Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Will U.S. Ground Troops Play Role in Iraqi Offensive?; Obama: 'Put an End to the Cycle of Hate'; Interview with Rep. Jim Himes; Rebels Intensify Push into Eastern Ukraine; Record-Breaking Deep Freeze Moving East; Countdown to the Oscars; Is U.S. Wrong Place for Extremism Summit?

Aired February 20, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: We have team coverage, and we're beginning with CNN's Barbara Starr. She's live for us at the Pentagon.

Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Brianna.

According to the Pentagon, the plan looks like this, it will start, they hope sometime in late April or May. A force of about 20,000 to 25,000 Iraqi forces, going against one to 2,000 ISIS fighters inside Mosul. The U.S. still not decided whether it will put a very small number of people on the ground if they are needed. To help the Iraqis pick out those ISIS targets in a dense urban area like Mosul.

That is something the president would have to approve of. The recommendation hasn't even been made. So, why is the Pentagon talking about future military operations, you know? That's one of the commandments. You never talk ahead of time about what you're going to do?

It may be a bit of psy ops. It may be to encourage the Iraqis, maybe to show ISIS that the coalition is coming after them and that they can't hold onto Mosul, one of their prizes.

But look at it this way: ISIS, far from stupid. They know this battle is coming. They know the coalition and the Iraqis are coming after them. The big question on the table is will those 20 to 25,000 Iraqi forces really now finally be able to get the job done -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: And Barbara, we'll rely on you to see whether or not they'll wind up at some point having the aid of U.S. fighting men and women on the ground. We'll check back with you later. Now, the big summit about extremism may have been at the White House. But the president's message to the allies was, "You need to take care of your own house."

Let's go to CNN's Michelle Kosinski at the White House. Michelle, he was very direct about this, President Obama, saying the problem starts with you, and there's situations you must fix.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there was that and also the fact that we have been hearing these strong arguments back and forth on both sides of the aisle for days now over whether the White House should have more clearly articulated the role of Islamic extremism.

And so now for the second time during the summit, now before these foreign ministers from around the world, the president addresses it and explains it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These terrorists are desperate for legitimacy. And all of us have a responsibility to refute the notion that groups like ISIL somehow represent Islam. Because that is a falsehood that embraces the terrorist narrative. Muslim communities, including scholars and clerics, therefore have a responsibility to push back. Not just on twisted interpretations of Islam, but also on the lie that we are somehow engaged in a clash of civilizations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: So this was three days of talking with these people from more than 60 countries around the world. Of course, you ask, well, what good comes of this now? As you may have guessed, it is complicated.

I mean, here you have a global problem. But it has its roots in the individual, within communities. And getting at that is not only difficult, but it can take a long time.

You know, it's interesting to hear from the director of the National Counterterrorism Center, talking about what more could be done in a really practical level. He said programs that identify early warning signs, like in schools, or in religious institutions, and also he said that there are programs out there that seem to be really useful. But they need to be expanded greatly and also as quickly as possible.

Other topics that we're going to see some action on in terms of funding and trying to establish programs, are getting religious leaders to engage, especially with young people. And programs that show young people that there are positive alternatives and opportunities, was a big one. I think one of the takeaways, too, was that the U.S. now is going to work with the UAE on digital communications and trying to counter all of that messaging on social media that's out there from ISIL and other terrorist groups -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Michelle at the White House, thanks so much.

I want to bring in now Congressman Jim Hines -- Himes, I should say. Pardon me. A Democrat from Connecticut. And he's also a member of the House Intelligence Committee, a key post there.

Congressman, thanks so much for being with us. And I want to talk to you first about what we just heard...

REP. JIM HIMES (D), CONNECTICUT: Good morning, Brianna.

KEILAR: Thank you. What we just heard Barbara Starr talk about, which is the Pentagon now saying that there is an Iraqi and Kurdish military force of 20,000 to 25,000. This is being prepared to retake Mosul in perhaps April, perhaps May. Why is the Pentagon talking about a military action before it's happened? And I'm asking you that, because some critics are suggesting that this isn't necessarily about psy ops. This may be about politics. What do you say?

HIMES: Well, I certainly think it's a roll of the dice. Look, obviously signaling your intentions to the enemy is an unorthodox way of approaching this. But remember, one of the battles that is being fought right now, metaphorical battles, anyway, is the battle for recruits. And, you know, the more the disaffected young men, largely young men around the world or even in places like Turkey, think that there's a high probability that, if they go to Mosul, or if they go to northern Syria, that they are likely to wind up dead, that's not going to dissuade all of them. But it's going to dissuade some of them.

