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Report: 'Jihadi John' is British National; Three Terror Suspects Arrested in New York; Chris Kyle's Brother Speaks Out

Aired February 26, 2015 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Well, operational security is often in play and we try to respect the government's wishes whenever we can in that regard, at least.

But Nic, let me ask you this. It raises the question. You knew who he was. You were following him. The irony of him going on some, you know, graduation gift safari aside, which is when he supposedly was accosted by police and got upset and started his path. When do you take a man like this, and when do you take the risk that you want to follow them and see where they go?

ROBERTSON: You know, Chris, we've got a great example of how differently the British and U.S. intelligence counterterrorism agencies work on this issue. If you look at the three guys arrested in the United States yesterday.

When they got on the radar, the FBI got in close, that there was somebody in their circle who was able to report on them. That he was an intelligence operative, and therefore, that led to their arrest on what they said.

In Britain, what the British authorities have tended to do is wait in the background, watch these groups. And hit them, if you will, arrest them before they go operational.

The problem the British authorities face is they are short of security and counterterrorism personnel who have had the head of the metropolitan police. The counterterrorism here in the U.K. say that on the record as recently as several months ago. There has been an uptick in recruitment for the intelligence agencies.

But when you have to put -- and this is what we have from people close to intelligence operations here. When you need to put 20 to 30 people, they say, to monitor one person 24/7, you immediately get an idea of how stretched the resources are here. They have so many people to watch, Chris.

CUOMO: Nic, thank you very much for the reporting. I know more details will come out. Please let us know when you have them -- Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK. More breaking news, about home-grown terror in New York City. Three Brooklyn men busted for allegedly aiding ISIS. Two of them stopped from flying to Turkey, where they planned to cross into Syria to join ices ISIS on the battlefield. This is the first known case of ISIS operatives successfully recruiting residents of New York City. We have team coverage starting with Will Ripley live for us from Brooklyn.

What do we know at this hour, Will?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We know that the federal allegations laid out in these newly-unsealed documents paint a picture of a plan that came disturbingly close to coming to fruition. The 19- year-old who lived in this building behind me was actually at JFK Airport ready to get on a plane to take off, heading to ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COMMISSIONER WILLIAM BRATTON, NYPD: The initial actions were effectively to go to Syria.

RIPLEY (voice-over): This morning two men intent on waging war with ISIS, according to the FBI, are in custody in New York. A third accomplice, arrested in Florida. At least one of the alleged aspiring terrorists lived in this Brooklyn, New York, apartment complex. The building's superintendent says he didn't seem suspicious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They no talk too much, you know. Every time quiet.

RIPLEY: But federal prosecutors say 24-year-old Abdurasul Juraboev and his 19-year-old friend planned to fly from New York to Turkey and then cross into Syria to join ISIS. The team's attorney says the FBI is rushing to prosecute.

ADAM PERLMUTTER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is all information that is delivered to the FBI from a confidential informant that the government says in their own complaint they can't rely on the credibility of.

RIPLEY: The third Brooklyn man, a 30-year-old business owner from Uzbekistan, allegedly funded some of the efforts. According to the FBI, the men had a chilling secondary plan if they were unable to reach Syria.

BRATTON: If they were not able to go, that they would seek to acquire weapons here, handguns and machine guns, and seek to attack, very specifically, police officers.

RIPLEY: According to court documents, Juraboev tried to make contact with the terror group in an online chat room last summer, saying, "To shoot Obama and then get shot ourselves, will it do? That will strike fear in the hearts of infidels." That alarming post brought FBI agents to his front door. Juraboev allegedly admitted he would harm President Barack Obama, but did not have the means to do so and said, if ISIS ordered him to, he would also plant a bomb on Coney Island, in New York City.

ISIS's online propaganda, a growing threat to the U.S. The State Department says they're combating around 90,000 tweets a day. This as the FBI says there are investigations into home-grown violent extremists in all 50 states.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY: We know that ISIS is using social media to recruit. But Chris, it is the digital footprint that these two suspects left. All three of them, actually, the Feds say helped lead them to them. Because they were doing a lot of their communications online.

If you were to ask people here in Brooklyn's Coney Island neighborhood, if these guys stood out, the answer, no. One of them worked just down the street at a restaurant. He actually texted his boss, saying he wasn't going to be at work this weekend. These were seemingly normal young men, Chris, who were impressionable and influenced by this ISIS propaganda. Really disturbing for a lot of people here.

