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New Day

Rudy Giuliani Clarifies Comments in WSJ Op-Ed; Will DHS Be Defunded?; Potential Closing Arguments in American Sniper Trial; Gas Prices Climb 28 Days in a Row

Aired February 23, 2015 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: A big headline abroad, Egypt's president calling for a unified Arab force to defeat ISIS. President al-Sisi says he already has commitments from Jordan and United Arab Emirates. They say they'll send in troops. But what about the Saudis and others?

Egypt also showing its resolve to fight with a series of airstrikes targeting ISIS positions in Libya. This in retaliation, they say, for the beheading of 21 Egyptian Christians.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: The terror group Al Shabaab posting a video calling for on attacks on malls in America, Canada, and the U.K. Homeland Security chief Jeh Johnson warning shoppers to be on guard though U.S. administration officials make it clear there are no specific threats. Still, they are on guard considering the lone wolf attacks in Paris and Copenhagen.

CUOMO: Another tragedy on a river in Bangladesh. About 70 people this time reported dead after a cargo vessel hit a passenger ferry. Authorities believe passengers on the top deck jumped to safety but many on the lower deck trapped. I said another because a ferry accident last summer on the same river left 45 people dead.

CAMEROTA: So terrible.

All right. We want to go now to Inside Politics on NEW DAY with John King. A lot to talk about. Good morning, John.

JOHN KING, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS": Alisyn, happy Monday. Chris Cuomo, happy Monday to you as well. There is a lot to talk about. Rudy Guiliani, shall we say, get me a rewrite. That's his theme this morning.

With me to share their reporting and their insights, Juana Summers of NPR, Jonathan Martin of "The New York Times".

We talked a lot last week about Mayor Guiliani, Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York City, who said at a fundraiser, a private dinner, he didn't think President Obama loves America, says he doesn't love America. Well, in "The Wall Street Journal", he's trying to clean it up a little bit because it was controversy. Let me read this little bit of it.

"I cannot read President Obama's mind or heart, and to the extent that my words suggested otherwise, it was not my intention, but I can only be disheartened when I hear him claim, as he did last August, that our response to 9/11 betrayed the ideals of this country. When he interjected that we tortured some folks, he undermined those who managed successfully to protect us from further attacks."

So the mayor trying to say I don't know if he loves America or not, I guess forgive him for that, let one that one go, and then make it about his post-9/11 response. Why is he doing this?

JUANA SUMMERS, NPR: So he's created a huge issue for other members of his party. Rudy Guiliani of course is someone who's conceded he doesn't really have a path to the White House. But now if you look at what happening in the days and weeks ahead, every other person from his party who is considering running for president, has dipped their toe into the water, is being thrust into the fray having to talk about this question, and it comes at a moment where a lot of the conversation is being made about race, it's being made about the president's religion. And that's not anywhere that any Republican right now wants to be, so he's created quite a trap for others that he might perhaps be supporting.

KING: And has he closed the trap now by writing this? Has he put this to rest, Jonathan? It's like, OK, maybe I could have been more articulate is what he's trying to say?

JONATHAN MARTIN, THE NEW YORK TIMES: If we're talking about it still by the end of the week, I guess we'll probably know. The question is he going to say anything else? This op-ed would indicate that he's probably done speaking about this. I mean, this feels like his last effort to sort of wrap a bow on what he said, half walk, half platform, it's a riff more about the views is sort of how it seems.

KING: One of the guys at the table, the reason this became a big national story, it would have been a big story anyway, but Scott Walker, the governor of Wisconsin, who's running for the Republican presidential nomination, not quite officially yet, but he's in the race, was there. And that's what's started this.

So everyone says, Governor Walker, do you agree? And then people ask, as you note, do you agree with Mayor Giuliani?

Governor Walker is here, the nation's governors are here, for the their big annual meeting. He was asked over the weekend by Dan Balz, Robert Costa, of "The Washington Post" about the Guiliani controversy. He was also asked if he thought the president was a Christian. And he said, look, stop asking me these questions. Here's what's Scott Walker tweeted out on Saturday. "Enough with the media's gotcha game. We started our American Revival," that's his PAC, "to talk about big, bold, ideas."