But it is a real gamble here. You know, look, we've got some experience with this. And we know two things: one, the Iraqi army has not exactly distinguished itself in the last year with -- you know, as a fighting force, and remember, we did this once before. You know, the finest fighting force in the world, the United States Marine Corps had a rough time retaking the city of Fallujah in Iraq many years ago from a similar band of terrorists. And of course, there's nothing uglier and more difficult than door-to-door urban fighting. So this is -- it's a bit of a gamble that the Pentagon is taking.

KEILAR: OK. So you say it's a bit of a gamble. Do you think that -- certainly, I think our expectation is with some of these recruits, is they're inspired to die for a cause.

So isn't there also an argument to be made that telegraphing or saying outright that this force is going in to retake Mosul that it might actually inspire some young people to join up and fight with ISIS?

HIMES: Look, there's no doubt that some of the people that are part of ISIS, some of the people that are recruited are so out there, so on the fringe that they might actually move towards their own deaths or towards a suicide mission. We see that. But I don't think that's the majority of people. And obviously, if you can take some people and keep them away, that's a -- that's a good outcome.

But look at the end of the day, you know, most of these people are making a rational calculation. Even if some of these people are really truly seeking martyrdom, or whatever it is that they seek.

KEILAR: The president has laid out a plan, Congressman, to win or attempt to win the hearts and minds and to deter people from joining up with ISIS. But you said that you fear there will be little discussion of a long-term strategy to stop terrorism at its source. What you heard yesterday from the White House, does it do what you think needs to be done?

HIMES: Well, it's a very small part of it. And yes, I have said over and over again that we spend in the United States Congress so much time talking about exactly how we're calibrated militarily and, you know, through the use of our intelligence community to go after these terrorists. And, in fact, we're pretty good at that through the various means that we have of taking out their leadership.

But very rarely does the Congress of the United States sit back and say, "Wait a second. What are the larger structural reasons that a -- that terrorism and that violence is flourishing in the Middle East?" Why are states failing? You know, why did Libya come apart at the seams and is now a failed state where ISIS is showing up? You know, why is it that the entire northern half of Iraq decided to go with a bunch of murderous terrorists instead of actually, you know, working with their own national army?

What motivates a young man in Cairo to decide that, instead of, you know, living a middle-class small business lifestyle, they're going to go sign up with ISIL?

Those are -- those are deep and profound questions, and if we don't get to them -- and by the way, it has to do with failed states and people feeling like they don't have either economic or political opportunity. It has to do with, you know, imams, a small number of them, preying on young men and vulnerable young men. But if we don't address those issues, 30, 40, years from now we will still be talking about is it drone strikes, is it boots on the ground?

And so I think the president's discussion of the last three days is important, but it's a very, very small part of the bigger picture.

KEILAR: Real quick, before I let you go, Congressman, fascinating personality profile coming out from the U.S. intelligence community of the head of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, suggesting he's headstrong; he's a religious zealot; and he has an apocalyptic vision. What does the profile tell you about ISIS's motives?

HIMES: Well, you know, there's no question. There's a real discussion happening right now in the media and amongst academics about exactly who these people are. And quite candidly, you know, right out of the box, I think, at the very highest levels, including the president. We didn't have a particularly good finger on the pulse of what this organization was. You know, the president's unfortunate comments about this sort of being the JV team to al Qaeda that honestly turned out not to be the case.

And so understanding who these people are, and though I think we're spending too much time on this, you know, how do they relate to Islam, is an important conversation. Because yes, the leadership are these apocalyptic -- you know, insane is the wrong word, but people who think that they're bringing about the end of times. And we need to understand how we can make them look wrong in that religious interpretation.

Look, let's push them back. Let's show the world and the Islamic world that we can collectively beat these guys, that they are, in fact, a band of ideologically motivated criminals, and the recruiting will begin to be a lot less successful than it has been. KEILAR: And that's the struggle we're seeing now from Washington.

Congressman Himes, thanks so much for being with us.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks so much, Brianna.

Want to go to Ukraine now, where it's clear that Russian separatists are really in complete control of Debaltseve, including a major rail hub. This is almost a week into the phantom ceasefire there. Our senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, is live in Donetsk right now, where there was, Nick, we understand, shelling overnight?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was remarkable, actually, here in the separatist stronghold yesterday, the most intense day of shelling on the outskirts of the city that we have seen in a long time, frankly, since the truce failed in the early hours of Sunday.