CUOMO: And Will, one of the things you're very good at, the more you canvass that neighborhood there, there's a big Uzbek population there -- the more you'll see what they were concerned about and how much they want to stop this from coming within their own.

Let's bring in Republican senator from Wisconsin, Ron Johnson. He's the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. He's also on the Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, thank you for joining us, especially at such a pivotal juncture.

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R), WISCONSIN: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: When we're dealing with the funding for the Department of Homeland Security, there's no way to avoid it, these arrests in Brooklyn put a spotlight on it in a different way, especially with urgency.

Let's take a quick listen to what Bill Bratton, the New York police commissioner, the New York Police Department commissioner, had to say about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRATTON: With all that's going on in Washington at the moment, the debate about the withholding of funding for homeland security, this is not the time to engage in activities that would threaten our counterterrorism capabilities, such as have been exhibited in the movement on this case. And effectively to hold our counterterrorism agencies hostage to political machinations in D.C.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Do you agree, Senator, and will you make that known to your colleagues to put an end to this stalemate?

JOHNSON: No, I absolutely do agree. I've been wanting to fund -- to fund the Department of Homeland Security for quite some time. I think every Republican does want to fund the legitimate, the authorized activities of -- and the essential activities of the department.

We've been trying to get a bill on the floor of the Senate for a number of weeks. It's been sent to Democrats that have blocked even putting a bill on the floor for debate, try and find the compromise, try a d find the path forward.

Leader McConnell finally devised a path. And fortunately, I think, at a vote of 98-2, we'll take up the measure. It will would be nice if the Democrats would agree to a time agreement so we can get that vote taken as quickly as possible and send that over to the House.

But you know, I have to point out: It's President Obama that introduced immigration reform into the DHS funding. I mean, e's the one that really engaged in this debate. He poisoned the well, as Leader McConnell and Speaker Boehner warmed him he would do if he did this. And, you know, he could end this in a second. All he could do is -- why doesn't he defer his deferred action, and say, you know, let's recognize that a court of law has ruled his actions unlawful and just agree to defer that to at least the end of the fiscal year? This thing would be solved immediately.

Don't think he's going to do that. Senate Republicans, we -- we want to fund the department.

CUOMO: Right.

JOHNSON: Every Republican does, and we're trying to devise a path forward. But it's been Democrats have been blocking it.

CUOMO: I understand your point, and let's take an even/if position here. Even if the president baited the Republicans into this, essentially, why did the Republicans who are in control now and want to show that they can govern, whatever that means from Congress. Why did you take the bait?

And when you say funding DHS, why don't you fund all of it? Not just the essential things. Because we don't know which pieces will be essential. You don't know what you need. If anything, you know those men and women say they don't have enough, let alone something to spare.

JOHNSON: But you know, Constitution -- the Constitution is pretty important, and President Obama repeatedly exceeds his constitutional authority. That's something the Congress has to take pretty seriously. And a lot of us do. You know, we took an oath of office to support and defend the Constitution, so that's a very serious issue.

President Obama has to admit that a federal judge now has ruled that his unilateral actions on deferred action were unlawful. He's put injunction. So you know, if President Obama wants do rise above this, if he's concerned about our homeland security, he could end this in a second by saying, "Let's -- I'm going to defer my action on immigration until after the end of the fiscal year." This would -- this issue would be resolved immediately. Don't think he's going to do that, which is why Senate

Republicans devised a path forward. We voted to get this bill on the floor. Finally -- Democrats finally stopped blocking it. Hopefully, we can get this passed. I'm calling on Harry Reid to let us vote on this as quickly as possible this morning and so it can be sent over to the House, and hopefully, the House will act accordingly.

CUOMO: All right. Senator, thank you very much. Obviously, there's a lot more urgency on this now based on these arrests in Brooklyn. People can call that alarmist, but we just had the FBI director says -- say he has cases in all 50 states of people being self-radicalized to go to ISIS.

JOHNSON: I want to fund the Department of Homeland Security. Every Republican does, President Obama is playing politics with it, not us.

CUOMO: All of it, though, Senator. That's the key. Thank you for joining us. We look forward to see how this moves forward, hopefully today.