To a degree, candidates are right. We asked -- they get asked just about anything. But if you're going to run for president, is it a gotcha game? Or is it, hey, you want to be president? SUMMERS: To a degree, I think Govenor Walker has a point, but if the

question is one you don't like, you can always not answer it.

Here's what's really interesting about Scott Walker, I think, is that he is incredibly accessible to the media, if you look at after the comments that Guiliani made, he gave a slew of interviews, including the interview you mentioned to "The Washington Post". Many kind of changed tack and decided to, when faced with questions about the president's religion, say I'm going to steer away from that. And I think that shows just how different running for governor is, even though he had obviously the very high profile recall election several years ago, from the scrutiny that comes with a presidential race. And that's something that he and his advisers have to keep in mind. There is nothing like the scrutiny you get, there's nothing like the media attention that you get, and that we were part of back in 2012. And I think he perhaps is not as road tested as he perhaps thought he was. And I think that's what we're seeing really here.

KING: But on the -- in the right, conservative media, the blogosphere, I've got a Red State posting here from Erick Erickson this morning, "Bootlickers still pretend Obama is a Christian." He's getting a good ride actually.

MARTIN: It's a tough affair. Tough but fair, I'm just kidding.

KING: What do you make of it?

MARTIN: Scott Walker is nobody's fool. And he doesn't want to answer these kinds of questions, which is problematic but it also gives him an opportunity, on the right, which by posting a link to his PAC to sort of get some pop out of this, he's taking advantage of. It's all kind of a depressing, cynical exercise, frankly, because Walker doesn't want to play the game. And by not playing the game, he then gins up sympathy on the right against the media, which enables him to raise more money. And it's all a very circular deal.

KING: Also he was at the White House last night. Let's see if you've never met Scott Walker's son, here it is, a selfie of Scott Walker going into the White House. He takes a selfie with his son and he posts this stuff. This is on his governor's account. The first one was sent out from his personal account, which is more of his political account. This is his son Alex at the White House. And, at that dinner, there are 31 Republican governors now. We have a Democratic president, 31 Republican governors. Now President Obama said, look, we disagree. I'm sure President Obama looking at there, saying some of you want to move into this house. But let's try to get some business done.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Within this room, we're not going to agree on everything. But I am committed to working with each and every one of you over the next two years to keep making progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KING: Is there anything they agree on? I guess these 31 Republican governors would like the infrastructure money; the president wants to do that. Can he do business with these guys?

MARTIN: Probably more so than Congress probably, sure. I mean, look, not just have infrastructure but a lot of these governors want to keep DHS open, you know, for the purposes of their economy and certainly public safety. But look, if you just -- take health care, for example. You've got a lot of governors who are Republicans who wanted to expand Medicaid. And you also have a lot of governors who are worried about losing the exchange under the Affordable Care Act, that the Supreme Court knocks that out. So, yes, there is much consensus and comity when it comes to the governors than here in Congress.

KING: And the question is can the governors, while they're in town, maybe we do have -- by Friday the Department of Homeland Security is supposed to run out of money. Now the president can use emergency powers to keep the Border Patrol, to keep some of the most important functions of that department, but there was that -- there was a court ruling. And some Republicans think that's the way to do this, to say, look, let's give the president money and let's just fight this in the courts.

Listen to John McCain and Lindsey Graham. They're essentially begging their party not to shut down the department.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I don't believe we will. We now have an exit sign and that is the federal court decision saying that the president's actions, unilaterally, are unconstitutional.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Our best bet is to challenge this in court, that if we don't fund the Department of Homeland Security, we'll get blamed as a party and the worst thing to do is add gasoline to the fire by having the Republican party defund the Department of Homeland Security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I translate that as the two guys from the Senate begging the House to please back down. Don't put us in this mess.

SUMMERS: Yes, no, this was really complicated. If -- Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell now, this is the new American Congress, Republicans have control of both chambers, and yet he is facing down possibly presiding over the second shutdown for this agency in 18 months when you have all of these threats bubbling up.

