshmerga Positions; White House Holds Summit on Countering Violent Extremism; Judge Halts Obama Immigration Policies; New Twist in Las Vegas Road Rage Death

Aired February 18, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A large scale offensive by ISIS militants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kurdish forces repelled the new wave of attacks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ISIS is, even under pressure, it's still a very resilient organization.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not going to win this war unless we identify the enemy.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I disagree with the Texas judge's ruling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This immigration matter is about presidential power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People don't want the president to act unilaterally; they want the Congress to fix this permanently.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe a jury will believe that he suffered tremendous mental illness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not whether he was nuts, whether he knew right from wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We give people a fair trial, not a perfect trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to your Democrat. It is Wednesday, February 18th, just after 8:00 in the east.

We do begin with breaking news right out of Iraq. Kurdish forces right now are in a violent battle against ISIS. The Peshmerga blasting the terrorists with airstrikes. This after Islamic State launched an offensive in this northern city of Iraq called Irbil. CAMEROTA: ISIS threatening to overrun Kurdish defensive positions,

but the Kurds battled back gaining ground on the terrorists. Casualties have been reported on both sides. For the latest let's get right to CNN's Ian Lee. He's live on the ground in Cairo. What's happening at this hour, Ian?

IAN LEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, that was quite an intense battle last night lasting for roughly five hours. It was so close at times that airstrikes couldn't hit the ISIS fighters without risking hitting the Peshmerga. Toward the end though airstrikes were able to resume, and when it was all done at least 40 ISIS fighters were killed. And what we're hearing from the Peshmerga is that a lot of them were foreign fighters.

This was one of the largest attacks that we've seen in quite some time. It was along the river Zab. It hit multiple villages at the same time. The Peshmerga were able to repel it. This is an area, though, that's roughly 25 miles from Irbil. If the ISIS militants would have been able to push through there wouldn't really be anything to stop them from going there, although it didn't look like that was their plan. What it seems more like is as the Peshmerga start to choke off Mosul, that ISIS-controlled city, it seems like the militants are trying to probe Peshmerga lines, trying to relieve the pressure against Mosul. But it has come at a cost. The Peshmerga said that several of their fighters died in that advance, and we're expecting more fighting to pick up as the sun sets, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Ian Lee, thank you for that update.

And also new information this morning about the suspected gunman in the deadly shootings in Copenhagen. Also, there's new information that the Paris attacks last month at "Charlie Hebdo" and the kosher market were, in fact, coordinated. CNN international correspondent Nic Robertson has the latest. Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What we're learning here in Denmark is that the death toll at the cafe at the freedom of speech venue could have been far higher. Police say the gunman tried the back doors, the side doors to get inside where there was a crowd of about 50 people. He was only able to spray the windows from the outside, 28 bullets used there.

Now police also looking at surveillance camera footage from outside of the synagogue later that night, and they say the gunman appeared to act drunk as he approached the policeman and the guard outside to try to get close to them, and he shot at them there using two pistols that he had.

We're also getting new details from the French investigation to the attacks there. Cherif Kouachi sending a text message barely an hour or so before he attacked the "Charle Hebdo" cartoonists, sending a text message to Amedy Coulibaly who would two days later then attack the kosher supermarket. Apparently according to this report the two men had met in the early hours of the night right before, 1:00 a.m. in the morning and the day of the attack at the "Charlie Hedbdo" cartoonist. So the French authorities now getting a much closer look at how those two attacks were connected. And apparently the attack on the "Charlie Hedbdo" almost didn't go ahead because one of the Kouachi brothers apparently had stomach flu. Back to you.

CUOMO: Nic Robertson, appreciate the reporting on that.