JOHNSON: Have a good day.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. We want to get more analysis on our breaking news this morning. Let's bring in Haras Rafiq. He's the managing director of the Quilliam Foundation.

Thanks so much for being with us. Let's talk about what we have learned about Jihadi John. He is being identified by the BBC, by the "Washington Post" and by Reuters. Let's talk about the details that have come out about him.

Friends now that investigators have spoken to say that they believe he started to radicalize after a planned safari in Tanzania following his graduation from the university of Westminster. You believe he actually radicalized at university. Why?

HARAS RAFIQ, QUILLIAM FOUNDATION: I think that, if we look at what he -- what he actually did and what actually happened, intelligence agencies at Tanzania, Dar es Salaam, and the U.K. intelligence agencies at the time believe that he actually wasn't going on a safari. He was actually going to Somalia to join one of the terrorist groups out there.

Now they wouldn't have just done that without credible intelligence. And the university that he went to actually is known for being a bit of a hotbed for Islamist radicalization.

The other thing that we also need to realize is that one of the reports that's come out in the "Washington Post," they've actually used some quotes from a particular organization that claims to be a human rights campaigner.

CAMEROTA: Called CAGE (ph). RAFIQ: One of the things I'm -- absolutely, called CAGE (ph).

I'm quite disgusted at the way that they've actually tried to co-opt the victim mentality as an excuse almost to try to justify this person's radicalization.

CAMEROTA: Right, what do you mean? Because they're being sympathetic to him, CAGE is?

RAFIQ: No. No, no. What CAGE are basically saying is that he was radicalized by Tanzania authorities. He was radicalized by the U.K. authorities, because they monitored him. They were saying that the Kuwaiti government didn't want him there, because they suspected him for wanting to carry out terrorist activities.

And then they went on to say that the final straw was that a convicted terrorist, Aafia Siddiqi, when she was convicted, that he felt that he couldn't actually work within the democratic process or the processes around him, and he felt that if -- he was in a cage, and he had to go and join ISIL.

Well, at the end of the day, this is not Kuwait's fault. This is not Tanzania's fault. This is not the British, U.K. intelligence's fault. This is a guy who's been radicalized to an Islamist ideology and is carrying out heinous, murderous crimes; and he's a terrorist.

CAMEROTA: You brought up Somalia. It sounds like before he joined ISIS, he tried to join al Shabaab. What do we know about those efforts and his attempt at going to Somalia?

RAFIQ: Well, what happened was after he left university he was -- he was going allegedly under the guise of a safari trip to go and join al Shabaab. We know that he was prevented from doing so. And some of the other former captors of ISIL.

And we also know that he was prevented from doing so. And some of the other captors -- former captors of ISIL's actually have told individuals and the "Washington Post" that this particular guy was very, very fond of Somalia. For some reason, he has a very strong link to Somalia and to al-Shabaab. And this is something that's historic rather than ISIL.

Now it may well be that we treat al Shabaab as a separate organization, a separate entity. But ultimately, their goals and ideals and their ideals and their ultimate world view is the same.

The one thing I actually did want to say, Alisyn, also is that we've got to be very careful on what we do with this information now. We know that agencies have known for a while who Jihadi John is. And he's part of a group. And we've got to be careful that we don't turn him into more of a brand than he actually already has become.

I remember when Osama bin Laden was taken out. There was a lot of conversation amongst many governments, many authorities around the world to say, look, we've actually killed the head of the snake. But what we didn't do was kill the ideology. Jihadi John, or Emwazi, if it really is him -- and there's a lot

of strong evidence to suggest that it is him -- is just one aspect of the brand that is ISIL and is the brand, the ideology, that we really need to counter.

CAMEROTA: That is a great reminder and caution. Haras Rafiq, thanks so much for all the information.

Let's go to Michaela.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Alisyn.

ISIS hostage numbers rise sharply in Syria. An Assyrian human rights group say ISIS is now holding 262 Assyrians hostage. There are growing concerns about their fate, real fears they could be forced into sex slavery or viciously killed.

All of this unfolding as clashes intensify between Kurdish forces and ISIS in one town where many of those abductions happened.

CAMEROTA: Also breaking overnight, at least two people killed in a suicide attack outside the Iranian embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan. The Taliban claims responsibility for this. Police say the target, though, was actually a Turkish military convoy. Turkey's embassy is adjacent to Iran's. Iranian officials condemn the attack, and they say no members of their diplomatic staff were injured.

