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Kurdish Forces Continue to Fight ISIS; President Holds Summit on Extremist Violence; Interview with Sen. Al Franken; Defense Makes Case in "American Sniper" Trial

Aired February 19, 2015 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ISIL and groups like it are desperate for legitimacy. Savage cruelties going on out there that have to be stopped. It's not a revolution or jihad; it's a slaughter.

We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's got to be the coalition against the Islamic States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports that as many as 40 people were burned alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The jihadist group said they would hang their black flag over St. Peter's square.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Incoherent, nonsensical, even erratic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said that the person I know as my brother was not the person who showed up at my home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's all crazy. He's psychotic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Alisyn Camerota, and Michaela Pereira.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, February 19th, 8:00 in the east. Alisyn and Michaela are off. Chris Cuomo, Brianna Keilar, and the redoubtable John Berman are here for you.

The president this morning making news by arguing we are not at war with Islam. We are at war with terrorists who don't deserve the name Islamic. This is part of his basis for refusing to even acknowledge that the terrorists are Islamic.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: The president urging Muslim leaders to fight the misconception that groups like ISIS speak for them. The debate over what to call these extremists seemingly a distraction as a three-day summit wraps up today. Let's begin our team coverage with Michelle Kosinski. She is live at the White House. Michelle?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brianna. You listen to the president's words on this, that you can't shy away from the discussion. You have to confront it head on, take on this twisted ideology squarely and honestly. But then over the last couple of weeks this White House has come under fire for never wanting to use the words "Islamic extremism." Words don't really change the reality, and we all know there are other kinds of extremism, but at times it would reach the point of awkwardness, the reluctance with which they seem to not want to have that as part of the discussion, especially when you look at the programs that are highlighted during the summit. They all focus on Muslim communities in America. Well, now the president spells out his thinking on this also calling on communities themselves to take some responsibility.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Al Qaeda and ISIL and groups like it are desperate for legitimacy. They try to portray themselves as religious leaders, holy warriors in defense of Islam.

And we are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam.

(APPLAUSE)

Just as leaders like myself reject the notion that terrorists like ISIL genuinely represent Islam, Muslim leaders need to do more to discredit the notion that our nations are determined to suppress Islam. If we're going to prevent people from being susceptible to the false promises of extremist, then the international community has to offer something better. There will be a military component to this. There are savage cruelties going on out there that have to be stopped.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: You heard him there, too, the president wanting to emphasize and emphasize again that this is not a war against Islam. He says that's what terrorists want people to think, and if it's repeatedly called Islamic extremism, that could just expand that ideology and possibly attract more recruits.

So there he spells it out. And we're going to hear from the president shortly just in the next few hours speaking to foreign ministers and other leaders from around the world. Brianna?

KEILAR: All right, Michelle, we'll be tuning in. Thank you.

Kurdish forces pushing back against a new round of attacks by ISIS. Do the Peshmerga fighters have what it takes to stop the ISIS advance? Let's go now to CNN's senior international correspondent, Ben Wedeman. He is outside of Irbil. Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, what we do know is that the Kurdish forces have the will to fight ISIS. They have been feeding them now since last summer. In fact, ISIS launched a major assault just 30 miles to the west of Irbil, the Kurdish capital. It happened just up the river -- rather down the river from here. They were able to repulse them, but only after the assistance of coalition airstrikes. There have been more coalition airstrikes in that area, we understand, on two positions from which the ISIS assaults were launched. Kurdish officials telling us that somewhere between seven and eight ISIS fighters were hit.

But of course this underscores two things. On the one hand it's now over six months that these coalition airstrikes have been taking place but ISIS is still able to operate and challenge the Kurdish forces. And the Kurdish forces, for their part, will quickly tell you that ISIS outguns them because of all the weaponry they were able to loot from the retreating Iraqi army last summer. The Kurds for their part have much less in terms of firepower and equipment. So they have the will. They don't necessarily have the way. Chris?

CUOMO: Thank you very much, Ben. Appreciate the reporting. Please stay safe there.

All right, let's get some more now from Minnesota Senator Al Franken. He spoke at the White House Summit on Extremism Wednesday and he is the ranking member of the privacy, technology, and law subcommittee. Senator, thank you for being in NEW DAY.

SEN. AL FRANKEN, (D) MINNESOTA: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Tell us, who is the U.S. fighting?

FRANKEN: We're fighting this pretty evil group, a brutal, barbaric group. They call themselves ISIS. I'm not sure if the language of who you call -- these are people who have clearly perverted Islam. I don't -- the president of the United States is also speaking to people, you know, in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country, and I think the point is he's trying not to legitimize their usurpation of the use of the term "Islam." And this is not a legitimate interpretation of the term Islam is what the president is saying.