So day two of the big White House anti-extremism summit has representatives from 60 countries working together to find ways to do better in the war against ISIS. However, they seem stuck on defining the enemy. And there was an odd moment involving the attorney general. Let's go to CNN's White House correspondent Michelle Kosinski joining us live with the latest. Tell us what he said and what it seemed to mean.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Chris. He was speaking to a group of reporters and he said at one point that we're not at a time of war. In context in answer to a question he was making a comparison to World War II when there was a formal declaration of war, but this raised a lot of eyebrows and got a lot of attention because it wasn't until September finally when the administration agreed in response to a question how is this not a war that they said, yes, we are currently at war with ISIS.

Also, the White House has been criticized by some, especially Republicans, that in this summit that's been going on, continues today, they haven't called it Islamic terrorism or Islamic extremism that they're trying to battle against. The White House response has been, well, they're using international experience to try to battle extremism of all kinds and that the people who have launched attacks are, in fact, not Islamic in the White House's view but simply terrorists.

That's easy to say when you look at this, OK, it's a summit. I mean, oh, boy, what exactly is that going to do? But the premise here is that sharing information internationally on what is working and what is not working basically can't be a bad thing. So I think it will be interesting during the public section of this to see what is seen to be working exactly and how do you know it's working? The fight against terrorist propaganda is also a big subject, and the president himself has said that is what has turbocharged is, and we're going to be hearing from him on this subject today. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Michelle, we're going to talk more about that and bring in some context. We want to talk right now to CNN national security analyst and author of "Manhunt, The 10 Year Search for bin Laden," Peter Bergen, and Haris Tarin. He is the director of the Washington D.C. Office for the Muslim Public Affairs Council. He's part of the White House Violent Extremism Summit. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

Peter, I want to start with you because we're learning new things about ISIS every day, and each one is more troubling than the next. You have studied terrorism and reported on it for years. What is most surprising to you that you've learned about ISIS?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, if you look at the actions, Alisyn, from a rational point of view, they seem to make no sense. Beheading the American journalist got the United States and the U.S. led coalition to attack ISIS. Burning alive the Jordanian pilot got Jordan to get into the fight more aggressively. Attacking the Egyptian Christians got Egypt into the fight against ISIS. And usually it's not a winning strategy to add to your list of enemies. But ISIS doesn't care because they have kind of an apocalyptic view of what they're doing. They truly believe that the end times are here, that they are part of a cosmic struggle between good and evil, and they're the good guys. And of course, the world doesn't share that opinion. Unfortunately, a very small minority of people do. And we're seeing this is arguably the most successful terror group in history in terms of recruitment and land that it controls. But their worldview is that they are leading the fight to bring true Islam to the Muslim world.

CAMEROTA: And, of course, if that apocalyptic vision, Peter, I want to stick with you for one more second, that is so baffling to rational thinkers, then how do you ever counter the ideology of people who relish the apocalypse? It seems as though all the western efforts to try to get into their mindset are impossible.

BERGEN: Well, I think you can chip around the edges. The big question which Haris well equipped to answer is, you know, how do you know if you're being successful, because by definition if you intervene with somebody who's radicalizing and they decide not to become a militant, you never really notice that. You may sort of feel it anecdotally. But I think, Alisyn, you make a very good point. At the end of the day if people truly believe in beliefs that are basically fundamentally irrational, you know, that the end of the world is here and that the battle that will take place and the tiny northern town in Syria which is what ISIS believes, you know, that's pretty hard to counter.

CAMEROTA: So Haris, let's talk about that. Is the White House talking at this summit, you attended yesterday, you'll be attending again today, are they talking about this apocalyptic vision and what to do to counter ISIS in that way?

HARIS TARIN, WASHINGTON D.C. DIRECTOR, MUSLIM PUBLIC AFFAIRS COUNCIL: Well, they're talking about the real issues that impact this conflict. What they're talking about is the recruitment strategies of ISIS, which is mainly online. They're recruiting people who are disenfranchised, who are marginalized, who have grievances.

And it's not just a narrow religious outlook. It is based on grievance, it is based on things that are happening on the ground. And they seem that they have the answer to a lot of young people around the world who are looking to find identity, who might be going through identity crises. So they're looking at it comprehensively.