CUOMO: New and troubling information about U.S./Israeli relations, Netanyahu accusing the White House and other world powers of rolling over and allowing Iran to develop a nuclear bomb. Secretary of State John Kerry took issue with the prime minister, firing back, publicly questioning Netanyahu's judgment. The administration has no plans to meet with the Israeli prime minister just five days from now when he addresses lawmakers about the Iran threat.

CAMEROTA: We will continue to follow all of the breaking news this morning. Reports say the ISIS executioner known previously as Jihadi John has been identified. We'll tell you all that we're learning about him ahead.

CUOMO: And Chris Kyle's brother, Jeff, is here. He's going to speak out for the first time since a Texas jury delivered its verdict in the "American Sniper" trial. Does he think justice was served? And what would his brother want for Eddie Ray Routh?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STACIE MATTHEW, JUROR IN "AMERICAN SNIPER" TRIAL: We did not take our decision lightly.

HEIDI CARILLO (ph), JUROR IN "AMERICAN SNIPER" TRIAL: There were a lot of tears. MATTHEW: There were a lot of tears in that deliberation room.

We felt very -- we felt a lot of sympathy for Eddie. We felt sympathy for the victims.

CARILLO (ph): And the family.

MATTHEW: And for his family. We took it very seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: And they also thought he was not insane when he took the lives of Chris Kyle and Chad Littlefield. Now, that was Stacie Matthews and Heidi Carillo (ph), two of the 12 jurors on the trial of Eddie Ray Routh.

Tuesday Routh was found guilty of murdering former SEAL and "American Sniper" Chris Kyle and his friend, Chad Littlefield.

Now Chris and Chad's families have been at the trial every single day, as you might imagine, and listened to some pretty harrowing testimony. They are finally able now to have their say, because they were respecting the process.

Jeff Kyle is the brother of Chris Kyle. He's been to the show before. He's active in the efforts that his brother cared about.

And this is the first opportunity you're taking to discuss it and we appreciate that. What matters most here is I know how close you and your brother were. I know what was lost for your family. How are you dealing; how is his wife; how are the kids?

JEFF KYLE, CHRIS KYLE'S BROTHER: You know, we're grateful that it turned out the way it did. I don't know that it's fully set in yet, you know, that it's over. But it's -- there's a sense of relief, and I think it's the start of a close of a chapter for us in our lives.

CAMEROTA: You sat there for nine days, listening to painful, harrowing testimony. In fact, I think we have a photo of you in the courtroom. This is probably one of first many. I think that's your mom, comforting you.

KYLE: Yes.

CAMEROTA: What was the hardest part for you during the trial?

KYLE: Just listening to defense try to defend, you know, him and say that he was insane and that he had PTSD.

CAMEROTA: You didn't believe that?

KYLE: Not a bit. Not a bit.

CUOMO: You believe he didn't have those things or that they didn't matter in terms of what he did?

KYLE: Well, for one, I didn't believe that he was crazy. I didn't, and I knew that he didn't have PTSD.

CAMEROTA: How, how did you know that?

KYLE: Because he had never been in combat. He had never seen combat. So you have to have a traumatic incident to have posttraumatic stress.

CUOMO: You know the whole case that the defense put on there and, you know, what was confusing for at least me while we were covering it is your brother recognized this man as damaged and troubled and in need of help. He wasn't a clinician, but he saw the need. And how do you reconcile that your brother thought he needed help, but now he is not going to get any?

KYLE: I don't know that Chris actually knew that he needed help, besides what his mom had told Chris. You know, I think they'd had one or two phone conversations. And it's hard to pick up something, you know, about somebody in just a phone conversation without seeing them.

So I think that -- I think because he was approached by the guy's mom, that, you know, Chris would help any veteran. And then, you know, Chad, as well. So that's why you know Chris took Chad with him. And it wasn't anything about, you know, taking Chad with him because he was -- he felt unsafe. It was just, you know, that's who Chad was, too.

CAMEROTA: Were there times during the trial that you thought that Eddie Ray Routh would not be found guilty?

KYLE: Of course.

CAMEROTA: You worried about that?

KYLE: You never know. You know? I mean, you try to, sometimes you try to watch the jury and catch their reactions. But then, you know, you try not to, because you don't want to get a false sense.