Again, we heard some volleys today. It is measurably quieter, but the separatists have said that one woman was killed in the shelling yesterday. Clearly, this is not a truce. And there has to come a moment, surely, where the Ukraine, Russia, France and Germany, their rhetoric catches up with the reality on the ground, and people declare the Minsk agreement to have been violated.

Debaltseve may have been the Ukrainian defeat there. The separatists encircling that particular town, as we saw yesterday, and taking full control of it. That could have been the bloodiest period of this conflict so far, Ukraine is still counting its dead from that violence.

And perhaps later on today we will hear from the OSCE monitors in charge of looking at this ceasefire, assessing it, but realistically, we're far from a truce, and separatists now themselves, in fact, saying that, if what they call Ukrainian fire continues on their targets and territory here, they themselves will step out of the Minsk agreement. Then we are in a very uncertain, potentially escalation of violence here, just on the edge of Europe -- John, Chris.

BERMAN: New level of chaos there, to be sure.

CUOMO: Absolutely. And Nick, please stay safe over there.

All right. Let's change topics, come back home here. Will you tweet me a word that truly captures the weather? Cold just ain't cutting it anymore, not when tens of millions will suffer record lows and freeze warnings are issued -- listen to this -- not just across 30 states, as deep down south as Florida.

CNN's Ryan Young, he ain't in Florida. He's at Niagara Falls no more. Ryan, how you holding up and what's going on behind you?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm holding up pretty well. It's pretty cold. Not the same kind of temperatures I'm used to with the negative 31 wind chill. But, look, this is absolutely beautiful. In fact, so many people are coming to check it out. We'll have to show you this, the sunrise is coming up. So many people are walking this direction so they can see what we are seeing with this beautiful sunrise. The mist coming up and the water flowing over.

Of course, a lot of people are flocking here because, as you can see, it looks like a winter wonderland. I'm standing in a snow globe, essentially. All of this ice is frozen. But they say the water is moving under it. And in fact, they say more than 20 million gallons of water is still moving through this area. But people want to see this, because it does look like -- just like everything is rock-solid.

I mean, you look in that direction, you see people who are just coming from all around. In fact, we've seen people kissing and holding and taking pictures. All to get a glimpse of this.

As we were sitting in our room and looking at this overnight, it was just really majestic to kind of watch how the water has been flowing and this large cloud of mist that just keeps rising up into the sky.

Now look, this cold has hit the entire country. In fact, it is negative 17 degrees in Lexington, Kentucky. It is so cold there. Of course here, negative 31, wind chill with the mist coming off the edge of this ocean. And then, of course, Boston, they face 15 days below freezing.

If you look back here, you can see all the solid ice that's around encasing this area. But it hasn't stopped people from walking around and enjoying the sunrise. In fact, there's a woman running by us. A guy was holding some coffee, and his coffee actually froze in his cup. So you can just tell how cold it is out here. But still very beautiful.

KEILAR: Iced coffee.

CUOMO: First of all, Ryan, you're the man for being able to talk that much that cold. You did a great job. It's good to have you out there.

YOUNG: Thank you.

CUOMO: The coffee froze in the cup.

KEILAR: Amazing.

CUOMO: That's never good. But it can't freeze the heart. People still out there.

KEILAR: OK.

CUOMO: Respect that.

KEILAR: Thank you, Chris.

We do have some breaking news this morning. An attack by militants at a hotel in Somalia has left at least eight people dead. The attack in Mogadishu was a combination of a car bomb, a suicide attack and gunfire. This is a hotel that is frequently used by government ministers and army officers. Al-Shabaab believed to be responsible, but no formal claim has been made.

BERMAN: The Texas attorney general says he is working to void the license of the state's first legally-married same-sex couple. Just hours after Sarah Goodfriend and Suzanne Bryant tied the knot, Texas Supreme Court -- the Texas Supreme Court granted the attorney general's request to block any additional marriages. The court stayed the rulings, declaring the state's ban on same-sex marriage was unconstitutional. A county clerk issued the license to the couple, citing Goodfriend's ovarian cancer diagnosis.

CUOMO: All right. Take a look at these live pictures of Victoria Harbor in Hong Kong. There's a dazzling fireworks show underway right now. It's going on right now. They are celebrating the lunar new year. A big chunk of the world is marking it today with displays like this all over.

