Return to Transcripts main page
New Day
Jihadi John Identified; New Intelligence Report on ISIS's Ultimate Goal; Previewing "The Wonder List" with Bill Weir
Aired February 26, 2015 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go with the five things you need to know for your NEW DAY.
At number one, reports from Reuters via the BBC and "Washington Post" have identified the so-called "Jihadi John" from those ISIS beheading videos. His name is reportedly Mohammed Emwazi, a British national.
Three Brooklyn men arrested for allegedly trying to aid ISIS, two of them plotting to fly to Turkey to join the fight on the battlefield in Syria.
The heat is on House Republicans to pass a clean funding bill for Homeland Security. Senate Republicans have agreed to pass a bill without attaching a repeal of the president's executive action on immigration.
Meanwhile, a key vote in the Senate this morning on Loretta Lynch's nomination to be the new attorney general. Republican opposition is mounting, but she is expected to get enough support to ultimately be confirmed.
Pop star Madonna suffering a viral wardrobe malfunction at the Brit awards. Yikes. A back-up dancer was supposed to pull off her cape, but instead yanked the material girl down a flight of stairs. Madonna says her cape was tied too tight and assures everyone that she's just fine.
We always update those five things to know, so be sure to visit newdaycnn.com for the latest.
Chris.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we're going to have more on our breaking news, reports revealing who "Jihadi John" really is and how long U.K. authorities have known. From living a privileged life in London to joining ISIS, and what this new information tells us about ISIS' real aspirations.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: Breaking news this morning, reports the man known as "Jihadi John," he has been identified.
This as a new intelligence report conducted by the Institute for the Study of War may shed some light on ISIS' ultimate goal. And then we have to think about what will it take to stop them. Joining us, the research director at the Institute for the Study of War, Jessica Lewis McFate. She's a former Army intel officer who was on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan. Also joining us, former CIA counterterrorism official and CNN counterterrorism analyst Mr. Philip Mudd.
Mr. Mudd, I start with you. This news, do you believe it is news? We are told that they already knew the identity of this man for some time, U.K. authorities. Why would they keep it quiet? How do you think this helped them?
PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Boy, Chris, I'm struggling to figure this one out. If you're looking at this situation, it's not news to "Jihadi John." He knows he's been identified. It's not news to the British service -- security service. It's not news to his friends and family. I typically look at a situation like this and say, what advantage are you giving by an adversary by identifying him? The Met -- the Metropolitan Police are very good at what they do. I'm sure they have a rationale. One could be, they were trying to open up a line of communication they wanted to keep secret. But I don't think this is a huge revelation because the adversary already knew that he was identified.
CUOMO: Jessica, the -- this organization comes into play that I need you to help us out with called CAGE (ph). They come forward and they say, this guy is a victim, this "Jihadi John." He was harassed. He was routinely brought in. They made him into this, the British government. Why would this message be put out by this organization and do you put any stock in it?
JESSICA LEWIS MCFATE, RESEARCH DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF WAR: I don't put any stock in it. I think this is likely a gentleman who already wanted to conduct these kinds of activities and found ISIS to be exactly the haven for the kind of work that he wanted to do. And he wanted to be an executioner and he got to be an executioner. So he found ISIS. That's my interpretation of the kind of person we're dealing with.
CUOMO: So what is CAGE and what are they doing with this type of propaganda?
MCFATE: Well, from what you just described, I would suggest that that sounds shockingly pro- ISIS and I think that it is important to distinguish between the messages that are condoning ISIS and describing it as a haven for people who are persecuted and the messages that do describe the free world as for what it is.
CUOMO: Now, one of the questions that arise from this, Mr. Mudd, is that you knew who he was, you were following him and you let him go.
MUDD: Yes.
CUOMO: In Brooklyn, you were following these guys.
MUDD: Yes. CUOMO: One of them early on said to you, would love to put a bomb on Coney Island, would love to kill the president. When do you take a guy in these circumstances and what is the risk/reward benefit of leaving them out there? What's the calculation?