And, if anything, I believe this ruling has really shown just how little cohesion there is among House and Senate Republicans on how to go ahead. You have folks like Senator McCain, Senator Graham, who are pleading almost, saying don't shut us down. But other, more conservative Republicans, particularly over in the House, are saying this ruling actually emboldens our stance and proves our point that we need to attack this legislation. They say they've sent the Senate a bill and the Senate needs to acts on it. Senator McConnell has said that the Senate will act on that again later today. Again, not likely to gain enough votes to make it through, so not a particularly good forecast for the Department of Homeland Security and its workers.

MARTIN: It's the best example yet of the real tensions between the House and Senate Republicans, too. I mean, you can see there with those two clips just how much the vast majority of the conference in the Senate really wants to get this done. Fund DHS. and the House, it's a much more ideological body and this is the sort of a moment where you feel like we're going to put our foot down over there. And even Boehner, who is usually the leader who is trying to keep the hard chargers (ph) at bay, seems to be more sympathetic to his hard-liners now.

KING: It'll be interesting to watch, won't it, Jon?

Thanks for coming in on a Monday.

And Alisyn, as we watch this play out during the week, that is the key tension. Some of the House Republicans, look, everyone says they're going to blame us if we shut this department down. Remember, when they had the partial government shutdown before, the polls did show the Republicans got blamed. But they won big in the elections. So a lot of House Republicans say let's do it again.

CAMEROTA: Interesting theory on that. But we will be watching all this week and we know you will shepherd us through it, John. Thanks so much.

Well, closing statements could begin today in the American sniper murder trial. We will tell you how a "Seinfeld" episode could factor into those jury deliberations.

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CUOMO: All right, we're going to give you a quick date to the pivotal moments here because jurors could hear closing arguments today in the American sniper murder trial. The question they're going to have to consider is was Eddie Ray Routh, the ex-Marine who shot and killed Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield, legally insane? Or legally sane, any way you want to look at it. Two prosecution experts have testified Routh knew right from wrong and part of his insanity defense may have been inspired by an episode of "Seinfeld"? What? Yes, we're going to take you through it.

CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson here with us. Yes, Paul, that's exactly what they said. And they're not making this a joke about "Seinfeld". We'll show you the B-roll, it's where Kramer believes that there's some pig people out there. This went to contrivance, that this is a plan from this defendant. Tell us.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's so bizarre, Chris, because the last high profile insanity defense, Andrea Yates, remember she killed four of her children.

CUOMO: In Texas.

CALLAN: In that case, the psychiatrist said she got it from a "Law and Order" episode. By the way, it was a mistake and her conviction got reversed as a result of it. She got a new trial. Now, she was acquitted in the second trial.

So bizarre now, another TV show comes up. Yes, it shows planning. He's constantly making these pig references and the prosecution is saying this works into the "he knew it was wrong, he planned the killing", because he based it on this character.

CUOMO: A second component, Joey, that played into it also -- if you are going to shoot it down -- is that they said that, you know what, he also once before when he threatened family members and friends, he knew that he got sent to a hospital for that so he knew if he made the same kind of plea again, he may get the same fate. Did you buy it?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Very good arguments but they could fall flat and here's why. We all get thoughts from somewhere. We're constantly talking and debating the issue of whether our children should be playing video games. Why? Because they're violent. Why? Because they get into their heads and their minds. And so the argument from the prosecution is this was something that got into his mind, something of obsession. Doesn't show contrivance, doesn't show that, as a result of this episode, he's trying to get out of it. What it does show is his further paranoia, his further schizophrenia. And the further fact that, when he was exposed to this episode, it so affected him that he believed, in reality, that men were half hybrid, half pigs.

CUOMO: So the prosecutors are saying, hey, this is it. It was a fake. And the defendant's saying, no, it's not a fake. But thank you for helping us identify the source of his delusion.

So then you have the big actor, the big factor here. "American Sniper", all right, we can't forget that for everything that they'e hearing in the jury box, these are human beings. Chris Kyle is a huge figure. And he is gone now. And the question becomes, first of all, the simple question is, was it OK for them to watch the Oscars? And what do you think is going to weigh on them in terms of the influence of who was killed?

CALLAN: I'm shocked that the judge allowed them to watch the Oscars. I mean, do you ever see somebody say something odd or weird at the Oscars? Like all the time. And who's to say somebody wouldn't have commented on the trial? Now, luckily, I don't think anybody did. But it's also focusing a lot on the victim in the case by allowing them to watch the movie. So I really think it's bizarre that the judge didn't been watching the Oscars.