CUOMO: Does that work for you? Is this nuance or is this nonsense? Everybody you ask would say they are Muslims. They are bad Muslims, but they're Muslims and they believe that Islamism, which is their theocracy base --

FRANKEN: Yes, look, I don't know if it makes all that much difference. I'm not that interested in this debate. What I'm interested in is my Minnesota Somali community here in Minnesota, a small number, about a dozen have gone to Syria to fight with ISIS. Before that the number had gone to Somalia to fight with Shabaab, which is an Al Qaeda affiliate.

CUOMO: Sure.

FRANKEN: And so yesterday we were in the White House and the day before to talk to the administration about leading a community effort.

CUOMO: Right.

FRANKEN: And this is an effort to be led by the community to give some alternatives to these young people who have chosen this path.

CUOMO: Well, that's the threat, right?

FRANKEN: And a good meeting.

CUOMO: That's the threat, right? Just as we're saying, the president's saying about the region, that if you have a population that you allow to become disaffected and not have avenues to dignity, they are ripe for radicalization. You have your own battles there in Minnesota. You have trade there, the Wahala system, the lending system that can be abusive to funnel money back home to the wrong places. So what are you doing to control it?

FRANKEN: I think you have to be -- I think you have to be careful about that because that hasn't been -- that isn't the case in terms of remittances. Remittances are important to Somalis here. What we really have been concerned with, and this started about 10 years ago or so or maybe a little less, of young Somali Minnesotans going to Somalia because Shabaab was an affiliate of Al Qaeda.

CUOMO: Right.

FRANKEN: Ethiopia had come into Somalia. There's a historical enmity between Somalia and Ethiopia and some Somali Minnesotans were attracted to fight with Shabaab to go to the homeland. That -- the community worked there to try to discourage that, I think with some success. But then now we have about a dozen or so Minnesotans in Syria with ISIS. And we had community leaders, imams, others who have been just on a shoestring budget providing programs for these kids to steer them in a different direction, steer them away from bad choices, including things like drugs and gangs.

CUOMO: Right.

FRANKEN: But also making a horrible mistake and a tragic mistake.

CUOMO: Right.

FRANKEN: This has been a tragedy for these families. It's been a tragedy for the community, and that's what we were talking about yesterday.

CUOMO: So it fed into your concern about the strategy. You wrote a letter to Eric Holder saying that you wanted to know what the strategy was against ISIS. The president has now outlined it. Are you satisfied?

FRANKEN: Well, this is one tool, what we're talking about here, which is not -- you know, to go after recruitment in the United States. I think it's a much bigger problem in Europe, but every kid who goes there to do this, it's a tragedy, but again, for him or her and then for his family and then for the Somali Minnesota community, which is a very vibrant community here. CUOMO: Right.

FRANKEN: It's just a very few kids.

CUOMO: Please. Go ahead, finish your point.

FRANKEN: No, I was saying, this is very much about the community taking the lead. And there are some people from this community who are with -- same with the vice president and the vice president saying what do you need? What do you need? And we need resources. Right now there's three programs, one in Boston, one in Minnesota, and one in L.A. to address this and to give some resources to these communities, about $15 million over the first year, $5 million per community we think. And this is going to be led by the community.

CUOMO: Well, good. We look forward to tracking the progress with that. It's obviously a big component at home and certainly even more so abroad. Let me take two steps sideways with you. The first step is --

FRANKEN: Sure.

CUOMO: -- a little bit of looking at the Republican field. Scott -- Governor Walker comes up. Now they're saying he didn't finish college. Do you believe that's relevant in assessing whether someone should be president?

FRANKEN: No, I don't.

CUOMO: OK.

FRANKEN: You know --

CUOMO: I'll take it. I'll take it. I'll take the answer as given, senator.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: And then some good events to talk about. The "SNL" 40th anniversary, what did it mean to you, sir?

FRANKEN: It was wonderful. I was there and saw so many old friends. I thought the show was great, and I thought that people came to play. And I thought the approach to different, you know, parts of the show, the commercials, the films, the musical segments that cast members did, all of that was really just brilliantly done. And I had a great time. I had a great time. It was also very nostalgic.

CUOMO: Obviously one of the many things that you were known for during your time there was Stuart Smalley, of course. And you are much more than your comedy pedigree. However, do you ever feel -- and I love the part with you and Jordan doing Stuart Smalley, I'll never forget it. Do you ever feel that those Smalley sentiments are actually kind of needed in the country right now? Even though you can't really play that role as a senator, but do you feel that the message is kind of needed, that we are good enough and, doggone it, people like us?

FRANKEN: Well, you know, what that piece was about was actually about the recovery movement, about the 12-step recovery movement.

CUOMO: Right.