And I think it's important that we don't narrow it down and say there's only one factor that's impacting the recruitment of ISIS. ISIS is not a religious organization per se. It uses religion to justify their criminal acts, but at the end of the day they are trying to feed on the identity crises and grievances that a lot of people feel, whether in Europe or in the Middle East and North Africa. CAMEROTA: Haris, you know this White House summit has been criticized

for being too vague, too broad, too hastily put together. Having been there yesterday do you feel substantive things are coming out of it?

TARIN: My organization's been there because there are substantive messages coming out of it. I think, number one, they're identifying that you have to be able to partner with communities. The only way that we're going to be successful in countering any violent extremism messages are communities are the ones that are leading it and communities are the ones that are driving this conversation. It cannot be a government led, law enforcement led conversation. We have to ensure that communities are empowered, they feel that they can take up the mantle of this discussion, and that their rights are protected as well, because the biggest antidote to the message of ISIS and Al Qaeda is that we live in pluralistic societies as Americans, as people in the free world, and that we engage together. We cannot cause divisions amongst faith groups and ethnic groups because that plays right into the hands of ISIS.

CAMEROTA: In fact, president Obama talked about that very thing this morning in an "L.A. Times" op-ed that was released. He says our campaign to prevent people around the world from being radicalized to violence is ultimately a battle for hearts and minds. We know that military force alone cannot solve this problem, nor can we simply take out innocent civilians. The world must continue to lift up voices of Muslim clerics and scholars who teach the true peaceful nature of Islam. Peter, is that the answer, just to work more hand-in-hand with Muslim clerics to get out a different message?

BERGEN: I think that is a big part of the answer, Alisyn. I think one of the reasons that there's such an emphasis on countering violent extremism on the issue of social media is that a lot of the voices that are actually speaking out against ISIS don't understand social media very well. And I work at an organization, New America, where we've worked with people like Haris and others to kind of reach out to Muslim community leaders and help them better understand how to employ tools like Google, Facebook, and other forms of social media to kind of produce the more moderate voices that do exist but are being kind of drowned out by ISIS. So, yes, that's vital.

And there have been examples of some successes here. We're going to hear from the Minneapolis example where I think a lot of Somali Americans and Somali-American community kind of basically push back on the idea that young Somali American men should go and fight with the Al Qaeda affiliate in Somalia. I think that's basically been a success. These things aren't very dramatic. It's not as dramatic as doing a beheading on TV which of course grabs the world's attention. But it's these kinds of small efforts that take a lot of time that in the end will actually, you know, make an effect.

CAMEROTA: Let's hope so. Peter Bergen, Haris Tarin, thanks so much for coming on, and Haris, thanks for sharing what's going on in the summit. Nice to hear all that. Thank you. Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Alisyn, we have news out of eastern Ukraine, signs the fire is not ceasing. Pro-government forces are pulling out of a strategic city after clashes with rebels there. A Ukrainian official says they're conducting an organized retreat that's designed to save lives and they're not giving up the city. But a pro-Russian news agency says Ukrainian forces are handing over their weapons to the rebels.

CAMEROTA: A federal investigation now underway in the wake of this spectacular train derailment and explosion in West Virginia. The oil tankers said to still be burning this morning. They were carrying more than 3 million gallons of crude oil when cars veered off the tracks. Hundreds of families who live nearby had to be evacuated.

CUOMO: What a picture there.

All right, so in St. Louis, police are being sued after an officer turned off his dash cam before arresting and tasing a suspect. Police say Cortez Bufford was stopped because his car matched a description in a shots-fired call. His attorneys say the officer used excessive force. The police officials defend the arrest, but not turning off the camera, saying the officer is being disciplined.

CAMEROTA: Yes, isn't that the point of having the dash camera, that you're supposed to keep it on?

CUOMO: Well, the idea of turning off the camera. Why would you have a good reason to turn off the camera?