MUDD: This is really interesting. There's one fact people aren't focusing on that, to me, as a former practitioner, is fascinating. And that is, one of these guys is taken down at the airport. What that tells me is, somebody said, we'd like to continue the investigation but we can't because we can't allow the guy to travel.
Now, why do they want to continue the investigation after identified? Pretty simple. Once you look at the heart of the spider web, we've got three spiders here, you want to map out, where's the money, are there co-conspirators, are there people helping with travel and facilitating documents, for example? You want to insure that when you take down the heart of the spider web, you don't leave other bits out there that can recreate another plot. So that could take months and that's why they've been watching this since the summer of last year.
CUOMO: And they did wind up getting this guy that I'm calling a terror investor --
MUDD: Yes.
CUOMO: Who was from Brooklyn but down there in Jacksonville and seemed just happy enough from Florida, just fund these activities. So that takes us to your report, Jessica. You co-authored this report about what ISIS really wants, and that is the question of the day. Is it just about the lavant (ph), whatever that area means? Is it just about being a caliphate in the Middle East? What do you find?
MCFATE: No, I think ISIS wants to start a global war and that that is partially in defense of the caliphate, but it is partially about polarizing the world to be for or against ISIS, with the idea that the caliphate will ultimately be the more powerful so that we see something. And I love the description of the spider web that is centered geographically in Iraq and Syria, but it's intended to expand and is also intended to reach out to the west.
CUOMO: And you talk about three geographic rings. What are they and why are they relevant?
MCFATE: Well, these rings, again, are another way of saying the spider web, that there is an inner ring where ISIS is fighting a ground war. There is a nearer abroad ring, where ISIS is trying to export its military capabilities and set up satellites in the region. And then there is a far abroad where ISIS is conducting a number of connected attacks, be they support networks or inspired or even directly sent (ph) terrorist attacks and propaganda. So really the global war is this place where we're talking about attacks and people who are responding to ISIS in the U.S., in Brooklyn, et cetera.
CUOMO: You know, this matters because, you know, Philip, this metaphor of the White House doesn't know what to call these guys is just that, it's a metaphor because you start off with the president calling them a JV team. Now you've got the FBI director saying he's got a case in all 50 states of radicalization efforts here in the United States to go to ISIS. And it makes you wonder, do you guys know how to fight this enemy?
MUDD: Look, there's a couple aspects that you have to think about. There's a lot of conversation in the United States about how to fight the enemy ideologically, for example. My view is, you've got to have the people in the region fight the ideology because we don't have the credibility to do it. I heard one of the previous guests talk about the White House initiative on countering violent extremism. I am not a big believer. What do you want to get out from a White House pulpit and say extremism is bad in the Islamic world? So I think there's a piece of this that's got to be managed by the Islamic world, some militarily, some on the ideological front. And, meanwhile, we've got 72 fingers in the dike here, which is what the FBI director was -- I mean I want to know who the guy in North Dakota is. Can you imagine somebody in North Dakota saying, I want to join ISIS? That's incredible.
CUOMO: I can because everybody's on the Internet now and you keep getting varied messages that instigate from ISIS. This taking of Christians, you know, obviously it's going to be sensitive to the United States. But they're doing it for a reason. You know, I know they're against everybody, but they took now 250 plus Christians in just one place. It's making it seem like a holy war to a lot of people that adds another dimension.
Jessica McFate, thank you very much for being with us. Philip Mudd, as always.
MUDD: Thank you.
CUOMO: Alisyn.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Chris, forget your bucket list, check out the "wonder list." This is a new super cool CNN show. It's hosted by Bill Weir. And Bill has traveled to these far flung parts of the globe to show us things we've never seen before and we may never see again. Bill is here. He's going to join us, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL WEIR, CNN HOST (voice-over): There are three things you never want to see made -- sausage, television and a drink called cava on the island of Tanna. Now, coming in, I knew the Pacific Islanders' cocktail of choice is made from a tough jungle root banned in many western countries. What I didn't know is that on this particular island they don't grind it by hand.