FRANKEN: And it was a way of -- it was one of the few kind of pieces on the show, a character on the show, that had a lot of levels to them, I think. And I was very proud of that, and I think that the message in 12-step programs when properly understood and worked on are very good, and very helpful.

CUOMO: You know, just throwing it out there, just throwing it out there, senator.

FRANKEN: No, I think you were reducing it to -- part of what was I think funny about Stuart was that in a way he was very lame but also there was a lot of wisdom there in spite of his own lameness.

CUOMO: I would take great exception to that. I don't think he was lame at all and I certainly will not own that opinion. It is solely your own, Senator Franken. I'm a fan.

FRANKEN: He was outwardly lame but inwardly profound.

CUOMO: I'll take it. I've only heard half of that about myself.

(LAUGHTER)

FRANKEN: But yesterday was a good day for Minnesota and for Boston and for L.A. and for America, I think, and a good day for our Somali Minnesota community, which is a very, very vibrant community here in our state.

CUOMO: And it's important to do especially when you're going to charge those abroad to do the same. So Senator Franken, thank you very much for being with us on NEW DAY.

FRANKEN: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: Brianna?

KEILAR: Moscow is rejecting calls by Ukraine for U.N. peace keepers to help enforce a cease-fire that never gained any traction. Leaders of Ukraine, Russia, France, and Germany are pushing all sides to abide by the terms of the deal reached last week. It quickly dissolved. Ukraine just pulled most of its troops out of a key battleground city after days of violence.

CUOMO: The Justice Department could sue Ferguson, Missouri. CNN has learned officials could pursue legal action against the police department for a pattern of racial discrimination. We're told the police department can avoid the suit, though, if it agrees to review and revise its tactics. Now, Attorney General Eric Holder says he expects the results of its investigation into the Michael Brown shooting to be complete before he leaves, and that will be in the next few weeks.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: An Arizona man struck it rich after buying a $6 watch from a thrift store. The watch turned out to be a rare 1959 -- what is his name?

CUOMO: Jaeger LeCoultre.

BERMAN: Yes. It was a diving watch. There were only about 900 of them made in the world because they were so hard to pronounce they discontinued production.

(LAUGHTER)

So he did what anyone would do with a watch like that. He sold it online. He got a whopping $35,000 for this watch, and some of the money I am told will go to his upcoming wedding.

CUOMO: Very nice.

KEILAR: Well spent.

BERMAN: Why keep a watch you can't pronounce?

CUOMO: That's true. It's worth the money.

BERMAN: I want a watch that's easy to say.

CUOMO: Strong, strong point.

KEILAR: All right. Well, the defense in the American sniper trial wastes no time calling Eddie Ray Routh's family to the stand to prove he wasn't insane. They're going to hear from his ex-girlfriend about his mental state, including an episode with a samurai sword. We have that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Big day in the American sniper trial of the murders of Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. The defense is putting in the meat of its case. They are saying that Eddie Ray Routh was clearly disturbed, insane, and everybody knew it. They turned to his ex-girlfriend and sister to make the case. How did it work?

Sunny Hostin, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, and Joey Jackson, HLN legal analyst and a criminal defense attorney.

Thank you for being with us.

We begin with the girlfriend, last name Weed. She gets on there and she says life with Routh was becoming progressively worse because he was diseased of mind and spirit.

Joey Jackson, how did they punctuate the point in a way that would matter to the jury?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: In a very big way. Who would know him better than of course his girlfriend?

And what does she describe? She describes in detail how he went into this grip of psychosis, and how? Initially he threatened his family, to kill them. He threatened himself at a barbecue. What happened thereafter?

He then holds her captive in his apartment with a sword and saying you're not going anywhere. You know why, Chris? I hear voices. And they're coming to get me.

And so, certainly, she makes the case that he didn't know the difference between right and wrong.

CUOMO: You've got Eddie Routh on trial, you've got the V.A. on trial for not keeping him in when the family asked to, you have how we treat mental illness and PTS on trial because obviously he needed help, and didn't even get it, even Chris Kyle was trying to help him. The jury has to process all of this.

So, then, Sunny, then we get to the next tool they used to make this same point. The girlfriend's sister and her husband get on. I want to play the -- I'm sorry, this is Eddie Routh's sister comes on and they give a similar theory. And also, remember the 911 call that the sister made. Can we play that sound to remind what the jury is hearing?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

OPERATOR: 911, what is your emergency?

CALLER: Yes, ma'am, my brother just came by here. I was (AUDIO DELETED). He's now left. He's told me that he's committed a murder.

OPERATOR: OK. Hold on.

CALLER: And I'm -- I'm terrified for my life --

OPERATOR: OK, hold one.