CAMEROTA: I don't know.

CUOMO: Right? Officers will tell you all day long that they want the camera because it gives them --

CAMEROTA: It provides them protection as well, of course.

CUOMO: I mean, I don't know how you can look -- what is discipline mean? If you turn off the camera, if there's not some explanation that makes any sense, and I don't know what it would be, discipline should be pretty obvious.

CAMEROTA: We'll follow that story.

Also, President Obama already facing a setback with his immigration plan. A federal judge in Texas is blocking it. Will a higher court uphold the ruling? We'll talk about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With respect to the ruling, I disagree with it. I think the law is on our side and history is on our side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: A federal judge in Texas has blocked President Obama's executive actions on immigration right before the first order was set to take effect. Now, this comes just a week after the chief justice of Alabama ignored the federal government and tried to block same-sex marriages.

Is this a trend? Is this some type of planned push back or is this how the legal system works?

Let's bring in CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Jeffrey Toobin.

Now, Professor, may I prevail upon you to take the side of why this could be seen as somehow connected? Because I don't see it.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I would add one more to the trend, because I think there really is a trend here in the sense of opponents of President Obama having failed to defeat him, having failed to defeat enough members of the Democratic members of the Senate are taking their efforts to the courts.

Look at what's happening with health care, the Affordable Care Act. There is a life or death case about the future of the Obamacare that is going to be argued in the Supreme Court on March 4th. This is an attempt to overturn the immigration regulation that's about to go into effect. I think the marriage thing is a little different, but it is -- you know, the courts always wind up with our big political issues. And that's what's happening here as well.

CUOMO: Right. But as we -- we, who knows better than you. This SCOTUS especially is, you know, pretty careful about what it takes on and if it's taking on the Obamacare case, and if it's taking on laws like same-sex marriage, why is that not just normal review versus politically motivated review?

TOOBIN: Well, I don't -- I don't think it's politically motivated on the part of the court, but it is certainly politically motivated on the part of the people who are bringing these cases. I mean, they're bringing the cases because they don't like the laws, they couldn't get them overturned in Congress, or in the states, so they are going to the Supreme Court.

I think the Supreme Court basically has no choice but to take these cases. They are the court of last resort and especially now that this judge in Texas has entered a stay and has said that this law cannot go into effect. This is going to be appealed by the Obama administration to the Fifth Circuit Court of appeals in New Orleans. It's a very conservative court likely to uphold the stay.

I think when you have a major federal program on hold, the Supreme Court has to step in and say whether that's justified or not.

CUOMO: Texas is in the fifth circuit, what they call in the Fifth Circuit. That's why they have to appeal to the Fifth Circuit even though it's not in Texas, that's where the Fifth Circuit seat is, it's in New Orleans.

The judge says, basically, you didn't follow the rules in how you're supposed to enact this immigration order. Do you question that?

TOOBIN: You know, I think that really is a questionable ruling because basically what the Obama administration has said is, look, there are 11 million people in this country illegally. We only have the money in the Department of Homeland Security to try to evict at most 400,000.

So, we are going to set a policy of how we decide which people to try to evict from the country and which people we will not. That is part of what executives do. The executive branch can't prosecute every violation of law. They can't deport every illegal immigrant, so they have policies.

I don't see why establishing that policy is something that needs to go through what's called the administrative procedures act, which is what this judge said the Obama administration violated.

So, I think -- I think they're in pretty good shape legally, but these are political issues and you never know how judges are going to look at them.

CUOMO: I mean, he was leaning pretty heavy on notification, too, there. Maybe there's some provision in the statute that wasn't followed and that allowed the judge to hang his hat on that but we'll see when it gets reviewed.

Now, the situation in Alabama, we both know very well is of a very different color than what was going on in Texas with the immigration executive order. That's really about the judge on one level wanting to ignore the federal mandate for good and bad reason, right?