(on camera): Don't watch this, America.
(EDN VIDEO CLIP)
PEREIRA: That is CNN's Bill Weir making and then drinking cava, an intoxicating drink consumed in Vanuatu. The mind-numbing cocktail is just one of the many surprising, challenging and enriching things that Bill takes on in the first season of his new CNN show, "THE WONDER LIST".
Bill Weir --
CUOMO: Good morning.
PEREIRA: -- joins us this morning. Bill, I had the hardest time getting through. I watched the episode. I had a hard time getting through that because I'm squeamish, I'm a germophobe, and I don't like swapping spit with people I don't know.
WEIR: You didn't see what happened next. They took that goop off of the banana leave, they put it in an old flour sack, they put rainwater in it and made this drink.
CAMEROTA: And you just made some for us. It looks so appetizing.
WEIR: This is the powdered version, Here's the thing, they tried to ban this stuff a few years ago.
CUOMO: Because?
WEIR: It's a mild intoxicant. It's like a full body novocaine. And violence soared. The jails filled up. Then they brought it back and everybody chilled out. The prime minister said this could solve the Middle East crisis if people drank this.
So I brought some for you guys. I won't gargle it first.
CUOMO: Full body novocaine.
WEIR: First you'll start to lose feeling in your lips. And then it goes down from there. Usually women aren't allowed at the cava ceremony.
PEREIRA: Oh, what a privilege.
CUOMO: Well, herem they should both go first.
(LAUGHTER)
CAMEROTA: Now, has this been mashed up by other people's mouths?
WEIR: No. No. This is, you know, done the --
PEREIRA: Phew.
WEIR: -- FDA approved way. I think it's --
PEREIRA: Then we'll try it. But it won't give you a mild buzz?
CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. It's even worse than it looks.
(LAUGHTER) CUOMO: Please.
CAMEROTA: It's worse than it looks.
PEREIRA: And you promise that nobody else -- I'm already starting to tear up -- that nobody else masticated this, right?
WEIR: No. I promise.
(CROSSTALK)
WEIR: That's a starter one. But this brings us together.
CUOMO: Mm, this is very good.
(LAUGHTER)
PERIERA: No, you better drink that.
CAMEROTA: Are we about to see God?
CUOMO: It's the lipstick (INAUDIBLE).
WEIR: Ride the green snake, baby.
PEREIRA: Let's talk about the show because this is a fascinating, fascinating voyage, a series of them. You head to five continents in this season. But you wanted to go to places that are on the brink.
WEIR: I did.
PEREIRA: Why?
WEIR: You know, I started with grand questions. I started with -- who's going to be the last person to see a wild tiger? Who's the last person to climb an alpine glacier? Or be baptized in the Jordan River? These places are changing in dramatic ways, and for the first episode I wondered -- I wonder if there's still a Hawaii without hotels out there. You know, a Bali or Bahamas without burger joints. And I found this little country. Fans of the show "Survivor" might know the name but I didn't really know anything about it. But it's 83 different islands where some tribes can't wait until the four seasons come so they can all have jobs. Because they have cell phones, they've seen the Internet, they know how we live, they want a slice. But over here, on this island you have people who live like it's 1,000 B.C. out in the jungle.
PEREIRA: By choice.
WEIR: By choice. They've seen the big city. Some of the chiefs have been to London and Manhattan. They've been to this island. They like their island much more.
I went to this amazing place out in the middle of nowhere where the fish is so abundant, and the fruit and the vegetables. They have everything they could ever want. And I got there and cell phone signal was better than Manhattan.
CUOMO: Really?