But with the D.A., you know, the prosecution, there was -- they did such a bang-up job. You know, they batted 1,000 every day. The defense, they gave it a good fight. But, you know, justice came out on top.

CUOMO: It's interesting the point you make about what Chris Kyle, what your brother knew about him. Because you know, there was speculation as people were going through this, that well, if the guy was so sick, why did you take him to a gun range? You're saying if Chris knew that he was so sick, he wouldn't have taken him to a gun range?

KYLE: Exactly, exactly. There's no way that -- you know, and that text message keeps getting brought up.

CAMEROTA: Where your brother said, "This guy is nuts."

KYLE: Right, right. We use that term all the time. You know, my wife calls me nuts all the time. You know? Maybe I am. But it's, you know, if Chris...

CAMEROTA: You shouldn't read too much into it?

KYLE: Right. If Chris thought that he was an unstable individual, he would have never taken him to the range. They might have gone to Rough Creek, but they would have stopped at the lodge and just sat around and, you know, ate and visited. And he definitely would have never turned his back on him.

CAMEROTA: So Jeff, after nine days of you and your family sitting there in that courtroom, what was the moment like when you heard the jury say guilty?

KYLE: It was -- it was a relief. You could definitely feel some -- some pressure taken off of us and, you know, it was -- it was an emotional moment. Once they came and told us that the jury had reached a verdict, in that short period of time, we kind of...

CUOMO: Two and a half hours, including dinner.

KYLE: Right.

CUOMO: Which in Texas is no quick thing.

KYLE: We kind of figured that, you know, it was in our favor. So -- but it was -- it was a relief.

CUOMO: So what do you do? It matters so much to you, and I want you to talk -- you know, you're trying to find a way to carry your brother's legacy with you, which is your own work, as well, your own passion. And that belt buckle, I want you to describe.

Because there will be a reaction to this where people will say, "See, that PTS, there's no such thing. And, you know, we keep hearing about how these guys are messed up afterwards. They're just like anybody else."

Because that is not how you feel. You know, you want people to know about how damaging this process can be. So how do you -- what do you do with that?

KYLE: You know, PTS is a real thing. Definitely. But not every veteran that has -- just because they've been deployed -- has PTS.

You know, we don't put the "D" on it, because it's not a disorder. OK? It's just -- it's a situation. I mean, you're stressed.

But the people that have true, legitimate PTS, they -- they deal with it. You know, Chris dealt with it every day. They're not going around doing bad things, doing illegal things and hurting people. You deal with it. You learn to live with it. Just like anybody else that was in a traumatic car accident. You know, you live with it.

It may affect you behind closed doors, but out in public, you'll never know the people that have true legitimate PTS. And so that's why Chris started that foundation, Guardian for Heroes. And along with BeastMode for the Brave, you know, we're bringing awareness to that.

CUOMO: What is that, BeastMode for the Brave, other than a great name?

KYLE: It's -- it's a challenge. And you can do anything from a physical fitness activity to -- we've referenced bull riders. You know, bull riders can challenge somebody to come out and say, "Hey, ride this bull for eight seconds, ten seconds, you know, or ride as many bulls as you can in a day." And you know, challenge yourself, whether it be mentally or physically. Do something challenging that you don't do on a normal day-to-day basis and raise awareness, and then challenge somebody else or donate.

CAMEROTA: So what do you think happens now for your family? What do you think will happen with Chris's kids and his wife, and how does everybody move on?

KYLE: I think everybody just keeps, you know -- keeps their nose to the grindstone and pushes forward even harder than what we did before. You know, we don't have this holding us back now. and we can really get it out there and really push and, you know, help as many veterans and their families as we can.

CUOMO: We know that just because the trial is over, we know it's not over for your family.

KYLE: Right.

CUOMO: A loss like this takes a long time. He meant a lot to you and a lot of other people, and that's why the legacy is so important. And I know you're going to carry it with you. You know we're here to hear how we can help.

KYLE: Yes, sir.

CUOMO: All right. Jeff Kyle, thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for coming on.

KYLE: Thank you all very much.

CUOMO: Mick, over to you.

PEREIRA: Good to see him here.

Jihadi John unmasked. The man in the ISIS execution videos identified in reports this morning. Ahead, we're going to have much more on who he is and why his background should concern you.

(COMMERCIAL BREA)