JACKSON: That's a point well taken. And it's certainly something that the judge shove done.

With that being said, here's the flipside. The reality is the Oscars are Hollywood and this is real life. When you voir dire a jury, that is, you select the jurors who are appropriate for this particular case, you question them, Chris. And the question you ask, not withstanding the fact that you watched "American Sniper" and you may have enjoyed it, could you understand and appreciate that that's the movies and that this is real life? And will you base the decision that you make in this case on what you hear from the witnesses on that stand and nothing that you hear on TV or that you see in the movies? And if the jurors say yes, you trust that those jurors are going to do their job. That's what we have here.

CUOMO: Now, to my mind, it's also just further confirmation that this trial is about something even bigger than facts and law. It's about who this guy was and what his mission was back home. So I think that could play either way as well.

That said, Paul Callan, you go first. What does the prosecution argue in its closing if it happens today?

CALLAN: You'll see arguments on two big things, No. 1, voluntary intoxication. He was smoking marijuana, he was doing alcohol. That, exacerbated, made it worse the mental illness. Under Texas law, however, because he voluntarily did that, he doesn't get the benefit of saying that's a defense in the case. No. 2, he constantly makes reference to the fact that he knew what he did was wrong after the killing. He says it on a number of occasions. And Texas has a very simple law -- if you know it was wrong, it doesn't matter how mentally ill you are. You don't get the benefit of the insanity.

CUOMO: Not sick enough. Joey.

JACKSON: So the reality is this. First, let's look at the standard. It's by a preponderance of the evidence. Yes, it's the defense's burden to show, but only is it more likely than not that he was insane? And we don't only have to look at the facts of this particular case, but we have to go before that.

A person described by his family as being happy go lucky, a person who was normal by all accounts goes to Iraq. He comes back, he is very suicidal, why? Because of what he witnessed. It doesn't matter he wasn't in combat; you see things when you're over there. He goes on a humanitarian mission in Haiti to help. He sees bodies all over the place. It changes who he is. In addition, look at the history of him being in and out of mental institutions and the effect it had. Look at the fact eight days prior to these killings, his mother begged the VA, don't let him out. He's not ready. And then of course turning to the --

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAN: You actually do a summation.

CUOMO: You're objecting during the closing?

CALLAN: I'm objecting to this. Jackson is doing a summation. This is supposed to be legal commentary, is it not?

(CROSSTALK) CUOMO: All right, Paul Callan, you have struck a chord with me. I'm cutting Joey off. I'm saying that, right now, the prosecution, this is their case to lose. It would be nice, ladies and gentlemen, if this jury took a look at the situation and said it is time for us to recognize mental illness for what it really is, that it's not an excuse. But on these facts and this situation, I think right now the prosecution has a case that it should not lose. But we'll see. And you can get more perspective yourself, tune in tonight to CNN special report, "BLOCKBUSTER: THE STORY OF AMERICAN SNIPER", 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

Paul Callan, Joey Jackson, thank you as always.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, thanks, gentlemen. Gas prices rising 28 days in a row now. Christine Romans tells us if the relief at the pump is over.

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CUOMO: It is time for CNN money now. Chief business correspondent Christine Romans is in the money center to talk a little gas prices?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and stocks took guys. Stocks are climbing around the world thanks to an agreement between Greece and its creditors. The Dow and the S&P 500 at record highs.

And if you love charts as much as I love charts, please gaze upon this one. This is the S&P 500 up 212 percent since the market bottom, March 9, 2009, almost six years ago. Remember how horrible it was then? Patient investors have been rewarded.

Gas prices are climbing 28 days in a row, national average $2.30 now. That's up about a nickel in the past week, up 27 cents in the last month. Expect prices to keep creeping higher. But look at the comparison, drivers are still saving hundreds compared to this time last year when prices were well above three bucks a gallon. Guys?

CAMEROTA: OK, so not so bad. Thanks, Christine.

CUOMO: S Egypt's president urging the creation of a united Arab force to take on ISIS. Did you know there is already an Arab force some 40,000 strong? Why aren't they in the fight?

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