CALLER: -- because I don't know if he's going to come back here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, this coming from the sister. The one pushback on the prosecution, Sunny you make what this means for the defense. They'll say, yeah, he just went and admitted the murder right after he did it, showing that he knows what he did is wrong because that's what stealing a soul means, that's what killing means, and that proves that we have met our legal burden, but what does it mean for the defense?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, I think it means a lot for the defense because timeline is going to be important here. They have to show not only that he sort of suffered from mental illness and there is a history of mental illness, they have to show that he was sick and suffering from mental illness at the time of the killings. And let's face it, you've got his sister and his brother-in-law, who knew him better than anyone else, who knew him his entire life saying, oh, my gosh, he is under this psychosis. I don't recognize this person. That is right after the killing.

So, to suggest -- the prosecution to suggest that, wow, at the time of the killing he knew right from wrong but right after the killing, he went into the psychosis, that doesn't make a lot of sense for the common person.

And again, I've said over and over again, legal insanity, that's a legal construct. But these jurors are going to go into the jury room and they're going to put their common sense hats on, they'll go, this looks crazy to me. This looks insane to me.

CUOMO: They also had Eddie Routh in the back of the car saying I feel like it's schizophrenic. The defense says, there it is. The prosecution says a schizophrenic says I feel schizophrenic. And they're saying that he's making it up.

JACKSON: Chris, another big point quickly with that 911 call.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: The 911 operator asks him, is he under drugs or alcohol? She says, well, he was in the past but right now he just appears to be psychotic. She's not describing the alcohol and drugs doing that, she's describing a mental state that does that.

CUOMO: The prosecution -- the prosecution says, you're no expert and it was the drugs and alcohol, his influence. He admitted it. He was trying to get clean and that's why he was off that night, not because of any delusions. Does it stick?

JACKSON: You know, it's a great argument to make because we, of course, know that voluntary intoxication or drug use is not going to be excusable for what you do.

CUOMO: But does marijuana and booze make you a murder remember very often?

JACKSON: Aha, that's the issue.

HOSTIN: It doesn't, and we know the country's changing feeling about marijuana, but I think what's going to be important is the expert testimony that talks about PTS, talks about the fact that people that are suffering from mental illness oftentimes self-medicate in a way to try to get away from this.

So, ultimately, I think we're going to be hearing today and tomorrow from experts and it's going to be a battle of the experts. These experts have to take the facts as we now know them from the sister, from the brother-in-law, from the ex-girlfriend and then tie it in with the medicine. That's going to be very important.

JACKSON: And his mental health history, because they're speaking to that. How he was treated. The medications he was on. How that affected his state of mind.

CUOMO: So, sometimes as you two both know well, to the jury it becomes a balance of head and heart, head and heart.

HOSTIN: Sure.

CUOMO: They're going to hear the evidence and say this guy killed Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. We love them. They represent everything good, he represents everything bad. I don't want to give him a break. Even if he was sick, even if Kyle was trying to help the guy, I'm not going to reward him. This plays into the stigma of mental health also.

JACKSON: Yes.

CUOMO: That they may think saying you were insane is rewarding you.

HOSTIN: And that's shocking to me because I'm seeing that on Twitter, I'm seeing it all over social media. Chris Kyle was an American hero. Yes, he was.

But does that mean that another ex-marine, you know, another hero in a sense should not be treated for his mental illness? And in our country, we think they get a pass if they get committed for the rest of their lives into a mental institution.

CUOMO: Too often seen as a weakness or a choice.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: How is that a pass? He's still accountable for it.

JACKSON: Absolutely. I think the jury certainly wants accountability, but the wild card is what they really do and how they process it. What I mean by that is, listen, that jury at the end of the day may want to hold him accountable notwithstanding. Remember that there's a lot of distrust for mental illness.

If you're sick, Chris, I can see it. Why? You're coughing, you're hacking, you're sneezing. It's something tangible I can observe. But I can't look in your mind.

And so, therefore, you know what? Do we give him the benefit of the doubt? We can't see it.

HOSTIN: It's about the experts. It's about the experts. They have to teach.

CUOMO: This is a reflection of society, what's going on with PTS, the reluctance to treat it and respect it. That's on display here as well.

But no question, yesterday goes to the defense. This is the meat of their case. How will the prosecution counter it? It will certainly get a chance. We'll bring the experts in to tell us how that goes.

Joey Jackson, Sunny Hostin --

HOSTIN: I love this, by the way. I feel like I'm in a courtroom.

CALLAN: We're in court again.

HOSTIN: I'm enjoying this.

CUOM: I'm glad, because if you're happy, we're happy.

Brianna?

KEILAR: Thanks, Chris.

President Obama offering his assessment for fighting extremism. But his comments at the White House summit not pleasing everyone. We'll tell you why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)