Depending on where you are and how you translate this event, it is either the year of the goat, the ram, or the sheep. So which is it? Ewe decide.

BERMAN: That was a baaad question.

CUOMO: Aw, E-W-E, ewe.

KEILAR: The puns are strong here.

CUOMO: I thought that was good. You didn't like it.

BERMAN: Strong.

CUOMO: Be prepared for it, though.

BERMAN: Let's go right away now to Hollywood as the countdown to the biggest night there, will it be "Boyhood"? Will it be "Birdman"? Will it be "American Sniper"? Big movies, big competition. That is why we have Michaela Pereira there to cover the big story.

Good morning, Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: I'm glad I'm the one that doesn't have to decide, John, because I tell you, those races are so, so tight. We'll talk about that a little bit more, predictions. We'll talk with some Hollywood insiders.

But right now I want to kind of show you the excitement that will be building as the weekend progresses. It's Friday morning, Hollywood still asleep unless they're heading home from the club. I'm on the red carpet right now. It doesn't look like I'm on the red carpet. But I am. Under this plastic -- in fact, let's come over here -- is, John Berman, the actual red carpet. But they want to, you know, it's like a sneeze guard. I'm kidding. They just want to protect it from the elements, but that's red carpet right underneath there. For now, we'll keep it under lock and key.

There's about 500 feet of red carpet that goes all the way down to that bridge that goes all over the carpet. I'll be standing up there come Sunday. Don Lemon and all the other media types will be hanging out over here. Say hi, guys.

See all of those little white dashes and dots? Those are the segments of where each of the correspondents from the media outlets from around the world will be standing. That's going to be their office for the day on Sunday.

As for fans, those of you that are lucky enough, get to sit, there's like 700 bleacher seats right up here, John Berman, for some lucky guests who get to come here and watch the action all unfold on the red carpet.

Now weather. Last year you remember there was a torrential monsoon. We were under -- this whole carpet was covered in a tent. It was covered, but we still got dumped on. It did rain last year for the Oscars. I don't want to be the one to tell you, but there's about a 60 percent to 70 percent chance of rain in Los Angeles -- I can't believe I'm even saying that -- on Sunday.

A high of about 61 degrees. Nice temperature, but it would be nice to keep the rain off -- off our hair. Because, you know, we'll be spending hours in the salon to look glorious for the Oscars, but that's the forecast right now.

We'll have a little bit more coming up from the red carpet, coming up in the next hour. We're also going to talk about some of the controversy that's going on with this year's Oscars.

But for now, live from the red carpet, back to you in New York, where I know it's 1 degree.

KEILAR: Because you know all of that beautiful hair doesn't happen by accident.

CUOMO: It's true. It's true.

KEILAR: So it's important.

CUOMO: Michaela looks great every day. She doesn't need the same help those others do.

KEILAR: Always looks great.

BERMAN: Chris puts his hair on very quickly, so I don't know...

CUOMO: Yes, that's true. A couple of clips and away I go.

All right. So if the terror problem is over there, why was the counterterrorism summit over here? You're going to hear from someone who says it should have never taken place, at least not where it did.

KEILAR: And Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren has maintained she isn't running for president. But she's finally talking about the reasons that people are pushing her to get into the race. John King will explain that "Inside Politics."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CUOMO: So the three-day summit at the White House about how to deal with extremism, the president wrapped it up. He's saying it's not Islamic extremism. That's been a little bit of confusion and a sore point.

Another big question comes up, the president very strong: this problem is over there with you, allies. You've got to take care of your own house. Then why was it here?

Let's discuss of confusion and what's really going on with Aaron David Miller. He wrote about this very topic. He's vice president for new initiatives and distinguished scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars.

How many secretaries of state did you help, Mr. Miller?

AARON DAVID MILLER, WOODROW WILSON CENTER: You know, let's see, 15 or 16?

CUOMO: Fifteen of 16? You just can't get it right.

MILLER: A number of ours, indeed, Chris.

CUOMO: All right. So let me ask you this. You've seen both sides of the aisle. Let's start with the obvious. If the problem is over there, should the summit have been over there? Or is that too obvious?

MILLER: Well, I mean, it would have been nice, and I wrote this piece on foreign policy to make the broader point that, unless the Arab states own up to their own lack of governance or, in the case of Libya and Yemen, no governance, it's to be extremely difficult to even to begin create a political strategy in order to counter this group.