WEIR: Yes. And the world is getting so small and changing so fast around these folks, and I'm trying to talk to this guy who wants to be an actor. He wants to open a bed and breakfast. He wants people to come. I'm trying to say, look, man, be careful what you wish for. A bunch of people coming and demanding a colder beer or more channels on the TV is going to change your life. So be careful. But you know, some want it. Some don't. It's a really fascinating study into our priorities, our values.
CAMEROTA: First, is your mouth numb?
CUOMO: Yes, it is.
(LAUGHTER)
CUOMO: Tell us about how your daughter played into this. Because I thought that was such a great angle early on.
WEIR: Well, she's 11 years old, and in terms of nice round numbers, she will turn my age in the year 2050. So that's where the idea started, is will she live on a planet that still has things that we all agree are precious, that has a Galapagos Island that's still the sort of Garden of Eden? That have islands in Greece where people live to be 100 at a rate far higher than the rest of us in the west? But they're getting Facebook and junk food, so some are worried that that lifestyle may go away.
So it's really sort of -- we went out and I hired this -- I found this amazing filmmaker out of London, a guy named Phillip Bloom. Because I wanted to create these sort of time capsules. Savor what we have, the best parts of the planet while we have them, but also examine these changes through the eyes of the people who know these places best.
PEREIRA: And then also look at the fact that, while we can, should we? The idea of changing. There's things that are really beautiful about the untouched paradise, but then again as you mention, and I won't give it away, you know, not -- there's not a great deal of education, women's rights are a little different. So it's a two-edged sword, is it not?
WEIR: Totally. And that's what I hope the series plants the seeds in people's minds, that a bunch of our choices, individual choices, add up to big, massive global changes. And sometimes things are gone before you know it.
PEREIRA: Well, listen, give these two another round of the cava while I tell people--
CAMEROTA: I can't feel my tongue. I really can't.
PEREIRA: If you like to wonder like I do, if you love to travel, if you have a desire to travel, I promise you you will not be disappointed. Check out "THE WONDER LIST". It premiers this Sunday 10:00 p.m. on CNN. It is a beautiful voyage and a beautiful picture of our globe. Thank you for doing this, Bill.
WEIR: Thank you, my friends. Great to be back with you.
CAMEROTA: Great stuff. Can't wait to see all of them.
PEREIRA: And cava? Not sure.
CAMEROTA: When does this wear off?
WEIR: Uh, Tuesday.
(LAUGHTER)
PEREIRA: I love it. I love it.
CUOMO: (INAUDIBLE) earlier than that.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: So we have a family already down on their luck. They get scammed. Bad stuff. So how does it become the Good Stuff? What their community does about it. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: Time for the Good Stuff. This one starts with the bad stuff. A couple with health problems, fixed incomes, scraping by. They saved to buy a used van so they could see their family. They find the perfect one on Craigslist. The guy seems legit. Has a title. That seems legit, but --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RAKOWSKI, RIPPED OFF ON CRAIGSLIST PURCHASE: This man was so good with that title and everything else. I don't want nobody else to get screwed the way I did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Now he's upset and he was desperate. He has all these tanks and things that he needs. That's why they needed a mini van. But it turns out the van was stolen. They're out the money and the car. But rather than cry about it, Mark, the man you just saw, he decides to go to the public to help others avoid a similar fate, as he said. The story gets the attention of a car dealer, and the dealer hooks them up with a brand new 2007 van, completely for free.
CAMEROTA: That's great.
PEREIRA: How about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAKOWSKI: Just when you've given up and you think there ain't no good left, there is. You just don't see it. You don't see it every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PEREIRA: Oh, that's beautiful.
CAMEROTA: That's beautiful.
PEREIRA: Well done.
CUOMO: He did the right thing, the -- they gave him a good Chrysler there so he can help himself. But it shows that the community often steps up when others do the wrong thing, or do nothing. Not this time though. Thanks to him.
CAMEROTA: So nice.
Time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello. Hey Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR, "NEWSROOM": All right, have a great day. Thanks so much.
"NEWSROOM" starts now.