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: The good reason is that the Supreme Court hasn't spoken on state laws on marriage yet. The bad reason is that he has this argument that his faith really should be the rule for everyone in this country.

TOOBIN: Right. As you learned in your epic interview with the chief justice of Alabama, Ray Moore, that -- you know, he has, I think, frankly crack pot ideas about how state and federal relations work in this country and about how church and state work in this country.

I mean, simply -- simply put, the Constitution as interpreted by the federal courts is the law of the land. The states must -- must respond, must behave when the federal courts tell them what to do. But as you know, Ray Moore has a history of defying federal courts, whether it's about the Ten Commandments or here about marriage and we'll see whether he continues fighting as marriage works its way to the Supreme Court this spring.

CUOMO: I mean, to me, obviously, SCOTUS, will have to decide that. But that's about cultural evolution. I was surprised how many people agreed with the chief justice and that our rights come from God, that's not just my faith, your faith, that's the rule in this country, as if that's what the legal system operated, and as we both know, it does not.

However, in these other instances, whether it's immigration or Obamacare, do you think that the president, the White House, the administration is suffering from its own tactics in part in that when it bullies something through, you leave only recourse to the courts?

TOOBIN: Well, that's certainly the arguments of the plaintiffs here. I think those are very -- Obamacare and immigration are very different. It is true that with immigration, he could not get a bill through Congress so he acted on his own. There I think he is more vulnerable to legal challenge.

When it comes to Obamacare, that is a law that was passed by Congress and, you know, that comes with the imprimatur of Congress. And, you know, I think the courts are more reluctant to step in when they have two branches of government working together than when you do as in immigration with one branch acting unilaterally. I think there's some difference there.

CUOMO: Jeffrey Toobin, thank you for helping us understand better.

TOOBIN: All righty, Chris. See you.

CUOMO: Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris.

An intense manhunt underway for a man who shot a mom to death following this road rage incident. We'll have the disturbing details that police say led to the murder.

And Eddie Ray Routh questions his own sanity in the back of a police cruiser after gunning down American sniper Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. Could that moment that you're seeing right there keep him out of prison?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

We're learning more about a deadly road rage incident in Las Vegas. Police say this 44-year-old mother may have gone looking for the man who later shot and killed her.

For more on the story, here's CNN's Sara Sidner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Overnight, continued grief and outrage from the family of Tammy Meyers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She never did nothing bad to anybody.

SIDNER: Meyers, a 44-year-old mother of four, police say shot in the head in her own Las Vegas driveway after a road rage incident with this man. His car caught on surveillance video and this morning, the manhunt continues.

LT. RAY STEIBER, LAS VEGAS METRO. POLICE DEPARTMENT: She was encountered by a vehicle that was speeding up rapidly behind her.

SIDNER: Police say Meyers was giving her 15-year-old daughter driving lessons in this parking lot. When Meyers got behind the wheel in the neighborhood the suspect sped up behind them and pulled to one side. That's when her daughter reached over and honked the horn.

STEIBER: Right or wrong, she beeped the horn.

SIDNER: Police say the driver then got out of his car and said something that, quote, "frightened" Meyers and her daughter and the two then sped away. What happens next may have escalated the situation.

STEIBER: Mrs. Meyers is scared but she's upset.

SIDNER: According to police, Meyers returns home to pick up her 22- year-old son Brandon who grabs his gun heading off together in pursuit.

STEIBER: The vehicles and persons found each other.

SIDNER: Meyers followed the suspect before eventually breaking off and heading home. That's when police say the suspect appears as she's exiting the vehicle, firing a volley of rounds at Meyers. The son firing back. Evidence of the exchange of fire in a nearby wall.

ROBERT MEYERS, HUSBAND OF VICTIM: My son is a hero in my book. There was mistakes made, like every one of us have made in our life. But this particular mistake was made to keep a bigger mistake from happening. And my wife paid the ultimate price for it.

SIDNER: Her case, an extreme example of the potential danger of rage on the roads.

Sara Sidner, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)