But it poses, as you just articulated, a contradiction. Because if democratization, as the president has laid out, is the key to fighting ISIS, well, then, Houston, we have a problem. Because most of our allies in the Gulf, in particular -- the Saudis, the Emiratis, the Qataris -- they're hardly poster children for democratization and political inclusion.

So I think the whole notion of a summit made in America that is going to teach the Arabs how to run their political systems or reform them, I think frankly is a lost cause.

If we're going to beat I.S., we're going to beat it through a military and political strategy that demonstrates, in effect, that what I.S. is trying to do, create a state and expand it, simply isn't possible. And that raises key military questions. We have to demonstrate that I.S. essentially can't expand and ultimately can't deliver to the constituents that it presumes to include within its realm. That's the key. And I think that's where America really can play a lead role.

CUOMO: Do you care about the American confusion over what to call or this, or this purposeful not calling the enemy Islamic? MILLER: Yes, I care a great deal. First, you know, clarity and

honesty are really important. If we can't even describe the challenge of the enemy that we face in honest terms, how are we -- how are we going to begin to defeat it? And the reality is the president is right. Are we at war with Islam? No.

CUOMO: But nobody says we're at war with Islam.

MILLER: Exactly.

CUOMO: I mean, Bill O'Reilly was saying that there's a holy war going on because of them beheading the Christians. But, you know, that's what he does.

Nobody is saying we're at war with Islam. It's whether or not these guys who are fighting us right now with the coalition are Islamic, and they all say they are. I don't understand why he avoids it.

MILLER: We are at war with a radicalized version of Islam, and we trivialize the nature of this threat by assuming that these people, even though their behavior is gangster-like and criminal -- we trivialize the problem by suggesting somehow that this is some sort of generic kind of terrorism.

I.S. is basically drawing on the norms of war in the 18th -- in the 8th Century of Islam. Crucifixions, beheadings, the enslavement of women. All of these things were mentioned in an Islamic context centuries ago.

And this is a very Islamic group. It may be a perversion, a distortion, a criminalization of the religion. But let's be clear: We can't afford, as the president suggested, to describe these people as the JV's of al Qaeda. This is a much more serious threat, and we ought to recognize it, instead of willfully denying the fact that this has anything to do with religion or Islamism. It does.

You know, all religions, Chris, are open to interpretation and to the allure of false prophets. And in effect, I think that's what's happened here. But to deny it? To suggest that we're fighting violence and extremism? No, that's -- it's a long war, and we've got to get the description of what it is we're confronting right.

CUOMO: And it also feeds the phobia in America of Islam in general. I think it winds up defeating its own purpose. Because people say, "Why won't he call it the obvious? Maybe there is something wrong with those." And there's also irony that this perversion goes back to the days of the crusades, and that's when a lot of these rules came from. That was something else the president brought up.

Last question for you, though, today, Aaron. Where is the hope? If the "allies," in quotes -- if the allies are people that ISIS can use as proof of why they need to radicalize in the first place, how do we get our allies to help address the real problem of stopping the need for an ISIS? How do we get people who won't do it, to do it?

MILLER: I think the odds of getting the Arab states to reform, to democratize, chances of that are slim to none. The odds of crafting a -- an alternative message that Is going to be more competitive and more alluring than the one I.S. has crafted, I think the chances of doing that are slim to none.

I return to where I started. the goal here has to be a military and political strategy, which our allies have to participate in, to block I.S.'s expansion into Iraq, and to demonstrate that they, in fact, can't expand and that they can't deliver the kinds of services -- electricity, water, good governance. We must make their caliphate fail.

And if, you know, I'm 65 and I'm persuaded that the world's most compelling ideology isn't nationalism, democracy, even capitalism. It's success. Because success generates constituents, and success generates power. We have to demonstrate on the battlefield, and to the extent we can in the political arena, that I.S. has failed. That's the way to beat this. But it's going to take time, Chris. A lot of time.

CUOMO: I want to take the stardust off of another word, and just say they're not effective. Aaron David Miller, thank you for helping us understand better, as always. Have a good weekend, sir.

MILLER: Much appreciated, Chris. You, too.

CUOMO: Brianna.

KEILAR: Thanks, Chris.

Could Chris Christie be facing more trouble with his expected 2016 White House run? Is Jeb Bush taking all of his potential donors? John King will be exploring that, "Inside Politics," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)